enter combat action q?
Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com
One thing I never found an answer for...if you take an enter combat
action with a transitory card (bums rush, nose of the hound, etc) and
the targeted minion ends up blocking, is the action successful?
T
Chris Berger
<Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com> wrote in message news:3cfbea44.274489419@news...
>
> One thing I never found an answer for...if you take an enter combat
> action with a transitory card (bums rush, nose of the hound, etc) and
> the targeted minion ends up blocking, is the action successful?
>
Peter D Bakija
If an action is blocked, it is, by defenition, not successful.
If a Bum's Rush (or whatever) is blocked, you get into combat due to the
successful block, not the Bum's Rush (and as such, you don't get the
manuver).
Peter D Bakija
PD...@bigplanet.com
http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6
"I am the autumn in the scarlet
I am the make-up on your eyes"
-Kim Deal
Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com
<PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote:
>Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com wrote:
>
>> One thing I never found an answer for...if you take an enter combat
>> action with a transitory card (bums rush, nose of the hound, etc) and
>> the targeted minion ends up blocking, is the action successful?
>
>If an action is blocked, it is, by defenition, not successful.
>
>If a Bum's Rush (or whatever) is blocked, you get into combat due to the
>successful block, not the Bum's Rush (and as such, you don't get the
>manuver).
>
>
I would argue that if the targeted minion blocked an action to enter
combat with that same minion, it was successful. But as you point out
(rightly so) blocked actions are unsuccessful.
And thus the quandry. LSJ?
T
GreySeer
news:3d00fb06.278779857@news...
You can be in a quandry all you like, the definition of a successful action
is one that is not blocked. That might be different to what you define as a
successful action is but it's what the game defines as a successful action
which is the only thing that matters ( in the game ).
James Coupe
writes:
>I would argue that if the targeted minion blocked an action to enter
>combat with that same minion, it was successful.
It's not.
A successful block renders an action unsuccessful. (Barring later use
of Form of Mist or whatever.)
A successful block also creates a combat, that is unrelated to whatever
the action was.
Consider a bleed for one, with Aching Beauty. That's not successful,
even though one pool is burned, on a block either.
--
James Coupe
PGP 0x5D623D5D I am woman. Here, me raw.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2
13D7E668C3695D623D5D
Peter D Bakija
> I would argue that if the targeted minion blocked an action to enter
> combat with that same minion, it was successful.
You'd be incorrect. The action was a Bum's Rush, which, if successful,
results in a combat with the targeted minion. If the action is blocked,
regardless of what the action is, it is unsuccessful. Sure, in Bum's Rush's
case, you get into combat anyways, but that is because when an action is
successfully blocked, you get into combat.
The action is still unsuccessful, however.
>And thus the quandry. LSJ?
Not so much a quandry. Action is blocked. Action is unsuccessful. Combat
ensues. Combat due to the block being successful, not the action, as the
action failed.
Sten During
Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com wrote:
>
> I would argue that if the targeted minion blocked an action to enter
> combat with that same minion, it was successful. But as you point out
> (rightly so) blocked actions are unsuccessful.
>
> And thus the quandry. LSJ?
>
> T
>
You rush me. I block. I Obedience you. No combat. I'd call it
unsuccesful - all rules apart :)
Sten During
LSJ
> <Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com> wrote in message
> > Peter D Bakija <PD...@bigplanet.com> wrote:
> > >If an action is blocked, it is, by defenition, not successful.
> > >
> > >If a Bum's Rush (or whatever) is blocked, you get into combat due to the
> > >successful block, not the Bum's Rush (and as such, you don't get the
> > >manuver).
> >
> > I would argue that if the targeted minion blocked an action to enter
> > combat with that same minion, it was successful. But as you point out
> > (rightly so) blocked actions are unsuccessful.
> >
> > And thus the quandry. LSJ?
> >
> is one that is not blocked. That might be different to what you define as a
> successful action is but it's what the game defines as a successful action
> which is the only thing that matters ( in the game ).
Correct.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Colin Riggs
you run at someone and start hitting them. You get a manuver if it is not
blocked because you are running at them like a crazy person. When it is
blocked they see you coming and take steps to cancel your advantage. They
back up, and pull out their assualt rifle, whatever. You can also block an
Ambush, blocking somebody who is tracking you down with a Dog is a lot
harder.
Even in real life there isn't a quandry.
Colin Riggs
rushes bum's for fun
Sorrow
> action with a transitory card (bums rush, nose of the hound, etc) and
> the targeted minion ends up blocking, is the action successful?
As odd as it sounds, no, it's not successful. Sure, you do end up in
combat, but that combat is a result of a block and not as a result of
the card. This means you can't use the maneuver gained from the
BR, Ambush or Nose.
Sorrow
---
I keep telling them that I think they're out to get me.
They ask me if I feel remorse and I answer, "Why of course!
There's so much more I could have done if they'd let me!"
So it's Rorschach and Prozac and everything is groovy
Yoritomo Jiriki
Well this question has come up several times in our playgroup, and I
don't think we came up with a convincing answer hehe... if a "Bum's
Rush" is blocked, does that mean that you can replace the "Bum's Rush"
card? "Bum's Rush" reads:
Bum's Rush
Action
Do not replace until the end of this action. (D) Enter combat with a
ready minion controlled by another Methuselah. The acting minion gets
an optional maneuver during this combat.
Has the "Bum's Rush" action ended when it is blocked?
LSJ
>
> "Chris Berger" <ark...@ugcs.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<NkSK8.52640$0A2.41108@rwcrnsc54>...
> > <Tal...@nodamspamhotmail.com> wrote in message news:3cfbea44.274489419@news...
> > >
> > > One thing I never found an answer for...if you take an enter combat
> > > action with a transitory card (bums rush, nose of the hound, etc) and
> > > the targeted minion ends up blocking, is the action successful?
> > >
> > Blocked actions, by definition, are not successful.
>
> Well this question has come up several times in our playgroup, and I
> don't think we came up with a convincing answer hehe... if a "Bum's
> Rush" is blocked, does that mean that you can replace the "Bum's Rush"
> card?
No.
The "Do Not Replace" instruction is a function of the play of the card,
not of the resolution of the action (the latter would be pointless,
since the card would already have been replaced by that point, blocked
or not).
> Has the "Bum's Rush" action ended when it is blocked?
No.
Daniel Eriksson
rush (or ambush) is blocked?
reyda
"Daniel Eriksson" <Daniel....@epk.ericsson.se> wrote in message
news:ae9om8$5b6$1...@newstoo.ericsson.se...
> Does this meen that the acting minion gets the manuever even if the Bum's
> rush (or ambush) is blocked?
no ! if the action is blocked, the minion loses all the beneit from the
action card. So no maneuver.
Other example : When you block a clandestine contract, the card goes to the
ash heap, is not put on the target vampire, and he cannot be rushed the
following turns by the contract D action =)
reyda
Daniel Eriksson
"reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3d086eda$0$2987$79c1...@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net...
Ok but if the action is blocked why shouldn't you replace the card? (i am
trying to find a good answer for the rule benders in my playgroup :) )
James Coupe
<Daniel....@epk.ericsson.se> writes:
>Ok but if the action is blocked why shouldn't you replace the card?
The effects - like a maneuver in combat - are part of the card's
resolution. Action blocked, no resolution.
"Do not replace until..." happens when you *play* the card. They're
linked to play. Though the action has been blocked, there is still an
action there (for reactions, action modifiers and so on). So the "Do
not replace..." bit is still functioning.
For a "real world" analogy, think of it like this:
- Your vampire is sent on a Bum's Rush mission. Now, due to the limits
of the card, they do it in a hurry - no time to replace
everything they need, so you don't get a card back.
- They meet their target and have a fight. (Action successful.)
There's still been no chance to restock.
- They get blocked and don't meet their target. (Action successful.)
There's still been no chance to restock.
Actions are 'special' cards in that they are played and resolved at
different times. "Do not replace..." comes from *playing* the card, and
lasts for the whole action, come what may. "(D) Enter combat with..."
is a function of *resolution*. If the action doesn't resolve
successfully, the effect text never happens.
LSJ
>
> Does this meen that the acting minion gets the manuever even if the Bum's
> rush (or ambush) is blocked?
Does what mean that? You don't have any reference for "this".
Please quote messages you're following up to appropriately.
At any rate: no, nothing means that, since that is not true.
LSJ
> Bum's
> > > rush (or ambush) is blocked?
> >
> > no ! if the action is blocked, the minion loses all the beneit from the
> > action card. So no maneuver.
>
> trying to find a good answer for the rule benders in my playgroup :) )
No. See my previous message in this thread explaining this (with the good
answer that will satisfy the rule lawyers).
Likewise, Army of Rats still gets +1 stealth even if the action is
blocked (that is, you don't wait until the action is successful to
apply the +1 stealth).
Peter D Bakija
> Ok but if the action is blocked why shouldn't you replace the card? (i am
> trying to find a good answer for the rule benders in my playgroup :) )
Bum's Rush says "Do not replace till end of action".
When you play the Bum's Rush, you start and action.
If the action is not blocked, it is successful. You do what the card says
(get into combat with target, and get a free manuver). The action ends after
any combat is over, whether or not that combat is the result of the action
or a block.
If the action is blocked, the Bum's Rush is unsuccessful, but the action
does not end until combat (that results from a successful block) is
resolved. If the Bum's Rush is unsuccessful, you don't get the manuver, as
that only comes about from a successful action.
When any combat from the action (be it from the action being successful or a
successful block) is over, then the action is over, and you get to redraw a
card for originally playing the Bum's Rush.