Am 21.03.2021 um 01:23 schrieb Janis Papanagnou:
> On 20.03.2021 19:44, Klaus Kassner wrote:
>> After a pause of several years, I started a new nethack game.
>
> Welcome back!
Thanks. I was surprised that there were still some of the names around
that I knew.
>
>>
>> Also I kept confusing item properties of slashem with those of NH. For
>> example, I blessed a set of scrolls of teleportation just to relearn
>> that they still don't give you controlled teleport
>
> What? - Blessed teleport let you do a controlled teleport in Slashem?
Yes. It makes blessing the scrolls useful, as long as you do not yet
have teleport control. Slashem usually has more different ways to
achieve the same thing than NH. Three ways for controlled teleport in
Slashem, only two in NH.
>>
>> However, the anecdote I wanted to report, is about illogical behaviour
>> of Stormbringer. On the castle level, a number of gremlins had spawned,
>> all peaceful, and I wanted to get rid of them, so they would not later
>> block my ascension run. Since Stormbringer attacks without warning, I
>> thought it was o.k. to just kill them. It was Stormbringer's
>> responsibility to make them angry, not mine... However, later in the
>> game, I noticed that Stormbringer kept blasting me after I rewielded it,
>> unwielding my pick-axe.
>
> I have no clear memory about the effects in Nethack and Slashem; I
> recall to have observed exactly such a gremlin case in one or the other
> game. OTOH I seem to recall that killing a peaceful as Chaotic character
> won't affect you with bad effects. But probably alignment is decreased
> in any case and just other bad effects only applied to non-chaotics?
I don't know what else should have decreased my alignment. Also, the
nethack wiki says that killing peacefuls will decrease alignment, and it
does not make an exception for chaotics.
>> Since that had never happened to me before with
>> a chaotic character, I decided to investigate. Obviously, my alignment
>> had gone down due to killing many peaceful monsters. A stethoscope
>> applied to myself revealed that I was "insufficiently chaotic". Now
>> Stormbringer is called an "intelligent" artifact. But is it intelligent
>> to blame the character for killings initiated by the bloodthirsty blade
>> itself? And to blast him as a reward for having the blade have its will?
>> I would call that stupid rather than intelligent. :-)
>
> Either your barbarian orc character or the blade wasn't-intelligent. :-)
The character had already Int 18 at the time, wearing a +2 helm of
brilliance.
> One is free to choose and use another weapon.
That would not have changed the bad alignment effects. But with another
weapon, it is clearly the character's fault, because he is asked whether
he really wants to attack the peaceful monster. With Stormbringer, the
attack simply happens, because it is a "bloodthirsty blade". So the
responsibility (in game) should shift to the blade. (Of course, I as the
player knew what I was doing, and maybe my character could have been
suspected to know it after the second or third gremlin at least.)
>>
>> In fact, I would consider it more in line with the internal logic of the
>> game and this particular artifact, if attacking peacefuls with
>> Stormbringer would not incur an alignment penalty. Also what would be
>> more chaotic than attacking everything with a blade that is
>> bloodthirsty? How can this make you "insufficiently chaotic" rather than
>> "piously chaotic"?
>
> Bad (generic) wording for a special case? But "piously chaotic" seems
> also not quite right. ;-)
These are the messages that you get when applying a stethoscope to
yourself. "Insufficiently chaotic" if your alignment is negative.
"Chaotic" (I believe) if it is zero. If it is slightly positive, you
become "fervently chaotic", then "stridently chaotic" (I may interchange
the sequence, not knowing whether fervently or stridently is the
stronger adjective.) And finally, you get "piously chaotic", which
corresponds to the best level of chaoticity. Of course, you can also be
piously neutral or piously lawful, with the appropriate character.