Newbie Question re: Ghosts & My Pet & Werefoo
Felwynne
running into ghosts of my former characters. I notice they are easy
to run away from but can they be "killed"? Every time I try I get
"You miss Felwynne's ghost". I notice my pet, Ruffie, always misses
too. I am playing a Valk and have no magic items except a wand of
opening right now. Are they only conquered through magic?
Next, sometimes you get the message "Are you sure you want to attack
the foo?". I skip by the "friendlies" but I notice my pet will kill
(and eat) many of them. Does this count against me?
I have been bitten by wererats before and, well, have become one too.
Lycanthropy, oh what fun! I tried continuing using #monster but with
all the changes back and forth ultimately I was slain. How can a
character recover from this affliction?
I try not to use spoilers so I guess I am looking for rough hints or
somewhat veiled clues. A play style question: I always wind up in
the mines (is the Sokoban I have read about down the other way?) after
that one level with two down staircases (I am there now, Valk clvl 6
2d level of mines). Should I be skipping these for now until I am
stronger? If I have to see all my ghosts I will have quite a few in
these mines (and one a "wererat ghost of Felwynne"...he died there
too. That would be an interesting combination!)
This game is such a blast! I did make it to minetown once but only
had one hitpoint... tombstone said "killed by a kitten".... d'oh!!!
Martin Read
Felwynne <felw...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I have finally started to move along in the game and have now started
>running into ghosts of my former characters. I notice they are easy
>to run away from but can they be "killed"? Every time I try I get
>"You miss Felwynne's ghost". I notice my pet, Ruffie, always misses
>too. I am playing a Valk and have no magic items except a wand of
>opening right now. Are they only conquered through magic?
No, they just have quite a good AC.
m.
--
\_\/_/| Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\ / | though the cause is true, cannot quite break through this sign of
\/ | winter world awaits the thaw, melt the ground before they can be
------+ buried --- Manuskript, "No Reprise"
Robert
"Felwynne" <felw...@yahoo.com> schreef in bericht
news:2288b429.0208...@posting.google.com...
> I have finally started to move along in the game and have now started
> running into ghosts of my former characters. I notice they are easy
> to run away from but can they be "killed"? Every time I try I get
> "You miss Felwynne's ghost". I notice my pet, Ruffie, always misses
> too. I am playing a Valk and have no magic items except a wand of
> opening right now. Are they only conquered through magic?
No. They're just very hard to hit, being a ghost and all. It is possible to
destroy them but it takes a lot of time.
> Next, sometimes you get the message "Are you sure you want to attack
> the foo?". I skip by the "friendlies" but I notice my pet will kill
> (and eat) many of them. Does this count against me?
Don't think so. Correct me if I'm wrong here.
>
> I have been bitten by wererats before and, well, have become one too.
> Lycanthropy, oh what fun! I tried continuing using #monster but with
> all the changes back and forth ultimately I was slain. How can a
> character recover from this affliction?
A unicorn horn might help. Praying too, but I wouldn't do that until you're
sure there's no other way. A certain ring (trying to be as little spoily as
possible) will prevent lycanthropy.
>
> I try not to use spoilers so I guess I am looking for rough hints or
> somewhat veiled clues. A play style question: I always wind up in
> the mines (is the Sokoban I have read about down the other way?) after
> that one level with two down staircases (I am there now, Valk clvl 6
> 2d level of mines). Should I be skipping these for now until I am
> stronger?
I'd say it's safe to go in the mines when your HP is between 35 and 50. if
you're a gnome you can go in immediatly since the major mines-population
won't attack you. Be sure to get a pick-axe and basic armour there. You will
not find Sokoban in the mines.
> If I have to see all my ghosts I will have quite a few in
> these mines (and one a "wererat ghost of Felwynne"...he died there
> too. That would be an interesting combination!)
>
> This game is such a blast! I did make it to minetown once but only
> had one hitpoint... tombstone said "killed by a kitten".... d'oh!!!
Kittens are actually quite nasty, not as weak as you might expect :)
Congressman Thompson
> I have finally started to move along in the game and have now started
> running into ghosts of my former characters. I notice they are easy
> to run away from but can they be "killed"? Every time I try I get
> "You miss Felwynne's ghost". I notice my pet, Ruffie, always misses
> too. I am playing a Valk and have no magic items except a wand of
> opening right now. Are they only conquered through magic?
Magic can be effective. So can hard steel, a trusty fist or foot, or a
well-placed club. Or a rock.
> Next, sometimes you get the message "Are you sure you want to attack
> the foo?". I skip by the "friendlies" but I notice my pet will kill
> (and eat) many of them. Does this count against me?
The Gods recognize a death by pets as an act of... themselves, and will
not hold you accountable.
> I have been bitten by wererats before and, well, have become one too.
> Lycanthropy, oh what fun! I tried continuing using #monster but with
> all the changes back and forth ultimately I was slain. How can a
> character recover from this affliction?
Have you tried a herbal remedy?
> I try not to use spoilers so I guess I am looking for rough hints or
> somewhat veiled clues. A play style question: I always wind up in
> the mines (is the Sokoban I have read about down the other way?) after
> that one level with two down staircases (I am there now, Valk clvl 6
> 2d level of mines). Should I be skipping these for now until I am
> stronger? If I have to see all my ghosts I will have quite a few in
> these mines (and one a "wererat ghost of Felwynne"...he died there
> too. That would be an interesting combination!)
>
> This game is such a blast! I did make it to minetown once but only
> had one hitpoint... tombstone said "killed by a kitten".... d'oh!!!
I gotta say, I'm on a hiatus from playing right now (due to having 1st
ascension recently), but your obvious enthusiasm is contagious. I'll
reach for my unicorn horn, but keep on having fun with it!
One little note, WRT ghosts; ghosts mark the spot where an adventurer
died, and also include whatever goodies the adventurer was carrying.
There are, of course, some risks in looting these piles (you may become
too attached to what you find there), but for many of us they are
irresistible. If all you play (and all that are killed) are Valks, you
will only find the goods of Valks.
Thompson
Stuart Fraser
news:2288b429.0208...@posting.google.com...
> I have finally started to move along in the game and have now started
> running into ghosts of my former characters. I notice they are easy
> to run away from but can they be "killed"? Every time I try I get
> "You miss Felwynne's ghost". I notice my pet, Ruffie, always misses
> too. I am playing a Valk and have no magic items except a wand of
> opening right now. Are they only conquered through magic?
Ask a newbie question, get a newbie answer.
No, they're just hard to hit. Perseverance will be rewarded here.
>
> Next, sometimes you get the message "Are you sure you want to attack
> the foo?". I skip by the "friendlies" but I notice my pet will kill
> (and eat) many of them. Does this count against me?
No...however, there is a way to stop your pet from doing this if you really
want to - and, sometimes, you will want to.
>
> I have been bitten by wererats before and, well, have become one too.
> Lycanthropy, oh what fun! I tried continuing using #monster but with
> all the changes back and forth ultimately I was slain. How can a
> character recover from this affliction?
All of the ways to deal with this affliction that fantasy writers have come
up with (as far as I'm aware) work in Nethack, with differing degrees of
permanence.
It has been saif that there's a ring that will help you here, as well. I
disagree, IMHO, there are *two* rings that a lycanthrope would find useful.
One is somewhat rarer than the other, but a lot more useful.
>
> I try not to use spoilers
Interesting. You are making the game a *lot* harder for yourself - Nethack
is exceptionally deep and very complex. I don't like spoliers but I
compromised on not using the Gazetteers or monster manuals, just the object
and strategy based ones.
>so I guess I am looking for rough hints or
> somewhat veiled clues. A play style question: I always wind up in
> the mines (is the Sokoban I have read about down the other way?) after
> that one level with two down staircases (I am there now, Valk clvl 6
> 2d level of mines). Should I be skipping these for now until I am
> stronger? If I have to see all my ghosts I will have quite a few in
> these mines (and one a "wererat ghost of Felwynne"...he died there
> too. That would be an interesting combination!)
Not all of your players will necessarily leave ghosts behind...read section
6.4 of the Guidebook (surely that's permissible) to learn why. I don't think
ghosts keep their lycanthropy in death.
>
> This game is such a blast!
Definitely is!
> I did make it to minetown once but only had one hitpoint... >tombstone
said "killed by a kitten".... d'oh!!!
I remember my first Elven Ranger (fourth or fifth character, I think) made
Minetown by falling through a trapdoor into it. He had 60-odd hitpoints and
still died there. There are four schools of thought on the mines:
Go there immeaditely you find the entrance, descend as far as minetown for a
particular purpose involving the temple (often referred to as the Minetown
Altar Dash, and unless you're a gnome or a dwarf then MAD is a reasonable
way to describe it), go back up and head for Sokoban.
As above but wait until you reach level 5* or so to descend
Wait until reaching XL 5 or so, then descend all the way to Mine's End,
which contains several expensive treasures and one that, if your god is
with it, will be priceless.
Ignore the mines for now and do Sokoban first (my preferred) - Sokoban does
not contain powerful enemies unless you count your own stupidity (which is
often enough) and has a useful goody at the end
*If you're a lawful valk, then there's something else useful to do once you
reach level 5. Your starting longsword is a reasonable weapon, but there is
a way to improve it. Think King Arthur.
Good luck, and I'll race you to that first ascension!
Stuart
--
"Put me in the company of any two people at random - they
will invariably have something to teach me."
Eva R. Myers
> In article <2288b429.0208...@posting.google.com>,
> Felwynne <felw...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >I have finally started to move along in the game and have now started
> >running into ghosts of my former characters. I notice they are easy
> >to run away from but can they be "killed"? Every time I try I get
> >"You miss Felwynne's ghost". I notice my pet, Ruffie, always misses
> >too. I am playing a Valk and have no magic items except a wand of
> >opening right now. Are they only conquered through magic?
>
> No, they just have quite a good AC.
I once had the impression that ghosts could be literally impossible to
hit for a beginning character. (I believe it was an Elf in 3.2.2.)
Being a Valkyrie should help, since you start with a +1 weapon and
good strength and dexterity. If you run away from the ghost and come
back later, you'll probably have a better chance of hitting it.
The remainder of this post is highly spoily, with detailed
calculations to see whether it's likely that the ghost is literally
impossible to hit right now.
According to Dylan's weapons spoiler, your chance to hit is based on
the sum of the following factors. (I've ignored any which don't seem
to apply here.)
The target monster's AC = -5. (Can ghosts wear armour? If so, it
could be even less than that.)
Your experience level ~ 5 (arbitrary assumption).
+1 bonus for attacking directly.
+1 bonus for Strength (assuming it's in the range 17 - 18/50).
+1 bonus for Dexterity (arbitrarily assuming it's 15).
+1 for your +1 weapon.
(Um, you're not using two weapons at once, are you? That would carry
a severe penalty.)
That all adds up to 4 - i.e. if you roll a d20 and the result is less
than 4, you will hit, otherwise you will miss. So if all the
arbitrary assumptions are correct, you have a 3/20 chance of hitting
the ghost. (OTOH, my Elf really could have had zero chance of
hitting, if she didn't have the bonuses for Str, Dex or an enchanted
weapon.)
Eva.
--
Eva Myers, Computer Officer, Statistical Laboratory, University of Cambridge
Email: erm...@cam.ac.uk WWW: http://www.statslab.cam.ac.uk/~eva/
Ignorance and deception can't save anybody. *Knowing* saves them.
Felwynne
> >
> > I try not to use spoilers
>
> Interesting. You are making the game a *lot* harder for yourself - Nethack
> is exceptionally deep and very complex. I don't like spoliers but I
> compromised on not using the Gazetteers or monster manuals, just the object
> and strategy based ones.
specific, I am not looking for direct answers as to what to do with a
certain item, but basic strategy, like the guidebook but a tad bit
more expanded.
If I have to see all my ghosts I will have quite a few in
> > these mines (and one a "wererat ghost of Felwynne"...he died there
> > too. That would be an interesting combination!)
>
> Not all of your players will necessarily leave ghosts behind...read section
> 6.4 of the Guidebook (surely that's permissible) to learn why. I don't think
> ghosts keep their lycanthropy in death.
>
I was kidding on the lycanthropy in ghosts. Just thought the
combination would be interesting....
> *If you're a lawful valk, then there's something else useful to do once you
> reach level 5. Your starting longsword is a reasonable weapon, but there is
> a way to improve it. Think King Arthur.
Yeah, hints like these! "Think King Arthur" are what I do not mind.
Do the aforementioned strategy guides work similarly?
>
> Good luck, and I'll race you to that first ascension!
>
> Stuart
Sounds good. As for Valks, I am trying them as the guidebook
recommended them for starting players, although I have enjoyed just
hitting random... wasn't quite sure what to do with the tourist so he
died quickly...a newt of all things...
And the race is on :-D
Boudewijn Waijers
> If you run away from the ghost and come
> back later, you'll probably have a better chance of hitting it.
Before you leave it alone, lure it away at least one space from the place
where you found it. All its former stuff will be there, for you to take with
you. Take it to an altar first, because most of it will be cursed, and you
wouldn't want to use some of that stuff.
--
Boudewijn Waijers -- www.win.tue.nl/~kroisos
PP++++: My name is Efembe.
Kimmo Savolainen
> *If you're a lawful valk, then there's something else useful to do once you
> reach level 5. Your starting longsword is a reasonable weapon, but there is
> a way to improve it. Think King Arthur.
Additional hint... just don't try to jam that longsword into a
boulder... 8-)
--
kimmo.sa...@uta.eisikanautaa.fi
^removethat^
Kimmo's blog : http://www.uta.fi/~ks71185/blog/
Mark Johnson
>>[Snip]
>>
>>>I try not to use spoilers
>>>
>>Interesting. You are making the game a *lot* harder for yourself - Nethack
>>is exceptionally deep and very complex. I don't like spoliers but I
>>compromised on not using the Gazetteers or monster manuals, just the object
>>and strategy based ones.
>>
> Oh, where would I get the strategy based style. I guess, to be more
> specific, I am not looking for direct answers as to what to do with a
> certain item, but basic strategy, like the guidebook but a tad bit
> more expanded.
>
I consider Maniac's Ascension Guide (MAG) to be quite spoily, but it
does have a lot of the strategy you are asking for. Check it at...
http://homepage.mac.com/mhjohnson/mag-r1.html
It has sections describing general methods as well as sections that
address each part of the dungeon. I tried to keep a lot of the specific
details in the original spoilers and raise the level of the guide to how
to handle a variety of situations.
>>*If you're a lawful valk, then there's something else useful to do once you
>>reach level 5. Your starting longsword is a reasonable weapon, but there is
>>a way to improve it. Think King Arthur.
>>
>
> Yeah, hints like these! "Think King Arthur" are what I do not mind.
> Do the aforementioned strategy guides work similarly?
>
Hmm. In the case of Excalibur, MAG mentions it as an artifact, its
effects on the named demons in Gehennom, as well as how to get it. If
that is too much, don't read this guide.
>>Good luck, and I'll race you to that first ascension!
>>
>>Stuart
>>
>
> Sounds good. As for Valks, I am trying them as the guidebook
> recommended them for starting players, although I have enjoyed just
> hitting random... wasn't quite sure what to do with the tourist so he
> died quickly...a newt of all things...
>
The method I use to best effect (for me) is to be a pacifist early in
the game and take my large pet to Mine Town to buy protection. That
keeps the monsters at a lower level while I get my AC to a good level.
It may often lead to an early death - YMMV. It takes a *lot* of patience
to do this and may not be best for you.
Unlike some people, I am very conservative at reading scrolls and
quaffing potions - I *always* know what they do before I use them.
--Mark
Stuart Fraser
[snippage]
> Oh, where would I get the strategy based style. I guess, to be more
> specific, I am not looking for direct answers as to what to do with a
> certain item, but basic strategy, like the guidebook but a tad bit
> more expanded.
I am slowly writing a review of the available spoilers and guides, from a
newbie's perspective. But there's a lot of them, so it's taking some time.
Mikko Saari's Absolute Beginners Guide
(http://www.melankolia.net/nethack/nethack.guide.html) is pretty useful,
especially the first section, which is some basic tips, notably the first
commandment of survival (Nethack is not Quake).
I'd suggest Wes Irby's at http://www.nethack.de/spoiler/advice.txt for not
spoiling the game too much, and if you decide that you really do need help,
the most powerful of all spoilers IMO is David Damerell's
Object Identification Spoiler http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/id_faq.html,
which really does gie you a flying start. This, in some ways, is very spoily
indeed, but in others isn't, since it doesn't actually tell you what to do
with an object, just how to work out what it is...(this is often much of the
challenge, though - I imagine you can figure out what to do with a /oDeath
yourself)
The list of commands at http://www.digital-eel.com/zdim/freegames2/NCCL.htm
is also pretty useful for a newbie, it's quicker than the Guidebook,
basically.
In addition to which, rgrn thinks of everything. Eventually. Well, almost.
> I was kidding on the lycanthropy in ghosts. Just thought the
> combination would be interesting....
Amusing, certainly.
>
> > *If you're a lawful valk, then there's something else useful to do once
you
> > reach level 5. Your starting longsword is a reasonable weapon, but there
is
> > a way to improve it. Think King Arthur.
>
> Yeah, hints like these! "Think King Arthur" are what I do not mind.
> Do the aforementioned strategy guides work similarly?
Sort of...most of the hints are slightly less vague than this one. One of
the best ways to learn more other than through these guides is to learn (or
apply the knowledge you already have) of the fantasy mythoses that Nethack
draws from. Here, Dylan O'Donnel's Bibligoraphy of the Nethack database
(http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/nh/bibliography.html) is useful, as it
gives an idea of the range of the sources Nethack has.
> Sounds good. As for Valks, I am trying them as the guidebook
> recommended them for starting players, although I have enjoyed just
> hitting random... wasn't quite sure what to do with the tourist so he
> died quickly...a newt of all things...
No, I can't stand Tourists either. Apparently they're really powerful later
on, but mine never survive that far. I think my first ascension will be a
valk - I'm playing a lot of Val-???-Fem-Law at the moment, but I've also
done reasonably with Barbarians, Rangers and Wizards.
>
> And the race is on :-D
Indeed. Considering I had a head start and I'm more prepared to use
spoilers, you may be at a disadvantage here, however, a wise man once said:
"If you're in a fair fight, your tactics suck!"
Stuart
--
"Put me in the company of any two people at random - they
will invariably have something to teach me."
-Master Kong, Analects
David Damerell
>I once had the impression that ghosts could be literally impossible to
>hit for a beginning character. (I believe it was an Elf in 3.2.2.)
As I suspect you know, NetHack preserves the D&Dism that one has a 5%
chance of an automatic hit no matter the circumstances. However, it's
possible that with a weedy weapon the ghost might heal faster than
you could damage it. :-)
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?
Tina Hall
[looking for tips]
Most of your questions have already been answered, there's
something I haven't seen mentioned, though.
> I try not to use spoilers so I guess I am looking for rough
> hints or somewhat veiled clues.
A rough hint of how to get veiled clues in the game:
They say that there's a woman who will share mystic knowledge for
the right price.
I just think that she'll provide just the kind of hints you want,
and she's there especially for people who don't want straight
spoilers, since you evade them you might not know about that (and
I have a strong suspicion that you've never even seen her yet)...
Some general stuff for strategy: Play careful, don't rush, take
as few risks as possible, try to know what you've got and use
that to the best effect.
--
Tina
(insufficiently chaotic): Level 10 HP 61(63) AC 10, confused.
________________________________________________________________
Emails: <Tina...@railroad.robin.de> only.
Eva R. Myers
> Eva R. Myers <erm...@tcm30.phy.cam.ac.uk> wrote:
> >I once had the impression that ghosts could be literally impossible to
> >hit for a beginning character. (I believe it was an Elf in 3.2.2.)
>
> As I suspect you know, NetHack preserves the D&Dism that one has a 5%
> chance of an automatic hit no matter the circumstances. However, it's
> possible that with a weedy weapon the ghost might heal faster than
> you could damage it. :-)
I'd heard of always hitting on a natural 20 in the context of D&D. I
wondered whether it applied to Nethack, but I looked at weap-340.txt
and all it says is:
"A die from 1 to 20 is rolled and compared to the to-hit total. If the
die roll is less than the to-hit total (or equal when throwing or
kicking), you hit the monster and inflict damage as described below;
otherwise, you miss the monster."
No mention of automatic hits there (which doesn't mean they don't
happen, just that I'd like a reference to the part of the source code
where they do).
David Damerell
>David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
>>As I suspect you know, NetHack preserves the D&Dism that one has a 5%
>>chance of an automatic hit no matter the circumstances. However, it's
Curiously, although I would have sworn that this was the case, I cannot
find it in either 3.4 or my old 3.2.2 source. I must apologise for
misleading you.
Nan Wang
> I have finally started to move along in the game and have now started
> running into ghosts of my former characters. I notice they are easy
> to run away from but can they be "killed"? Every time I try I get
> "You miss Felwynne's ghost". I notice my pet, Ruffie, always misses
> too. I am playing a Valk and have no magic items except a wand of
> opening right now. Are they only conquered through magic?
It seems to me for a new character, kicking might do more damage to a ghost
than attacking with their weapon.
Felwynne
> Felwynne wrote:
>
> [looking for tips]
>
> Most of your questions have already been answered, there's
> something I haven't seen mentioned, though.
>
> > I try not to use spoilers so I guess I am looking for rough
> > hints or somewhat veiled clues.
>
> A rough hint of how to get veiled clues in the game:
>
> They say that there's a woman who will share mystic knowledge for
> the right price.
>
> I just think that she'll provide just the kind of hints you want,
> and she's there especially for people who don't want straight
> spoilers, since you evade them you might not know about that (and
> I have a strong suspicion that you've never even seen her yet)...
Actually, I think I did find her once. I entered a room with four
fountains with an oracle in the center. I was too low on zorkmids
thanks to a prior theft a while earlier so I could do nothing with
her. Living up to the low Int score, quaffing sounded tempting, oops,
the next thing I remember I am in a room full of snakes...DYWYPI?
> Some general stuff for strategy: Play careful, don't rush, take
> as few risks as possible, try to know what you've got and use
> that to the best effect.
Felwynne passed on again last night in minetown. It was only the
second time I made it there (killed by a kitten the first time!).
Last night, I found the altar. It belonged to Loki. The priest
started screaming as soon as I went in so I left to think about what
to do next. Ran into "light" which exploded and left me blind. I
wound up being killed by a giant beetle....
Felwynne's daughter, who, having heard nothing of her father, started
down shortly thereafter (another Valk)is trying to be MUCH more
careful. I have noticed a problem I have is keeping track of what is
going on. I have realigned the messages on the win version of 3.4 to
be at the bottom as I discovered I miss too many "hungry" tags. I
have been working at keeping my pet with me. He seems to be quite
helpful at times. How can I tell if he is improving? Is this what a
stethoscope will do? I tried 'a'pplying it to different things but
not my pet as he got killed before I got it the one time (a couple
characters ago.... I also watch my pet more carefully around armor
etc... "moves only reluctantly" I figured is a bad thing (cursed) as I
read in the guide.
The altar I found...it said it was for Loki...my god was Tyr... I
assume then that I could not use it as it was?
Oh, so much more to learn.... I have learned not to try and kill
everything... I evade lots of things now. I found my pet will take
care of a few things for me, such a helpful little dog.
OK, one more, as it has been bugging me... what is Polypiling? I see
it referred to but have not been able to figure out what, exactly, it
is.
Thanks...
Tina Hall
[where to get veiled hints in the game]
>
> Actually, I think I did find her once. I entered a room with
> four fountains with an oracle in the center. I was too low on
> zorkmids thanks to a prior theft a while earlier so I could do
> nothing with her. Living up to the low Int score, quaffing
> sounded tempting, oops, the next thing I remember I am in a
> room full of snakes...DYWYPI?
That's the RNG teaching you a lesson. ;) Playing with fountains
is one of the risks to evade, early on.
> Felwynne passed on again last night in minetown. It was only
> the second time I made it there (killed by a kitten the first
> time!).
Killed by a kitten sounds funny, but they're really nothing like
the cute little buggers found in RL. Don't worry, you're not
alone in having such a 'embarrasing' entry in the logfile. :)
(I've got a full 37 of them so far, and only one was 'while
helpless'.)
> Last night, I found the altar. It belonged to Loki. The priest
> started screaming as soon as I went in so I left to think about
> what to do next.
I am a bit puzzled as to why the priest would start screaming, if
you've never even met him before...
> Felwynne's daughter, who, having heard nothing of her father,
> started down shortly thereafter (another Valk)is trying to be
> MUCH more careful. I have noticed a problem I have is keeping
> track of what is going on. I have realigned the messages on
> the win version of 3.4 to be at the bottom as I discovered I
> miss too many "hungry" tags.
Learn to read the messages (they're there for a reason), and
don't just fix your eyes on the middle of the screen. You not
only get the tag, but a message about getting hungry too. If
you've missed a message, press 'ctrl+p' to check the Message
History. It's one of the most-often pressed keys in my games when
I just wander around. I see a message blur past between two
steps, and then stop to check what it actually was.
One of the good things about Nethack is, that you can take your
time, you don't have to rush along like in some real-time game
where the clock ticks against you.
While you stop to read the messages, check your status line too,
most importantly the Hp. IIRC you had only one left when you met
that kitten. It would be better for your health if you don't go
on exploring unknown territories with low Hp, but restore them
first while in reasonable safety. If in dire trouble, consider
what some RL people might do in a situation when there's no
apparent way out - it might just work, depending on your faith.
> I have been working at keeping my pet with me. He seems to be
> quite helpful at times. How can I tell if he is improving? Is
> this what a stethoscope will do?
Yes. There's also another way, which will reveal some more
information.
> The altar I found...it said it was for Loki...my god was
> Tyr... I assume then that I could not use it as it was?
Depends on what you want to use the altar for. Things that don't
alter the altar are fine with the priest. As mentioned, I'm
rather puzzled why the priest didn't like you, they're usually
quite friendly and even helpful (see Beginners Guide if you want
to know more, if you haven't already, or of course, you can ask
for even more details).
> OK, one more, as it has been bugging me... what is Polypiling?
> I see it referred to but have not been able to figure out
> what, exactly, it is.
Pile stuff up, and then poly(-morph) it. (Just experiment with
it, or if you want more information just ask. :) )
okb
>
> As I suspect you know, NetHack preserves the D&Dism that one has a 5%
> chance of an automatic hit no matter the circumstances.
That was a non-official variation, along with things like "critical
hits", "fumbles" and mana. I read some editorials by EGG himself and
then editor of Dragon magazine, Kim Mohan about how these variations
were no longer AD&D, any more than playing Monopoly with money on the
"Free Parking" square was still Monopoly(TM).
I understand the 3rd Edition actually encourages variations.
[ok]
Philip Kendall
okb <okbl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message news:<Wmn*nG...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>...
>>
>> As I suspect you know, NetHack preserves the D&Dism that one has a 5%
>> chance of an automatic hit no matter the circumstances.
>
>That was a non-official variation,
From my 2nd Ed PHB, Combat chapter,
"Impossible To-Hit Numbers
[...]
No matter what a character needs to hit, a roll of 20 is /always/
considered a hit and a roll of 1 is /always/ a miss, unless the DM rules
otherwise."
(p90-91 in my TSR copy).
Phil
--
Philip Kendall <pa...@srcf.ucam.org>
http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~pak21/
Felwynne
> > started screaming as soon as I went in so I left to think about
> > what to do next.
>
> I am a bit puzzled as to why the priest would start screaming, if
> you've never even met him before...
>
what do I want? I had never found a priest, remembered I was Lawful,
remembered Loki was not quite lawful (rather chaotic, IIRC). So I
tried some discretion, or so I thought. I am almost there again and I
am rereading the Guide sections again. I will get that amulet!!! I
will, I will, I will!!!
David Damerell
>>chance of an automatic hit no matter the circumstances.
>That was a non-official variation,
Not, it isn't. Someone's already mentioned that it's in 2nd Edition; my
1st Edition DMG, page 70, mentions in passing that natural 20s are hits. I
was wrong about NetHack, but not about D&D. :-)
>hits", "fumbles" and mana. I read some editorials by EGG himself and
>then editor of Dragon magazine, Kim Mohan about how these variations
>were no longer AD&D, any more than playing Monopoly with money on the
>"Free Parking" square was still Monopoly(TM).
Digression; the curious thing about Monopoly is that most people a)
complain that it fails to terminate and b) play with house rules like that
one that cause it to fail to terminate.
Jane Williams
>ti...@typhoon.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote in message news:<MSGID_2=3A2433=2F888.111=40fidonet...@fidonet.org>...
>> > Last night, I found the altar. It belonged to Loki. The priest
>> > started screaming as soon as I went in so I left to think about
>> > what to do next.
>>
>> I am a bit puzzled as to why the priest would start screaming, if
>> you've never even met him before...
>>
>I may have mistaken the way he said it. IIRC he "boomed" something of
>what do I want?
Do you give all your characters the same name? IF this was a bones level
of a previous, same-name character, it's possible that *they'd* done
something to annoy the priest, and he confused the two of you.
Tina Hall
> okb <okbl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I read some editorials by EGG himself and then editor of
>> Dragon magazine, Kim Mohan about how these variations were no
>> longer AD&D, any more than playing Monopoly with money on the
>> "Free Parking" square was still Monopoly(TM).
>
> Digression; the curious thing about Monopoly is that most
> people a) complain that it fails to terminate and b) play with
> house rules like that one that cause it to fail to terminate.
By fail to terminate you mean not come to an end? This is the
first I ever hear about that.
What is odd in this respect is, the 'money on Free Parking' is
part of how a friend and I used to play it, and it helped rather
than hindered the end of a game. The end was just prolonged by
credits between players, IIRC it was usually over after one owed
the other a few tens of thousands Monopoly Marks, or it was time
for me to cycle home. (Except in one case it was over when my
mother tumbled the board after I accused her of cheating, which
she had done too. <g>)
--
A. Tina "summer stinks" Hall - Spring is an atrocity, but summer
is like waking up to find you spent the night with Demogorgon,
already feeling deathly sick, and all your gear is spread across
various bermuda piles. (Emails: <Tina...@railroad.robin.de>)
Dayv!
> David Damerell wrote:
>> okb <okbl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> I read some editorials by EGG himself and then editor of
>>> Dragon magazine, Kim Mohan about how these variations were no
>>> longer AD&D, any more than playing Monopoly with money on the
>>> "Free Parking" square was still Monopoly(TM).
>>
>> Digression; the curious thing about Monopoly is that most
>> people a) complain that it fails to terminate and b) play with
>> house rules like that one that cause it to fail to terminate.
>
> By fail to terminate you mean not come to an end? This is the
> first I ever hear about that.
>
> What is odd in this respect is, the 'money on Free Parking' is
> part of how a friend and I used to play it, and it helped rather
> than hindered the end of a game. The end was just prolonged by
> credits between players, IIRC it was usually over after one owed
> the other a few tens of thousands Monopoly Marks, or it was time
> for me to cycle home.
Well, extending a line of credit to another player is another obvious
way to extend the game indefinitely. The problem with Monopoly is that
it's a game of attrition; once you've been bankrupted, there's nothing
more for you to do while everyone else continues playing.
--
-Dayv!
"You want a toe? I can get you a toe, believe me."
Felwynne
I had been giving them the same name.... Once I ran into a ghost of
myself, I stopped doing that because it was confusing to me, not to
think about the game! This was only the second time I have even made
it to minetown. I still think I may have misread (read more into) the
message and just panicked. I knew the altar was important so I wanted
to think about what I was going to do first, and died instead.
Yesterday was very bad! 2 very quick deaths.... I just had to try an
un-id'd wand.... the fire bounced off the wall and bye-bye cruel
world... all on Dlvl 1! Did I learn? Nope! Next character: Level
2, wand of cold bounced.... oh well...
Stuart Fraser
There is a way to identify wands without zapping them, and a way to zap
wands without getting hit on the rebound. For the latter, angle of incidence
= angle of reflection. Think about it.
Dylan O'Donnell
> There is a way to identify wands without zapping them, and a way to zap
> wands without getting hit on the rebound. For the latter, angle of incidence
> = angle of reflection. Think about it.
Though there's still a 5% chance that it'll come straight back at you.
The dungeon walls aren't perfectly smooth, after all.
--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Note that computers turn us into aliens." :
: -- Zarf, out of context :
David Damerell
>>people a) complain that it fails to terminate and b) play with
>>house rules like that one that cause it to fail to terminate.
>By fail to terminate you mean not come to an end? This is the
>first I ever hear about that.
It is very common with house rules that cycle money that should have left
the game back into the game.
>than hindered the end of a game. The end was just prolonged by
>credits between players,
... another example of a house rule that causes the game to fail to
Dayv!
> "Stuart Fraser" <stu...@isfraser.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>> There is a way to identify wands without zapping them, and a way to zap
>> wands without getting hit on the rebound. For the latter, angle of incidence
>> = angle of reflection. Think about it.
>
> Though there's still a 5% chance that it'll come straight back at you.
> The dungeon walls aren't perfectly smooth, after all.
Hmm, now that explains some behavior I had been trying to pin down...
Felwynne
> > okb <okbl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> I read some editorials by EGG himself and then editor of
> >> Dragon magazine, Kim Mohan about how these variations were no
> >> longer AD&D, any more than playing Monopoly with money on the
> >> "Free Parking" square was still Monopoly(TM).
> >
> > Digression; the curious thing about Monopoly is that most
> > people a) complain that it fails to terminate and b) play with
> > house rules like that one that cause it to fail to terminate.
>
> By fail to terminate you mean not come to an end? This is the
> first I ever hear about that.
>
> What is odd in this respect is, the 'money on Free Parking' is
> part of how a friend and I used to play it, and it helped rather
> than hindered the end of a game. The end was just prolonged by
> credits between players, IIRC it was usually over after one owed
> the other a few tens of thousands Monopoly Marks, or it was time
> for me to cycle home. (Except in one case it was over when my
> mother tumbled the board after I accused her of cheating, which
> she had done too. <g>)
My kids and I got bored with the endlessness of monopoly also. We
solved it in a more deviant way. We used our D&D characters to run
around the board. In addition to houses and hotels (which were lairs
and castles) you could purchase "protection" in the form of kobolds,
goblins, orcs etc. You could also attempt to defeat the other player
if you landed on the same square. Add a few spell cards to the
chance/community chest decks and even some uniques to "hire" and the
war was on. If you landed on someone's property you could fight the
"protection forces" (if any) or just pay the rent. If you won the
battle looting began. On your own squares you could regain hitpoints
by paying rent to "free parking" which was changed to "found hidden
treasure". Bizarre game, but fun... Luxury tax was an ancient dragon
you had to charm/bribe your way past....
okb
> David Damerell wrote:
> >
> > people a) complain that it fails to terminate and b) play with
> > house rules like that one that cause it to fail to terminate.
>
> By fail to terminate you mean not come to an end? This is the
> first I ever hear about that.
Yes. Monopoly has a reputation for taking hours and hours (and hours).
I once settled down to a game with someone who had that idea, and beat
her in about 20 minutes. It really is various "house rules" that
prolong the game.
> What is odd in this respect is, the 'money on Free Parking' is
> part of how a friend and I used to play it, and it helped rather
> than hindered the end of a game. The end was just prolonged by
> credits between players, IIRC it was usually over after one owed
> the other a few tens of thousands Monopoly Marks, or it was time
> for me to cycle home. (Except in one case it was over when my
> mother tumbled the board after I accused her of cheating, which
> she had done too. <g>)
LOL
[ok]
Raisse the Thaumaturge
> Yes. Monopoly has a reputation for taking hours and hours (and hours).
> I once settled down to a game with someone who had that idea, and beat
> her in about 20 minutes. It really is various "house rules" that
> prolong the game.
Not in our house; in our house it's the fact that most players are under
nine (8 1/2 and two instances of almost 7) and not very good at
calculating yet. I'm usually the Bank, but they still have to do a lot
of the arithmetic themselves.
We usually start at 7:30 or so, finish at 9, convert everyone's assets
to money and count that. It's not uncommon that one of the
six-year-olds wins.
Irina
--
ir...@valdyas.org (myself) http://www.valdyas.org/irina
Status of Raisse (piously neutral): Level 8 HP 63(67) AC -3, fast.
okb
> okb <okbl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
> >>As I suspect you know, NetHack preserves the D&Dism that one has a 5%
> >>chance of an automatic hit no matter the circumstances.
> >That was a non-official variation,
>
> Not, it isn't. Someone's already mentioned that it's in 2nd Edition; my
I was talking about 1st Ed. I had stopped playing by 2nd.
> 1st Edition DMG, page 70, mentions in passing that natural 20s are hits. I
> was wrong about NetHack, but not about D&D. :-)
<rushes to garage>
<digs under Atari 2600>
<blows dust off of DMG 1stEd>
<turns to page 70>
Well, I'll be...
Whether in retrospect or at the time, I had classed the natural-20
with critical hits and fumbles and the like.
> >hits", "fumbles" and mana. I read some editorials by EGG himself and
> >then editor of Dragon magazine, Kim Mohan about how these variations
> >were no longer AD&D, any more than playing Monopoly with money on the
> >"Free Parking" square was still Monopoly(TM).
>
> Digression; the curious thing about Monopoly is that most people a)
> complain that it fails to terminate and b) play with house rules like that
> one that cause it to fail to terminate.
Yep. Actually, I find it to be generally true of "classic" board
games, that Americans don't really *know* the official rules. They
just know what they (mis)remember being taught. Every time I sit down
to one of these games (which isn't often), I read the manual. It only
takes a minute, and is usually very enlightening.
The only time that ever got me into trouble was with Diplomacy. I
could not, for the life of me, figure out how that was supposed to be
played.
[ok]
okb
> On Monday 19 August 2002 23:19 okb wrote:
>
> Not in our house; in our house it's the fact that most players are under
> nine (8 1/2 and two instances of almost 7) and not very good at
> calculating yet. I'm usually the Bank, but they still have to do a lot
> of the arithmetic themselves.
Very clever, mom.<s>
> We usually start at 7:30 or so, finish at 9, convert everyone's assets
> to money and count that. It's not uncommon that one of the
> six-year-olds wins.
So you play on a time-limit, then. Most of the games we played as kids
were "to the death". :-)
[ok]
Rowan Software
ti...@typhoon.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
<SNIPed monolopy stuff>
Play it for money 1/1000th of face value games are a lot shorter. :-)
Dave
--
Whoever lays a hand on me to govern me is a usurper and a tyrant,
I declare them my enemy. [Zounds]
http://surf.to/nethack
Toni Keskitalo
>"Stuart Fraser" <stu...@isfraser.fsnet.co.uk> writes:
>> There is a way to identify wands without zapping them, and a way to zap
>> wands without getting hit on the rebound. For the latter, angle of incidence
>> = angle of reflection. Think about it.
>
>Though there's still a 5% chance that it'll come straight back at you.
>The dungeon walls aren't perfectly smooth, after all.
Now that explains my recent death:
12 17917 0 8 8 -2 86 1 Rog Hum Mal Cha Clewi,killed by a bolt of cold
Not that he woudn't have died anyway, he'd read a cursed scroll of
create monster, not buc-tested -- when standing on an a co-aligned
altar! That's stupid! He survived a moment longer after reading a
scroll of earth, then the bolt of cold-zapping took place and the ray
was rebounding nicely...
Toni
--
# Replace .invalid with .fi for personal mail only #
Piotr Auksztulewicz
> I have been working at keeping my pet with me. He seems to be quite
> helpful at times. How can I tell if he is improving? Is this what a
> stethoscope will do? I tried 'a'pplying it to different things but
> not my pet as he got killed before I got it the one time (a couple
> characters ago....
Think what doctors do to check the health of their patients (which
strangely aren't always patient). There's also a wand with a much
more thorough effect. Deprived of both, you could always watch your
pet grow up (how do you think, where large cats come from?). You'll
be very proud of it whent it does.
> The altar I found...it said it was for Loki...my god was Tyr... I
> assume then that I could not use it as it was?
Well, priests don't like people who do bad things to altars of their
god. On the other hand they welcome any potentially new followers
and are generally very polite. Speaking frankly: it depends on what
you do to the altar.
Sayonara,
Malgond the Joshu
--
Piotr Auksztulewicz e-mail:na...@surname.net
Tina Hall
> ti...@typhoon.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>
> <SNIPed monolopy stuff>
>
> Play it for money 1/1000th of face value games are a lot
> shorter. :-)
Where would be the fun in that? I think that would rather take
all the rest fun out of the game. There are much nicer ways to
throw my money out the window, gambling doesn't even enter my
mind. :)
--
Tina the Loony St:10 Dx:6 Co:8 In:10 Wi:14 Ch:10 Chaotic
Home2:0 $0 HP:61(63) Pw:15(15) Ac:10 Exp:10/8191 T:>15379200
____________________________________________________________
Emails: <Tina...@railroad.robin.de> only.
Rast
<MSGID_2=3A2433=2F888.111=40fidonet...@fidonet.org>:
> Rowan Software wrote:
> > ti...@typhoon.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
> >
> > <SNIPed monolopy stuff>
> >
> > Play it for money 1/1000th of face value games are a lot
> > shorter. :-)
Starting money in Monopoly is $1500, which would only be a buck and a
half -- you'd need about six people just to make ten bucks on a game.
> Where would be the fun in that? I think that would rather take
> all the rest fun out of the game. There are much nicer ways to
> throw my money out the window, gambling doesn't even enter my
> mind. :)
http://www.dontsavekaryn.com/moneyburn50-50.jpg
--
"Do you think that they, with their Battles, Famine, Black Death
and Serfdom, were less enlightened than we are, with our Wars,
Blockade, Influenza and Conscription?" -- T. H. White
Dayv!
> Tina Hall wrote on Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:14:00 GMT+1 in article
> <MSGID_2=3A2433=2F888.111=40fidonet...@fidonet.org>:
>> >
>> > shorter. :-)
>
> Starting money in Monopoly is $1500, which would only be a buck and a
> half -- you'd need about six people just to make ten bucks on a game.
There's a bank as well, which would most likely have to be fed into by
the players at the start of the game.
Rowan Software
(Rast) wrote:
> Tina Hall wrote on Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:14:00 GMT+1 in article
> <MSGID_2=3A2433=2F888.111=40fidonet...@fidonet.org>:
> > Rowan Software wrote:
> > > ti...@typhoon.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
> > >
> > > <SNIPed monolopy stuff>
> > >
> > > Play it for money 1/1000th of face value games are a lot
> > > shorter. :-)
>
> Starting money in Monopoly is $1500, which would only be a buck and a
> half -- you'd need about six people just to make ten bucks on a game.
>
> > Where would be the fun in that? I think that would rather take
> > all the rest fun out of the game. There are much nicer ways to
> > throw my money out the window, gambling doesn't even enter my
> > mind. :)
>
> http://www.dontsavekaryn.com/moneyburn50-50.jpg
>
I though it was £2500, but it is a long time since I played,
Rast
82567.news.dfncis.de>:
> Rast <ra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Tina Hall wrote on Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:14:00 GMT+1 in article
> > <MSGID_2=3A2433=2F888.111=40fidonet...@fidonet.org>:
> >> >
> >> > Play it for money 1/1000th of face value games are a lot
> >> > shorter. :-)
> >
> > Starting money in Monopoly is $1500, which would only be a buck and a
> > half -- you'd need about six people just to make ten bucks on a game.
>
> There's a bank as well, which would most likely have to be fed into by
> the players at the start of the game.
And the remainder in the bank split out among the players at the end,
after the bank pays the winning player the value of his properties.
Much of the other players' money would end up in the bank instead of
with you.
Grande Puffo
> Dayv! wrote on 21 Aug 2002 11:29:44 GMT in article <ajvtj7$1eci62$1@ID-
> 82567.news.dfncis.de>:
> > Rast <ra...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > Tina Hall wrote on Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:14:00 GMT+1 in article
> > > <MSGID_2=3A2433=2F888.111=40fidonet...@fidonet.org>:
> > >> >
> > >> > Play it for money 1/1000th of face value games are a lot
> > >> > shorter. :-)
> > >
> > > Starting money in Monopoly is $1500, which would only be a buck and a
> > > half -- you'd need about six people just to make ten bucks on a game.
> >
> > There's a bank as well, which would most likely have to be fed into by
> > the players at the start of the game.
>
> And the remainder in the bank split out among the players at the end,
> after the bank pays the winning player the value of his properties.
> Much of the other players' money would end up in the bank instead of
> with you.
Isn't that like real life?
--
GP_Spukgestalt, killed by MS. Bobojali, the shopkeeper.
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins
Rowan Software <Da...@rowansoftware.spam.no.com> wrote:
>In article <MPG.17ccc8de8...@pnews.dmv.com>, ra...@hotmail.com
>(Rast) wrote:
>> Starting money in Monopoly is $1500, which would only be a buck and a
>> half -- you'd need about six people just to make ten bucks on a game.
>I though it was £2500, but it is a long time since I played,
2x500, 2x100, 2x50, 6x20, 5x10, 5x5, 5x1=1500
:)
hawk
--
Richard E. Hawkins, Asst. Prof. of Economics /"\ ASCII ribbon campaign
doc...@psu.edu Smeal 178 (814) 375-4700 \ / against HTML mail
These opinions will not be those of X and postings.
Penn State until it pays my retainer. / \
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins
okb <okbl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Yep. Actually, I find it to be generally true of "classic" board
>games, that Americans don't really *know* the official rules. They
>just know what they (mis)remember being taught. Every time I sit down
>to one of these games (which isn't often), I read the manual. It only
>takes a minute, and is usually very enlightening.
I was shocked once when someone demanded that I pay an extra 10% to
unmortgage a property. Sure enough, that's in the rules. I'd never
seen that before, and noone else I've ever asked was aware of this rule,
either . . .
okb
> In article <c0038135.02081...@posting.google.com>,
> okb <okbl...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I was shocked once when someone demanded that I pay an extra 10% to
> unmortgage a property. Sure enough, that's in the rules. I'd never
> seen that before, and noone else I've ever asked was aware of this rule,
> either . . .
In fairness, our board games are Parker Bros. (et al.) co-opting of
previous "freeware", in which the rules were probably as fluid as the
beer flowing amongst the players.<s>
[ok]
Rowan Software
> In article <memo.20020821...@rowan.compulink.co.uk>,
> Rowan Software <Da...@rowansoftware.spam.no.com> wrote:
> >In article <MPG.17ccc8de8...@pnews.dmv.com>,
> ra...@hotmail.com >(Rast) wrote:
> >> Starting money in Monopoly is $1500, which would only be a buck and
> > a >half -- you'd need about six people just to make ten bucks on a
> > game.
>
> >I though it was £2500, but it is a long time since I played,
>
> 2x500, 2x100, 2x50, 6x20, 5x10, 5x5, 5x1=1500
>
Ta!
Donald Welsh
(Rowan Software) wrote:
>In article <MSGID_2=3A2433=2F888.111=40fidonet...@fidonet.org>,
>ti...@typhoon.kruemel.org (Tina Hall) wrote:
>
><SNIPed Monopoly stuff>
>
>Play it for money 1/1000th of face value games are a lot shorter. :-)
The money supply in Monopoly is unbounded; the bank is authorized to
print more currency if need be.
Digression: OTOH the construction industry is limited, and "housing
shortages" are part of the game.
Dr. Richard E. Hawkins
Donald Welsh <dwe...@nospam.melbpc.org.au> wrote:
>>Play it for money 1/1000th of face value games are a lot shorter. :-)
>The money supply in Monopoly is unbounded; the bank is authorized to
>print more currency if need be.
Yeah, but I think he means 1,000 Monopoly=$1 real money . . .