opening locked box or chest.
Seong-Kook Shin
I wonder if there is a way to open locked box safely.
I know only following way to open a box:
- Cast knock spell to it. (safe)
- Kick a box (unsafe, contents might be crashed.)
Is there any other way to open a locked box?
I'm afraid I do not know how to open it safely if I don't
know how to cast a knock spell.
Perhaps a key, a lockpick, or a credit card helps?
When I was in a shop, and there is a box with unusual price,
I know that there are some items inside, but I don't want to
crash items if I don't have enough money, and I'm fighter class
who don't know cast a knock spell...
Swervy_a
Apply a key, lockpick, or credit card while standing over the box.
Also, you can #force a lock with any bladed weapon (with a chance of the
weapon breaking; carry an uncursed dagger for this, don't use your main
lonsword) or a blunt weapon (good chance of breaking fragile things
inside, like kicking). Blunt weapons can also destroy the box entirely.
Boudewijn Waijers
> I wonder if there is a way to open locked box safely.
> I know only following way to open a box:
> - Cast knock spell to it. (safe)
> - Kick a box (unsafe, contents might be crashed.)
I never use these methods, the first because I rarely have that spell
and the second for the reason you mention.
> Is there any other way to open a locked box?
> I'm afraid I do not know how to open it safely if I don't
> know how to cast a knock spell.
It would be very strange if you'd have to be able to cast spells to open
a lock.
> Perhaps a key, a lockpick, or a credit card helps?
All three will do, and the two you mention first may also re-lock it,
even if that's never of any use at all.
> When I was in a shop, and there is a box with unusual price,
> I know that there are some items inside, but I don't want to
> crash items if I don't have enough money, and I'm fighter class
> who don't know cast a knock spell...
A simple key (well, simple: all keys in NetHack are skeleton keys) will
do. A tool shop might have one.
In fact, *every* tool shop has one, but then again, *every shop* has
one. What a pity you cannot easily get at it...
--
Boudewijn Waijers (bwaijers at home.nl).
"So computers are tools of the Devil? thought Newt. He had no problem
believing it. Computers had to be the tools of *somebody*, and all he
knew for certain was that it definitely wasn't him."
- Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman, in "Good Omens".
Jesse Meyer
> Apply a key, lockpick, or credit card while standing over the box.
>
> Also, you can #force a lock with any bladed weapon (with a chance of the
> weapon breaking; carry an uncursed dagger for this, don't use your main
> lonsword) or a blunt weapon (good chance of breaking fragile things
> inside, like kicking).
When I find my first (crude) dagger, I'll pet-test it, then name it
"Redneck Lockpick" and use it until I find an unlocking tool.
--
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Andrew Fenton
Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> A simple key (well, simple: all keys in NetHack are skeleton keys)
Unless, of course, it's a Master Key.
> In fact, *every* tool shop has one, but then again, *every shop* has
> one. What a pity you cannot easily get at it...
So true, so sad.
-Andrew
Boudewijn Waijers
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>> A simple key (well, simple: all keys in NetHack are skeleton keys)
> Unless, of course, it's a Master Key.
No.
The master key of thievery is a skeleton key as well. As I said: ALL
keys in NetHack are skeleton keys:
Discoveries
Artifacts
The Master Key of Thievery [chaotic skeleton key]
Tools
skeleton key (key)
Topi Linkala
> Seong-Kook Shin wrote:
>
>>I wonder if there is a way to open locked box safely.
>
>>I know only following way to open a box:
>>- Cast knock spell to it. (safe)
>>- Kick a box (unsafe, contents might be crashed.)
>
> I never use these methods, the first because I rarely have that spell
> and the second for the reason you mention.
>
>>Is there any other way to open a locked box?
>>I'm afraid I do not know how to open it safely if I don't
>>know how to cast a knock spell.
>
> It would be very strange if you'd have to be able to cast spells to open
> a lock.
If my wizard starts with knock, I never use key, lockpick or creditcard.
The reason: easiest way to advance in matter spells.
Topi
--
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are
always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
"How come he didn't put 'I think' at the end of it?" - Anonymous
Boudewijn Waijers
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>> It would be very strange if you'd have to be able to cast spells to
>> open a lock.
> If my wizard starts with knock, I never use key, lockpick or
> creditcard.
> The reason: easiest way to advance in matter spells.
I like to preserve my mana for things I cannot do manually, like casting
attack spells.
Topi Linkala
> Topi Linkala wrote:
>
>>Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>
>>>It would be very strange if you'd have to be able to cast spells to
>>>open a lock.
>
>>If my wizard starts with knock, I never use key, lockpick or
>>creditcard.
>
>>The reason: easiest way to advance in matter spells.
>
> I like to preserve my mana for things I cannot do manually, like casting
> attack spells.
There are not so many locked chests or doors that that really matters.
Knock is just first level spell and you would have plenty of mana or
otherwise the foes are so puny that you don't need attack spells.
Anyways, I try to advance matter and divination before attack. Escape is
always the last. But then again, it depends on what spells my wizard
gets at the start.
Just started a new one and she got create monster. That means that first
altar is sack fest.
Doug Freyburger
>
> A simple key (well, simple: all keys in NetHack are skeleton
> keys) will do.
Some version had many shapes of keys including skeleton keys. I
think it was Hack before the original Nethack. Many years ago.
Identifying a key would tell you what locks it would open and a
skeleton key opened all locks.
In memory of this old feature unIDed keys are now "key" that
become "skeleton key" when IDed.
Dylan O'Donnell
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> >
> > A simple key (well, simple: all keys in NetHack are skeleton
> > keys) will do.
>
> Some version had many shapes of keys including skeleton keys. I
> think it was Hack before the original Nethack. Many years ago.
Keys weren't introduced at _all_ until NetHack 3.0 :-)
> Identifying a key would tell you what locks it would open and a
> skeleton key opened all locks.
3.0 had round, square, triangular, oval, octagonal, hexagonal,
cylindrical, irregular, conical, and wedge-shaped keys: these
fit corresponding locks (except that the last four locks were
"wide", "notched", "large round", and "large square"). Only chests
and large boxes had these locks; doors were only fit by skeleton
keys.
> In memory of this old feature unIDed keys are now "key" that
> become "skeleton key" when IDed.
Well, this was the case for skeleton keys previously as well. It's just
that non-skeleton keys were removed in 3.1.0.
--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "'Loddle-deeked, is it? It's been many camlings since the gitches :
: in the delcot of tondam have been loddle-deeked. That'll be the :
: gheliper's doing.'" -- Carl Muckenhoupt, "The Gostak" :
Ben Scott
>
> Well, this was the case for skeleton keys previously as well. It's just
> that non-skeleton keys were removed in 3.1.0.
>
Janis Papanagnou
Cannot speak for the DevTeam, but they did not give much to the game.
Janis
Dylan O'Donnell
Ken Arromdee, some years ago:
# The basic problem is that keys are much rarer than boxes. Since boxes
# themselves aren't _that_ common, chances were almost nothing that someone
# would have both a key and a box that it fits, at the same time.
Kent Paul Dolan
> Any idea why they were removed?
Yeah, they were a pain in the tail that ate knapsack
slots and contributed a lot less to game play than
their originator probably hoped, by the time lots of
other more fun features were added to the game.
One of the real glories of NetHack and its open
development model is that no one has to feel so
invested in a feature that it can't be taken out
later, so stuff can come in, be used for a while,
and go away again.
Right now we've got a lot of folks suggesting ways
to make robbing shops harder, but the end of that
path is dead shopkeepers: if the only way to rob a
shop it to take in some gonzo hostile pet, or a wand
of insta-kill, that's how shops are going to be
treated. Robbing shops is a part of the game,
though, and for the unspoiled player, it is a great
deal of fun == NetHack is an enjoyable game, to
_invent_ ways to rob shops while leaving the
shopkeeper alive, bemused, peaceful, and bankrupt.
Having all the ways to do so cut off because the
thoroughly spoiled players don't enjoy them any
more, to me misses the point. It sort of helps to
recall that rgrn is a self-selected group, all
NetHack players are not fairly represented by the
attitudes of the usually fairly experienced players
here.
Similarly with keys, their complexity missed the
point that they didn't, after other more fun
features were in NetHack, add much playability to
the game compared to just being a royal pain.
Early on, though, they were a pretty neat part of
the puzzle, so they weren't really wasted effort,
they were just overtaken by events.
xanthian, trying not to insult anyone, and
succeeding only in insulting everyone, as usual.
--
Posted via Mailgate.ORG Server - http://www.Mailgate.ORG
Boudewijn Waijers
Even now, with only skeleton keys, it's a hassle to open chests at the
start of the game if you don't want to risk destroying items. Imagine
how it was then, when a key you found wouldn't even open every lock...
It was posssible to have found five different keys, and five different
chests, and still *none* of the keys would fit any of the chests.
Seems reason enough for me to remove them.
Chaos Master
central.org:
> Ken Arromdee, some years ago:
>
> # The basic problem is that keys are much rarer than boxes. Since boxes
> # themselves aren't _that_ common, chances were almost nothing that someone
> # would have both a key and a box that it fits, at the same time.
In ADOM there are various types of key. Very irritating... At least, there are
no chests or boxes. And in ADOM, keys are even more rarer.
[]s
--
Chaos Master®, posting from Brazil. REPLY TO GROUP!
MSN: wizard_o...@hotmail.com http://marreka.no-ip.com
"You're guilty; the punishment is death for all who live."
Vorg the Sapient
Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
>>>Well, this was the case for skeleton keys previously as well. It's just
>>>that non-skeleton keys were removed in 3.1.0.
>>>
>>Any idea why they were removed?
>
>Ken Arromdee, some years ago:
>
># The basic problem is that keys are much rarer than boxes. Since boxes
># themselves aren't _that_ common, chances were almost nothing that someone
># would have both a key and a box that it fits, at the same time.
I kind of liked the idea of variable key shapes. Maybe a posible solution would have
been to throw in a high likelihood (say, 70%) that a matching key could be found on a
level with a locked container; possibly in a closet, providing any existed, or
underneath another object (a doormat! or a boulder), or in a sink or a fountain, or a
grave, or on an intelligent monster... you get the idea. Only complication would be
those levels with more than one locked container (and also you'd end up with literally
hundreds of keys, but this isn't that much worse than the thousands upon thousands of
weapons, armour bits and so forth dropped by random monsters).
Vorg
Ben Scott
>
> Even now, with only skeleton keys, it's a hassle to open chests at the
> start of the game if you don't want to risk destroying items. Imagine
> how it was then, when a key you found wouldn't even open every lock...
> It was posssible to have found five different keys, and five different
> chests, and still *none* of the keys would fit any of the chests.
>
> Seems reason enough for me to remove them.
>
You could be right. Having a whole pile of keys would be a pain
but it would make "knock" more useful.
Keiran
wrote:
...and also wands of opening. Almost the only use they (/Open and
+Knock) get in my game now is opening stuff on the other side of a
moat.
--
Keiran