Wishes for Barbarians
Red Bandit
I've gotten some really great help from rgrn previously, and thought I
could beg for some more help. *mild spoiler alert*
My chaotic human barbarian has finished the Quest, killed Medusa, and
made the obligatory first wish with the castle wand. I had reflection
and MR, but I wished for +3 SDSM, and got +0 mail. Now I'm considering
charging the wand up and getting some more wishes...
I've got Stormbringer (unknown, probably positive enchantment after
being enchanted once blind).
+3 Cleaver
+2 gauntlets of dexterity
cursed ring of warning
uncursed ring of conflict
A ton of unIDed rings and wands and scrolls.
2 magic markers
BoHolding
Blessed unihorn
Bell of Open
3 ? Of taming
Wand of polypile
I've got an AC of -15 after a rust monster got through the grease.
Pretty much all intrinsics including TC
Now an encounter with an archlich makes me want to genocide them. It's
downstairs waiting for me, I'm sure. However, the master mind flayer
it summoned made me forget which scroll to use exactly.
I ran away from the L , and had to remap my way back up to the only
other altar on level 3 to re-BCU ID several items and new loot.
Any suggestions for good wishes... Is it a waste here to wish for a
blessed scroll of Identify?
TJR
> Hey
> I've gotten some really great help from rgrn previously, and thought I
> could beg for some more help. *mild spoiler alert*
> downstairs waiting for me, I'm sure. However, the master mind flayer
> it summoned made me forget which scroll to use exactly.
> I ran away from the L , and had to remap my way back up to the only
> other altar on level 3 to re-BCU ID several items and new loot.
> Any suggestions for good wishes... Is it a waste here to wish for a
> blessed scroll of Identify?
Go through the ascension run checklist. Do you have a portal detection
method?
I'd rather not wish for known scrolls directly. You can check your
list of discoveries with the \ command. If you known identify, wish
for a blessed magic marker, blank some scroll, and write it yourself.
What to wish for really depends on your playing style and what you
already have. There is spoiler at http://nh.gmuf.com/wish.html and the
wiki entry at http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Wish#What_to_wish_for .
Personally, I enjoy wishing for a ring of polymorph control and a wand
of polymorph so I can run around as a master mind flayer. It's
amazingly effective.
Janis Papanagnou
>
> Now an encounter with an archlich makes me want to genocide them. It's
> downstairs waiting for me, I'm sure. However, the master mind flayer
> it summoned made me forget which scroll to use exactly.
> I ran away from the L , and had to remap my way back up to the only
> other altar on level 3 to re-BCU ID several items and new loot.
> Any suggestions for good wishes... Is it a waste here to wish for a
> blessed scroll of Identify?
If you have forgotten the scroll of identify you could wish for *two*
of them. Otherwise, if you just run out of scrolls of identify, it is
better to wish for a magic marker and write them yourself. That has
the advantage that you may re-identify some more interesting items in
your inventory. Another option is to just wish for two blessed scrolls
of genocide, in case that you want to focus on the genocide and get
one or two more of those scrolls in addition to the scrolls that you
already have.
Janis
James
wrote:
If I've forgotten the scroll of identify, but know that I had
one, I'd price id the scrolls I have. (Supposing, of course,
there was still a shopkeeper left. But I generally try to
ensure that there will be.)
--
James Kanze
TJR
If you know you have a scroll if ID at hand, but you don't know which
it is, just class-name all scrolls. Then you can write ID with 100%
chance of success.
Red Bandit
I've forgotten identify, and already have 2 magic markers. I think I'm
gonna go with the amulet of second chances cause I've never gotten so
far before.
I'm really torn between life saving and speed boots. I have zapped
myself with speed monster a few times and have drunk a few potions of
speed monster (2 uncursed, 1 unknown). Any thoughts?
I'd also love a wand of enlightenment.
And to relearn the scroll of ID because I knew everything from a
throne on the quest and now I know nothing.
And also I want a good pet because the amusement of a pet chameleon is
starting to wear thin. And a magic whistle would be nice too...
Ok. My cognitive dissonance has been aired. Thanks again!
David Damerell
>If you have forgotten the scroll of identify you could wish for *two*
>of them. Otherwise, if you just run out of scrolls of identify, it is
>better to wish for a magic marker and write them yourself.
I would always prefer wishing for the marker if my Luck was maxed. It
won't take many marker charges to hit the ~1/3 chance of writing one.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
Clown shoes. I hope that doesn't bother you.
Today is Monday, July.
Tomorrow will be Tuesday, July.
Janis Papanagnou
> [wishing]
> I'm really torn between life saving and speed boots.
I prefer the extra speed from speed boots for better overall performance,
but if you want to be safe from an unexpected death, the amulet may suit
you better.
> I have zapped
> myself with speed monster a few times and have drunk a few potions of
> speed monster (2 uncursed, 1 unknown). Any thoughts?
Zapping oneself with speed makes you "permanent" fast (but not as fast as
with the boots.
> I'd also love a wand of enlightenment.
Why? You should already know what intrinsics you have. (Usually not worth
a wish, but a blessed potion of enlightenment would at least also boost
your Int and Wis.)
Janis
APLer
news:159ed697-29ca-4e01...@z34g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
Standard three: grey dragon scale mail (+5 blessed rustproof is the
phrase you use - it won't necessarily give exactly *that*, but you will
get a) uncursed and b)>-1 enchantment), Gauntlets of power (if you're
Strength is <25 (marinally better than 18/** - there are no strengths
from 19-24 in nethack and 18/00 is just one increment up from 18),
it's needed and you can always increase your Strength while wearing
them. The third is of course speed boots. Same exact phrase as the mail.
James
> Red Bandit <redban...@gmail.com> wrote
> innews:159ed697-29ca-4e01...@z34g2000pro.googlegroups.com:
You will either get the enchantment you wish for, or 0 (never
-1---unless you wish for negative enchantment); the probability
of getting the wished for enchantment goes down the higher the
wished for enchantment. Generally, wishing for +2 or +3 gives
you the best results on the average.
As for gray dragon scales: there are two combinations that work
well: gray dragon scales and an amulet of reflection, or silver
and a cloak of magic resistence. Since a barbarian probably
needs a robe to use even low level spells, I'd generally go for
the former, but given that he already has silver, I'd give
serious consideration to the latter.
> Gauntlets of power (if you're Strength is <25 (marinally
> better than 18/** - there are no strengths from 19-24 in
> nethack and 18/00 is just one increment up from 18), it's
> needed and you can always increase your Strength while wearing
> them.
Gauntlets of power interfere with spell casting (and there are
typically a few low level spells you want to cast, even as a
barbarian), and the difference between 18/** and 25 strength is
marginal. If I happen to get guantlets of power in the early
game, before my strength it raised, I might use them, but never
in end game.
> The third is of course speed boots. Same exact phrase as
> the mail.
I tend to prefer speed boots as well, but there are good
arguments for boots of jumping. I'll generally take whichever I
get first---if I've neither before the castle, my wish will
generally be for speed boots (but I'm in the process of
reevaluating that---I got boots of jumping by chance in the
current game, and they've prooved invaliable in keeping distance
between me and mind flayers, while I kill them with ranged
attacks). Again, however, *don't* try for +5---you're very
unlikely to get it.
--
James Kanze
APLer
news:df1c70fe-7337-427a...@j8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> On Aug 2, 11:13 pm, APLer <AP...@floor.tilde> wrote:
>> Red Bandit <redban...@gmail.com> wrote
>> innews:159ed697-29ca-4e01...@z34g2000pro.googlegroups.c
>> om:
>
>> > Now an encounter with an archlich makes me want to genocide
>> > them. It's downstairs waiting for me, I'm sure. However, the
>> > master mind flayer it summoned made me forget which scroll
>> > to use exactly. I ran away from the L , and had to remap my
>> > way back up to the only other altar on level 3 to re-BCU ID
>> > several items and new loot. Any suggestions for good
>> > wishes... Is it a waste here to wish for a blessed scroll of
>> > Identify?
>
>> Standard three: grey dragon scale mail (+5 blessed rustproof
>> is the phrase you use - it won't necessarily give exactly
>> *that*, but you will get a) uncursed and b)>-1 enchantment),
>
> You will either get the enchantment you wish for, or 0 (never
> -1---unless you wish for negative enchantment); the probability
> of getting the wished for enchantment goes down the higher the
> wished for enchantment. Generally, wishing for +2 or +3 gives
> you the best results on the average.
>
And that contradicts what I said how?
> As for gray dragon scales: there are two combinations that work
> well: gray dragon scales and an amulet of reflection, or silver
> and a cloak of magic resistence. Since a barbarian probably
> needs a robe to use even low level spells, I'd generally go for
> the former, but given that he already has silver, I'd give
> serious consideration to the latter.
>
>> Gauntlets of power (if you're Strength is <25 (marinally
>> better than 18/** - there are no strengths from 19-24 in
>> nethack and 18/00 is just one increment up from 18), it's
>> needed and you can always increase your Strength while wearing
>> them.
>
> Gauntlets of power interfere with spell casting (and there are
> typically a few low level spells you want to cast, even as a
> barbarian), and the difference between 18/** and 25 strength is
> marginal. If I happen to get guantlets of power in the early
> game, before my strength it raised, I might use them, but never
> in end game.
>
*if* you have 18/** at such a point. Very unlikely. He hasn't even been
in hell yet by the looks of it.
>> The third is of course speed boots. Same exact phrase as
>> the mail.
>
> I tend to prefer speed boots as well, but there are good
> arguments for boots of jumping. I'll generally take whichever I
> get first---if I've neither before the castle, my wish will
> generally be for speed boots (but I'm in the process of
> reevaluating that---I got boots of jumping by chance in the
> current game, and they've prooved invaliable in keeping distance
> between me and mind flayers, while I kill them with ranged
> attacks). Again, however, *don't* try for +5---you're very
> unlikely to get it.
>
But if you don't try, you never will.
Thomas Pornin
> if your Strength is <25 (marinally better than 18/** - there are no
> strengths from 19-24 in nethack and 18/00 is just one increment up
> from 18
Actually there is almost no difference between 18/** and 25. For
instance, you get the same to-hit (+3) and damage (+6) bonus with both.
The only practical differences is that with a strength of 25, you can
throw Mjollnir (if you happen to have Mjollnir, or course), and there
can be a slight bonus to the carrying capacity (but the carrying
capacity maxes out at 1000, which implies that there is no carrying
bonus to get if you already have a strength of 18/** and a constitution
of 17 or more).
Strengths 19-24 _do_ exist. You can get them by having strength 18/**
and then putting on rings of gain strength. Even 24 does not allow you
to throw Mjollnir, so getting such strength is futile. However, if you
are lucky enough (by playing with scrolls of charging and rings of gain
strength), you can achieve a strength of 25 through rings, thus
unlocking Mjollnir-throwing without using gauntlets (Mjollnir is not
picky: it wants Str 25, not necessarily gauntlets of power).
Gauntlets of power are a problem for spellcasters -- it seriously
interferes with the spellcasting success rates. In the end-game, once
18/** is achieved (this is not that hard; I often get to that point
before reaching the Castle), gauntlets of dexterity are a better choice
(unless you want to be a Mjollnir-throwing Valkyrie, which is fun but
has a few caveats). Range-attackers (e.g. rangers, rogues...) also
prefer gauntlets of dexterity.
Of course, the strength-impaired races (orcs, gnomes, elves) will love
the gauntlets of power (if not trying to cast spells).
--Thomas Pornin
Red Bandit
think I've got 'em all... I never knew the potion boosted stats.
Armor-wise, I've got SDSM and a cloak of MR. My +2 dwarven iron helm
is rusty, and my +2 iron shoes are rustproof and very rusty.
Everything is greased because of the 2 cans of grease I found.
My STR is 18/54. I fell through the trapdoor in the castle and
successfully fought my way back up to the castle. I've never survived
that fall before. Last time, HeLL was *filled* with ghosts. Not this
time, for reasons unknown. In hell, the archlich found me. It summoned
a master mind flayer, which made my INT fall to 3, before I escaped
upstairs. Of course, the lich followed me. It cursed my ring of
warning, my luckstone, and a few other items. I panicked, and read a
(now cursed) scroll of tele. I ended up on d lvl 13, with a strange
sense of Deja vu. I applied the unihorn a few times to restore my
genius-level INT of 7.lol
Anyway, I'm gonna close my eyes and make a wish. Wish me luck
please? ;)
TJR
> genius-level INT of 7.lol
Perhaps the easiest way to increase int is blessed fountain hunting.
Make sure you have a sack (not BoH) for items you don't want cursed,
and your in-game Luck is at least 4.
> Anyway, I'm gonna close my eyes and make a wish. Wish me luck
> please? ;)
First, stow away your cursed Luckstone, and check* your in-game Luck
if possible. If it's negative, you might not get wishes from your wand
at all.
* e.g. sacrifice something on a co-aligned altar, get enlightened, or
throw enough named / identified valueable gems at a co-aligned
unicorn. Details at http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Luck.
APLer
*never* meless with mindflayers or rust monsters. There's several others
in that category as well. Nagas as well I think.
APLer
Arrgh. That should have read: "*never* melee with..." of course.
APLer
news:4c580d1e$0$12697$426a...@news.free.fr:
> According to APLer <AP...@floor.tilde>:
>> if your Strength is <25 (marinally better than 18/** - there are no
>> strengths from 19-24 in nethack and 18/00 is just one increment up
>> from 18
>
> Actually there is almost no difference between 18/** and 25. For
> instance, you get the same to-hit (+3) and damage (+6) bonus with
> both. The only practical differences is that with a strength of 25,
> you can throw Mjollnir (if you happen to have Mjollnir, or course),
> and there can be a slight bonus to the carrying capacity (but the
> carrying capacity maxes out at 1000, which implies that there is no
> carrying bonus to get if you already have a strength of 18/** and a
> constitution of 17 or more).
>
> Strengths 19-24 _do_ exist. You can get them by having strength 18/**
> and then putting on rings of gain strength. Even 24 does not allow you
> to throw Mjollnir, so getting such strength is futile. However, if you
> are lucky enough (by playing with scrolls of charging and rings of
> gain strength), you can achieve a strength of 25 through rings, thus
> unlocking Mjollnir-throwing without using gauntlets (Mjollnir is not
> picky: it wants Str 25, not necessarily gauntlets of power).
>
> Gauntlets of power are a problem for spellcasters -- it seriously
> interferes with the spellcasting success rates.
Yes, *really* important for a Barbarian at all times. I'm sorry, but
making a Barbarian do more damage with each hit and doing them faster
and safer (grey dragon mail) is *precisely* what you *want* to improve.
Taking off gloves to cast the occasional spell is somehow going to be
slower than removing the shield, metal boots and iron help somehow?
In the end-game, once
> 18/** is achieved (this is not that hard; I often get to that point
> before reaching the Castle),
Really? how many turns would that be? 40K or so? I frequently take 30K
to get to hell and rarely if ever have 18/00 strength. In fact I usually
only get it later as I'm dropping down the levels to the vibrating square.
Giants take a *lot* to digest and tinning kits are *extremely* rare. That's
wish #4 BTW.
> gauntlets of dexterity are a better choice
Dex is already maximized by the time of the quest. raising it to 19 or
20 does little except make picking locks easier anyways.
> (unless you want to be a Mjollnir-throwing Valkyrie, which is fun but
> has a few caveats). Range-attackers (e.g. rangers, rogues...) also
> prefer gauntlets of dexterity.
>
Again, it's a Barbarian the OP is playing.
> Of course, the strength-impaired races (orcs, gnomes, elves) will love
> the gauntlets of power (if not trying to cast spells).
>
If you *mean* the spell casters - elves are not necessarily spell
casters - than a cornuthaum would surely be more useful. Int of 23
anyone?
G-Mon
news:Xns9DC9BD5...@127.0.0.1:
> *never* meless with mindflayers or rust monsters. There's several
> others in that category as well. Nagas as well I think.
Floating eyes. Gas spores, especially if low on health. Anything with a
passive attack you don't resist (e.g. blue jellies if not cold
resistant).
Rust monsters are trivial with rustproofing and/or junk weapons. Oddly,
you'll probably *want* to melee something like a disenchanter, but only
if you have MC3 and a junk weapon (or remove your gloves, if going for
weaponless conduct).
G-Mon
> If you *mean* the spell casters - elves are not necessarily spell
> casters - than a cornuthaum would surely be more useful. Int of 23
> anyone?
Are you confusing a cornuthaum with a helm of brilliance, by any
chance? You can only get to 23 INT with a +5 HoB and maxed natural INT
(up this to 25 for elves), and a cornuthaum isn't good for non-Wizards.
APLer
news:Xns9DC9DBA5B12Cgm...@81.169.183.62:
Yeah, disenchanter may have been the one hiding in the fog partially
obscuring that part of my brain at the time. Floating eyes - while true
aren't precisely relevant to the point I was making. Besides, you can
safely melee with them wearing a blindfold or towel. I've done it myself
plenty of times when I had no quiver. That first floating eye you get to
eat when your pet is paralyzed is just too important.
Thomas Pornin
> > 18/** is achieved (this is not that hard; I often get to that point
> > before reaching the Castle),
>
> Really? how many turns would that be? 40K or so?
I do not really know, since I do not print turns out (I consider the
turn count to be slightly cheating -- it makes it too easy to estimate
prayer timeout). Since I usually ascend in about 60K turns when I map
out the entirety of Gehennom (the hard way, not magic mapping), I think
30K turns would be a fair estimate.
> Giants take a *lot* to digest and tinning kits are *extremely* rare. That's
> wish #4 BTW.
Apart from tinning kits (which appear now and then, or can be polypiled
for), one also finds the occasional tin of spinach. As for digestion, an
amulet of magical breathing works wonder (the Tourist I was playing
yesterday has not gone below dungeon level 15 and is already at 18/92
strength, thanks to an amulet of magical breathing).
Digestion can also be made faster with boots of jumping (about 12.5
nutrition points per jump on average); since giant corpse have
nutritional value 750, it takes only 60 jumps to fully digest such a
corpse. If the character is hungry at the time it encounters a pack of
three giants, then he can eat all three in a relatively short time, if
he does so in the right order (i.e. eating each giant before killing the
next) and jumps a lot in between.
Spellcasting also consumes nutrition quite fast. Spell-induced hunger
works regardless of whether the spell succeeded or not ! For a character
on a diet, it is actually better to fail at casting the spell, since
this halves energy consumption. For instance, a level-4 spell will cost
40 nutrition per cast, but only 10 energy points when failed.
A more random strategy involve self-polymorphing as a "new man" (because
this resets current nutrition level to a random value below the
"satiated" level, allowing for safely eating one more giant corpse).
> If you *mean* the spell casters - elves are not necessarily spell
> casters - than a cornuthaum would surely be more useful. Int of 23
> anyone?
You are confusing the cornuthaum with the helm of brillance. That's
not the same kind of hat. Also, Elves get a maximum intelligence of
20 "naturally" so thay can realistically aim for 24 or 25 with a
helm of brilliance.
--Thomas Pornin
James
> On 03 Aug 2010, APLer <AP...@floor.tilde> wrote
> > *never* meless with mindflayers or rust monsters. There's several
> > others in that category as well. Nagas as well I think.
> Floating eyes. Gas spores, especially if low on health. Anything with a
> passive attack you don't resist (e.g. blue jellies if not cold
> resistant).
I wouldn't recommend meleeing with nymphs, either. Unless
you've got some cursed armor you want to get rid of, and have
dropped everything else.
> Rust monsters are trivial with rustproofing and/or junk weapons.
All of the artifact weapons are rustproof, I think. And IIRC,
elven weapons are made of wood, and don't rust. But take off
any metal armor before the encounter.
> Oddly, you'll probably *want* to melee something like
> a disenchanter, but only if you have MC3 and a junk weapon (or
> remove your gloves, if going for weaponless conduct).
You *can* melee with a disenchanter, under certain
circumstances, but why would you want to. They're one of the
reasons I insist on learning the spell of magic missles, even as
a barbarian.
--
James Kanze
James
> According to APLer <AP...@floor.tilde>:
> > if your Strength is <25 (marinally better than 18/** - there are no
> > strengths from 19-24 in nethack and 18/00 is just one increment up
> > from 18
> Actually there is almost no difference between 18/** and 25. For
> instance, you get the same to-hit (+3) and damage (+6) bonus with both.
> The only practical differences is that with a strength of 25, you can
> throw Mjollnir (if you happen to have Mjollnir, or course),
Always, or only if you're a Valk?
[...]
> Gauntlets of power are a problem for spellcasters -- it seriously
> interferes with the spellcasting success rates. In the end-game, once
> 18/** is achieved (this is not that hard; I often get to that point
> before reaching the Castle), gauntlets of dexterity are a better choice
> (unless you want to be a Mjollnir-throwing Valkyrie, which is fun but
> has a few caveats). Range-attackers (e.g. rangers, rogues...) also
> prefer gauntlets of dexterity.
And don't forget that spells are definitely the best solution
for disenchantersAnd don't forget that spells are definitely the
best solution for disenchanters. Even a Barb can get magic
missles to 0% failure, if he works at it, and it only takes
about two shots for the disenchanter to go down.
--
James Kanze
James
> Thomas Pornin <por...@bolet.org> wrote
> innews:4c580d1e$0$12697$426a...@news.free.fr:
> > According to APLer <AP...@floor.tilde>:
> > Gauntlets of power are a problem for spellcasters -- it seriously
> > interferes with the spellcasting success rates.
> Yes, *really* important for a Barbarian at all times.
Not at all times, but certainly if there's any chance of
a disenchanter showing up.
> I'm sorry, but making a Barbarian do more damage with each hit
Which as has been pointed out, guantlets of power won't do.
> and doing them faster and safer (grey dragon mail)
Gray or silver. No one is arguing against dragon mail.
> is *precisely* what you *want* to improve. Taking off gloves
> to cast the occasional spell is somehow going to be slower
> than removing the shield, metal boots and iron help somehow?
Barbarians can twoweapon, which means no shield. The penalty
for metal boots is minor.
> > In the end-game, once 18/** is achieved (this is not that
> > hard; I often get to that point before reaching the Castle),
> Really? how many turns would that be? 40K or so? I frequently
> take 30K to get to hell and rarely if ever have 18/00
> strength.
As a barbarian, you'll often *start* with more than 18/00.
> In fact I usually only get it later as I'm dropping down the
> levels to the vibrating square. Giants take a *lot* to digest
> and tinning kits are *extremely* rare. That's wish #4 BTW.
You do have to manage giants, if you want to get maximum
effects. But there are other ways to improve your strength.
> > gauntlets of dexterity are a better choice
> Dex is already maximized by the time of the quest. raising it to 19 or
> 20 does little except make picking locks easier anyways.
Dex is maximized, but not strength? For a barbarian?
--
James Kanze
Doug Freyburger
> "G-Mon" <gmon5...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
> > Rust monsters are trivial with rustproofing and/or junk weapons.
>
> All of the artifact weapons are rustproof, I think.
The gift ones. There are other ways for artifacts to arrive in the
game.
> And IIRC,
> elven weapons are made of wood, and don't rust. But take off
> any metal armor before the encounter.
Leather helmet, cloak, gloves and boots and attack with wooden
weapons works great for rust monsters and black puddings.
It's a reason to prefer dexterity over power, and elven equipment
over dwarvish. It's a combination that sucks when you're faced
with a brown pudding.
> You *can* melee with a disenchanter, under certain
> circumstances, but why would you want to. They're one of the
> reasons I insist on learning the spell of magic missles, even as
> a barbarian.
Even missile combat can suck against a disenchanter. Start
with 20 blessed +5 elven daggers. End with 5 of them +2, 2 of
them +3, one of them +4 and a death disenchanter. Argh!
APLer
news:f0ba6524-d890-4855...@x25g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:
> On Aug 4, 3:34 am, APLer <AP...@floor.tilde> wrote:
>> Thomas Pornin <por...@bolet.org> wrote
>> innews:4c580d1e$0$12697$426a...@news.free.fr:
>> > According to APLer <AP...@floor.tilde>:
>
>> > Gauntlets of power are a problem for spellcasters -- it seriously
>> > interferes with the spellcasting success rates.
>
>> Yes, *really* important for a Barbarian at all times.
>
> Not at all times, but certainly if there's any chance of
> a disenchanter showing up.
>
>> I'm sorry, but making a Barbarian do more damage with each hit
>
> Which as has been pointed out, guantlets of power won't do.
>
No, it certainly has *not*. The OP has not posted what his strength is.
>> and doing them faster and safer (grey dragon mail)
>
> Gray or silver. No one is arguing against dragon mail.
>
>> is *precisely* what you *want* to improve. Taking off gloves
>> to cast the occasional spell is somehow going to be slower
>> than removing the shield, metal boots and iron help somehow?
>
> Barbarians can twoweapon, which means no shield. The penalty
> for metal boots is minor.
>
You're assuming that he is to remove one piece of armor and there's
still the helm anyways.
>> > In the end-game, once 18/** is achieved (this is not that
>> > hard; I often get to that point before reaching the Castle),
>
>> Really? how many turns would that be? 40K or so? I frequently
>> take 30K to get to hell and rarely if ever have 18/00
>> strength.
>
> As a barbarian, you'll often *start* with more than 18/00.
>
Which is 100 points from 18/** and 1-5 for each tin of spinach/giant
corpse/royal jelly.
>> In fact I usually only get it later as I'm dropping down the
>> levels to the vibrating square. Giants take a *lot* to digest
>> and tinning kits are *extremely* rare. That's wish #4 BTW.
>
> You do have to manage giants, if you want to get maximum
> effects. But there are other ways to improve your strength.
>
Up to 18 yes. But beyond that the nutrition from anything other than
royal jelly is considerable.
>> > gauntlets of dexterity are a better choice
>
>> Dex is already maximized by the time of the quest. raising it to 19
>> or 20 does little except make picking locks easier anyways.
>
> Dex is maximized, but not strength? For a barbarian?
>
Yes, I virtually always have dex at 18 when I start to play a human
barbarian.
Pat Rankin
> On Aug 3, 1:35 pm, Thomas Pornin <por...@bolet.org> wrote:
>> Actually there is almost no difference between 18/** and 25. For
>> instance, you get the same to-hit (+3) and damage (+6) bonus with both.
>> The only practical differences is that with a strength of 25, you can
>> throw Mjollnir (if you happen to have Mjollnir, or course),
>
> Always, or only if you're a Valk?
[...]
You need strength 25 to be able to throw Mjollnir,
and anyone which such strength can do so regardless of role.
Thrown Mjollnir will only return to you if you're a Valkyrie.
Red Bandit
lich who summoned a master mindflayer, a cockatrice and a black
dragon. The commotion attracted Asmodeus, who killed the 'trice by
repeatedly zapping me with a wand of fire. The bolt of reflected fire
was his undoing. Defiantly, with an INT of 3, I thwacked the flayer,
then the lich with the cockatrice corpse. I turned to face Asmodeus,
and the black dragon disintegrated him. So, I stoned the dragon to
form a statue in its honor. Conveniently, the stairs were nearby, so I
descended.
Nothing much of note after I felt great due to my now uncursed unihorn
until a trapdoor dropped me into Juibilex's lap. He wasn't much
trouble, since I'd seen him before in a previous game.
Now, I'm a level below the swamp. I don't know what any of my scrolls
or wands are. I suspect my wand of wishing still has a wish or two
remaining, if I can figure out which wand to use. I'm considering
another amulet of life saving...
I also killed the priest of Moloch by accident with Stormbringer. Does
that matter really?
APLer
> The amulet of life saving was a good choice. I died fighting a master
> lich who summoned a master mindflayer, a cockatrice and a black
> dragon.
Ouch!
> The commotion attracted Asmodeus, who killed the 'trice by
> repeatedly zapping me with a wand of fire. The bolt of reflected fire
> was his undoing. Defiantly, with an INT of 3, I thwacked the flayer,
> then the lich with the cockatrice corpse. I turned to face Asmodeus,
> and the black dragon disintegrated him. So, I stoned the dragon to
> form a statue in its honor. Conveniently, the stairs were nearby, so I
> descended.
>
Not too shabby. I have a bones file with Yeenoghu on the level parallel
to the mines right now. (I don't use hearse). I'm dreading every new
game now. He was in the room with the stairs up to the level that joins
the mines. According to wiki, he does the same thing as Rodney: teleports
to you/the upstairs. Needless to say, it was an instakill.
> Nothing much of note after I felt great due to my now uncursed unihorn
> until a trapdoor dropped me into Juibilex's lap. He wasn't much
> trouble, since I'd seen him before in a previous game.
>
> Now, I'm a level below the swamp. I don't know what any of my scrolls
> or wands are. I suspect my wand of wishing still has a wish or two
> remaining, if I can figure out which wand to use. I'm considering
> another amulet of life saving...
>
> I also killed the priest of Moloch by accident with Stormbringer. Does
> that matter really?
You've finished the quest right?
James
> James <james.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > "G-Mon" <gmon5...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
[...]
> > You *can* melee with a disenchanter, under certain
> > circumstances, but why would you want to. They're one of the
> > reasons I insist on learning the spell of magic missles, even as
> > a barbarian.
> Even missile combat can suck against a disenchanter. Start
> with 20 blessed +5 elven daggers. End with 5 of them +2, 2 of
> them +3, one of them +4 and a death disenchanter. Argh!
Exactly. That's why, even as a barbarian, I tend to use the
spell of magic missles.
--
James Kanze
Derek Ray
Why don't you just wield your unicorn horn and beat them to death? MC3
protects against their disenchantment strike and the unihorn is both
blessed (so no fear of cursing from random sources) and non-charged so a
disenchanter can't affect it at all.
Or you could just go around them. The object is to get the Amulet, not
to kill everything in the dungeon...
--
Derek
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