Soul Gem Trio - Thoughts
Christopher Robert Woods
I am still getting back into V:TES, and I came up with a card trio that
I think would work really well. I don't come up with good card combos,
so I just wanted to share, sure that 99% of you have already thought of
this.
Soul Gem of Etrius on an Inner Circle member.
Golconda
Redeem the Lost Soul
(Hope the next Vamp in your crypt is a 10, or know for sure with the
Nosferatu that lets you look at the top card of your crypt)
You basically pay 2 pool to get a 10 capacity vampire and get
paid 5 blood for it.
Any thoughts on this? Is this wrong for some reason? Is there a
similar combo with better results, or that requires less cards?
Also, is capacity the number at the bottom of the vampire card, or is
it the number of blood counters on the vampire?
Thanks!
--
Christopher Robert Woods - MCSE
fn...@mailroom.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Lasombra
Christopher Robert Woods <fn...@mailroom.com> wrote:
>
> Soul Gem of Etrius on an Inner Circle member.
> Golconda
> Redeem the Lost Soul
Unfortunately this does not work because of Errata to Golconda
from 6/23/98 reproduced below:
Golconda:
Removes the selected vampire from the game instead of burning him.
#
# A vampire finding Golconda isn't destroyed - he simply has chosen
# not to participate in the Jyhad any further.
Therefore, when you Golconda Etrius, he is not burned and
the Soul Gem is not triggered. Also since he is not burned,
you cannot play Redeem the Lost Soul.
The Ruling was to prevent abuse in combination with cards
like Return to Innocence and Soul Gem where you burn your
vampire for extraordinarily good effects.
Keep trying though and welcome back to the night.
Carpe Noctem.
Lasombra
http://members.tripod.com/~Lasombra
Derek S. Ray
<fn...@mailroom.com> wrote:
>I am still getting back into V:TES, and I came up with a card trio that
>I think would work really well. I don't come up with good card combos,
>so I just wanted to share, sure that 99% of you have already thought of
>this.
>
>Soul Gem of Etrius on an Inner Circle member.
>Golconda
>Redeem the Lost Soul
Errata has been issued so that Golconda no longer "burns" the vampire,
it just removes them from the game. so if you Golconda your Soul
Gem'd vamp, the Gem doesn't kick in. I think RtLS would fail as well,
since it specifies "ash heap".
-- Derek
Deafness never kept composers from hearing the music.
It only stopped them hearing the distractions.
LSJ
>
> I am still getting back into V:TES, and I came up with a card trio that
> I think would work really well. I don't come up with good card combos,
> so I just wanted to share, sure that 99% of you have already thought of
> this.
>
> Soul Gem of Etrius on an Inner Circle member.
> Golconda
> Redeem the Lost Soul
>
> Nosferatu that lets you look at the top card of your crypt)
>
> You basically pay 2 pool to get a 10 capacity vampire and get
> paid 5 blood for it.
>
> Any thoughts on this? Is this wrong for some reason? Is there a
> similar combo with better results, or that requires less cards?
Golconda removes the vampire from play instead of burning him, so
Soul Gem won't trigger and Redeem the Lost Soul can't target the
removed vampire. (Golconda errata issued on 23-JUN-1998)
A "similar" combo that works is Minion Tap (for all but one)
followed by an action that costs one blood (Govern, for instance)
modifiers by inferior Daring the Dawn (with the aggravated damage
from the Draing the Dawn burning the acting vampire).
> Also, is capacity the number at the bottom of the vampire card, or is
> it the number of blood counters on the vampire?
The number on the card [1.5.2]
--
LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) V:TES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp
Madman2001
A similar and very aggravating (so to speak) combo I've run up against
is:
Large vampire (of course)
Minion Tap
Golconda
Now, of course, since MT and Golconda are both Masters, it helps if you
have the Parthenon or Anson or whatever-that-political-card-is for two
Master phases a turn. However, this does not seem to be necessary.
The 5th Tradition adds nicely to the mix and Info Highway also helps
since, of course, you simply use the blood gain from MT &/or Golconda
to influence another vampire, etc.
I have seen opponents average a 5-blood-a-turn gain with this trick.
The only way to stop this seems to be a heavy bleed deck or lots of
Sudden Reversals. Am I missing something, or am I just too wimpy?
Madman (looking for advice)
--
Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums
Talkway - http://www.talkway.com - Talk more ways (sm)
ne...@doughty-engineering.co.uk
wrote:
If you are that annoyed with the Minion Tap Golconda issue then just
build a rush deck and kill him before they get to do the combo, or
mind rape and then hiedelburg all the blood off them, hostile
takeovers you know there are lots of ways but golconda is a bitch but
you just have to live with it...
James Coupe
Madman2001 <Mad...@madman.com> writes
>I have seen opponents average a 5-blood-a-turn gain with this trick.
>The only way to stop this seems to be a heavy bleed deck or lots of
>Sudden Reversals. Am I missing something, or am I just too wimpy?
Options - some viable, some less so:
Rush the vampires with potence weenies. Kill, crush, destroy.
Intercept the Fifth Tradition.
Direct Intervention the Fifth Tradition.
Banishment on the vampires he's using.
Sudden Reversal the Minion Tap.
Place an Anathema on the vampire he's using, so that everyone wants to
kill it - better 8 pool to someone, than 48 pool to him, maybe.
Derange the vampire - they cannot play Fifth Tradition if they are not
Princes/Justicars, and they cannot be either if they are !Malks.
Command of the Harpies on any of his princes, to stop the 5th.
Corrupt his vampires away from him.
Use Temptation on the vampires he's using - if at any point you, or
others, can stop his Fifth Tradition, you'll have a vampire on very low
blood, and can use the Temptation counters to get him briefly. Maybe
try committing diablerie with it, or something similar, or clan
impersonate him to a non-camarilla clan, to delay the use of Fifth
Tradition.
Pentex subversion on it, if it's doing the Fifth Tradition trick itself.
Derange with Malkavian Derangement: Paranoia - stop it taking actions.
Fear of Mekhet to hurt a Justicar briefly.
Seeds of Corruption - if it's a twosome doing the thing, one Fifth
Traditioning the other, he'll have to waste an action refilling the
acting one if you hit it with that. Not sure exactly when Seeds of
Corruption hits - it may hit after the refilling of a vampire, so even
if he's doing it himself it may go - Act - Successful Action - Refill -
Burn some blood. Alternatively, it may go - Act - Successful Action -
Burn some blood - Refill - which is a pity, if it is. However, it will
hurt a two-some doing it.
Kindred Restructure yourself away from them - you don't care then.
Play them at their own game - if you can't beat them, join them.
Place Vampiric Disease on them - one less blood is still one less blood
Play Claw/Amaranth - if you can't beat them, eat them.
Use semi-permanent rush cards - like Haven Uncovered and Blood Hunt.
Let other people kill them, if they see it as a problem.
Use vampires like Francois Villon to steal their blood - less blood on a
vampire is less blood to go to their pool.
Rush them any other way you can think of.
--
James Coupe (Prince of Mercia, England)
Vampire: Elder Kindred Network
http://madnessnetwork.hexagon.net http://www.obeah.demon.co.uk
X_Ze...@email.msn.com
list. First you embrace then don't put a skill card on it. Equip it with
the soul gem. Have it commit diablerie. Burn it with a bloodhunt; POOF!
instant vampire at the cost of one of your opponents vampires.
Derek S. Ray
>The best combo I have seen using the soul gem was posted earlier on the
>list. First you embrace then don't put a skill card on it. Equip it with
>the soul gem. Have it commit diablerie. Burn it with a bloodhunt; POOF!
>instant vampire at the cost of one of your opponents vampires.
Soul Gem requires that the vampire on top of your crypt be younger
than the current vampire. An Embraced vampire is a capacity 1
vampire, and therefor an age 1 vampire ... making this trick not work
ever. =)
X_Ze...@email.msn.com
<56E3EB01963517B6.07392B51...@lp.airnews.net>,
lor...@yahoo.com (Derek S. Ray) wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:53:33 GMT, X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote:
>
> >The best combo I have seen using the soul gem was posted earlier on
the
> >list. First you embrace then don't put a skill card on it. Equip it
with
> >the soul gem. Have it commit diablerie. Burn it with a bloodhunt;
POOF!
> >instant vampire at the cost of one of your opponents vampires.
>
> Soul Gem requires that the vampire on top of your crypt be younger
> than the current vampire. An Embraced vampire is a capacity 1
> vampire, and therefor an age 1 vampire ... making this trick not work
> ever. =)
>
Warning this trick is for experienced vampires only.
Do not and I repeat do not put this in a deck loaded with Caitiff.
Otherwise it works everytime (yes, I know the bloodhunt could fail,
and that would prevent it from working).
Madman2001
Well, this is difficult since Mind Rape requires the raped vampire to
be younger than the acting vampire.
Madman
Rob Grau
> On Sat, 15 Jan 2000 X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote:
> > Otherwise it works everytime (yes, I know the bloodhunt could fail,
> > and that would prevent it from working).
>
> Not with an embraced weenie it doesn't. The vampire in *your* crypt has
> to be younger than the vampire of *yours* that you burn. With a 1 point
> weenie, there will never, ever be a 0 point weenie in your crypt to come
> out. That is why it is routinely played with a big vampire with a skill
> card on them, so that they are bigger than the other vampires in your
> crypt.
Well, I for one think that even if Norman's explanation wasn't perfect, the
concept is still pretty cool. Consider the following:
Crypt: 2 Capacity Vampires (So they can pay for embrace)
Vampire embraces. You _will_ have to play a skill card on it. Then equip
the soul gem like Norman suggested, and diablerize an older vampire. (At 2
capacity older vamps aren't hard to find) Before the blood hunt is called,
you get a Master: Discipline Card. You suddenly have a three capacity
vampire, and a crypt full of two capacity vampires. Burn the vampire in the
blood hunt and, viola! a new weanie appears at your service, and you have
rid the underworld of someone else's torporized vampire.
I think it's pretty clever. Normally it takes a master phase action to throw
a skill card on a vamp. This does not require a Master Phase Action, that
adds coolness right there. On the other hand, I don't really see a good way
to abuse this.
Rob Grau
rfg...@eos.ncsu.edu
James Coupe
> Otherwise it works everytime (yes, I know the bloodhunt could fail,
> and that would prevent it from working).
Not with an embraced weenie it doesn't. The vampire in *your* crypt has
to be younger than the vampire of *yours* that you burn. With a 1 point
weenie, there will never, ever be a 0 point weenie in your crypt to come
out. That is why it is routinely played with a big vampire with a skill
card on them, so that they are bigger than the other vampires in your
crypt.
--
James Coupe
Derek S. Ray
>In article
><56E3EB01963517B6.07392B51...@lp.airnews.net>,
> lor...@yahoo.com (Derek S. Ray) wrote:
>> On Fri, 14 Jan 2000 18:53:33 GMT, X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote:
>>
>> >The best combo I have seen using the soul gem was posted earlier on
>the
>> >list. First you embrace then don't put a skill card on it. Equip it
>with
>> >the soul gem. Have it commit diablerie. Burn it with a bloodhunt;
>POOF!
>> >instant vampire at the cost of one of your opponents vampires.
>>
>> Soul Gem requires that the vampire on top of your crypt be younger
>> than the current vampire. An Embraced vampire is a capacity 1
>> vampire, and therefor an age 1 vampire ... making this trick not work
>> ever. =)
>>
>Damn your infernal number counting.
>Warning this trick is for experienced vampires only.
>Do not and I repeat do not put this in a deck loaded with Caitiff.
>Otherwise it works everytime (yes, I know the bloodhunt could fail,
>and that would prevent it from working).
Still missing it. Embraced vamps are capacity/age 1. No vamp is
younger than 1. It's totally failing to work, currently. If you slap
a skill card on it, that'd be neat as it'd then be age 2 and could
Soul Gem out some 1 caps, although why you'd want to get 1 caps for
free I don't know.
Not to mention you have to put someone in torpor first. And have
diablerie be SUCCESSFUL and not intercepted.
X_Ze...@email.msn.com
> >> >The best combo I have seen using the soul gem was posted earlier
on
> >the
> >> >list. First you embrace then don't put a skill card on it. Equip
it
> >with
> >> >the soul gem. Have it commit diablerie. Burn it with a bloodhunt;
> >POOF!
> >> >instant vampire at the cost of one of your opponents vampires.
> >>
> >> Soul Gem requires that the vampire on top of your crypt be younger
> >> than the current vampire. An Embraced vampire is a capacity 1
> >> vampire, and therefor an age 1 vampire ... making this trick not
work
> >> ever. =)
> >>
> >Damn your infernal number counting.
> >Warning this trick is for experienced vampires only.
> >Do not and I repeat do not put this in a deck loaded with Caitiff.
> >Otherwise it works everytime (yes, I know the bloodhunt could fail,
> >and that would prevent it from working).
>
> Still missing it. Embraced vamps are capacity/age 1. No vamp is
> younger than 1. It's totally failing to work, currently. If you slap
> a skill card on it, that'd be neat as it'd then be age 2 and could
> Soul Gem out some 1 caps, although why you'd want to get 1 caps for
> free I don't know.
I believe I explained it incorrectly. You embrace then you put a
skill card on the embrace. You are supposed to use a crypt full of size
2 vampire. Then get a skill card making the embrace a size 3, which in
turn makes them older than the vamps in the crypt. In my play group
people hit torpor on a regular basis, and it is not unusual for them to
get diablerized if they stay there for more than the current turn.
In response to Rob Grau above the above example is difficult at best to
abuse, but, in the interum, I was thinking about a cap 3 potence deck,
that would use the soul gem. There are nine cap 3's with potence and 3
cap 2's. In theory you would build a potence rush deck with about 6 or
7 potence skill cards. Use the soul gem on a cap 3( either a normal cap
3, a cap 2 with a skill card or a embrace with two skill cards) to
diablerize a vamp in torpor. POOF! It gains a generation and gets
burned, and the soul gem does its thing. If the soul gem comes out on a
size two then you transfer it to a size three. Rinse wash and repeat.
I was thinking of using a standard potence rush a the backbone of this
deck (bum's rushes,undead strength, torn signposts, and disarm) and
maybe throwing in a few amaranths just to make it faster. Any opinions?
(like I need to ask)
Norman S. Brown Jr.
X_Zealot
Archon of the Swamp
radiophonic oddity
On Mon, 17 Jan 2000 X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote:
> In response to Rob Grau above the above example is difficult at best
> to abuse, but, in the interum, I was thinking about a cap 3 potence
> deck, that would use the soul gem. [ snip ] In theory you would build
> a potence rush deck with about 6 or 7 potence skill cards. Use the
> soul gem on a cap 3( either a normal cap 3, a cap 2 with a skill card
> or a embrace with two skill cards) to diablerize a vamp in torpor.
Why would a potence rush deck want to commit diablerie? Why not go beat
up another vampire instead? If all yer vamps have 0 blood, they tend to
stay in torpor...
-davey!
James Coupe
> Why would a potence rush deck want to commit diablerie? Why not go beat
> up another vampire instead? If all yer vamps have 0 blood, they tend to
> stay in torpor...
It does indeed seem like a lot of time and wasted actions for something
that you could do a rush action instead of.
--
James Coupe
X_Ze...@email.msn.com
> > Why would a potence rush deck want to commit diablerie? Why not go
beat
> > up another vampire instead? If all yer vamps have 0 blood, they
tend to
> > stay in torpor...
>
> It does indeed seem like a lot of time and wasted actions for
something
> that you could do a rush action instead of.
My thought on that is to prevent them from coming back out of torpor and
refilling themselves. A vampire in torpor in only temporarily out of
play whilst a burned vamp is a gone pecan (unless necromancy is
involved). I have on occasion seen people rescue someone elses vampire
from torpor to slow an aggressive rush deck down.