Bug? - Can monsters squeeze onto a boulder square?
Janis Papanagnou
The wererat deliberately jumps onto a polymorph trap!
Specify unknown object by cursor? [ynq] (q)
Please move the cursor to an unknown object.
(For instructions type a ?)
0 an iron ball or boulder (boulder) Pick an object.
The polytrap was covered by a boulder.
Janis
Ralf Damaschke
> Can monsters squeeze onto a boulder square, or is that a bug?
>
> The wererat deliberately jumps onto a polymorph trap!
> Specify unknown object by cursor? [ynq] (q)
> Please move the cursor to an unknown object.
> (For instructions type a ?)
> 0 an iron ball or boulder (boulder) Pick an object.
Have you made sure that the boulder isn't the former wererat?
-- Ralf
Janis Papanagnou
The boulder was an/the object covering the polytrap. The wererat
in his former form was most probably the giant that stepped onto
that trap before and who lost his carried boulder that way. Is
that what you were asking?
I assumed (not perfectly sure) that the wererat first has to move
away from the trap to be able to "jump onto" the trap. - Player
characters can #sit without moving, I think, but is this possible
for monsters to do as well?
Janis
TJR
wrote:
Certain monsters can use a polytrap even if it's covered by a boulder,
namely: very small ones, rock throwers, phasers, chameleons, and stuck
or immobile ones. See http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Muse.c#line1590 to
1608 and 1799 to 1813.
lilmouse
wrote:
> > that what you were asking?
>
> that decides to look like a boulder. You probably don't want to check
> this by trying to move to the trap, but you could throw something in
> that direction and see if a mimic reveals itself.
That was my assumption; I thought it was well phrased, too :)
(s)earching is also an option.
--LWM
TJR
There is no need to guess wildly: The wererat in rat form can use the
polytrap despite the boulder on top. See my posting from yesterday if
you want to know which other types of monsters can do so.
Janis Papanagnou
> On 25 Okt., 00:48, Janis Papanagnou <janis_papanag...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Can monsters squeeze onto a boulder square, or is that a bug?
>>
>> The wererat deliberately jumps onto a polymorph trap!
>> Specify unknown object by cursor? [ynq] (q)
>> Please move the cursor to an unknown object.
>> (For instructions type a ?)
>> 0 an iron ball or boulder (boulder) Pick an object.
>>
>> The polytrap was covered by a boulder.
>
> namely: very small ones, rock throwers, phasers, chameleons, and stuck
> or immobile ones. See http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Muse.c#line1590 to
> 1608 and 1799 to 1813.
That's interesting, and it seems to be inconsistent since monsters cannot
pass boulders, as far as I noticed.
Thanks for clarifying.
Janis
Ralf Damaschke
> On 25/10/10 10:07, Ralf Damaschke wrote:
>> Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Can monsters squeeze onto a boulder square, or is that a bug?
>>>
>>> The wererat deliberately jumps onto a polymorph trap!
>>> Specify unknown object by cursor? [ynq] (q)
>>> Please move the cursor to an unknown object.
>>> (For instructions type a ?)
>>> 0 an iron ball or boulder (boulder) Pick an object.
>>
>> Have you made sure that the boulder isn't the former wererat?
>
> The boulder was an/the object covering the polytrap. The wererat
> in his former form was most probably the giant that stepped onto
> that trap before and who lost his carried boulder that way. Is
> that what you were asking?
As others already have noted I suspected the wererat to have
polymorphed into a mimic. It did not occur to me that very small
monsters can jump into a boulder-covered polymorph trap. Seems
that I will have to be a bit more cautious even after I pushed a
boulder on that trap in the mines.
-- Ralf
TJR
> As others already have noted I suspected the wererat to have
> polymorphed into a mimic. It did not occur to me that very small
> monsters can jump into a boulder-covered polymorph trap. Seems
> that I will have to be a bit more cautious even after I pushed a
> boulder on that trap in the mines.
The same thing happened to me yesterday: I got a jabberwock on my
farming level (quest home, while I was XP4).
Perhaps I should deposit a potion of polymorph on the trap and hope
the new morph picks it up right away, in addition to the boulder and
the cursed junk object that keeps pet titans away. If a monster
polymorphs itself with a potion or wand, the result won't be out-of-
depth, as opposed to with a trap.
JoaoSantos
I thought only wimpy&&intelligent monsters quaffed !oP...
As for keeping the monsters away from the trap, I expect an Elbereth
with something on top would do the trick for non-blind monsters (for
literate heroes, so too bad for you, TJR, get back to school).
This assuming the player wants to preserve the trap, as opposed to
getting entirely rid of it by either digging a pit or triggering
him/herself.
solidsnail
TJR
> > Perhaps I should deposit a potion of polymorph on the trap and hope
> > the new morph picks it up right away, in addition to the boulder and
> I thought only wimpy&&intelligent monsters quaffed !oP...
I see nothing in the code to keep strong monsters from polymorphing
themselves. Indeed, my pet winged gargoyle deilberately flew onto a
polytrap in my current game.
> This assuming the player wants to preserve the trap, as opposed to
> getting entirely rid of it by either digging a pit or triggering
> him/herself.
That is indeed the underlying assumption. A high-conduct pacifist
usually needs at least one known, conveniently located polytrap to
improve pets. Without, you can't go much below level 10.
Pat Rankin
> On 26 Okt., 17:16, JoaoSantos <joao.s.san...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I thought only wimpy&&intelligent monsters quaffed !oP...
>
> I see nothing in the code to keep strong monsters from polymorphing
> themselves. Indeed, my pet winged gargoyle deilberately flew onto a
> polytrap in my current game.
All three ways that monster movement might choose to
voluntarily polymorph (move onto trap, zap wand at self,
quaff potion) include a check for monstr[monster_index] < 6.
Winged gargoyles are higher than that threshold, so I'm not
sure what happened there.
The usual reason a strong pet polymorphs is by eating
a shape-changer's corpse, but winged gargoyles don't eat so
that wouldn't apply in this case.
TJR
Reviewing the TTYrec, it turns out the winged gargoyle had morphed
into a homunculus before it deliberately flew onto the trap. Though I
still don't understand why it wanted to step on the trap in the first
place. Perhaps I was just unlucky with the "monsters avoid traps"
code.
Turn 55685, http://alt.org/nethack/userdata/t/tjr6/ttyrec/2010-10-26.02:32:03.ttyrec.