[lsj] weird withdrawal scenario

[salem]

if i have a vampire in torpor with blood on it, and i am in a
withdrawal attempt, and someone diablerises or otherwise burns that
vampire, does it count as a vampire losing blood for the purposes of
foiling the withdrawal?
or is it burned first, and thus the losing of blood doesn't really
happen from 'inside' the game state, or something?

salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
(replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

[kamel...@yvelines.pref.gouv.fr]

salem wrote:
> if i have a vampire in torpor with blood on it, and i am in a
> withdrawal attempt, and someone diablerises or otherwise burns that
> vampire, does it count as a vampire losing blood for the purposes of
> foiling the withdrawal?
> or is it burned first, and thus the losing of blood doesn't really
> happen from 'inside' the game state, or something?

>From the online rulebook:
"When a card is burned or removed from the game, any counters or other
cards on it are burned."
"Blood counters that you "pay" or "spend" are also considered burned."

Conditions to withdraw:
" None of your minions enter combat until your next untap phase.
 None of your minions lose (or spend) any blood until your next
untap phase.
 You do not lose (or spend) any pool until your next untap phase. "
So, if your vamp with blood is diablerized, you have failed your
withdrawal attempt.
Bye,
Kamel.

[Charles Lechasseur]

In article <1105358821....@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
kamel...@yvelines.pref.gouv.fr wrote:

>From the online rulebook:
>"When a card is burned or removed from the game, any counters or other
>cards on it are burned."
>"Blood counters that you "pay" or "spend" are also considered burned."
>
>Conditions to withdraw:

>"=EF=82=B7 None of your minions enter combat until your next untap phase.
>=EF=82=B7 None of your minions lose (or spend) any blood until your next
>untap phase.
>=EF=82=B7 You do not lose (or spend) any pool until your next untap phase. "

>So, if your vamp with blood is diablerized, you have failed your
>withdrawal attempt.
>Bye,
>Kamel.

Actually, nothing here says that blood that is "burned" is also considered
"spent" or "paid".

However, maybe "burned" also means "lost"...

--
charles lechasseur - da...@novideospamtron.ca

[kamel...@yvelines.pref.gouv.fr]

True, Charles ;-)
So, LSJ, is there a relation of transitivity (is it the exact and
mathematical word ? bijection ? something like this ?? ;-)) between
spent (or lose) blod and burned blood ?
Kamel.

[LSJ]

"salem" <salem_ch...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:obq4u0909moo7jl4f...@4ax.com...

> if i have a vampire in torpor with blood on it, and i am in a
> withdrawal attempt, and someone diablerises or otherwise burns that
> vampire, does it count as a vampire losing blood for the purposes of
> foiling the withdrawal?

Yes.

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/bd34943e0ef7843f

(Don't feel bad about missing this ruling -- it took me about 10
tries to find the right search parameters:
Google: withdraw diablerized author:LSJ
)

The past tense on diablerize is not one of my first choices :-).

--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

[LSJ]

<kamel...@yvelines.pref.gouv.fr> wrote in message
news:1105362030.9...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

> So, LSJ, is there a relation of transitivity (is it the exact and
> mathematical word ? bijection ? something like this ?? ;-)) between
> spent (or lose) blod and burned blood ?

Withdrawal only cares about "lost".

If you have it and then you don't, you've lost it. Burn, have stolen,
spend, whatever -- it all means you lose it.