sokoban items on holes
kreu...@gmail.com
When a bolder goes on top do they drop through or are they gone? Can I
push them forward somehow? Thanks
Janis Papanagnou
> Hi all, Apart from a whip, how can I get items on holes in sokoban?
Since you mention whips, I suppose grappling hooks *might* also work.
(Haven't tried yet, because I usually take different aproaches.)
> When a bolder goes on top do they drop through or are they gone?
They are not gone, but they are buried and you need to dig them up
again; nothing that is typically a good idea in Sokoban.
> Can I push them forward somehow? Thanks
You can kick them objects that are not fragile. They may land on a
solid spot behind the holes, or will get dragged down though a hole
to previous Sokoban levels where you can go and fetch them.
Usually I define the relevant object class in my object pickuptypes
and turn on option autopickup, then I just step on that square and
while the current drags me down I've already got the desired item.
Janis
APLer
news:gkbv91$rst$1...@svr7.m-online.net:
> kreu...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hi all, Apart from a whip, how can I get items on holes in sokoban?
>
> Since you mention whips, I suppose grappling hooks *might* also work.
> (Haven't tried yet, because I usually take different aproaches.)
>
>> When a bolder goes on top do they drop through or are they gone?
>
> They are not gone, but they are buried and you need to dig them up
> again; nothing that is typically a good idea in Sokoban.
>
No, they are pushed through to one of the lower levels. This doesn't apply
to the lowest level of sokoban obviously where you just go in the hole and
get it (and can't fall through).
Janis Papanagnou
> Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:gkbv91$rst$1...@svr7.m-online.net:
>>kreu...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>Hi all, Apart from a whip, how can I get items on holes in sokoban?
>>
>>Since you mention whips, I suppose grappling hooks *might* also work.
>>(Haven't tried yet, because I usually take different aproaches.)
>>
>>>When a bolder goes on top do they drop through or are they gone?
>>
>>They are not gone, but they are buried and you need to dig them up
>>again; nothing that is typically a good idea in Sokoban.
>
> No, they are pushed through to one of the lower levels.
No, that's wrong. They will get buried. (Why don't you check facts first,
instead of posting misinformation? I've re-confirmed it in Wizmode.)
> This doesn't apply
> to the lowest level of sokoban obviously where you just go in the hole and
> get it (and can't fall through).
The lower level has _pits_ and not holes. We were talking about *holes*.
Janis
hcobb
Magic whistle?
-HJC
Charlie
Activate auto-pick-up. Go into hole.
You will fall through but acquire the item.
APLer
> APLer wrote:
>> Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:gkbv91$rst$1...@svr7.m-online.net:
>>>kreu...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi all, Apart from a whip, how can I get items on holes in sokoban?
>>>
>>>Since you mention whips, I suppose grappling hooks *might* also work.
>>>(Haven't tried yet, because I usually take different aproaches.)
>>>
>>>>When a bolder goes on top do they drop through or are they gone?
>>>
>>>They are not gone, but they are buried and you need to dig them up
>>>again; nothing that is typically a good idea in Sokoban.
>>
>> No, they are pushed through to one of the lower levels.
>
> No, that's wrong. They will get buried. (Why don't you check facts
> first, instead of posting misinformation? I've re-confirmed it in
> Wizmode.)
>
I doubt that as I saw it happen in a game I played yesterday. Objects fall
through holes. Possibly what happened is you didn't find the item. when
you fill in a hole, the object gets pushed to the next level down.
Janis Papanagnou
> Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:gkc21f$vjo$1...@svr7.m-online.net:
>
>
>>APLer wrote:
>>
>>>Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>news:gkbv91$rst$1...@svr7.m-online.net:
>>>
>>>>kreu...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi all, Apart from a whip, how can I get items on holes in sokoban?
>>>>
>>>>Since you mention whips, I suppose grappling hooks *might* also work.
>>>>(Haven't tried yet, because I usually take different aproaches.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>When a bolder goes on top do they drop through or are they gone?
>>>>
>>>>They are not gone, but they are buried and you need to dig them up
>>>>again; nothing that is typically a good idea in Sokoban.
>>>
>>>No, they are pushed through to one of the lower levels.
>>
>>No, that's wrong. They will get buried. (Why don't you check facts
>>first, instead of posting misinformation? I've re-confirmed it in
>>Wizmode.)
>>
>
> I doubt that as I saw it happen in a game I played yesterday. Objects fall
> through holes.
No. Objects may fall through holes if thrown or kicked across a hole.
But they get *buried* if you push a boulder onto them. (Please don't
repeatedly spread mis-information!)
> Possibly what happened is you didn't find the item. when
(Possibly you once again don't care about facts, and don't care to
double check it by any means, Wizmode, or source code, or whatever.)
> you fill in a hole, the object gets pushed to the next level down.
You can fire up a Wizmode session and check that yourself...
Find a Sokoban level where an object initially covers a hole, push a
boulder into that hole, quaff a potion of object detection (while not
in line of sight of the square), optionally you can get a pickaxe and
dig a pit there, and you'll find the object.
Good luck!
APLer
> APLer wrote:
>> Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:gkc21f$vjo$1...@svr7.m-online.net:
>>
>>
>>>APLer wrote:
>>>
>>>>Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>>news:gkbv91$rst$1...@svr7.m-online.net:
>>>>
>>>>>kreu...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi all, Apart from a whip, how can I get items on holes in sokoban?
>>>>>
>>>>>Since you mention whips, I suppose grappling hooks *might* also work.
>>>>>(Haven't tried yet, because I usually take different aproaches.)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>When a bolder goes on top do they drop through or are they gone?
>>>>>
>>>>>They are not gone, but they are buried and you need to dig them up
>>>>>again; nothing that is typically a good idea in Sokoban.
>>>>
>>>>No, they are pushed through to one of the lower levels.
>>>
>>>No, that's wrong. They will get buried. (Why don't you check facts
>>>first, instead of posting misinformation? I've re-confirmed it in
>>>Wizmode.)
>>>
>>
>> I doubt that as I saw it happen in a game I played yesterday. Objects
>> fall through holes.
>
> No. Objects may fall through holes if thrown or kicked across a hole.
> But they get *buried* if you push a boulder onto them. (Please don't
> repeatedly spread mis-information!)
>
Did you search *every* level below when you were checking in wiz mode?
>> Possibly what happened is you didn't find the item. when
>
> (Possibly you once again don't care about facts, and don't care to
> double check it by any means, Wizmode, or source code, or whatever.)
>
>> you fill in a hole, the object gets pushed to the next level down.
>
Ok, then. In sokoban *one* of the levels below.
> You can fire up a Wizmode session and check that yourself...
>
> Find a Sokoban level where an object initially covers a hole, push a
> boulder into that hole, quaff a potion of object detection (while not
> in line of sight of the square), optionally you can get a pickaxe and
> dig a pit there, and you'll find the object.
>
Then how is it that when I go down to unburden periodically (I generally
leave a chest/box just beside the stairs into sokoban) while doing sokoban
I've found food rations that weren't on that level when I went up? This
*only* happens when I do put a boulder in a hole with one in it.
Seriously. I'm not just nay-saying you. I'm talking about a cause and
effect relationship I've seen several times.
There remains the possibility that it's unique to sporkhack as that's what
I've been playing recently, but my understanding is that Derek won't fix
any of nethack's bugs and this would be in that category I'd say.
Janis Papanagnou
[...]
> Did you search *every* level below when you were checking in wiz mode?
Please try to understand what I said. You will *find* the buried objects
if you dig for them and you will see them if you quaff object detection.
(Why do you think it would make sense to search elsewhere for the objects
if they are still there and if I can just get them; do you think they
magically duplicate, one instance buried, and one instance at some other
level?)
>>>you fill in a hole, the object gets pushed to the next level down.
>>
> Ok, then. In sokoban *one* of the levels below.
(Whether you meant next level or any level below is irrelavant; because
the objects are still buried on the current level.)
> Then how is it that when I go down to unburden periodically (I generally
> leave a chest/box just beside the stairs into sokoban) while doing sokoban
> I've found food rations that weren't on that level when I went up? This
> *only* happens when I do put a boulder in a hole with one in it.
My guess would be that you haven't observed the situation accurately.
Mind that there are yet more possibilities that lead to dropping objects
through holes. One quite common one is that some intelligent monster (or
the player) throws missiles (or whatever) across the holes to hit some
foo; in this case it may happen that a thus "dropped" object may hit an
object on the floor and will carry away that other item through the hole.
> Seriously. I'm not just nay-saying you. I'm talking about a cause and
> effect relationship I've seen several times.
(If you happen to play on a public server you may want to replay and
re-inspect such games; I am sure that will be enlightening. It too often
happens that one just misses something in the heat of the events.)
> There remains the possibility that it's unique to sporkhack as that's what
> I've been playing recently, but my understanding is that Derek won't fix
> any of nethack's bugs and this would be in that category I'd say.
Well, since this thread isn't specifically about Spork I won't comment
on that part.
And why you consider this (what exactly?) a bug is beyond me.
Janis
APLer
> APLer wrote:
> [...]
>> Did you search *every* level below when you were checking in wiz mode?
>
> Please try to understand what I said. You will *find* the buried objects
> if you dig for them and you will see them if you quaff object detection.
>
> (Why do you think it would make sense to search elsewhere for the
> objects if they are still there and if I can just get them; do you think
> they magically duplicate, one instance buried, and one instance at some
> other level?)
>
So that's a no then. This point and the next one bear a kind of symmetry
of our different views. Interesting.
> Mind that there are yet more possibilities that lead to dropping objects
> through holes. One quite common one is that some intelligent monster (or
> the player) throws missiles (or whatever) across the holes to hit some
> foo; in this case it may happen that a thus "dropped" object may hit an
> object on the floor and will carry away that other item through the
> hole.
>
>> Seriously. I'm not just nay-saying you. I'm talking about a cause and
>> effect relationship I've seen several times.
>
> (If you happen to play on a public server you may want to replay and
> re-inspect such games; I am sure that will be enlightening. It too often
> happens that one just misses something in the heat of the events.)
>
Well I generally don't play on public servers. However I'm willing to let
this discussion rest until I provide such.
>> There remains the possibility that it's unique to sporkhack as that's
>> what I've been playing recently, but my understanding is that Derek
>> won't fix any of nethack's bugs and this would be in that category I'd
>> say.
>
> Well, since this thread isn't specifically about Spork I won't comment
> on that part.
>
It still might be unique to spork anyways. I will get back to you if I
find it doesn't happen in nethack and does in spork. That would solve the
situation nicely.
> And why you consider this (what exactly?) a bug is beyond me.
>
The ration or whatever not dropping down to the next level might be
considered a bug - it *is* a hole after all and the view that the boulder
would push somthing through the hole below it is certainly reasonable.
Aardvark Joe
> Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:gkjk1m$q16$1...@svr7.m-online.net:
>
>> APLer wrote:
>>> There remains the possibility that it's unique to sporkhack as that's
>>> what I've been playing recently, but my understanding is that Derek
>>> won't fix any of nethack's bugs and this would be in that category I'd
>>> say.
>>
>> Well, since this thread isn't specifically about Spork I won't comment
>> on that part.
>>
> It still might be unique to spork anyways. I will get back to you if I
> find it doesn't happen in nethack and does in spork. That would solve the
> situation nicely.
Instead of arguing about it, why not just inspect the code? The
relevant lines (lines 163-180 of trap.c, in function moverock()) do
not cause objects to get pushed through the hole; they just get
buried. That function is unmodified in the svn copy of sporkhack that
I just checked out.
Justin Hiltscher
Well, shucks, if you're going to be all reasonable about it...
Janis Papanagnou
> Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:gkjk1m$q16$1...@svr7.m-online.net:
>>APLer wrote:
>>[...]
>>
>>>Did you search *every* level below when you were checking in wiz mode?
>>
>>Please try to understand what I said. You will *find* the buried objects
>>if you dig for them and you will see them if you quaff object detection.
>>
>>(Why do you think it would make sense to search elsewhere for the
>>objects if they are still there and if I can just get them; do you think
>>they magically duplicate, one instance buried, and one instance at some
>>other level?)
>
> So that's a no then.
This sounds rather trollish. *Did* you understand what I said?
Did you verify what I suggested to do?
> This point and the next one bear a kind of symmetry
> of our different views.
No symmetry, rather antagonistic; you seem to insist on doing an
irrelevant "check" rather than just verifying that the object is
still there on the same level.
> Interesting.
I'd say boring.
Are you, maybe, this "chuck" guy, now posting under another name?
> Well I generally don't play on public servers. However I'm willing to let
> this discussion rest until I provide such.
Then use Wizmode and verify that on your own. It's that simple.
> The ration or whatever not dropping down to the next level might be
> considered a bug - it *is* a hole after all and the view that the boulder
> would push somthing through the hole below it is certainly reasonable.
A lot related to boulders, fragile objects, trapdoors and holes
does not match with Real Life. Typically this is not considered
a bug.
Janis
APLer
> APLer wrote:
>> Janis Papanagnou <janis_pa...@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:gkjk1m$q16$1...@svr7.m-online.net:
>>>APLer wrote:
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>>Did you search *every* level below when you were checking in wiz mode?
>>>
>>>Please try to understand what I said. You will *find* the buried
>>>objects if you dig for them and you will see them if you quaff object
>>>detection.
>>>
>>>(Why do you think it would make sense to search elsewhere for the
>>>objects if they are still there and if I can just get them; do you
>>>think they magically duplicate, one instance buried, and one instance
>>>at some other level?)
>>
>> So that's a no then.
>
> This sounds rather trollish.
Riight. And you've been perfectly kind in your replies.
*Did* you understand what I said?
> Did you verify what I suggested to do?
>
I haven't had the chance too and as I say later in the post it wouldn't
matter anyways.
>> This point and the next one bear a kind of symmetry
>> of our different views.
>
> No symmetry, rather antagonistic; you seem to insist on doing an
> irrelevant "check" rather than just verifying that the object is
> still there on the same level.
>
>> Well I generally don't play on public servers. However I'm willing to
>> let this discussion rest until I provide such.
>
> Then use Wizmode and verify that on your own. It's that simple.
>
>> The ration or whatever not dropping down to the next level might be
>> considered a bug - it *is* a hole after all and the view that the
>> boulder would push somthing through the hole below it is certainly
>> reasonable.
>
> A lot related to boulders, fragile objects, trapdoors and holes
> does not match with Real Life. Typically this is not considered
> a bug.
>
A matter of opinion as I said. Anyways it does happen in spork and doesn't
in vanilla. So it's another twist that spork puts on things.
Derek Ray
> A matter of opinion as I said. Anyways it does happen in spork and doesn't
> in vanilla. So it's another twist that spork puts on things.
Evidence, chuck? Please refer to Aardvark Joe's post.
--
Derek
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