That Goddamned RNG sucks!
Capt. Cave Man
orc.
Did not even get a single step.
Why does it always seem that our being hit by poisonous items kills us
easier than when we use a poison tipped item against a monster?
sjde...@yahoo.com
"The poison was deadly" is fairly unusual. You can mitigate against
it from some sources (e.g. killer bees) with MC, but that does not
help against arrows. Acquiring some sort of poison resistance is one
of the key early-game steps toward ascending at a high rate. Avoiding
missile-range combat with orcs is one preventative measure you can
take while you lack PR. If it really was a "walk down the stairs and
you're immediately instadeath'd by an arrow" situation, that's a tough
one to avoid.
APLer
news:r1jfj5td060ghq3uv...@4ax.com:
Because it's us that dies. At least you know you're not going to have it
happen next game. Know your monsters and what they can do for you. Esp.
the loud ones...
Capt. Cave Man
It was early in the game, dude. There was no mitigation.
The arrow came from down a hallway and occurred before I had even
encountered a single Orc.
I really do not need a primer on preventative measure or ranged weapons
or the monsters that use them. I simply wanted to gripe about the
GODDAMNED RNG!
Capt. Cave Man
wrote:
That has nothing to do with it. It was far too early in the game for
me to have gained any resistances.
G-Mon
<ItIsSoEasyAC...@upyers.org> wrote in
news:5sufj5he01540c3fn...@4ax.com:
> The arrow came from down a hallway and occurred before I had even
> encountered a single Orc.
Well, that's a YAAD to add to the file. Sucks to get killed by
something you've had minimal -- if any -- chance to prepare for. Oh
well, at least it's not something like losing both of your reflection
sources to a nymph and golden naga, then getting blasted by a black
dragon... right after stepping down the stairs, but before you get
another move. Especially when the game hasn't generated any MR-granting
items yet.
Capt. Cave Man
Since an amulet of reflection is magic, it should reflect ANY attack.
I had one on... it doesn't. Dag nabbit!
APLer
Don't be too sure. I've gained that one by level 2 several times. Along
with clairvoyance of course. Getting cold would be far more dificult
along with fire. But all can easily be achieved before you ever enter
sokoban. Even shock sometimes. You just have to know which monsters and
not rush headlong down levels. The point is to stay alive first, then
ascend and *then* work on optimizing your number of moves in that order.
APLer
Magic missiles, yes. Arrows, no.
APLer
Oh, and by the way I made a fairly obvious hint of *exactly* how it can
be done. You missed it.
Capt. Cave Man
wrote:
>Capt. Cave Man <ItIsSoEasyAC...@upyers.org> wrote in
>news:m1vfj55c7e4k04hr8...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 23:57:39 +0000 (UTC), APLer <AP...@floor.tilde>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Capt. Cave Man <ItIsSoEasyAC...@upyers.org> wrote in
>>>news:r1jfj5td060ghq3uv...@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> Dungeon Level 4 and I get a deadly poison arrow roll, shot by a
>>>> hai
>>>> orc.
>>>> Did not even get a single step.
>>>>
>>>> Why does it always seem that our being hit by poisonous items
>>>> kills us
>>>> easier than when we use a poison tipped item against a monster?
>>>>
>>>Because it's us that dies. At least you know you're not going to have
>>>it happen next game. Know your monsters and what they can do for you.
>>>Esp. the loud ones...
>>>
>> That has nothing to do with it. It was far too early in the game
>> for
>> me to have gained any resistances.
>>
>Oh, and by the way I made a fairly obvious hint of *exactly* how it can
>be done. You missed it.
>
And like I said, I do not need a primer.
Seeing uruk hai orcs while at level 4 on level 4 is rare to begin with.
I would have expected something which I could have gained such a
resistance from. Uruk hai was a weird appearance that early in the game.
G-Mon
<ItIsSoEasyAC...@upyers.org> wrote in
news:sachj5p0u3i2i7lls...@4ax.com:
> Seeing uruk hai orcs while at level 4 on level 4 is rare to
> begin with.
That's not just rare, that's impossible unless the game loaded bones at
level 4. Uruk-hai are difficulty 5, so they'll only be randomly
generated once your experience level and dungeon add up to 10--the rule
is, a monster is eligible for random generation when your XL and DL add
up to double its difficulty (of course, certain special levels have
their own rules, which may ignore this).
Doug Freyburger
> Capt. Cave Man wrote:
>
>> Seeing uruk hai orcs while at level 4 on level 4 is rare to
>> begin with.
>
> That's not just rare, that's impossible unless the game loaded bones at
> level 4. Uruk-hai are difficulty 5, so they'll only be randomly
> generated once your experience level and dungeon add up to 10--the rule
> is, a monster is eligible for random generation when your XL and DL add
> up to double its difficulty (of course, certain special levels have
> their own rules, which may ignore this).
Encountering an out-of-depth bones file is an RNG issue. Check. Just
as the OP stated.
So the question becomes - Was this avoidable using optimal play or was
it an example of a game that would also have killed a player who
commonly does serial ascensions?
I get that on a single user system a player who commonly does serial
ascensions will not get such bones files. So what about on a public
server with plenty of shared bones files?
The situation looks to me a lot like the "gnome with a wand of death"
random event. I like that such events trigger discussion of what could
have been done to avoid the risk - The discussions are really about what
to try in subsequent games but that's a matter of semantics.
Ray Kulhanek
(spoilers ahead)
I doubt it was avoidable. If he died on dlvl 4 while at level 4, then
the only monsters he might have gotten the intrinsic from would be
difficulty 3 or lower. (since he died his first step into level 4).
Going from the wiki, the monsters he could have run into prior to
that that could grant the resistance were the molds, the shrieker,
the cave spider, and the homunculus (which has a poisonous corpse).
To have a 50% chance of getting the resistance, he'd need to have
eaten 4 shriekers, 10 homunculuses or yellow molds, or 23 of any of
the other molds.
Of the items that grant the resistance, the ring and amulet are both
rare enough that it's just a matter of luck to see them before dlvl4,
and even then there's the problem of identification. The alchemy
smock is easy to identify on sight, but presumably he didn't see any
or he would have been wearing it. So technically avoidable, but even
with perfect play, it requires the generosity of the RNG, and it's
already been established that the RNG wasn't feeling particularly
generous that game.
APLer
news:hhdg85$or0$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
Indeed. It *was* a rare event. I'll freely admit that after I saw the
mention of the level 5 limit for the Uruk-hai. Still a mystery as to how
it happened though. I was under the impression that a bones file
couldn't exist on level 4. A random polymorph wand perhaps.
Capt. Cave Man
wrote:
>and the homunculus (which has a poisonous corpse).
I have NEVER seen this corpse give the intrinsic. In fact, I was
ALWAYS told that this was not just poison, but a deadly corpse to eat,
and not merely because it is a poisonous monster.
I therefore have never eaten a homunculus.
Capt. Cave Man
wrote:
>Doug Freyburger wrote:
I had been perusing two shops on two levels, so I could have been at
level 5 exp but doubtful that it would have been more. Also, no bones
here either.
It was as stated... quite early for such a strong opponent, and an
indicator that the "deadly poison" roll might be a bit too strong on the
odds.
Capt. Cave Man
wrote:
>Doug Freyburger <dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote in
No. It was generated there, because I had been down to level 5, and
maybe even level 6, but came back up to the shop, and to use an altar.
APLer
> On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 23:22:12 +0000 (UTC), APLer <AP...@floor.tilde>
> wrote:
>
>>Doug Freyburger <dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>news:hhdg85$or0$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> The situation looks to me a lot like the "gnome with a wand of
>>> death" random event. I like that such events trigger discussion of
>>> what could have been done to avoid the risk - The discussions are
>>> really about what to try in subsequent games but that's a matter of
>>> semantics.
>>
>>Indeed. It *was* a rare event. I'll freely admit that after I saw the
>>mention of the level 5 limit for the Uruk-hai. Still a mystery as to
>>how it happened though. I was under the impression that a bones file
>>couldn't exist on level 4. A random polymorph wand perhaps.
>
> No. It was generated there, because I had been down to level 5, and
> maybe even level 6, but came back up to the shop, and to use an altar.
>
No, I meant the Uruk-Hai was something else before it used it's own or
found polymorph wand. I have no idea if that works either, I suspect it
doesn't.
Capt. Cave Man
wrote:
>Capt. Cave Man <ItIsSoEasyAC...@upyers.org> wrote in
>news:rq6lj5psrg7prnhk5...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 23:22:12 +0000 (UTC), APLer <AP...@floor.tilde>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Doug Freyburger <dfre...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>news:hhdg85$or0$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>
>
>>>> The situation looks to me a lot like the "gnome with a wand of
>>>> death" random event. I like that such events trigger discussion of
>>>> what could have been done to avoid the risk - The discussions are
>>>> really about what to try in subsequent games but that's a matter of
>>>> semantics.
>>>
>>>Indeed. It *was* a rare event. I'll freely admit that after I saw the
>>>mention of the level 5 limit for the Uruk-hai. Still a mystery as to
>>>how it happened though. I was under the impression that a bones file
>>>couldn't exist on level 4. A random polymorph wand perhaps.
>>
>> No. It was generated there, because I had been down to level 5, and
>> maybe even level 6, but came back up to the shop, and to use an altar.
>>
>No, I meant the Uruk-Hai was something else before it used it's own or
>found polymorph wand. I have no idea if that works either, I suspect it
>doesn't.
>
An arrow missed me, and I fired blind down the hallway, and killed the
first one and hit the one that subsequently nailed me on the very next
shot.
my staff skill had been raised, but not my casting ability, so I was
surprised by both their appearance and the poison roll.
Funny, I like dice better than cards at the casinos. Oh well... 42.
G-Mon
news:Xns9CF0B9F...@127.0.0.1:
> Indeed. It *was* a rare event. I'll freely admit that after I saw
> the mention of the level 5 limit for the Uruk-hai. Still a mystery
> as to how it happened though. I was under the impression that a
> bones file couldn't exist on level 4. A random polymorph wand
> perhaps.
>
No, bones are possible on DL 4 as long as the Gnomish Mines entrance
isn't there (remember, levels with extra stairs are ineligible for
bones); in fact, that's the shallowest bones-eligible depth. Uruk-hai
are possible at DL 4 without polymorph if you're XL 6 or higher. My
guess is that someone XL 6+ once died at this level and left bones, and
the OP was unlucky enough to run into said bones.