LSJ Qs: Direct Intervention, Toreador Grand Ball, Protected Resources, Carlotta Giovanni, Wave of Lethargy, withdrawing from the Jyhad

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Joshua Duffin

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Oct 23, 2001, 11:56:20 AM10/23/01
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DI: If a Direct Intervention is played to cancel a card with
"Do Not Replace" text, is the "Do Not Replace" cancelled
along with the effects of the card, or is it still in
effect?

(The occasion was a Wake with Evening's Freshness that I
played, Intervened upon by my prey. We weren't sure if
it still counted against my handsize until my next untap
or not.)

TGB: If the second vampire (the one chosen to be tapped) leaves
play, does the effect of Toreador Grand Ball end? Or is it
unaffected since cardtext doesn't say anything about the
unblockability of the first vampire being dependent on the
tapping of the second?

PR: If a vampire with a superior Spying Mission on it again
successfully bleeds the Spied-upon Methuselah, who has a
Protected Resources in play, is the bleed reduced to 2 after
the Spying Mission effect is applied? (I'm pretty sure it is,
since the rule is that "you never burn more than 2 pool for
a bleed" while Protected Resources is in play.)

CG: When Carlotta's action to exchange a card in your ash-heap
for a card in your hand is announced, you announce the card
you're retrieving. What about the one in your hand? Do you
announce the name of it, hold it up (without revealing it) and
say "this card here", or are you free to choose, when the action
resolves, which card from your hand will go to the ash-heap?

WoL: Wave of Lethargy says:

"Only usable before range is determined. Maneuvers and presses
cost the opposing vampire an additional blood to play this round.
A vampire may play only one Wave of Lethargy each round of combat.

SUP: As above, and strike cards cost the opposing vampire an
additional blood to play this round."

The inferior does not say "maneuver and press *cards*" cost an
additional blood to play - is the omission irrelevant? From
[LSJ 20010814] it appears so, as he said that using a Mob
Connections press or IR Goggles maneuver would not cost an
additional blood. Correct?

At superior, do cards that are both strikes and maneuvers (or
presses) cost two blood to play (one additional plus one
additional)? Aid from Bats, for example - and at superior
it is a strike, maneuver, *and* press card; does it then cost
three blood to play? Or is two the most it can cost, since if
you use the card for a maneuver, it is being played as both
a maneuver and strike card, but not (at that time) as a press
card?

Withdrawing: One of the conditions for successfully withdrawing
from the game is that "None of your minions lose (or spend) any
blood until your next untap phase." [9.2] You would not meet
this condition if a vampire of yours was diablerized while it
still had at least one blood on it, right? Since the blood is
first moved to the diablerizing vampire and the vampire is burned
after that? But you *would* meet the condition if the diablerized
vampire was empty when diablerized.

What about if Golconda is played on a vampire while you're trying
to withdraw? Does it count as "losing blood" for the vampire to
be removed from the game?


Thanks,

Josh

vekn prince of washington "we have many questions" dc

LSJ

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Oct 23, 2001, 1:17:44 PM10/23/01
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Joshua Duffin wrote:
>
> DI: If a Direct Intervention is played to cancel a card with
> "Do Not Replace" text, is the "Do Not Replace" cancelled
> along with the effects of the card, or is it still in
> effect?

Canceled.

> (The occasion was a Wake with Evening's Freshness that I
> played, Intervened upon by my prey. We weren't sure if
> it still counted against my handsize until my next untap
> or not.)

Not.



> TGB: If the second vampire (the one chosen to be tapped) leaves
> play, does the effect of Toreador Grand Ball end? Or is it
> unaffected since cardtext doesn't say anything about the
> unblockability of the first vampire being dependent on the
> tapping of the second?

The latter.

> PR: If a vampire with a superior Spying Mission on it again
> successfully bleeds the Spied-upon Methuselah, who has a
> Protected Resources in play, is the bleed reduced to 2 after
> the Spying Mission effect is applied? (I'm pretty sure it is,
> since the rule is that "you never burn more than 2 pool for
> a bleed" while Protected Resources is in play.)

It is.

> CG: When Carlotta's action to exchange a card in your ash-heap
> for a card in your hand is announced, you announce the card
> you're retrieving. What about the one in your hand? Do you
> announce the name of it, hold it up (without revealing it) and
> say "this card here", or are you free to choose, when the action
> resolves, which card from your hand will go to the ash-heap?

Announce the cards by name when the action is announced.

> WoL: Wave of Lethargy says:
>
> "Only usable before range is determined. Maneuvers and presses
> cost the opposing vampire an additional blood to play this round.
> A vampire may play only one Wave of Lethargy each round of combat.
>
> SUP: As above, and strike cards cost the opposing vampire an
> additional blood to play this round."
>
> The inferior does not say "maneuver and press *cards*" cost an
> additional blood to play - is the omission irrelevant? From
> [LSJ 20010814] it appears so, as he said that using a Mob
> Connections press or IR Goggles maneuver would not cost an
> additional blood. Correct?

Correct. Only cards are "played" - other effects are only "used".

> At superior, do cards that are both strikes and maneuvers (or
> presses) cost two blood to play (one additional plus one
> additional)? Aid from Bats, for example - and at superior
> it is a strike, maneuver, *and* press card; does it then cost
> three blood to play? Or is two the most it can cost, since if
> you use the card for a maneuver, it is being played as both
> a maneuver and strike card, but not (at that time) as a press
> card?

No. Just one additional (for the "play", not the "use").

> Withdrawing: One of the conditions for successfully withdrawing
> from the game is that "None of your minions lose (or spend) any
> blood until your next untap phase." [9.2] You would not meet
> this condition if a vampire of yours was diablerized while it
> still had at least one blood on it, right? Since the blood is
> first moved to the diablerizing vampire and the vampire is burned
> after that? But you *would* meet the condition if the diablerized
> vampire was empty when diablerized.

Right.

> What about if Golconda is played on a vampire while you're trying
> to withdraw? Does it count as "losing blood" for the vampire to
> be removed from the game?

No. Nor would it count if he were merely burned (as opposed to diablerized,
during which the blood moves off of him before he is burned).

--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Derek Ray

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Oct 23, 2001, 1:41:42 PM10/23/01
to
On 23 Oct 2001 08:56:20 -0700, duff...@bls.gov (Joshua Duffin) wrote:

IANALSJ, as usual.

>DI: If a Direct Intervention is played to cancel a card with
>"Do Not Replace" text, is the "Do Not Replace" cancelled
>along with the effects of the card, or is it still in
>effect?

The card was played, and the DNR should be conditional upon the playing
of the card, not the success of its effect. I'd say don't replace,
since you would normally replace IMMEDIATELY upon playing the card
(technically before DI has a chance to take effect). Dicky, but. =)

>TGB: If the second vampire (the one chosen to be tapped) leaves
>play, does the effect of Toreador Grand Ball end? Or is it
>unaffected since cardtext doesn't say anything about the
>unblockability of the first vampire being dependent on the
>tapping of the second?

Unaffected. You can even untap the second vampire somehow (with Rutor's
Hand, say) and the first vampire will still remain unblockable.

>PR: If a vampire with a superior Spying Mission on it again
>successfully bleeds the Spied-upon Methuselah, who has a
>Protected Resources in play, is the bleed reduced to 2 after
>the Spying Mission effect is applied? (I'm pretty sure it is,
>since the rule is that "you never burn more than 2 pool for
>a bleed" while Protected Resources is in play.)

Yep. Bleed resolves successfully, then SM is burned to add +2, then PR
kicks in since the total can't be more than 2.

>CG: When Carlotta's action to exchange a card in your ash-heap
>for a card in your hand is announced, you announce the card
>you're retrieving. What about the one in your hand? Do you
>announce the name of it, hold it up (without revealing it) and
>say "this card here", or are you free to choose, when the action
>resolves, which card from your hand will go to the ash-heap?

Carlotta's text reads "Independent. As a +1 stealth action, Carlotta may
burn 1 blood to exchange <a chosen> library card in your ash heap for
any card in your hand." So no, you don't have to announce the card in
hand. =)

>WoL: Wave of Lethargy says:
>
>"Only usable before range is determined. Maneuvers and presses
>cost the opposing vampire an additional blood to play this round.
>A vampire may play only one Wave of Lethargy each round of combat.
>
>SUP: As above, and strike cards cost the opposing vampire an
>additional blood to play this round."
>
>The inferior does not say "maneuver and press *cards*" cost an
>additional blood to play - is the omission irrelevant? From
>[LSJ 20010814] it appears so, as he said that using a Mob
>Connections press or IR Goggles maneuver would not cost an
>additional blood. Correct?

Using an IR Goggles maneuver isn't actually "playing" a maneuver, so the
omission seems to be somewhat irrelevant.

>At superior, do cards that are both strikes and maneuvers (or
>presses) cost two blood to play (one additional plus one
>additional)? Aid from Bats, for example - and at superior
>it is a strike, maneuver, *and* press card; does it then cost
>three blood to play? Or is two the most it can cost, since if
>you use the card for a maneuver, it is being played as both
>a maneuver and strike card, but not (at that time) as a press
>card?

Hmm. I can see two ways to interpret this; one being that you pay a
single blood when you play the card, since it's the only time you're
PLAYING it, despite using multiple effects from it. The other being
that you pay when you actually use the effect, so you would pay one to
play it and gain the maneuver, then one if you actually were able to
strike with it (no maneuver-back-and-IG), then one if you chose to press
with it.

Going by LSJ's earlier ruling, I'd say you pay two blood: first, for
playing the maneuver (inferior WoL text), and second, for playing a
strike card (superior WoL text). The press would go free as an extra
effect granted from the strike card, but not actually PLAYED.

>Withdrawing: One of the conditions for successfully withdrawing
>from the game is that "None of your minions lose (or spend) any
>blood until your next untap phase." [9.2] You would not meet
>this condition if a vampire of yours was diablerized while it
>still had at least one blood on it, right? Since the blood is
>first moved to the diablerizing vampire and the vampire is burned
>after that? But you *would* meet the condition if the diablerized
>vampire was empty when diablerized.

Sounds right to me.

>What about if Golconda is played on a vampire while you're trying
>to withdraw? Does it count as "losing blood" for the vampire to
>be removed from the game?

Nope. Just losing a vampire. Maybe add a clause to the withdrawal
rules? :)

--
Derek

Derek Ray

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Oct 23, 2001, 1:46:24 PM10/23/01
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On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:41:42 GMT, Derek Ray <lor...@yah00.com> wrote:

>On 23 Oct 2001 08:56:20 -0700, duff...@bls.gov (Joshua Duffin) wrote:
>
>IANALSJ, as usual.

And it shows by the answers (and the post that showed up right after I
sent this. d'oh!). Nevermind =)


--
Derek

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