Best combat combo
DeistMutts
lot of the problems i had..
Trap/Undead Persistence/Molotov Cocktail mixed with some rolling with
the punches and lucky blows.
My experience with that deck so far:
At least 1VP each time I played it (except two times because the guys
knew this deck and just tried to stop everything I build from the
beginning), gotten at least 10 table wins, and scared the shit out of
ppl each time. I've burned ICs/Justicars, a war ghoul/a call of great
beast (nasty, lost 3 weenie ones but worth killing the ghoul), plenty
of 8+ caps and nothing they can do about it. I've even made several
preys gave up the game after 2nd/3rd table round and went all out on
me instead of focusing on getting VPs. I believe this combo is the
most lethal of all, and only a few cards can help, like withering,
ambrosius, etc. I'm very glad Molotov Cocktail came out.. you
should've seen how wide my eyes were when i first saw that common card
and my mind was just filled with excruciating joy (happy happy joy
joy! happy happy joy!)..
What combat combo you find more lethal than this? Let's talk :)
---jAMES---
XZealot
Fury,Wolf Claws, Decapatate.
Goodbye weenie For
--
Comments Welcome,
Norman S. Brown, Jr
XZealot
Archon of the Swamp
skippy
"DeistMutts" <psydu...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a3baa2e3.04040...@posting.google.com...
> Well, for me, it was the day when Anarch expansion came out, solved a
> lot of the problems i had..
[snip]
Chill of Oblivion, Ex Nihlo, Contagion, 30xPsyche
you're screwed eventually
oscar
Halcyan 2
>Fury,Wolf Claws, Decapatate.
Most of it is ineffective against UP/Trap. Wolf Claws is good after a few
rounds when they're wounded. And if you are acting, Decapitate trumps UP. But
the rest don't work too well.
Halcyan 2
Halcyan 2
>the punches and lucky blows.
Molotov is a great card, but it's not all that. I pack a few in my UP/Trap deck
but more often than not, I'd rather Graverob instead. (I go with dom/for
instead of just weenie for).
Halcyan 2
skippy
"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040406181806...@mb-m15.aol.com...
Uh that's an agg punch for 5 unpreventable by fortitude. plus 1 normal for
weather control.
skin of night and flesh of marble put a damper on this combo
oscar
Colin McGuigan
> Most of it is ineffective against UP/Trap. Wolf Claws is good after a few
> rounds when they're wounded. And if you are acting, Decapitate trumps UP. But
> the rest don't work too well.
How does Wolf Claws help against UP? Doesn't UP still keep them from
going to torpor, even if they take aggravated damage?
--Colin McGuigan
XZealot
"Colin McGuigan" <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message
news:55-dnQRYsNN...@speakeasy.net...
If you are acting you can play Decapitatatatate befor they play UP
Snapcase
says...
> How does Wolf Claws help against UP? Doesn't UP still keep them from
> going to torpor, even if they take aggravated damage?
Yes, but wounded vampires have to burn a blood for each agg damage they
take or burn. A vampire under the umbrella of UP is still considered
"wounded". They're just not headed for torpor just yet. So a vampire
under UP with 0 blood taking 1 agg from a Wolf Claws burns (barring
damage prevention).
--
-Snapcase
Colin McGuigan
> Yes, but wounded vampires have to burn a blood for each agg damage they
> take or burn. A vampire under the umbrella of UP is still considered
> "wounded". They're just not headed for torpor just yet. So a vampire
> under UP with 0 blood taking 1 agg from a Wolf Claws burns (barring
> damage prevention).
Aaaaah. This is new information for me. Thanks.
--Colin McGuigan
Legendre
Stutter Step + Bone Spur
and
Weather Control + Skin of Night + Dawn-Oped Bum's Rush.
-Legendre
Dr. Enrique Monta?o
again, freak drive,etc...
try it with icnazio giovanni.
Which is your crypt for your combo?
Enrique
Chris Shorb
combo would come up much more regularly than this one that you are mentioning.
But best is subjective of course, and thus if you had the "best" hand/draw,
then I would say your combo wins Norm.
best -
chris
XZealot wrote:
--
chris shorb
prince of torrance, where the 5th tradition rules.
AL
> What combat combo you find more lethal than this? Let's talk :)
>
>
>
> ---jAMES---
Not exactly more lethal, but it keeps people guessing all the time.
Black hand gangsters (with inferior Potence) tooled up with
Saturday-Night Special and a Corporal Reservoir or 2. A few Dragon's
Breath Rounds and Disarms sprinkled in. Nasty, eats little space and
is very easy to pull off.
I presented this thought because I think that the most lethal combat
combos are those that do not require much setup, as they can be
repeated easily. Other examples: Fatima + Assault Rifle + Psyche! and
Tariq + Bow/Ring + Amaranth.
-Antero
Janne Hägglund
> Well, for me, it was the day when Anarch expansion came out, solved a
> lot of the problems i had..
>
> Trap/Undead Persistence/Molotov Cocktail mixed with some rolling with
> the punches and lucky blows.
Yes, it's a great combo. But CEL combat will eviscerate your deck.
Bruce Lee will dodge your Molotov ("Hoo!"), additional strike you to torpor
("Yayayayaya!") and press to end ("Iaa!").
The camera pans for a close-up of the villain's expression, as he realizes
Bruce Lee has fled his inescapeable death trap, and the flames are getting
closer... ("NOOOO!")
My favorite meta-combat-combo: Sideslip, Pursuit and Psyche!, with a few
Blurs and Flashes. Use with +strength, weapons, whatever. Not "the most
brutal combo ever", but extremely adaptable against your opponent's combat
tactics. (End credits start rolling, as Bruce Lee walks away from the
smoking ruins of the villain's stronghold.)
--
hg@ "If you can't offend part of your audience,
iki.fi there is no point in being an artist at all." -Hakim Bey
noodleboy
DotB, Grapple, Blood Rage, Claws, Decap/Amaranth.
Only a Skin of Night or Thoughts Betrayed with Damage Prevention will save you.
noods
hawk_the_demon
> Weather Control + Skin of Night + Dawn-Oped Bum's Rush.
the dawn op only kicks in if the bum's rush is blocked.
salem
scrawled:
just cheking in to make sure you know dawn op only kicks in if you are
blocked....
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
Smiling Tom
> What combat combo you find more lethal than this? Let's talk :)
>
>
>
> ---jAMES---
(in parenthesis non-necessary but eventually usefull additional cards)
Option A: Samantha (with Path and/or eye of hazimel)
Flesh of Marble+weather control+(mythic form), (drawing out the beast),
(Shadow feint)+blood fury(or stutter step if opposing vamp doesn't play
fortitude prevention cards)+amaranth
Option B: Etrius (with a PRO skill card equiped with Ankara Citadel and/or
Eye of Hazimel for better performance)
(Shadow of the Wolf)+(mythic form)+flesh of marble+weather control+thoughts
betrayed+blood fury, (additional, blood fury) +claws
Option C: Any combat oriented vamp with 7 raptors (Cock Robin is a crack
achieving this)
Now, talking about reliable combat (these obviously are examples of purely
theorical decks, combat combos with such a number of cards aren't efficient
enough or a lot of time to build up your monster:
- Cailean+lots of long range strikes+carrion crows
- Muaziz/tariq with rowan ring (and ghoul retainer?) and lots of amaranth.
- Muaziz +eye +inmortal+ blood fury+disarm+amaranth
Smiling Tom
cure
you have in your crypte vaclav, ivan or tereza.
the best combos is :
-illusion
-drawing
-immortal
-burning wraith
-amaranth
or
-illusion
-fake out
-mayaparisatya
-amaranth
the first one against combat ends and dodge and the second one against prevent....
average of 3 vamp burn per table and 6 send to torpor with the deck I have
but I still miss some cards to make it a vp winner.
Jean-Philippe
> the punches and lucky blows.
...Strike: combat ends...
JPh
Daneel
Needs Potence, but for the second discipline can go with Fortitude,
Celerity or Obtenebration.
Really cool, using Potence to burn a vampire, when all you did was hit
for 1... ;)
Also, a pretty safe way to play Disarm (and not lose it). It isn't
staying there too long...
Bye,
Daneel
Emmit Svenson
> Trap/Undead Persistence/Molotov Cocktail mixed with some rolling with
> the punches and lucky blows.
I play Majesty.
Use DOM/for vamps and you can add Thoughts Betrayed to your combo.
My deadly Dream Combo: An Ex Nihilio'd, Elementally Stoic Baron with a
Dominate skill card rushes you and plays Trap, Thoughts Betrayed and
superior Weather Control from an Inscription. His strike is the
Withering. He then eats you with Amaranth.
Only ways out of that one I can think of are Illusions of the Kindred
and Alpha Glint.
Jeroen
> psydu...@hotmail.com (DeistMutts) writes:
>
> > Well, for me, it was the day when Anarch expansion came out, solved a
> > lot of the problems i had..
> >
> > Trap/Undead Persistence/Molotov Cocktail mixed with some rolling with
> > the punches and lucky blows.
Pulled Fangs? If you don't burn 'm, at least he will stay in torpor
longer. And instead of the lucky blows: weighted Walking Stick.
>
>
> Yes, it's a great combo. But CEL combat will eviscerate your deck.
>
> Bruce Lee will dodge your Molotov ("Hoo!"),
and still go to torpor empty, unless you can keep on
dodging/preventing with sideslip, BUT that only prolongs the Trap and
the UP.
>additional strike you to torpor
> ("Yayayayaya!")
How exactly will he do that with UP in effect?
> and press to end ("Iaa!").
this might work :-) But you need at least 3 presses: there are 2
presses to continue. And the weenie for deck probably also packs
presses and Mob Connections.
IMO the best use of Molotov Cocktail is that it's a card you play. It
prolongs the trap. OK, possibly burning vamps is a nice benefit. :p
Jeroen
> > Trap/Undead Persistence/Molotov Cocktail mixed with some rolling with
> > the punches and lucky blows.
>
> ...Strike: combat ends...
>
weenies will take your s:ce-er out of the game.
alternativly, play with DOM FOR and us Denial of Aphrodite's Favor.
Granted, only helps against presence s:ce....
J
Jeroen
Well, not exactly very easy to make deck out of (because of limited
vamp choice)
Rebekka, Chantry Elder of Munich
- Add Ankara citadel and Eye of Hazimel
- rush
- (free) thoughts betrayed
- (free) Majesty (BTW, for this combo the CE text of majesty is
actually better than the old one)
- Telepathic Tracking
- blood to water + majesty
when the opposing vamp is empty: either strike for one, Walk of Flames
or to remain with the theme: Catatonic Fear.
Obviously dies to IG.
XZealot
"Jeroen" <joen...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5f0d2397.04040...@posting.google.com...
> psydu...@hotmail.com (DeistMutts) wrote in message
news:<a3baa2e3.04040...@posting.google.com>...
> > > What combat combo you find more lethal than this? Let's talk :)
>
> Well, not exactly very easy to make deck out of (because of limited
> vamp choice)
>
> Rebekka, Chantry Elder of Munich
> - Add Ankara citadel and Eye of Hazimel
> - rush
> - (free) thoughts betrayed
> - (free) Majesty (BTW, for this combo the CE text of majesty is
> actually better than the old one)
> - Telepathic Tracking
> - blood to water + majesty
Rebekka doesn't have dominate
John Flournoy
> > What combat combo you find more lethal than this? Let's talk :)
>
> DotB, Grapple, Blood Rage, Claws, Decap/Amaranth.
>
> Only a Skin of Night or Thoughts Betrayed with Damage Prevention will save you.
Only that - or even a moderate amount of non-fortitude damage
prevention. For instance, Apparitions or Corporal Reserviors or
Resplendent Protectors etc etc etc. Heck, against a 1-strength vampire
using that combo you list, a single Apparition keeps him out of torpor
(unless he's already empty.) And since he's actually doing more damage
to you than you are to him... you could get disarmed right back!
> noods
-John Flournoy
Raille
"noodleboy" <nood...@iprimus.net.au> wrote in message
news:e72ec49.04040...@posting.google.com...
Don't forget Ashes to Ashes.
Raille
Noal McDonald
> > What combat combo you find more lethal than this? Let's talk :)
>
> DotB, Grapple, Blood Rage, Claws, Decap/Amaranth.
And which vampire with ani/pot/tha/pro are you going to find to play this?
You're better off with just using THA/POT to pull off
Torn Signpost,IG, Blood Rage, Disarm
Regards,
Noal
Jeroen Rombouts
"XZealot" <nbr...@rapidretailsolutions.com> schreef in bericht
news:c512ik$2madnn$1...@ID-224942.news.uni-berlin.de...
thing as skill cards :-) I left them out of the description because I
thought it was obvious (sounds better than: I forgot)
J
John Flournoy
Well, any form of maneuver will evade the Withering strike and let you
press to end with the card of your choice. Gemini's Mirror(sup) has a
50-50 chance of letting you avoid the Withering strike as well.
Even if you can't avoid the Withering, any of the following will still
let you press to end the Trap and thus the combat: a Hawg, Police
Department, Talbot's Chainsaw, a pre-strike IG played back at you,
Boxed-In, Black Metamorphosis, Bloodform, Chameleon's Colors (inf),
Flash (sup), Dissolution (sup), Fear of the Void Below (either dai
level), Highway Haven RV, Masque of Judas (inf/inf), Open Grate, Rigor
Mortis (either thn), Shadow of the Beast (sup), Shadow of the Wolf
(sup), Strength of the Bear (sup), Typhonic Beast (sup/sup), or Vitae
Block (otf). Did I forget any? :P
Assuming the minion isn't one that gets a press via his own card text,
and there's a lot of those, or isn't stealthing or intercepting the
action with a 'and get a press' card like Eyes of the Night(sup) or
Mind Tricks (sup) or untapping and blocking with a superior Rat's
Warning.
Of course, if you add Drawing out the Beast to your combo, _then_ it's
hard to get out of. This will also prevent you from having Shackles of
Enkidu ruin your fun.
Minions who can inherently strike: dodge (or have something like the
Treasured Samadji) or have been blocked after using Shroud of Absence
or blocked using Internal Recursion can get out of it to different
extents, too.
(And Illusions of the Kindred isn't really valid, since you're never
effectively in the combat to begin with, I'd say - same holds true for
Conscripted Statue or Blood Brother Ambush and Siren's Lure.)
-John Flournoy
-feeling more completist than usual
Janne Hägglund
> >additional strike you to torpor
> > ("Yayayayaya!")
>
> How exactly will he do that with UP in effect?
Sorry, wrong order. Additional strikes are used in the first round, to make
the opponed torpor-bound and undeadly(?) presistent, before taking major
damage yourself.
> > and press to end ("Iaa!").
>
> this might work :-) But you need at least 3 presses: there are 2
> presses to continue.
The next round there is only one press, from the trap. And he has to equip
the Molotov, which is one dodge you do not have to use.
And what kind of a celerity god are you, if you can't generate two presses?
:-) One of the points of the Bruce Lee deck is total combat control. It was
designed spesifically to beat other combat decks - including Janne Lönnqvist's
effective and evil Trap/UP deck. So I know what I'm talking about. :-)
Oscar Garza
"John Flournoy" <flou...@rcn.com> wrote in message
news:57327a82.0404...@posting.google.com...
Deny (inf)
oscar
Fredrik Appelberg
> Well, for me, it was the day when Anarch expansion came out, solved a
> lot of the problems i had..
>
> the punches and lucky blows.
[ Snip! ]
> What combat combo you find more lethal than this? Let's talk :)
While I agree that Trap/UP is generally pretty fun to play, as it tends
to mess up other dedicated combat decks, it is far from an optimal
combat combo:
- Song of Serenity, Typhonic Beast and even Skin of the Adder owns you.
- Disarm owns you (yes, you get -1 strength permanently, as your
fortitude weenies are not likely to be able to remove the Disarm).
- S:CE owns you big time. Especially since your opponent waits and plays
it the round after you play your UP. '
- Celerity combat will dodge your Molotovs and press to end against your
Traps.
- Fame and Tension In The Ranks owns you if you were counting on going
to torpor a lot.
All of these strategies are pretty common (well, maybe not Skin of the
Adder), and Trap/UP/Molotov has no way of dealing with any of them, alas.
As for the best combat combo, I'd say Burst of Sunlight + Rotschreck for
reactive combat. Unless your opponent has some way of preventing you
from playing strike cards (that's IG or Thoughts Betrayed) he's very
likely to end up in torpor. Cost to you: two cards, zero blood.
Cheers,
-- Fredrik
Fredrik Appelberg
> joen...@hotmail.com (Jeroen) writes:
>>this might work :-) But you need at least 3 presses: there are 2
>>presses to continue.
>
>
> The next round there is only one press, from the trap. And he has to equip
> the Molotov, which is one dodge you do not have to use.
Traps are stackable; when I play my Trap/UP deck I tend to play two or
three Traps if I know that my opponent has presses. Each of those will
provide a press to continue combat...
Sometimes you even have to keep playing Traps in the hope that you will
cycle into that precious UP... :)
Cheers,
-- Fredrik
spinney99
> lot of the problems i had..
>
> Trap/Undead Persistence/Molotov Cocktail mixed with some rolling with
> the punches and lucky blows.
>
snip cool stuff
(happy happy joy
> joy! happy happy joy!)..
>
>
> What combat combo you find more lethal than this? Let's talk :)
> ---jAMES---
not necessarily any More lethal, but...
nobody loves Watenda??
watenda hiddenlurker-disguisedw-ivorybow is sex-on-wheels, especially
since he can cover his malk buddies or that ventrue crew or really
anybody. cheap, to the point, and if you only have 1 skin of steel at
the time for prevent, you' in to'por! graverob or diablerize
w/basil,etc to your heart's desire. amaranth is certainly an option;
i'd trade watenda-bow for dead anson or erika or little tailor or
etc., and often as not, he's the malk justicar by then anyway..., or i
have a 2nd watenda uncontrolled.
yes, someone has to block someone. they do. (animalism, feel free to
shred this theory w/DOTB.)
my most dangerous combat deck is weenie for/pot starring jimmy dunn
and tom, POT and for weens(1-5caps,) skill card or so, many
havens/rushes, a dozen IG, hidden str (+other for,) disarms/pulled
fangs, signposts, 3xfame. fakeouts/sewerlids, dolls, hard intercept,
few slots taken w/strikes. i would comment that pulled fangs is
awesome. rufina or march can ruin a low-blood vamp's day and fast.
(tho it ain't what she used ta be, thankfully.) i suck v. obedience.
-gumbispin john
"you like danger? I'll show you something dangerous." my life w/
thrill kill kult
Jeroen
> joen...@hotmail.com (Jeroen) writes:
>
> > >additional strike you to torpor
> > > ("Yayayayaya!")
> >
> > How exactly will he do that with UP in effect?
>
> Sorry, wrong order. Additional strikes are used in the first round, to make
> the opponed torpor-bound and undeadly(?) presistent, before taking major
> damage yourself.
>
> > > and press to end ("Iaa!").
> >
> > this might work :-) But you need at least 3 presses: there are 2
> > presses to continue.
>
> The next round there is only one press, from the trap. And he has to equip
> the Molotov, which is one dodge you do not have to use.
only one press? only if the UP press is actually used. and trap can be
played multiple times. And there's always Indomitability.
>
> And what kind of a celerity god are you, if you can't generate two presses?
> :-) One of the points of the Bruce Lee deck is total combat control. It was
> designed spesifically to beat other combat decks - including Janne Lönnqvist's
> effective and evil Trap/UP deck. So I know what I'm talking about. :-)
If you can reliably out-press a trap/UP deck don't you jam on flashes
against 'normal' decks?
J
arden mcbathan
> (noodleboy) wrote:
> > > What combat combo you find more lethal than this? Let's talk :)
> >
> > DotB, Grapple, Blood Rage, Claws, Decap/Amaranth.
>
don't forget flesh of marble
> And which vampire with ani/pot/tha/pro are you going to find to play this?
Darius
zayyat
samantha
with hand of conrad or the eye?
>
> You're better off with just using THA/POT to pull off
> Torn Signpost,IG, Blood Rage, Disarm
is foiled by maneuvers and additionals
>
> Regards,
> Noal
Timlagor
> Well, for me, it was the day when Anarch expansion came out, solved a
> lot of the problems i had..
>
> Trap/Undead Persistence/Molotov Cocktail mixed with some rolling with
> the punches and lucky blows.
>
>
> At least 1VP each time I played it (except two times because the guys
> knew this deck and just tried to stop everything I build from the
> beginning), gotten at least 10 table wins, and scared the shit out of
> ppl each time. I've burned ICs/Justicars, a war ghoul/a call of great
> beast (nasty, lost 3 weenie ones but worth killing the ghoul), plenty
> of 8+ caps and nothing they can do about it. I've even made several
> preys gave up the game after 2nd/3rd table round and went all out on
> me instead of focusing on getting VPs. I believe this combo is the
> most lethal of all, and only a few cards can help, like withering,
> ambrosius, etc. I'm very glad Molotov Cocktail came out.. you
> should've seen how wide my eyes were when i first saw that common card
> and my mind was just filled with excruciating joy (happy happy joy
> joy! happy happy joy!)..
You never met anyone with a press to end?
DeistMutts
and 8 traps and sometimes just use the UP at superior for the 2 point
prevention to restart trap press. The only time I have card flow
problem is when nobody blocks me.. but then thats when i put in
Bloodhunt, so i can actually cycle thru my combat cards ;)
But yeah, honestly, the best combo is when you have all the right
cards in your hand and nobody is doing cull of the herd on ya..
---jAMES/DeistMutt---
Chris Shorb <chr...@vtesinla.org> wrote in message news:<40738DAD...@vtesinla.org>...
> Kind of a cumbersome combo it seems. I would imagine that James' (Mutt's)
> combo would come up much more regularly than this one that you are mentioning.
>
> But best is subjective of course, and thus if you had the "best" hand/draw,
> then I would say your combo wins Norm.
>
> best -
>
> chris
Emmit Svenson
> > My deadly Dream Combo: An Ex Nihilio'd, Elementally Stoic Baron with a
> > Dominate skill card rushes you and plays Trap, Thoughts Betrayed and
> > superior Weather Control from an Inscription. His strike is the
> Well, any form of maneuver will evade the Withering strike and let you
> press to end with the card of your choice. Gemini's Mirror(sup) has a
> 50-50 chance of letting you avoid the Withering strike as well.
Uh, okay. So the Baron has maneuvers too. This is the Dream Combo. He
has everything.
> Even if you can't avoid the Withering, any of the following will still
> let you press to end the Trap and thus the combat: a Hawg, Police
> Department, Talbot's Chainsaw, a pre-strike IG played back at you,
> Boxed-In, Black Metamorphosis, Bloodform, Chameleon's Colors (inf),
> Flash (sup), Dissolution (sup), Fear of the Void Below (either dai
> level), Highway Haven RV, Masque of Judas (inf/inf), Open Grate, Rigor
> Mortis (either thn), Shadow of the Beast (sup), Shadow of the Wolf
> (sup), Strength of the Bear (sup), Typhonic Beast (sup/sup), or Vitae
> Block (otf). Did I forget any? :P
Expect some cross-table rushes next time we play. :)
> Assuming the minion isn't one that gets a press via his own card text,
> and there's a lot of those, or isn't stealthing or intercepting the
> action with a 'and get a press' card like Eyes of the Night(sup) or
> Mind Tricks (sup) or untapping and blocking with a superior Rat's
> Warning.
And assuming the Baron doesn't play EIGHTEEN TRAPS! BWAH HA HA!
> Of course, if you add Drawing out the Beast to your combo, _then_ it's
> hard to get out of. This will also prevent you from having Shackles of
> Enkidu ruin your fun.
Yeah, I'll have to watch out for those Shackles.
> Minions who can inherently strike: dodge (or have something like the
> Treasured Samadji) or have been blocked after using Shroud of Absence
> or blocked using Internal Recursion can get out of it to different
> extents, too.
Not after the Thoughts Betrayed.
> -John Flournoy
> -feeling more completist than usual
Yeah...a complete JERK! :)
But I bet that given the combo above (An Ex Nihilio'd, Elementally
Stoic Baron with a Dominate skill card rushes you and plays Trap,
Thoughts Betrayed and superior Weather Control from an Inscription.
His strike is the Withering.) you can't think of a way to torporize or
burn the Baron in the resulting combat.
Emmit Svenson
Jeroen
> DeistMutts expounded:
> You never met anyone with a press to end?
See my post above. The Trap/UP deck can play multiple traps,
Indomitability and UP has a press too. Add Mob Connections and not a
lot of people will be able to press enough.
J
John Flournoy
Incorrect. Having failed to avoid the Withering in the resolve strike
step, you are unable to play any cards that require disciplines like
Deny (or an inferior Flash, or an inferior Mighty Grapple, etc.) in
the press step. If you look again, you'll note that the above list is
of cards that either give you a disciplineless press or give you a
press _before_ the choose strike step.
> oscar
-John Flournoy
John Flournoy
> Expect some cross-table rushes next time we play. :)
You left out the "...bitch!"
> > Of course, if you add Drawing out the Beast to your combo, _then_ it's
> > hard to get out of. This will also prevent you from having Shackles of
> > Enkidu ruin your fun.
>
> Yeah, I'll have to watch out for those Shackles.
Hey, we finally found a use for the Shackles!
> > Minions who can inherently strike: dodge (or have something like the
> > Treasured Samadji) or have been blocked after using Shroud of Absence
> > or blocked using Internal Recursion can get out of it to different
> > extents, too.
>
> Not after the Thoughts Betrayed.
Yes with the Thoughts Betrayed, actually. Shroud and Internal
Recursion are not strike cards; they are cards that grant the minion
the ability to make a cardless S:CE. In Shroud's case, that ability is
granted as an action modifier, before TB even has a chance to be
played. You're correct in a literal sense when you say 'not after the
TB' since Shroud can't be played once combat begins, but that isn't
what I said; I said minions that "have been blocked after using Shroud
of Absence". Such a minion could still S:CE despite Thoughts Betrayed,
just like TB does not stop a minion with a .44 from shooting his gun
or an anarch from using Improvised Tactics (pot) to make 2R strikes at
long if he can maneuver appropriately.
(It's arguable that Internal Recursion gets played before TB, since IR
is a reaction card played when a minion successfully blocks, instead
of a combat card playable once combat begins.)
> > -John Flournoy
> > -feeling more completist than usual
>
> Yeah...a complete JERK! :)
You know it!
> But I bet that given the combo above (An Ex Nihilio'd, Elementally
> Stoic Baron with a Dominate skill card rushes you and plays Trap,
> Thoughts Betrayed and superior Weather Control from an Inscription.
> His strike is the Withering.) you can't think of a way to torporize or
> burn the Baron in the resulting combat.
I'm sure I can, but I'll post that when I have more time.
-John Flournoy
John Flournoy
> Stoic Baron with a Dominate skill card rushes you and plays Trap,
> Thoughts Betrayed and superior Weather Control from an Inscription.
> His strike is the Withering.) you can't think of a way to torporize or
> burn the Baron in the resulting combat.
You lose the bet. Flamethrower or Ivory Bow or Sengir Dagger or any
agg-dealing weapon - or any card like Wolf Claws modifying your hand
strike to aggravated. Combine with Rotschreck. With or without
Amaranthing you after.
(Or the previously mentioned Shackles or Rowan Ring.)
-John Flournoy
salem
scrawled:
tsk tsk. you can't play amaranth after rotschrek. there's no longer a
combat, and amaranth is a combat card..
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)
Ira
> agg-dealing weapon - or any card like Wolf Claws modifying your hand
> strike to aggravated. Combine with Rotschreck. With or without
> Amaranthing you after.
I thought you couldn't Rotschreck + Amaranth, because the torpor
portion of the Rotschreck happens after combat is over and thus
Amaranth can't be played.
Ira
John Flournoy
"salem" <salem_ch...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:171c70hvboa2a86ng...@4ax.com...
> On 8 Apr 2004 12:56:50 -0700, flou...@rcn.com (John Flournoy)
> scrawled:
>
> >emmits...@hotmail.com (Emmit Svenson) wrote in message
news:<75bdf7ed.04040...@posting.google.com>...
> >> flou...@rcn.com (John Flournoy) wrote in message
news:<57327a82.0404...@posting.google.com>...
> >>
> >> But I bet that given the combo above (An Ex Nihilio'd, Elementally
> >> Stoic Baron with a Dominate skill card rushes you and plays Trap,
> >> Thoughts Betrayed and superior Weather Control from an Inscription.
> >> His strike is the Withering.) you can't think of a way to torporize or
> >> burn the Baron in the resulting combat.
> >
> >You lose the bet. Flamethrower or Ivory Bow or Sengir Dagger or any
> >agg-dealing weapon - or any card like Wolf Claws modifying your hand
> >strike to aggravated. Combine with Rotschreck. With or without
> >Amaranthing you after.
>
> tsk tsk. you can't play amaranth after rotschrek. there's no longer a
> combat, and amaranth is a combat card..
>
> salem
Bah! Stop bringing rules into the discussion! :P
-John
Magnus
> lot of the problems i had..
>
> the punches and lucky blows.
>
>
> At least 1VP each time I played it (except two times because the guys
> knew this deck and just tried to stop everything I build from the
> beginning), gotten at least 10 table wins, and scared the shit out of
> ppl each time. I've burned ICs/Justicars, a war ghoul/a call of great
> beast (nasty, lost 3 weenie ones but worth killing the ghoul), plenty
> of 8+ caps and nothing they can do about it. I've even made several
> preys gave up the game after 2nd/3rd table round and went all out on
> me instead of focusing on getting VPs. I believe this combo is the
> most lethal of all, and only a few cards can help, like withering,
> ambrosius, etc. I'm very glad Molotov Cocktail came out.. you
> should've seen how wide my eyes were when i first saw that common card
> and my mind was just filled with excruciating joy (happy happy joy
> joy! happy happy joy!)..
Could you post your decklist? I惴 interested in the details of the
deck. I惴 planning to build a dom/for deck ( threaten with high
bleeds, then either destroy the vampire or pass the bleed) , so I悲
like to see if this principle would be applicable to my deck idea, or
if there isnæ„’ enough space in the deck to accomodate all the
necessary cards.
Magnus
David Cherryholmes
John Flournoy wrote:
> You lose the bet. Flamethrower or Ivory Bow or Sengir Dagger or any
> agg-dealing weapon - or any card like Wolf Claws modifying your hand
> strike to aggravated. Combine with Rotschreck. With or without
> Amaranthing you after.
Here's a little different take on Baron Beats Your Ass, and one that has
an answer to the agg weapon problem:
http://bluedevilvtes.tripod.com/Evil_Dead.html
--
David Cherryholmes
david.che...@duke.edu
Andrea
> > Rebekka doesn't have dominate
> >
> >
> I know that :-) it's hardly nessecary for the combo and there is such a
> thing as skill cards :-) I left them out of the description because I
> thought it was obvious (sounds better than: I forgot)
>
> J
well if skill cards are allowed into best combos this one is absolutly
safe against almost everybody.
and kills a lot
cailean (the one and only superstar) with sup dominate and set range
to long
-thoughts betrayed (no strike cards)
-drawing out the beast (no weapon or equipment, nor presses to end)
-carrion crows/thrown sewer lid
-trap/thrown sewer lid
taste of vitae if needed
the only vampires who can damage you are: aurora van brande, goratrix,
anastas di zagreb, lazarus and those who have animalism (until you
play animal trainer -evil grin)
someone has already tried this combo extensively? i tried it twice and
it did fairly well,
or (but i haven't tried this)
muaziz and tariq
concealed wooden stake
lucky blow/depravity
skin of steel
amaranth
freak & repeat
Andrea
Jeroen Rombouts
"Andrea" <aea...@yahoo.it> schreef in bericht
news:f27fffb8.04041...@posting.google.com...
> > >
> > > Rebekka doesn't have dominate
> > >
> > >
> > I know that :-) it's hardly nessecary for the combo and there is such a
> > thing as skill cards :-) I left them out of the description because I
> > thought it was obvious (sounds better than: I forgot)
> >
> > J
>
> well if skill cards are allowed into best combos this one is absolutly
> safe against almost everybody.
> and kills a lot
> cailean (the one and only superstar) with sup dominate and set range
> to long
>
> -thoughts betrayed (no strike cards)
> -drawing out the beast (no weapon or equipment, nor presses to end)
> -carrion crows/thrown sewer lid
> -trap/thrown sewer lid
>
> taste of vitae if needed
>
> the only vampires who can damage you are: aurora van brande, goratrix,
> anastas di zagreb, lazarus and those who have animalism (until you
> play animal trainer -evil grin)
...and anyone with Sire's Index Finger or a Ghoul Retainer.
Andrea
> > safe against almost everybody.
> > and kills a lot
> > cailean (the one and only superstar) with sup dominate and set range
> > to long
> >
> > -thoughts betrayed (no strike cards)
> > -drawing out the beast (no weapon or equipment, nor presses to end)
> > -carrion crows/thrown sewer lid
> > -trap/thrown sewer lid
> >
> > taste of vitae if needed
> >
> > the only vampires who can damage you are: aurora van brande, goratrix,
> > anastas di zagreb, lazarus and those who have animalism (until you
> > play animal trainer -evil grin)
>
> ...and anyone with Sire's Index Finger or a Ghoul Retainer.
let's not be fools!
i've packed at least 3 or 4 canine horde and i've already dealed with
a cel obf deck relying on ghoul retainer. some of my vams went to
torpor (i'm speaking of 8/10 caps), but i got the GW. and more of his
minions went to torpor as well (sigh, only 5 caps)
Andrea
AL
> let's not be fools!
> i've packed at least 3 or 4 canine horde and i've already dealed with
> a cel obf deck relying on ghoul retainer. some of my vams went to
> torpor (i'm speaking of 8/10 caps), but i got the GW. and more of his
> minions went to torpor as well (sigh, only 5 caps)
>
> Andrea
...and then the Bats/Crows deck will be beaten by a Trap/UP deck.
Which uses even smaller guys than yours. Yes! That must be the
ultimate com...hmm...this seems familiar somehow...
-Antero
Jeroen
> >
> > ...and anyone with Sire's Index Finger or a Ghoul Retainer.
>
> let's not be fools!
> i've packed at least 3 or 4 canine horde and i've already dealed with
> a cel obf deck relying on ghoul retainer. some of my vams went to
> torpor (i'm speaking of 8/10 caps), but i got the GW. and more of his
> minions went to torpor as well (sigh, only 5 caps)
>
be dealt with in some way or another :-)
Magnus
> Well, for me, it was the day when Anarch expansion came out, solved a
> lot of the problems i had..
>
> Trap/Undead Persistence/Molotov Cocktail mixed with some rolling with
> the punches and lucky blows.
>
> My experience with that deck so far:
>
> At least 1VP each time I played it (except two times because the guys
> knew this deck and just tried to stop everything I build from the
> beginning), gotten at least 10 table wins, and scared the shit out of
> ppl each time. I've burned ICs/Justicars, a war ghoul/a call of great
> beast (nasty, lost 3 weenie ones but worth killing the ghoul), plenty
> of 8+ caps and nothing they can do about it. I've even made several
> preys gave up the game after 2nd/3rd table round and went all out on
> me instead of focusing on getting VPs. I believe this combo is the
> most lethal of all, and only a few cards can help, like withering,
> ambrosius, etc. I'm very glad Molotov Cocktail came out.. you
> should've seen how wide my eyes were when i first saw that common card
> and my mind was just filled with excruciating joy (happy happy joy
> joy! happy happy joy!)..
Ok, I clearly see how this combo stomps almost everything into the
ground, as soon as your vampire should go to torpor... but how do you
make *that* happen, on a regular basis?
Magnus
Andrea
definitely right then (that deck cel gun with ghoul retainers made me
sweat a lot).
only: why sire's index finger could be a problem? even if they don't
take the press damage from DotB, still they cannot maneuvre to close,
don't have the +1 strenght. they can just press to end, but have
already taken 2carrion + 3 sewerLid damage.
Ho, now i realized: they can use weapons
BtW i must admitt that i've reduced the number of canine horde to 2
just because i thought that with DotB i don't fear weapons.
luckily in my meta-game there are only few deck with sire's index
finger or ghoul retainer. i'll try more the cailean deck and i'll
report what happens
Andrea
Andrea
> Well, for me, it was the day when Anarch expansion came out, solved a
> lot of the problems i had..
>
>
in my playgroup one has started using the clan i think is the
stronger in combat.
maybe too much, now that Flesh of marble is common (1st hint he-he).
little ANI pro and some bigger using all the cards with ANI PRO for
Drawing out the beast
carrion crows
trap
flesh of marble
scorpion sting (optional)
bone spur (optional)
skin of night if needed
taste of vitae if needed
and as far as i've seen it flows like water
if he can equip wuth a dog pack nobody is safe:
you cannot maneuvre to long
you cannot dodge
you cannot press to end
you cannot end combat
you can prevent only so much damage (it's hard to survive 3 turns with
carrion crows and aggravated damages and damage you cannot prevent at
each press step)
you cannot deal more damage than 1 every round(!!!!!)
you can just entomb or coma the 5 cap minion (saying good bye to your
hannibal in the while)
pray for that Sire's index finger or Animal trainer or mask empathy
(and let's tell the truth: you don't pack more than 1 of these cards
in any deck, do you?)
i don't want to demonstrate that this is a fucking strongest combo
I want some hint on how to defeat it!
Andrea
DeistMutts
aggravated damage at first strike, king of the mountain, majesty..
etc, etc.. even better yet.. when you're knocked down completely,
don't bring anymore vampires out, just start telling the other players
they should gang up on him because he's too powerful (and point to
your unconscious no-blood vamps)... that will do the trick.. i did
that to one predator who played his ahrimanes deck which totally
anniliated my malkavian vote deck (two 8 caps totally demolished in
torpor with no blood). I started to work the table and got my ally AND
my prey to gang up on him while i just stand tall as a wall and let my
predator bleed me one or two each turn... guess what.. he got 1vp..
and that was the last he saw.. my prey won the table with 3 vps.
Sometimes ultimate combat combos you can't do nothing without, but all
combats have weakness... just that not many ppl uses many copies of
those cards to counter it.. (i.e. fast hands to steal weapons, etc.)
Work the table is best counter against a pure fighting deck... but I
still want to hear what others have to offer about combat combos.. cuz
it's just very cool to know what other combats are out there and what
you need to do to retool yours.. btw, thanks for everyone that posted
on this topic.. hope we keep this going on as the new expansion comes
out with probably more new combat cards...
aea...@yahoo.it (Andrea) wrote in message news:<f27fffb8.04041...@posting.google.com>...
Colin McGuigan
> I started to work the table and got my ally AND
> my prey to gang up on him while i just stand tall as a wall and let my
> predator bleed me one or two each turn... guess what.. he got 1vp..
> and that was the last he saw.. my prey won the table with 3 vps.
How, exactly, did that help you?
> Sometimes ultimate combat combos you can't do nothing without, but all
> combats have weakness... just that not many ppl uses many copies of
> those cards to counter it.. (i.e. fast hands to steal weapons, etc.)
> Work the table is best counter against a pure fighting deck...
Like in the example above?
--Colin McGuigan
HD
> psydu...@hotmail.com (DeistMutts) wrote...
(snip)
>
> i don't want to demonstrate that this is a fucking strongest combo
> I want some hint on how to defeat it!
>
> Andrea
"The best way to deal with your enemies is to make them irrelevant." *
How about something like Obedience? Or maybe intercept them followed
by aggravated damage and Rottschreck... Try to vote them off the
table (Banishment, PTO, etc.) Is there any way you can get someone
else to fight them? Try something like Bounty or Succubus Club and
offer pool for their destruction... Or you could steal all their
vampires and mess them up before giving them back (Mind Rape, Spirit
Marionette, Temptation)...
Some of the best responses to combat involve doing something besides
fighting. Not only does this frustrate the other player (they can't
play their deck - no card cycle), but it puts you in the driver's
seat.
Any else have other suggestions that don't involve combat???
Cheers,
Howard
* This quote is from some guy I heard at a college lecture recently.
I don't remember his name, but he had a lot of interesting things to
say.
AL
(about ANI/pro "monstrosity")
> i don't want to demonstrate that this is a fucking strongest combo
> I want some hint on how to defeat it!
>
Now that's easy. A vampire with [PRE]. Mask Empathy. Catatonic Fear :D
You can also try it the harder way by using Samantha, Flesh of Marble,
Shadow Feint and Blood Rage/Fury (depending of how much Skin of Night
he packs).
There must be other ways, but these to came to my mind immediately.
-Antero
AL
> i don't want to demonstrate that this is a fucking strongest combo
> I want some hint on how to defeat it!
And to refer on my previous post. I guess that deck also uses ANI
retainers, so you can add insult to injury by using Cailean,
Shepherd's Innocence and Trainer.
-Antero
Raille
Work great if you can get a ghoul retainer in play.
2 actions to set up, Ex and Ghoul, then you simply need to have in hand Skin
of night.
That combo schools any combat decks.
Raille
John Flournoy
> > Well, for me, it was the day when Anarch expansion came out, solved a
> > lot of the problems i had..
> >
> >
> > What combat combo you find more lethal than this? Let's talk :)
>
> in my playgroup one has started using the clan i think is the
> stronger in combat.
> maybe too much, now that Flesh of marble is common (1st hint he-he).
> little ANI pro and some bigger using all the cards with ANI PRO for
> Drawing out the beast
> carrion crows
> trap
> flesh of marble
> scorpion sting (optional)
> bone spur (optional)
> skin of night if needed
> taste of vitae if needed
>
> and as far as i've seen it flows like water
No eight-card combo will ever consistently 'flow like water' for any
length of time. (See below.)
> if he can equip wuth a dog pack nobody is safe:
> you cannot maneuvre to long
> you cannot dodge
> you cannot press to end
> you cannot end combat
> you can prevent only so much damage (it's hard to survive 3 turns with
> carrion crows and aggravated damages and damage you cannot prevent at
> each press step)
> you cannot deal more damage than 1 every round(!!!!!)
>
> you can just entomb or coma the 5 cap minion (saying good bye to your
> hannibal in the while)
> pray for that Sire's index finger or Animal trainer or mask empathy
> (and let's tell the truth: you don't pack more than 1 of these cards
> in any deck, do you?)
>
> i don't want to demonstrate that this is a fucking strongest combo
> I want some hint on how to defeat it!
>
> Andrea
Weather Control/Theft of Vitaes will go a long way towards stopping it
(especially with a minimum of damage prevention to cover a potential
Bone Spur) as Flesh of Marble/Skin of Night will not be able to stop
either of those. Plus the WC will quickly remove any Dog Pack they
might have. WC/ToV will pretty much force the opponent to _need_ to be
playing those extra-combo cards like Scorpion Sting or Bone Spur to
generate enough damage quickly enough, and odds are he can't set up
his combos every combat.
Even more amusing counter: Hit him with a Meddling of Semsmith. See
how effective his eight-card-combat engine is when he can't redraw any
of it during the whole turn.
-John Flournoy
Curevei
>
>How about something like Obedience? Or maybe intercept them followed
>by aggravated damage and Rottschreck... Try to vote them off the
>table (Banishment, PTO, etc.) Is there any way you can get someone
>else to fight them? Try something like Bounty or Succubus Club and
>offer pool for their destruction... Or you could steal all their
>vampires and mess them up before giving them back (Mind Rape, Spirit
>Marionette, Temptation)...
>
>Some of the best responses to combat involve doing something besides
>fighting. Not only does this frustrate the other player (they can't
>play their deck - no card cycle), but it puts you in the driver's
>seat.
>
>Any else have other suggestions that don't involve combat???
Prey=combat - bleed them out.
You already mentioned voting the combat deck off the table, something highly
useful once it no longer serves your purposes, depending upon seating position
may be from the get go or after it has messed up a side of the table.
Some decks can simply be ignored, like wall decks lacking crosstable block who
are your predators. Or, if you feel like it, doing nothing when there's a wall
deck as your prey until the wall deck realizes it has to ACT! to have any hope
of winning and loses much of its advantage, possibly weakening itself to where
you accidentally oust it. I mention this only because I've seen it happen.
I find it fairly easy to keep a intercept or rush combat deck spinning its
wheels if the table will rescue its predator's vampires (and if that player's
vampires have the ability to go forward). Bruise and bleed is stopped by
rescuing its prey's vampires.
John Flournoy
I'm assuming you mean 'that combo once you add a Trap to it'. But that
alone won't school a Theft deck, especially if the vampire steps to
long just once and Thefts the Ghoul to death. Kinda hard to keep the
Ex Nihilo going when all your blood is stolen..
It also dies horribly to a Tariq/Rowan Ring/Amaranth deck.
> Raille
-John Flournoy
Raille
Hey!
We were talking about a counter to a completely different combo, not a
counter to a counter combo.
Raille
Derek Ray
cur...@aol.commetal (Curevei) mumbled something about:
>I find it fairly easy to keep a intercept or rush combat deck spinning its
>wheels if the table will rescue its predator's vampires (and if that player's
>vampires have the ability to go forward). Bruise and bleed is stopped by
>rescuing its prey's vampires.
What do you do when I, playing the Rush deck, start killing YOUR
vampires and threatening "For every rescue you make on my prey or
predator, I torporize one of your guys"?
By the way, that IS the way for me to win if that's what you're doing --
I need you off the table so I have freedom to kill WITHOUT people being
constantly cross-table rescued.
-- Derek
a host is a host from coast to coast
and no one will talk to a host that's close
unless the host that isn't close
is busy, hung, or dead
John Flournoy
Hey, I was just responding directly to your statement "That combo
schools any combat decks." I didn't see anything in your statement
(heck, in the whole post) that indicates you were asserting that it
beats/counters only specific combo decks (instead of 'any combat deck'
like you actually said.) :P
-John Flournoy
Curevei
>>wheels if the table will rescue its predator's vampires (and if that
>player's
>>vampires have the ability to go forward). Bruise and bleed is stopped by
>>rescuing its prey's vampires.
>
>What do you do when I, playing the Rush deck, start killing YOUR
>vampires and threatening "For every rescue you make on my prey or
>predator, I torporize one of your guys"?
>
>By the way, that IS the way for me to win if that's what you're doing --
>I need you off the table so I have freedom to kill WITHOUT people being
>constantly cross-table rescued.
Don't have to worry about it for too long as you get ousted that much faster by
fighting even more players. Combat power doesn't correlate to winning power
and this is why.
Derek Ray
>>What do you do when I, playing the Rush deck, start killing YOUR
>>vampires and threatening "For every rescue you make on my prey or
>>predator, I torporize one of your guys"?
>>
>>By the way, that IS the way for me to win if that's what you're doing --
>>I need you off the table so I have freedom to kill WITHOUT people being
>>constantly cross-table rescued.
>
>Don't have to worry about it for too long as you get ousted that much faster by
>fighting even more players. Combat power doesn't correlate to winning power
>and this is why.
Trust me, I won't be ousted before you will.
I will shift my focus from killing my prey/predator to killing my
predator and you; my deck is built to handle two other decks at any
given time. What will you do at that point? Throw up your hands and
continue to make the threats? Or focus on ousting your OWN prey?
Raille
But you missed the ashes to ashes curve.
You amaranth, I play A2A and go to torpor with the Rowen Ring. ;)
Raille
DeistMutts
their first prey and not focusing on winning the table, and with that,
nothing you can do if you can't even persuade them to give you some
breathing spot. All I'm saying is.. pure combat combos can definitely
kill most vampires.. and nothing you can do if you don't have a heavy
combat combo to counter it.. so work the table and hope for the best..
I heard someone that got all his vampires killed/diablerized with
around 15 pool left, ended up winning the game that way. During the
game I mentioned, I had no chance of surviving, but at least I'll make
sure my predator, who focused on torporing all my vamps, did not get
pass more than just me, who did not have a heavy combat deck. Of
course, if my prey was in on it as well, i much rather teach him a
lession and make it easier for my predator to sweep.. You can't win
every game, but you sure can make hell out of it.. :)
Colin McGuigan <magu...@BGONEspeakeasy.net> wrote in message news:<K5mdnZvp262...@speakeasy.net>...
Joshua Duffin
"Derek Ray" <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gldr701ht9efqgfho...@4ax.com...
> In message <20040414132138...@mb-m11.aol.com>,
> cur...@aol.commetal (Curevei) mumbled something about:
>
> >I find it fairly easy to keep a intercept or rush combat deck
spinning its
> >wheels if the table will rescue its predator's vampires (and if that
player's
> >vampires have the ability to go forward). Bruise and bleed is
stopped by
> >rescuing its prey's vampires.
>
> What do you do when I, playing the Rush deck, start killing YOUR
> vampires and threatening "For every rescue you make on my prey or
> predator, I torporize one of your guys"?
>
> By the way, that IS the way for me to win if that's what you're
doing --
> I need you off the table so I have freedom to kill WITHOUT people
being
> constantly cross-table rescued.
Are you for serious? That trick never works. It might be closer to
letting you win than sitting there trying to keep going forward, but if
you can actually win more than one game out of ten when this is
happening, my hat is off to you.
Your deck may be "designed" to handle two players at once, but if it
actually succeeded all the time, you would have "teh p3rf3ct
d3ck1!!1!11!" and wouldn't need to *tell* us how you are unstoppable.
:-)
If you do stay alive by murdering your predator while on this "kill my
cross-table enemy and my predator at the same time" plan, how are you
going to survive your new predator? Was your deck really designed to go
backwards around the table for the 2/1/1/1 split? Does *that* trick
ever work?
I've lost more than a couple games to a table rescuing all the vampires
I kill. I don't think it's that easy to deal with. Like with pretty
much any other deck type, if your opponents decide that you are their
least favorite deck on the table, you're not going to end up happy.
Unless you just happen to get lucky, or be carrying the
super-awesome-trump to what they all happen to have available.
Josh
wins some with rush, loses some with rush
David Zopf
"Joshua Duffin" <duff...@bls.gov> wrote in message
news:c5m9tk$382oa$1...@ID-121616.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
Was your deck really designed to go
> backwards around the table for the 2/1/1/1 split? Does *that* trick
> ever work?
Cannot speak to Derek's deck, but Conor Key won a Southeastern area
tournament with this split tactic, using the Ahrimanes (featuring Howler)
IIRC.
Moral of the story; you have to be at least as experienced a player as Conor
to even try this. Yes, Josh, you qualify ;-)
DaveZ
Atom Weaver
Derek Ray
"Joshua Duffin" <duff...@bls.gov> mumbled something about:
>"Derek Ray" <lor...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:gldr701ht9efqgfho...@4ax.com...
>>
>> By the way, that IS the way for me to win if that's what you're
>doing --
>> I need you off the table so I have freedom to kill WITHOUT people
>being
>> constantly cross-table rescued.
>
>Are you for serious? That trick never works. It might be closer to
>letting you win than sitting there trying to keep going forward, but if
>you can actually win more than one game out of ten when this is
>happening, my hat is off to you.
That's the point; this course of action _is_ closer to letting me win
than me sitting there blindly trying to keep going forward, while people
casually pick up what I put down. THAT's a guaranteed loss, as you
mention yourself later on.
You have to make headway somehow; and if you can manage to pick up some
intimidation points and get the person to STOP, you can then get
yourself back on track.
>Your deck may be "designed" to handle two players at once, but if it
>actually succeeded all the time, you would have "teh p3rf3ct
>d3ck1!!1!11!" and wouldn't need to *tell* us how you are unstoppable.
>:-)
Of course it doesn't succeed all the time. No strategy does. I'm just
pointing out that while it sounds like a great idea to start cross-table
rescues, it's going to earn you some deserved ire on the part of the
rushy deck.
>If you do stay alive by murdering your predator while on this "kill my
>cross-table enemy and my predator at the same time" plan, how are you
>going to survive your new predator? Was your deck really designed to go
>backwards around the table for the 2/1/1/1 split? Does *that* trick
>ever work?
Well, ideally you don't actually kill your predator; you just keep him
'manageable', just like you would if you were being left alone. And
also ideally, after the first key minion goes down, the person you just
rushed cross-table no longer has spare actions to be rescuing OTHER
people's vampires. So you don't deviate off the beaten path THAT much.
In the face of someone who is bound and determined to keep pickin' your
opponents back up at cost to themselves... well... (shrug) it's a
question of who backs down first. If you back down first, you KNOW you
lose -- so it starts to be up to them.
I don't think the 2-1-1-1 thing ever works due to the dynamic nature of
the 5-player table; your prey tends to get 2VP, and that's a loser for
you. I know the 2-1-1 thing CAN work, though; something to keep in mind
for 4-player tables.
>I've lost more than a couple games to a table rescuing all the vampires
>I kill. I don't think it's that easy to deal with. Like with pretty
>much any other deck type, if your opponents decide that you are their
>least favorite deck on the table, you're not going to end up happy.
>Unless you just happen to get lucky, or be carrying the
>super-awesome-trump to what they all happen to have available.
Fortunately, it's easy to look like the second-least favorite deck on
the table when you're playing Rush. The way I prefer, and I know I've
thrown it out here several times, is that when I have a single Rush card
in hand and a good combat setup, to just continue bleeding for 1 until
my predator begins to look like a threat again, send the Rush backwards,
and see what comes up. My prey can Deflect or Counter all those bleeds
for 1 and knock himself out; I'd rather he burn it now in frustration
that I won't bleed for 2 than when I -do- pull a Computer Hacking.
And if you play it off well, you can look pathetic and screwed and
ineffectual -- nobody is afraid of the Rush deck that isn't out there
actively decimating things. But then, I suppose I lean towards more of
a bruise-and-bruise-and-bleed mentality these days, anyway.