[LSJ] Zengha swarm, Tangle Atropos' hand

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François

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Nov 21, 2005, 6:32:54 AM11/21/05
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Hello everyone,


If Zengha employs a Swarm thanks to her ability (as an additional
retainer), can she choose another vampire to place the swarm on ?

Similarly, what happens if a laibon with animalism employs a Swarm
thanks to Pack Alpha ?


Tangle Atropos' Hand cancels an action when a minion is attempting to
block (but before the action is blocked). I guess that, consequently,
the cancelled action does not count towards the no repeat action rule
(and the acting vampire could attempt the same action right away),
since the action was cancelled before reaching resolution. Am I right ?

Thank you !

François

LSJ

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Nov 21, 2005, 6:47:22 AM11/21/05
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François wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> If Zengha employs a Swarm thanks to her ability (as an additional
> retainer), can she choose another vampire to place the swarm on ?

No.

> Similarly, what happens if a laibon with animalism employs a Swarm
> thanks to Pack Alpha ?

He gets the swarm (unless blocked, then he gets nothing but combat).

> Tangle Atropos' Hand cancels an action when a minion is attempting to
> block (but before the action is blocked). I guess that, consequently,
> the cancelled action does not count towards the no repeat action rule
> (and the acting vampire could attempt the same action right away),
> since the action was cancelled before reaching resolution. Am I right ?

Yes.

--
That is my story, be it bitter or be it sweet.
Keep a little and let a little come back to me.
LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply)
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

François

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Nov 21, 2005, 7:55:22 AM11/21/05
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LSJ wrote:
> François wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> > If Zengha employs a Swarm thanks to her ability (as an additional
> > retainer), can she choose another vampire to place the swarm on ?
>
> No.
>
> > Similarly, what happens if a laibon with animalism employs a Swarm
> > thanks to Pack Alpha ?
>
> He gets the swarm (unless blocked, then he gets nothing but combat).

I don't uderstand the parentheses' content in the Pack Alpha's
context...

If I understand correctly :

If a vampire employs a retainer that is moved to another minion when
employed (e.g. Swarm or Charnas) by any other mean than the regular
employ retainer action, the "put the retainer on any ready minion"
clause is ignored ?


Thank you,


François

LSJ

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Nov 21, 2005, 8:16:06 AM11/21/05
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François wrote:
> LSJ wrote:

> > François wrote:
> > > Similarly, what happens if a laibon with animalism employs a Swarm
> > > thanks to Pack Alpha ?
> >
> > He gets the swarm (unless blocked, then he gets nothing but combat).
>
> I don't uderstand the parentheses' content in the Pack Alpha's
> context...

Sorry. I was thinking Pack Alpha was an action (to be blocked).
Ignore the parentheses part.

> If I understand correctly :
>
> If a vampire employs a retainer that is moved to another minion when
> employed (e.g. Swarm or Charnas) by any other mean than the regular
> employ retainer action, the "put the retainer on any ready minion"
> clause is ignored ?

Yes.

talonz

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Dec 18, 2005, 12:30:48 AM12/18/05
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LSJ wrote:
> François wrote:
> > LSJ wrote:
> > > François wrote:
> > > > Similarly, what happens if a laibon with animalism employs a Swarm
> > > > thanks to Pack Alpha ?
> > >
> >
> > If a vampire employs a retainer that is moved to another minion when
> > employed (e.g. Swarm or Charnas) by any other mean than the regular
> > employ retainer action, the "put the retainer on any ready minion"
> > clause is ignored ?
>
> Yes.

May I ask why? I need to explain this to a player of mine here.

G

LSJ

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Dec 18, 2005, 7:10:07 AM12/18/05
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Pack Alpha gives the minion the retainer.

talonz

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Dec 18, 2005, 9:55:35 PM12/18/05
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Well as we were looking at these 2 cards wednesday, pack alpha says
'employ retainer from hand' and swarm says 'when employed, place on any
ready minion', so I was looking for a little more explanation as to why
the combo doesnt work.

LSJ

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Dec 19, 2005, 8:55:03 AM12/19/05
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No, it doesn't.
Quotes should be reserved for quoting, not for paraphrasing.

talonz

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Dec 20, 2005, 6:38:14 AM12/20/05
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LSJ wrote:
> talonz wrote:
> > Well as we were looking at these 2 cards wednesday, pack alpha says
> > 'employ retainer from hand' and swarm says 'when employed, place on any
> > ready minion', so I was looking for a little more explanation as to why
> > the combo doesnt work.
>
> No, it doesn't.
> Quotes should be reserved for quoting, not for paraphrasing.
>
> --

That's why I didn't use full quotation marks. But i'm not interested
in reliving the do's and don'ts of research paper writing thank you.

In either case, what does it take to get an actual answer out of you?
I would happily find the full cardtext but I'm at work and as you well
know, the WW cardtext list is still down.

G

LSJ

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Dec 20, 2005, 6:44:48 AM12/20/05
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talonz wrote:
> LSJ wrote:
>
>>talonz wrote:
>>
>>>Well as we were looking at these 2 cards wednesday, pack alpha says
>>>'employ retainer from hand' and swarm says 'when employed, place on any
>>>ready minion', so I was looking for a little more explanation as to why
>>>the combo doesnt work.
>>
>>No, it doesn't.
>>Quotes should be reserved for quoting, not for paraphrasing.
>
> That's why I didn't use full quotation marks. But i'm not interested
> in reliving the do's and don'ts of research paper writing thank you.

I've never heard of partial quote marks. Can you describe more
fully their function and why one would use them for paraphrasing
when using "says that" with no quotes, partial or otherwise, would
suffice and be clearer?

> In either case, what does it take to get an actual answer out of you?

Not much -- cf. the repeated answers already given in this thread.

Again: Pack Alpha gives the vampire playing Pack Alpha the retainer
he's employing.

See also Draba and Pier 13.

talonz

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Dec 20, 2005, 6:46:21 AM12/20/05
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Apparently the bookmark has changed slightly since the hack....cardtext
suddenly is back up.

swarm
"Put the Swarm on any ready minion (employing the Swarm is a +1 stealth
(D) action if that minion is controlled by another Methuselah). If this
action is blocked, put the Swarm on the acting minion instead "

alpha
"Employ an animal retainer from your hand before range is determined.
Pay cost as normal"

Alpha says employ from hand, swarm says put me on any ready
minion....whats the problem here?

G

LSJ

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Dec 20, 2005, 6:50:56 AM12/20/05
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talonz wrote:

Card text also says that putting it on another minion is a +1
stealth (D) action. How do you propose to resolve that action in
the middle of combat?

Pack Alpha gives the vampire employing the retainer the retainer.
The vampire employs an animal retainer before range.

James Coupe

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Dec 20, 2005, 1:59:34 PM12/20/05
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In message <AeSpf.8230$nm....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, LSJ

<vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> writes:
>talonz wrote:
>
>> Apparently the bookmark has changed slightly since the hack....cardtext
>> suddenly is back up.
>> swarm
>> "Put the Swarm on any ready minion (employing the Swarm is a +1 stealth
>> (D) action if that minion is controlled by another Methuselah). If this
>> action is blocked, put the Swarm on the acting minion instead "
>> alpha
>> "Employ an animal retainer from your hand before range is determined.
>> Pay cost as normal"
>> Alpha says employ from hand, swarm says put me on any ready
>> minion....whats the problem here?
>
>Card text also says that putting it on another minion is a +1
>stealth (D) action. How do you propose to resolve that action in
>the middle of combat?

Actually, card text says that it's a +1 stealth (D) action if it's
controlled by another Methuselah. What's the case if I were to decide
(for some obscure reason) to put it on a minion I control? That's not
explicitly by card text required to be an action.

--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.

LSJ

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Dec 20, 2005, 2:57:38 PM12/20/05
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James Coupe wrote:
> In message <AeSpf.8230$nm....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>, LSJ
> <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> writes:
> >Card text also says that putting it on another minion is a +1
> >stealth (D) action. How do you propose to resolve that action in
> >the middle of combat?
>
> Actually, card text says that it's a +1 stealth (D) action if it's
> controlled by another Methuselah. What's the case if I were to decide
> (for some obscure reason) to put it on a minion I control? That's not
> explicitly by card text required to be an action.

It was just an aside.

Seems clear enough.

If you could place it on another minion you control, then that would
mean you're accepting the "put on any ready minion" clause, and
therefore can place it on a minion controlled by someone else.

So you're left with the result that you aren't allowed to avail
yourself of the "put on any ready minion" clause.

talonz

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Dec 21, 2005, 12:43:01 AM12/21/05
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The singular/partial quotation marks are for quotes within quotes. Its
easier to use them when not fully quoting than saying 'more or less'
when paraphrasing all the time.

Shorthand, if you will.

G

talonz

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Dec 21, 2005, 12:45:01 AM12/21/05
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Aha. Thank you. I had thought that 'stealth D action' text was simply
a reminder that when recruiting it via an action onto another
controllers minion it became a D action, and not a specefic requirement
(only via that D action).

I do not think the latter is clear at all, a table full of veteran
players did not see that interpreatation this past weekly play session.

G

LSJ

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Dec 21, 2005, 6:24:24 AM12/21/05
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The (D) action thing is just an aside -- a by-product that illustrates
at least one example of a problem that would be found if an alternate
ruling were made.

Pack Alpha gives the vampire the retainer, regardless of whether the
ordinary employ action would be (D) or not.

James Coupe

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Dec 21, 2005, 7:25:50 AM12/21/05
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In message <1135143781....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, talonz

<talo...@yahoo.ca> writes:
>The singular/partial quotation marks are for quotes within quotes.

That particular convention varies wildly. They are often used for
figurative, or even sometimes mildly sarcastic, uses of words, for
instance, and some grammarians typically use ' ' for quotes and "" for
quotes within quotes, and some use the reverse.

(As part of my job, being aware of grammatical differences such as this
between common standards in the US and common standards in the UK, and
variations within each, is something I stumble across every so often, as
I am a UK-based writer typically writing for US audiences.)

>Its
>easier to use them when not fully quoting than saying 'more or less'
>when paraphrasing all the time.

If everyone knows that standard, yes. It's safer to assume that they
don't, given that you don't know who is reading your posts while lurking
or searching the group from Google Groups and similar.

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