Enchanting Artifact weapons
Getsome
How much can I enchant artifact weapons?
I thought the max was +4
sjde...@yahoo.com
You can safely enchant them when the current enchantment is +5 or less.
So you can get to +7 safely with patience (read blessed ?ea on a +5
weapon; if it's +6, lower it to +5 and try again).
With armor it's +3 or lower that's safe (so you can get them up to +5
w/ patience), except elven armor (and cornuthaums for wizards) where +5
or lower is safe (so you can get them to +7 w/ patience).
Doug Freyburger
> Getsome wrote:
>
> > I found a +7 Magicbane
> > How much can I enchant artifact weapons?
> > I thought the max was +4
>
> You can safely enchant them when the current enchantment is +5 or less.
> So you can get to +7 safely with patience (read blessed ?ea on a +5
> weapon; if it's +6, lower it to +5 and try again).
With most weapons you can engrave with them to reduce their
enchantment. MB is an athame so that only works if it is
cursed. It takes a lot more work for MB than for other artifacts.
Drain life spell works sometimes on artifacts so that's the way
to go with taking MB form +6 back to +5 to try again.
The difference between +6 and +7 is such that I often don't go
through the effort.
Janis Papanagnou
>> So you can get to +7 safely with patience (read blessed ?ea on a +5
>>weapon; if it's +6, lower it to +5 and try again).
>
> With most weapons you can engrave with them to reduce their
> enchantment. MB is an athame so that only works if it is
> cursed.
He didn't say anything about how to lower the enchantment, especially
not by engraving. I assumed he meant, e.g., to use a cursed scroll of
enchant weapon or accept some help from a disenchanter (if that works
as I suspect).
> It takes a lot more work for MB than for other artifacts.
> Drain life spell works sometimes on artifacts so that's the way
> to go with taking MB form +6 back to +5 to try again.
>
> The difference between +6 and +7 is such that I often don't go
> through the effort.
Yep, indeed.
Janis
sjde...@yahoo.com
> sjde...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Getsome wrote:
> >
> > > I found a +7 Magicbane
> > > How much can I enchant artifact weapons?
> > > I thought the max was +4
> >
> > You can safely enchant them when the current enchantment is +5 or less.
> > So you can get to +7 safely with patience (read blessed ?ea on a +5
> > weapon; if it's +6, lower it to +5 and try again).
> The difference between +6 and +7 is such that I often don't go
> through the effort.
I agree, I was just trying to explain how he found +7.
If I have extra scrolls and a +6 weapon, I'll sometimes carry the
scrolls with me and if I find a disenchanter I'll melee it until I'm
back to +5. But I won't go out of my way to get to +7 or waste marker
charges if I don't find tons of scrolls.
Really exorbitant melee damage is kind of overrated anyway, my rogue
ascension was I believe a +4 silver saber and +1 silver dagger and that
was plenty of firepower; when the going gets really tough (sanctum,
air, astral, etc) you're using options other than melee anyway.
Doug Freyburger
> Doug Freyburger wrote:
>
> > The difference between +6 and +7 is such that I often don't go
> > through the effort.
>
> I agree, I was just trying to explain how he found +7.
Sure, and I was explaining why my games end up with +6 weapons
as often as +7 ones.
> Really exorbitant melee damage is kind of overrated anyway, my rogue
> ascension was I believe a +4 silver saber and +1 silver dagger and that
> was plenty of firepower; when the going gets really tough (sanctum,
> air, astral, etc) you're using options other than melee anyway.
I'm paranoid enough to max out my entire kit well before taking out
Rodney.
Boudewijn Waijers
> Getsome wrote:
>> I found a +7 Magicbane
>> How much can I enchant artifact weapons?
>> I thought the max was +4
> You can safely enchant them when the current enchantment is +5 or
> less. So you can get to +7 safely with patience (read blessed ?ea on
> a +5 weapon; if it's +6, lower it to +5 and try again).
Then again, who would want to enchant Magicbane higher than +2 or +3?
Magicbane is most effective at lower enchantment levels...
--
Boudewijn.
Confusius says: may the RNG be good to you!
Boudewijn Waijers
> He didn't say anything about how to lower the enchantment, especially
> not by engraving. I assumed he meant, e.g., to use a cursed scroll of
> enchant weapon or accept some help from a disenchanter (if that works
> as I suspect).
Whe spell of drain level, cast at a weapon that is lying on the floor,
will also work, in most circumstances.
Rast
says...
> Then again, who would want to enchant Magicbane higher than +2 or +3?
>
> Magicbane is most effective at lower enchantment levels...
The group have been over this topic a few times recently.
The three most important properties of Magicbane are (IMO) MR, curse
absorption, and damage. The first two aren't affected by enchantment,
and the third one is boosted by it.
The lesser abilities are more likely at lower enchantments, but they are
fairly crappy anyway. IIRC, the cancellation attack of Magicbane is
subject to magic resistance, so even when you hit the 10% chance of
cancellation, the monsters you most want to cancel are probably going to
resist it.
--
"It's only possible to betray where loyalty is due," said Sandy.
"Well, wasn't it due to Miss Brodie?"
"Only up to a point," said Sandy.
- Muriel Spark
sjde...@yahoo.com
> sjde...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Getsome wrote:
>
> >> I found a +7 Magicbane
> >> How much can I enchant artifact weapons?
> >> I thought the max was +4
>
> > You can safely enchant them when the current enchantment is +5 or
> > less. So you can get to +7 safely with patience (read blessed ?ea on
> > a +5 weapon; if it's +6, lower it to +5 and try again).
>
> Then again, who would want to enchant Magicbane higher than +2 or +3?
>
> Magicbane is most effective at lower enchantment levels...
No it isn't, although that's a common myth that's sort-of spread by the
artifact weapons spoiler. This group has been over it many times, see
the archives for details (Jove in particular has posted a pretty
detailed analysis at least once).
Basically, you average more damage at +7 (I can't remember the exact
calculation but it's not a trivial difference), and you lose out on
chances of probing, stunning, scaring, and cancellation, none of which
are a big deal except cancellation in limited circumstances (especially
given the 1-turn E capability of Magicbane which can duplicate scaring
on _everything_ adjacent, which is better than stunning; also, if you
have a stethoscope you can get probing for free).
The really nice effects of magicbane (curse absorption, magic
resistance, and the 1-turn E that all athames have) are the same
whether it's +2 or +7.
Janis
> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> >
> > Then again, who would want to enchant Magicbane higher than +2 or +3?
> > Magicbane is most effective at lower enchantment levels...
Because of the higher damage done. It's most effective for their
magical effects, though. But some people don't like its magical
attacks and go for damage only (I am unsure about why they use
Magicbane if they go for melee damage; I'd use it as a secondary
weapon, then, and use other artifacts if I want to do huge damage;
you can always switch weapons for the curse absorption).
> No it isn't, although that's a common myth that's sort-of spread by the
> artifact weapons spoiler.
No, the spoilers are quite objective (if you refer to these two)...
http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/weap-343.txt
http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/art2-343.txt
> This group has been over it many times, see
> the archives for details
Indeed.
Janis
Rachel Elizabeth Dillon
> sjde...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
>> >
>> > Then again, who would want to enchant Magicbane higher than +2 or +3?
>> > Magicbane is most effective at lower enchantment levels...
>
> Because of the higher damage done. It's most effective for their
> magical effects, though. But some people don't like its magical
> attacks and go for damage only (I am unsure about why they use
> Magicbane if they go for melee damage; I'd use it as a secondary
> weapon, then, and use other artifacts if I want to do huge damage;
> you can always switch weapons for the curse absorption).
Well, you won't know when you're going to get cursed until you do.
Switching weapons after that seems counterproductive :)
When I wield +7 Magicbane, melee is generally not my primary means of
doing damage. I'm either throwing daggers, firing arrows, or spamcasting
magic missile. All the same, sometimes I want to thwack something, and
when I do, I'd rather it did more damage. If I want to cancel monsters,
I'll zap them with a wand of cancellation (or spell, if wizard); if I
want to scare them, I'll engrave Elbereth.
I did have a friend recently extol the virtues of +0 Magicbane twoweaponed
with a +7 silver saber. That sounds like an excellent compromise
for twoweaponers who want curse resistance on the way up. Otherwise,
if melee is my primary means of causing damage, I won't be wielding
Magicbane regardless.
-r.
Janis
> > you can always switch weapons for the curse absorption).
>
> Well, you won't know when you're going to get cursed until you do.
> Switching weapons after that seems counterproductive :)
Running with MB in hands and x'ing for two hits worked well for me. A
curse in the short timespan in between is a small risk (if any risk at
all, in such constellations).
> When I wield +7 Magicbane, melee is generally not my primary means of
> doing damage. I'm either throwing daggers, firing arrows, or spamcasting
> magic missile. All the same, sometimes I want to thwack something, and
> when I do, I'd rather it did more damage. If I want to cancel monsters,
> I'll zap them with a wand of cancellation (or spell, if wizard); if I
> want to scare them, I'll engrave Elbereth.
Yep, specialized equipment always (mostly?) rules. The point with MB
is that it does both, damage and magic, in one hit. You'll trade the
damage difference for magic (*if* you like that, of course).
> I did have a friend recently extol the virtues of +0 Magicbane twoweaponed
> with a +7 silver saber. That sounds like an excellent compromise
> for twoweaponers who want curse resistance on the way up. Otherwise,
> if melee is my primary means of causing damage, I won't be wielding
> Magicbane regardless.
Janis
sjde...@yahoo.com
> sjde...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > Boudewijn Waijers wrote:
> > >
> > > Then again, who would want to enchant Magicbane higher than +2 or +3?
> > > Magicbane is most effective at lower enchantment levels...
>
> Because of the higher damage done. It's most effective for their
> magical effects, though. But some people don't like its magical
> attacks and go for damage only (I am unsure about why they use
> Magicbane if they go for melee damage; I'd use it as a secondary
> weapon, then, and use other artifacts if I want to do huge damage
Wizards get magicbane as their sacrifice gift, and they have no usual
source of a better melee weapon unless you're into long-term altar
camping. If my wizard gets greyswandir or *brand or something then
sure, I'll use it, but I practically never do.
The really useful magical effects aren't hurt by enchanting it up,
anyway.
Jove
>sjde...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> Getsome wrote:
>
>>> I found a +7 Magicbane
>>> How much can I enchant artifact weapons?
>>> I thought the max was +4
>
>> You can safely enchant them when the current enchantment is +5 or
>> less. So you can get to +7 safely with patience (read blessed ?ea on
>> a +5 weapon; if it's +6, lower it to +5 and try again).
>
>Then again, who would want to enchant Magicbane higher than +2 or +3?
>
That turns out not to be the case. Magicbane has two breakpoints. One is
from +2 to +3, where the both the scare and cancellation chances go from 10% to
5%. The second breakpoint is from +5 to +6 where the cancellation chance goes
from 5% to 0%. So +2, +5, and +7 are the possible "optimal" enchantments.
+2 gives the most damage without reducing the chances of scaring and
cancellation.
+5 gives maximum damage while still having a chance of cancellation.
+7 gives maximum damage, to-hit, engrave probability, magic resistance,
and curse resistance. Insightful probe is actually more likely than at +2.
Scare is still at 5%, the same as it is at +3. Stun is at 9.5%, down from
14.5% at +2.
But at +2 cancellation has a 90% failure rate. It takes almost 22 hits to
have a 90% chance of a cancellation attempt. Those same 22 hits at +7 would do
85 more points of damage.
Here are the ten effects of Magicbane and their probabilities at those
enchantments:
INSIGHT CURSE
ENCHANT AVE DMG TO-HIT PROBE ENGRAVE MR RESIST CONF STUN SCARE CANCL
~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~~ ~~~~~
+2 9.48 + 6 .92% 100% 100% 95% 1.2% 14.5% 10.0% 10.0%
+5 11.83 + 9 1.09% 100% 100% 95% 1.2% 13.6% 5.0 5.0%
+6 12.49 +10 1.24% 100% 100% 95% 1.2% 12.7% 5.0% 0%
+7 13.40 +11 1.21% 100% 100% 95% 1.2% 9.5% 5.0% 0%
>
>Magicbane is most effective at lower enchantment levels...
I disagree just because Magicbane is less likely to be wielded at lower
enchantment levels. That removes all of Magicbane's effects except engraving.
For further info see here:
<http://www.mindspring.com/~jove/Spoilers/Magicbane.txt>
--
Welcome to NetHack. | I take what I'm given.
| You exploit the game.
All the best, | He's an abusive cheater.
Jove (Joe Bednorz)