How long does a typical game take you?
Eric Jome
long before the first player is ousted?
If you could answer both for competitive play and casual play, that
would help me a lot.
the HZA
That's a very broad question. Unfortunately, an accurate answer
would have to depend on individual players' styles of gameplay,
types of decks being played, and players' familiarity with both the
cards and their opponents.
The tournament rule sets a limit for one round of play at two hours.
This is a good benchmark because, while many games will end
before this mark, you'll find a good portion of matches timing out
at the two-hour mark.
I would say you can depend on the average game lasting no less
than thirty minutes, and going no longer than two and a half hours.
Naturally, there are decks that try to end things quickly and
catastrophically that can end a 5-corner game in under fifteen
minutes, and some decks focus on survival and pool gain to
make possible extremely long games.
I think those numbers are roughly accurate for both casual
and tournament play. YMMV.
--heslin
John Flournoy
> On Apr 22, 10:33 am, Eric Jome <eric.j...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > How long does it take a table of 5 players to complete a game? How
> > long before the first player is ousted?
>
> than thirty minutes, and going no longer than two and a half hours.
> Naturally, there are decks that try to end things quickly and
> catastrophically that can end a 5-corner game in under fifteen
> minutes, and some decks focus on survival and pool gain to
> make possible extremely long games.
>
> I think those numbers are roughly accurate for both casual
> and tournament play. YMMV.
For instance, Heslin's games often last far less than two hours. Or at
least, his personal involvement in them does.. :P
> --heslin
-John Flournoy
Eric Jome
> I think those numbers are roughly accurate for both casual
> and tournament play. YMMV.
Thank you for the excellent feedback.
Could anyone give some tips on building decks that are fairly
straightforward to play that keep the game short? I need to build
some demo decks for my friends, but they believe the game is going to
take over 4 hours to play and I need a convincing example to help
redirect their opinions.
So, according to the information I have, bloat decks should generally
be avoided. What sort of decks play out faster? I'd rather not have
an entire table of sneak & bleed if possible, but one player doing
that seems fine. It seems things like walls (interrupting everything
that happens) or weenie decks (many actions to perform each turn)
might play slower too?
The Lasombra
> So, according to the information I have, bloat decks should generally
> be avoided. What sort of decks play out faster? I'd rather not have
> an entire table of sneak & bleed if possible, but one player doing
> that seems fine. It seems things like walls (interrupting everything
> that happens) or weenie decks (many actions to perform each turn)
> might play slower too?
Weenie decks will actually help finish the game more quickly, as the
player piloting the deck won't be leaving as high a percentage of
total minions untapped to defend. Quick frequently with new players,
I see the player leaving 2-3 minions untapped and doing nothing, and
this drags the game out, as they then have no offense. If they have
6-7 minions, they can still do that and have 3-5 minions for offense
and the game can finish.
When choosing actions for the demo deck, focus on those that do pool
damage, i.e. ignore Rush combat, cryptic mission style blood
depletion, Free States Rant blood depletion, Temptation/Corruption
strategies, ally recruitment, etc.
I would use a high ratio of action cards to action modifiers, so the
deck can lead the player into appropriate actions that end the game.
i.e. Govern instead of Conditioning, Kine Resources Contested instead
of Bewitching Oration, Night Moves instead of Faceless Night, etc.
Streamline the combat, using primarily strikes and avoid the "before
range", "before strike", "during the press step" type of cards. You
can bring them into the fullness of the game after they are convinced
that it can be played in a reasonable amount of time.
If possible, play 3-4 player games while teaching, as that will also
hasten the entire game, and it will be each players turn more often.
Avoid games with more than 5 players like the plague.
Carpe noctem.
Lasombra
The Lasombra
We completed a 5-player game and a 4-player game in 2 hours and 30
minutes last night.
> How long before the first player is ousted?
The first player is usually ousted before the 10th turn.
> If you could answer both for competitive play and casual play, that
> would help me a lot.
Depends 100% upon the players. Players that know the games and know
their decks will play much more quickly than those that must read the
cards before making decisions on how to take their turns. While it
may take 2.5 hours while learning to finish a 5-player game, there is
no reason it cannot always finish in 2 hours once familiarity with the
cards and the game is acquired.
LSJ
Weenie decks definitely do not slow play down. Quite the opposite.
Bleed. Vote. Rush combat (or "get blocked combat", also called bruise and bleed)
are all common archetypes and are good choices for your purposes.
librarian
You should post this article somewhere in your Demo Decks page, it's
great advice for those trying to start a playgroup or get some buddies
involved.
Thanks Jeff.
best -
chris
Juggernaut1981
Decks I recommend for handing to "newbies"... Most of them are geared
heavily to prey ousting, will allow the newbies to encounter offensive
and defensive combat, give exposure to voting/equipment and while they
may do some blocking you are leaving out the dangerzone technique of
the Tor Wall of Guns deck.
Pre-bleed (I have X minions, and X Social Charms in my hand... I think
my turn has been suitably mapped out...)
Brujah/!Brujah Pot/Pre Bleed'n'Smash (Undead Strength + Disarm, Social
Charm, etc)
Ventrue Bleed w/ Guns (GtU, Shotguns + Prevent, S:CE)
Toreador Vote (KRC/ConAg, ConBoon, Simple Vote stuff, no VoterCaps)
Malk/!Malk Cheese-Bleed (Lost in Crowds, Kindred Spirits, Deny(?))
Settite Pre-Obf Cheese Bleed (Enchant Kindred, Obf Stealth)
Ishtarri Pre/For "Invulnerable Bleed" (Pre bleed actions + Fortitude
prevent)
Guruhi Vote'n'Smash (KRC/ConAg + Bewitching Oration + Overseer, Thrown
Gates or Animalism Combat)
lon...@dlc.fi
Eric,
I gather you're the nice bloke who used to run the excellent OTE
tournaments at GenCon? Played in a couple of them in the 90's. You
might remember me as the only Finn around... Good to see that you're
still active, mate!
One easy way of introdcuing new players to VTES would be to use the
VTES: 3rd Edition Players Kit (WW2757):
www.fantasiapelit.com/index.php?main=ai&kat=single&mista=indeksi&etsittava=_110450
It has a nice walkthrough method of teaching the ropes for newbies.
Around 10 first turns are scripted so that they'll get to see/learn
the rules.
Another similar promotional item created for the same use, but mainly
for Princes, is VTES: Demo Kit (WW2569). Here's the product blurp:
"These demo kits contain 2 of each of 3 demo decks. These new demo
decks have 33 common cards chosen for the deck style and simple play.
The decks are intended to be given to new players after a demo. The
kit also contains some playmats, which seem to help new players learn
the game."
Ginés wrote a nice scripted walkthough for it (similiar to the one 3rd
Edition Player Kit has):
www.white-wolf.com/vtes/downloads/VTESDemoScript.pdf
If you can't get ahold of a copy of the Demo Kit, drop me a line -we
have a rather sizeable number of them.
Cheers,
Janne / Lonkka
Peter D Bakija
To give another answer to your basic question, yeah, it depends. But
in my experience, 4-5 player games usually run 1-2 hours, in casual
play. This is completely based on my group that tends to play
reasonably quickly (i.e. we are generally pretty focused on the game
and not doing other stuff at the same time), and tend to not wheel/
deal/negotiate all that much. If people are spending a lot of time
trying to broker deals and trying to beg folks into doing things for
them, the game could take longer. But if you are generally playing a
straight forward game where everyone is trying to oust their prey and
not spending too much time trying to talk their way into victory, 1-2
hours is completely reasonable for a full game with 4 or 5 players.
In competition, as noted, games have (generally speaking) a 2 hour
limit. Again, in my experience, *most* tournament games end in under 2
hours. Occasionally, they go to time, but far less often than not
(again, my experience). Tournaments that I run (we generally do 2
round plus a final on a Friday evening) tend to start at about 7:00,
and if we aren't done by 1:00 am, it means that someone showed up
late.
-Peter
the HZA
> For instance, Heslin's games often last far less than two hours. Or at
> least, his personal involvement in them does.. :P
Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha!
I can't recall if this was prompted by your upstream murder of my
only vampire or what.
--regardless, that was awesome.
hza
Eric Jome
> I gather you're the nice bloke who used to run the excellent OTE
> tournaments at GenCon?
That would be me. :)
It's good to hear from you again, too.