Rulings Question
Myrdin
I have a rulings questions that hopefully i could get some help with
here.
The question revolves around Undead presistance and strike: torpor
effects.
The situation arose last sunday when player A played Coma and player B
played Undead persistance.
I followed this ruling:
http://groups.google.se/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/1ded92e5d6301898/30b040ed69302c3a?hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&q=wounded+undead+persistance+author:LSJ
>> >2. Undead Persistance
>> >Does Undead Persistance make the vampire Wounded? I would think that it
>> >requires additional text.
>> UP does not make you wounded. wounding a vampire makes him wounded,
>> which is what will normally create the opportunity to play UP.
>> >Meaning, that if Francisco Domingo de Polonia plays Entombment against
>> >Kyle Strathcona, Cardinal of Canada, and Kyle plays inferior Undead
>> >Persistance, he is not wounded _and_ cannot go to torpor. If Polonia
plays
>> >Wolf Claws during the next round and strikes for 1 aggravated hand, Kyle
>> >will get wounded, but will not need to burn any blood (as that was the
>> >first point of aggravated damage he recieved, which wounded him, but being
>> >Wounded does not send him to torpor, as per undead persistance). Right?
>> right.
>Correct.
>ttp://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=Cardlist_U#Undead_Persi...
>
>--
>LSJ (vtes...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
>V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
>Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu
Wich states that playing Entombment does not make you Wounded as seen
above.
Then I found this also from LSJ:
http://groups.google.se/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/ce92e0d51231b3c2/851f5afe2cb03767?hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&q=undead+persistance+coma+author:LSJ
>Coma's resolution makes you wounded, since you are now "on your
>way to torpor". Failing to heal damage (regular or agg damage)
>at any time means that you are wounded (and you can never heal
>agg damage, by definition).
Wich ruling is valid, does Strike: Topor effect make you wounded or
not?
And a third question although it might not seem related it tangents
the question. What is the reason for Psyche to cancel the go to torpor
effects of Rötschreck?
Rötschreck [Jyhad:U, CE:U, Anarchs:PG, BH:PTr2, KMW:PB, LoB:PA,
Third:PTz]
Cardtype: Master
Master: out-of-turn. Frenzy.
Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict
aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be
successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is tapped and
sent to torpor. This vampire does not untap as normal. During this
vampire's next untap phase, burn this card.
As there is a "full stop" after the Combat ends text i would imagine
the send to torpor effect is separate from the Combat ends. I would
imagine that the secondary effect is ignored since the first effect is
ignored.
Does the above ruling affect the earlier ruling on Undead persistance
and Strike:Torpor effects, if the vampire struck is not wounded then
is he sent to torpor as an effect of the Undead persistance cardtext
after combat? I would have imagined that the secondary cardtext on
Undead persistance was for explanatory reasons, implied due the old
cardtext.
Thus my reasoning would be that if the vampire is not wounded by the
"strike: torpor" effect it would "wear off" so to speak since it's not
a status change but a single effect due to the non-wounded ruling. The
question is if Undead persistance would send you to torpor due to
cardtext afterwards.
/Ivan
LSJ
> Hello,
>
> I have a rulings questions that hopefully i could get some help with
> here.
>
> The question revolves around Undead presistance and strike: torpor
> effects.
>
> The situation arose last sunday when player A played Coma and player B
> played Undead persistance.
>
> I followed this ruling:
> http://groups.google.se/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_thread/thread/1ded92e5d6301898/30b040ed69302c3a?hl=sv&ie=UTF-8&q=wounded+undead+persistance+author:LSJ
Please link messages, not whole threads.
(From google, use the message's "just this message" link).
> does Strike: Topor effect make you wounded or not?
Strike: torpor makes you wounded.
> And a third question although it might not seem related it tangents
> the question. What is the reason for Psyche to cancel the go to torpor
> effects of R�tschreck?
R�tschreck is one of several "end combat and do something else" effect.
Psyche! interrupts that effect when combat ends and causes a new combat to
start. By doing so, the "and do something else" of the original effect is lost.
In the same way, Form of Mists "continue as if unblocked" effect would also be
lost if Psyche! is played when Form of Mist ends the combat.
> Does the above ruling affect the earlier ruling on Undead persistance
> and Strike:Torpor effects,
Moot, but no. Undead Persistence is not an "end combat and do something else"
effect. And ...
> if the vampire struck is not wounded then
... the vampire who was wounded and then played Undead Persistence is still wounded.
> is he sent to torpor as an effect of the Undead persistance cardtext
> after combat?
Yes.
> I would have imagined that the secondary cardtext on
> Undead persistance was for explanatory reasons, implied due the old
> cardtext.
True.
> Thus my reasoning would be that if the vampire is not wounded by the
> "strike: torpor" effect it would "wear off" so to speak since it's not
> a status change but a single effect due to the non-wounded ruling. The
> question is if Undead persistance would send you to torpor due to
> cardtext afterwards.
Even if Undead Persistence did not, the vampire's wounded status would send xer
to torpor once Undead Persistence's stasis effect wears off.
Myrdin
> Myrdin wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> > I have a rulings questions that hopefully i could get some help with
> > here.
>
> > The question revolves around Undead presistance and strike: torpor
> > effects.
>
> > The situation arose last sunday when player A played Coma and player B
> > played Undead persistance.
>
> > I followed this ruling:
>
> Please link messages, not whole threads.
> (From google, use the message's "just this message" link).
>
> > does Strike: Topor effect make you wounded or not?
>
> Strike: torpor makes you wounded.
>
> > And a third question although it might not seem related it tangents
> > the question. What is the reason for Psyche to cancel the go to torpor
>
> Rötschreck is one of several "end combat and do something else" effect.
> Psyche! interrupts that effect when combat ends and causes a new combat to
> start. By doing so, the "and do something else" of the original effect is lost.
>
> In the same way, Form of Mists "continue as if unblocked" effect would also be
> lost if Psyche! is played when Form of Mist ends the combat.
>
> > Does the above ruling affect the earlier ruling on Undead persistance
> > and Strike:Torpor effects,
>
> Moot, but no. Undead Persistence is not an "end combat and do something else"
> effect. And ...
>
> > if the vampire struck is not wounded then
>
> ... the vampire who was wounded and then played Undead Persistence is still wounded.
>
> > is he sent to torpor as an effect of the Undead persistance cardtext
> > after combat?
>
> Yes.
>
> > I would have imagined that the secondary cardtext on
> > Undead persistance was for explanatory reasons, implied due the old
> > cardtext.
>
> True.
>
> > Thus my reasoning would be that if the vampire is not wounded by the
> > "strike: torpor" effect it would "wear off" so to speak since it's not
> > a status change but a single effect due to the non-wounded ruling. The
> > question is if Undead persistance would send you to torpor due to
> > cardtext afterwards.
>
> Even if Undead Persistence did not, the vampire's wounded status would send xer
> to torpor once Undead Persistence's stasis effect wears off.
Thank you, I was in error then since I followed the ruling with the
latest date =/. If strike: Torpor makes you wounded the problem
becomes moot since it is indeed a status change.
Until next time!
/Ivan
James Coupe
>Thank you, I was in error then since I followed the ruling with the
>latest date =/. If strike: Torpor makes you wounded the problem
>becomes moot since it is indeed a status change.
If you'd read the thread you posted, you'd see that LSJ's error is
pointed out in the very next post, and LSJ immediately corrects himself.
http://groups.google.se/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/171de0260305987f
Right, sorry. I didn't read the example close enough.
The Persistent vampire is considered wounded, regardless of the
nature of the effect that enabled him to play Persistence.
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D YOU ARE IN ERROR.
EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2 NO-ONE IS SCREAMING.
13D7E668C3695D623D5D THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.