Advice for new-ish player

[Rayner Lucas]

Hi group,

I've recently started playing Umoria 5.7.15 and am wondering about a few
things. I played (and eventually won) Angband back in the 2.9.2 days,
but I've forgotten a lot and it had diverged significantly from Moria
even then, so I'm not sure what knowledge is transferrable.

Am I right in thinking elemental resistances don't protect your
worn/carried items? I still seem to get my stuff corroded by acid
attacks even when I wear an amulet of acid resistance.

It seems I can only aim my attacks along the 8 keypad directions but
ranged monster attacks (e.g. breaths) can target me anywhere as long as
the monster can see me. This is a nuisance, as something like a mere
dragon bat can wreck my stuff for several turns until I can line up with
the monster. Am I missing something, or is this asymmetry intentional?

Is the corrosion attack (e.g. bloodshot icky things) different from an
acid attack? I get the "acrid smell from your pack" message with the
bloodshot icky thing attacks, but not from acid breathers (also, what's
getting damaged in my pack? I haven't been noticing a difference, but I
also haven't been keeping careful notes of exactly what's in my pack at
all times)

I'm at 1300ft and starting to find stat potions, should I hang around at
this depth until I max my stats? Also, are there specific
abilities/resistances I should acquire before heading deeper?

I'm running low on space in my pack, so which things should I sell? I'm
currently inclined to keep the staff of teleportation and the wand of
teleport away, and sell the teleport scrolls and other wands/staves. Is
it worth selling the longsword (SU), or should I enchant it up and use
it instead of the thrusting sword (both currently give me only one
attack/round, but the longsword is heavier and presumably I'll want to
trade it for a Defender or HA weapon anyway once one turns up)? And
would I get more benefit from the ring of increase to-hit than the ring
of protection?

Thanks for any advice!

Name : Cowslip Bumblefoot Age : 33 STR : 12
Race : Halfling Height : 33 INT : 18/30
Sex : Female Weight : 49 WIS : 11
Class : Mage Social Class : 62 DEX : 17
CON : 11 12
CHR : 17

+ To Hit : 7 Level : 26 Max Hit Points : 89
+ To Damage : 6 Experience : 32602 Cur Hit Points : 89
+ To AC : 13 Max Exp : 32602 Max Mana : 40
Total AC : 40 Exp to Adv.: 35000 Cur Mana : 39
Gold : 51917

(Miscellaneous Abilities)
Fighting : Excellent Stealth : Excellent Perception : Excellent
Bows/Throw : Superb Disarming : Superb Searching : Fair
Saving Throw: Superb Magic Device: Superb Infra-Vision: 90 feet


You are using -
a) Wielding : a Thrusting Sword (Bilbo) (SU) (1d6) (+7,+6). 8.0 lb
b) On head : a Hard Leather Cap of Infra-Vision [2,+3] (+5). 1.5 lb
c) Around neck : an Amulet of Resist Acid. 0.3 lb
d) On body : Bar Chain Mail (-2) [18,+0]. 28.0 lb
e) On arm : a Small Metal Shield [3,+2]. 6.5 lb
f) On hands : a Set of Leather Gloves of Free Action [1,+0]. 0.5 lb
g) On right hand : a Ring of Protection [+3]. 0.2 lb
h) On left hand : a Ring of Strength (+2). 0.2 lb
i) On feet : a Pair of Soft Leather Boots [2,+3]. 2.0 lb
j) About body : a Cloak [1,+1]. 1.0 lb
k) Light source : a Brass Lantern with 11410 turns of light. 5.0 lb
l) Spare weapon : a Light Crossbow (x3) (+5,+6). 11.0 lb


You are carrying 129.9 pounds. Your capacity is 160.9 pounds. In your
pack is -
a) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Beginners-Magick]. 6.0 lb
b) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Magick I]. 6.0 lb
c) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Magick II]. 6.0 lb
d) 2 Books of Magic Spells [The Mages' Guide to Power]. 6.0 lb
e) a Flask of Oil. 1.0 lb
f) 4 Potions of Resist Cold. 1.6 lb
g) 5 Potions of Resist Heat. 2.0 lb
h) 3 Potions of Super Heroism. 1.2 lb
i) 11 Potions of Haste Self. 4.4 lb
j) 4 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds. 1.6 lb
k) 2 Potions of Healing. 0.8 lb
l) a Potion of Constitution. 0.4 lb
m) 2 Scrolls of Word-of-Recall. 1.0 lb
n) a Scroll of Teleport Level. 0.5 lb
o) 2 Scrolls of Teleport. 1.0 lb
p) a Wand of Frost Bolts (5 charges). 1.0 lb
q) a Wand of Teleport Away (11 charges). 1.0 lb
r) a Staff of Teleportation (8 charges). 5.0 lb
s) a Staff of Sleep Monsters (12 charges). 5.0 lb
t) a Ring of Increase To-Hit (+4). 0.2 lb
u) a Soft Leather Cap of Intelligence [1,+1] (+1). 1.0 lb
v) a Longsword (SU) (1d10) (+5,+3). 13.0 lb

[Eli the Bearded]

In rec.games.roguelike.moria,
Rayner Lucas <usenet...@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE> wrote:
> Hi group,

Not sure how much of a group is left. I can't remember the last post I
saw here.

> Am I right in thinking elemental resistances don't protect your
> worn/carried items? I still seem to get my stuff corroded by acid
> attacks even when I wear an amulet of acid resistance.

That is correct.

> It seems I can only aim my attacks along the 8 keypad directions but
> ranged monster attacks (e.g. breaths) can target me anywhere as long
> as the monster can see me. This is a nuisance, as something like a
> mere dragon bat can wreck my stuff for several turns until I can line
> up with the monster. Am I missing something, or is this asymmetry
> intentional?

This is by design, and I agree it is a nuissance. There is a patch that
adds aiming, but you'll need to be using a from source version and good
luck finding it. I have code with the patch applied, but I don't think I
have the patch itself.

There's multple versions, side by side directories, in my Moria tarball.
With some work the aiming code could be isolated.

https://qaz.wtf/Moria/

> Is the corrosion attack (e.g. bloodshot icky things) different from an
> acid attack?

Acid gas and acid liquid both use that message, but one has a period and
one an exclamation point. The chances of equipment damage are different
from each.

> I'm at 1300ft and starting to find stat potions, should I hang around
> at this depth until I max my stats? Also, are there specific
> abilities/resistances I should acquire before heading deeper?

Yeah, that's a good strategy. Or if not max, till you get too bored of
the level.

> I'm running low on space in my pack, so which things should I sell?
> I'm currently inclined to keep the staff of teleportation and the wand
> of teleport away, and sell the teleport scrolls and other
> wands/staves.

I typically like any of the cloud /ball effect wands and often keep a
Wand of Wonder for desperaration. It's a random effect wand, and it has
definitely saved me more than once, but it clone the monster or other
nasty effects. The ball effect wands will be handy with explosive
breeders which can sometimes exhaust you.

> Is it worth selling the longsword (SU), or should I enchant it up and
> use it instead of the thrusting sword (both currently give me only one
> attack/round, but the longsword is heavier and presumably I'll want to
> trade it for a Defender or HA weapon anyway once one turns up)? And
> would I get more benefit from the ring of increase to-hit than the
> ring of protection?

Lighter weapons that give more, if lower damage each, attacks are
generally better. Slay Dragon is the only monster specific type I'd
consider saving, so I'd sell that Slay Undead. I might be a bit jaded
about the Slay $Foo stuff, however.

My style of play would prefer extra protection over extra chance to hit.
You can encounter monsters which you, a not leveled up enough player,
can only score critical hits on. To-hit can help, but I'd rather slug it
out slowly with a monster that can hit me either.

> Thanks for any advice!

It's been a long time since I've played, but I do have fond memories of
the game.

> Name : Cowslip Bumblefoot Age : 33 STR : 12

Oh, yeah. Strength 12, get yourself a lighter weapon. Or stick around
for increase strength and dexterity potions.

> d) On body : Bar Chain Mail (-2) [18,+0]. 28.0 lb

I'd have also waited until str 17 or better for such heavy armor.

> a) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Beginners-Magick]. 6.0 lb
> b) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Magick I]. 6.0 lb
> c) 2 Books of Magic Spells [Magick II]. 6.0 lb
> d) 2 Books of Magic Spells [The Mages' Guide to Power]. 6.0 lb

Keeping double copies of books suggests a fair amount of experience with
Moria (or Moria-like roguelikes). Angband taught you well.

Elijah
------
has spent hundreds of hours in Moria and hundreds of minutes in Angband

[Rayner Lucas]

In article <eli$22070...@qaz.wtf>, *@eli.users.panix.com says...

>
> Not sure how much of a group is left. I can't remember the last post I
> saw here.

Most people are probably into something a bit more graphical these days,
but I figure it's always worth a post, you never know who's still
lurking :-)

> > [monsters can aim but player can't]

>
> This is by design, and I agree it is a nuissance. There is a patch that
> adds aiming, but you'll need to be using a from source version and good
> luck finding it. I have code with the patch applied, but I don't think I
> have the patch itself.
>
> There's multple versions, side by side directories, in my Moria tarball.
> With some work the aiming code could be isolated.
>
> https://qaz.wtf/Moria/

Thanks, just checking I hadn't missed something. Your patched version
looks fun, I'll give it a try when I get bored with the vanilla game.

> > Is the corrosion attack (e.g. bloodshot icky things) different from an
> > acid attack?
>
> Acid gas and acid liquid both use that message, but one has a period and
> one an exclamation point. The chances of equipment damage are different
> from each.

Ah, I see, that's good to know.

> > I'm at 1300ft and starting to find stat potions, should I hang around
> > at this depth until I max my stats? Also, are there specific
> > abilities/resistances I should acquire before heading deeper?
>
> Yeah, that's a good strategy. Or if not max, till you get too bored of
> the level.

OK then. It'll be be a grind to max everything, but I figure I should at
least max out INT and CON so I have more mana and hit points before
heading deeper. STR and DEX would be nice to have so I can get more
attacks. WIS seems only mildly useful, and CHR is pretty irrelevant at
this point, as I have more money than I can spend anyway.

> > I'm running low on space in my pack, so which things should I sell?
> > I'm currently inclined to keep the staff of teleportation and the wand
> > of teleport away, and sell the teleport scrolls and other
> > wands/staves.
>
> I typically like any of the cloud /ball effect wands and often keep a
> Wand of Wonder for desperaration. It's a random effect wand, and it
> has definitely saved me more than once, but it clone the monster or
> other nasty effects. The ball effect wands will be handy with
> explosive breeders which can sometimes exhaust you.

Having experimented with the wand of teleport away, it only seems to
move the monster a few squares, so less useful than I thought. I decided
on keeping the staves of teleport away and sleep monsters as emergency
escape measures, but can probably do without the others.

Breeders are a nuisance, all right; lice I can usually handle, but I get
overrun by ebony ants. There was a wand of lightning balls in the magic
shop, so I've grabbed that as a backup attack option.

> > [Longsword (SU) vs Thrusting Sword (Bilbo) (SU)]
> > [Ring of Protection vs Ring of Increase To-Hit]

> Lighter weapons that give more, if lower damage each, attacks are
> generally better. Slay Dragon is the only monster specific type I'd
> consider saving, so I'd sell that Slay Undead. I might be a bit jaded
> about the Slay $Foo stuff, however.

OK, I sold the longsword. I think I want to hang onto a Slay Undead
weapon until I find another source of See Invisible, though; life-
draining ghosts are a real nuisance without it.

> My style of play would prefer extra protection over extra chance to
> hit. You can encounter monsters which you, a not leveled up enough
> player, can only score critical hits on. To-hit can help, but I'd
> rather slug it out slowly with a monster that can hit me either.

Fair enough. That +4 to-hit is tempting, but as you say, I also like the
monsters not being able to hit me.

> Oh, yeah. Strength 12, get yourself a lighter weapon. Or stick around
> for increase strength and dexterity potions.

Yeah, I guess that's what I get for playing a halfling mage. I can get
two attacks with a small dagger, but I'd have to give up the See
Invisible unless I can find a suitable ultra-light ego weapon.

> I'd have also waited until str 17 or better for such heavy armor.

Ah, good point, I'll keep an eye out for something lighter with a bit of
enchantment on it. Hoping something with resistances turns up (there was
some soft leather armor (R) in the shops near the start of the game when
I hadn't a hope of affording it, and I've seen nothing with any
resistances since, typical)

> Keeping double copies of books suggests a fair amount of experience
> with Moria (or Moria-like roguelikes). Angband taught you well.

Heh, Angband definitely made me paranoid about getting my spellbooks
burned, those YASDs stick in one's memory :-)

I'll play on and see how things go, thank you for the tips!

Rayner

[Rayner Lucas]

Still alive! (touch wood)

Shortly after posting, I lucked into a Holy Avenger sabre, then a very
nice Defender axe, meaning I could sell the Slay Undead weapons as I now
had other sources of See Invisible. Hung around at 1300ft until my stats
were nearly maxed, then dived fairly swiftly to 1850ft where mature and
ancient dragons started to show up. I stayed there to level up for a
bit, as my hit points were a bit on the low side, but I'm now at a point
where AMHDs are the only thing I feel I absolutely have to avoid.

I'm still short on pack space, so it's time for some more inventory
management. Thoughts:
- Most of the scrolls and potions are things I'm saving up for the final
battle or as emergency escapes, so I'm loath to get rid of them.
- I may not need the potions of Resist Cold, as I can withstand a
single-resisted breath from an Ancient White Dragon.
- The wands and staves are a bit too useful to discard, as they enable
me to finish or escape a fight with a mana-drainer.
- I should probably sell one or two of the spare weapons.

The Executioner's Sword has a ludicrous damage bonus, which makes me
think it might be worth using if I can find something else to give me
elemental resistances. On the other hand, I might want to keep using the
Defender weapon for its powers of regeneration. I can probably live
without at least one of the Holy Avenger weapons, but I'm vacillating
about which one to sell. The sabre has a better AC bonus, but sustain
CON is probably more useful than sustain WIS (or at least, a drained CON
could kill me more directly than a drained WIS). Since I'm not currently
using either HA weapon, though, I should probably just accept that it's
not a big deal either way and just sell one.

What I think I need now is:
- a shield or armour with all resistances (giving me more choice of
weapons)
- Boots and/or rings of speed
- More invulnerability potions (these seem very rare, though)

Speed items would be the most useful; I'm currently keeping Haste Self
active on myself unless I'm sure my surroundings are safe. It's helped a
couple of times when I've run into a fast monster like an Emperor Lich,
or encountered an invisible Quylthulg in a dark corridor. Death Quasits
(being Very Fast and also stat drainers) are atill a real nuisance, but
thankfully I've only run into a couple.

Currently at 2050ft, and wondering whether to keep levelling up at this
depth and hope for more invulnerability potions, or go deeper and hope
for speed items (which I gather get more likely the deeper you go).

Happy dungeon-crawling to anyone still reading the group,
Rayner


Name : Cowslip Bumblefoot Age : 33 STR : 18/100
Race : Halfling Height : 33 INT : 18/100
Sex : Female Weight : 49 WIS : 18/100
Class : Mage Social Class : 62 DEX : 18/100
Title : Wizard (5th) CON : 18/100
CHR : 18/100

+ To Hit : 22 Level : 35 Max Hit Points : 271
+ To Damage : 22 Experience : 565443 Cur Hit Points : 271
+ To AC : 36 Max Exp : 565443 Max Mana : 141
Total AC : 66 Exp to Adv : 700000 Cur Mana : 141
Gold : 336149

(Miscellaneous Abilities)

Fighting : Superb Stealth : Superb Perception : Superb
Bows/Throw : Superb Disarming : Superb Searching : Good

Saving Throw: Superb Magic Device: Superb Infra-Vision: 90 feet

[Character's Equipment List]

a) You are wielding : a Beaked Axe (DF) (2d6) (+11,+11) [+9] (+3 to
stealth).
b) Worn on head : a Hard Leather Cap of Infra-Vision [2,+5] (+5).
c) Worn around neck : an Amulet of the Magi [+3] (+5).
d) Worn on body : Bar Chain Mail (RC) (-2) [18,+6].
e) Worn on shield arm : a Large Metal Shield [5,+3].
f) Worn on hands : a Set of Leather Gloves of Free Action [1,+3].
g) Right ring finger : a Ring of Increase Damage (+5).
h) Left ring finger : a Ring of Increase To-Hit (+4).
i) Worn on feet : a Pair of Hard Leather Boots [3,+0].
j) Worn about body : a Cloak [1,+2].
k) Light source is : a Brass Lantern with 2745 turns of light.
l) Secondary weapon : a Light Crossbow (x3) (+9,+7).

[General Inventory List]

a) 4 Books of Magic Spells [Beginners-Magick].
b) 5 Books of Magic Spells [Magick I].
c) 4 Books of Magic Spells [Magick II].
d) 3 Books of Magic Spells [The Mages' Guide to Power].
e) 14 Potions of Resist Cold.
f) 13 Potions of Resist Heat.
g) 10 Potions of Super Heroism.
h) 32 Potions of Restore Mana.
i) a Potion of Invulnerability.
j) 15 Potions of Haste Self.
k) 11 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds.
l) 13 Potions of Healing.
m) 27 Scrolls of Teleport Level.
n) 9 Scrolls of Genocide.
o) a Wand of Fire Balls (3 charges).
p) a Wand of Drain Life (6 charges).
q) a Staff of Dispel Evil (6 charges).
r) a Staff of Teleportation (12 charges).
s) an Executioner's Sword (4d5) (+4,+22).
t) a Sabre (HA) (1d7) (+9,+7) [+3] (+3 to STR).
u) a Small Sword (HA) (1d6) (+9,+10) [+1] (+4 to STR).
v) 21 Bolts of Fire (1d5) (+4,+9).

[Eli the Bearded]

In rec.games.roguelike.moria,
Rayner Lucas <usenet...@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE> wrote:

> Still alive! (touch wood)

:-)

> bit, as my hit points were a bit on the low side, but I'm now at a point
> where AMHDs are the only thing I feel I absolutely have to avoid.

AMHDs are pretty damn dangerous even to the best characters.

> - I should probably sell one or two of the spare weapons.

Yes.

> What I think I need now is:
> - a shield or armour with all resistances (giving me more choice of
> weapons)

Always a good choice.

> - Boots and/or rings of speed

Boots are very rare. Rings not as rare. I try to keep haste self active
all the time once I have the ability. It's a little tedious, but I'd
loop casting it on myself, resting to restore mana, and cast again, over
and over pausing to eat mush when needed. This is best done near a
staircase to leave the monster filled level if needed after all that
idle time.

> - More invulnerability potions (these seem very rare, though)

They are because are very overpowered. I gamed the inventory and WoR
level of a level 1 character to have a nice sword and a lot of
invulnerability potions. With that, I was able to kill the Balrog.
You should probably not expect to be able to farm them. Three or four
should be plenty. Even one is a help.

> Currently at 2050ft, and wondering whether to keep levelling up at this
> depth and hope for more invulnerability potions, or go deeper and hope
> for speed items (which I gather get more likely the deeper you go).

My recollection is that enchantments (like resistence armor or "of
speed" footwear) is strictly depth based, with deeper levels having
more. But specific items, like particular potions or rings, have specific
levels where they are most common.

Checking, yes. First it (get_obj_num()) picks the object subject to
current level (with a small chance of a "great" object from a deeper
level), then it rolls the dice three times zero to level, picks the
largest of the three results, and then picks something matching the
level of that largest. Then magic_treasure() kicks in, using chance
numbers based strictly on level.

The best chance for rings of speed would be at Balrog depth or deeper.
For levels Town (0) to 55 (2750 feet), I generated 10,000 objects. Here's
the counts of Rings of Speed (includes damned ones, natch):

Level 0 ( Town ): 0
Level 1 ( 50 feet): 0
Level 2 ( 100 feet): 0
Level 3 ( 150 feet): 1
Level 4 ( 200 feet): 0
Level 5 ( 250 feet): 2
Level 6 ( 300 feet): 0
Level 7 ( 350 feet): 1
Level 8 ( 400 feet): 2
Level 9 ( 450 feet): 0
Level 10 ( 500 feet): 0
Level 11 ( 550 feet): 1
Level 12 ( 600 feet): 1
Level 13 ( 650 feet): 0
Level 14 ( 700 feet): 0
Level 15 ( 750 feet): 1
Level 16 ( 800 feet): 1
Level 17 ( 850 feet): 2
Level 18 ( 900 feet): 2
Level 19 ( 950 feet): 0
Level 20 (1000 feet): 2
Level 21 (1050 feet): 4
Level 22 (1100 feet): 3
Level 23 (1150 feet): 4
Level 24 (1200 feet): 1
Level 25 (1250 feet): 2
Level 26 (1300 feet): 3
Level 27 (1350 feet): 1
Level 28 (1400 feet): 2
Level 29 (1450 feet): 3
Level 30 (1500 feet): 1
Level 31 (1550 feet): 3
Level 32 (1600 feet): 0
Level 33 (1650 feet): 6
Level 34 (1700 feet): 2
Level 35 (1750 feet): 6
Level 36 (1800 feet): 3
Level 37 (1850 feet): 2
Level 38 (1900 feet): 5
Level 39 (1950 feet): 4
Level 40 (2000 feet): 2
Level 41 (2050 feet): 3
Level 42 (2100 feet): 2
Level 43 (2150 feet): 5
Level 44 (2200 feet): 4
Level 45 (2250 feet): 2
Level 46 (2300 feet): 7
Level 47 (2350 feet): 3
Level 48 (2400 feet): 3
Level 49 (2450 feet): 5
Level 50 (2500 feet): 64
Level 51 (2550 feet): 52
Level 52 (2600 feet): 50
Level 53 (2650 feet): 61
Level 54 (2700 feet): 63
Level 55 (2750 feet): 53

By contrast, there were just 3 pairs of boots of speed amoung all of
those tens of thousands.

> v) 21 Bolts of Fire (1d5) (+4,+9).

I find maintaining projectiles for crossbow / bow to be difficult, and
usually don't bother. I use the spare weapon slot sparingly, maybe if
I have a good Slay Dragon or something. Just if you are thinking of
thinning weapon inventory...

Elijah
------
had to figure out how to compile Moria again for those lists

[Rayner Lucas]

In article <eli$22072...@qaz.wtf>, *@eli.users.panix.com says...

>
> In rec.games.roguelike.moria,
> Rayner Lucas <usenet...@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE> wrote:
>
> > What I think I need now is:

[snip]

> > - Boots and/or rings of speed
>
> Boots are very rare. Rings not as rare. I try to keep haste self active
> all the time once I have the ability. It's a little tedious, but I'd
> loop casting it on myself, resting to restore mana, and cast again, over
> and over pausing to eat mush when needed. This is best done near a
> staircase to leave the monster filled level if needed after all that
> idle time.

I've been keeping Haste Self active as much as possible, but hadn't
thought of stacking castings of it like that. Might give it a try and
see if that makes life easier.

> > - More invulnerability potions (these seem very rare, though)

[snip]

> Three or four should be plenty. Even one is a help.

Well, I had some good luck in my last play session, and now have 11 of
them. I don't know exactly how tough the Balrog is going to be, but that
should buy time to whittle its health down by a fair bit at least.

[Rings of Speed]

> Level 49 (2450 feet): 5
> Level 50 (2500 feet): 64

Wow, yes, that's a big difference in rarity (and thank you for running
the experiment, it was very interesting to see the results!). Makes me
wonder if it's worth dropping down to 2500ft and trying to avoid the
Balrog until a RoS turns up.

I'm now at 2450ft, and just hit character level 37. I reckon the only
thing I *need* now is at least one speed item; I'm working on the
assumption that the Balrog is at least Fast, otherwise it would be too
easy to off it with the pillar-dance trick. Other fancy equipment like a
shield of resistance would be nice, but I do have other items that can
cover all the important resistances and abilities.

Regards,
Rayner

[Eli the Bearded]

In rec.games.roguelike.moria,
Rayner Lucas <usenet...@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE> wrote:
> Well, I had some good luck in my last play session, and now have 11 of
> them. I don't know exactly how tough the Balrog is going to be, but
> that should buy time to whittle its health down by a fair bit at
> least.

Yes, eleven should be plenty.

> Wow, yes, that's a big difference in rarity (and thank you for running
> the experiment, it was very interesting to see the results!). Makes me
> wonder if it's worth dropping down to 2500ft and trying to avoid the
> Balrog until a RoS turns up.

Rings of Speed are considered level 50 (2500') items, so they only show
up at shallower depths with the "great item" out-of-depth chance.

> I'm now at 2450ft, and just hit character level 37. I reckon the only
> thing I *need* now is at least one speed item; I'm working on the
> assumption that the Balrog is at least Fast, otherwise it would be too
> easy to off it with the pillar-dance trick.

Balrog is as fast as they get, speed 13 (on a 9 to 13 range). Pillar
dance won't work because it can move through walls and doors.

Unlike an AMHD, Balrog won't one hit you to death (unless your HP is
already low), so you can just teleport flee if you encounter it. Evil
Iggy is designed to be a pain in the ass, and 50% of levels 2500' or
deeper have Iggy instead. Killing Iggy is good practice.

Evil Iggy life rating 60d40, speed 12, armor class 80. Will steal things
from you.

The Balrog life rating 75d40, speed 13, armor class 125. Will eat
charges.

Level 37 should be enough, but being extra cautious makes sense. You're
in a good place to explore that depth, being careful of nasties.

Elijah
------
that stolen things are gone forever is a real drawback

[Rayner Lucas]

In article <eli$22072...@qaz.wtf>, *@eli.users.panix.com says...
>

> In rec.games.roguelike.moria,
> Rayner Lucas <usenet...@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE> wrote:
> > I'm now at 2450ft, and just hit character level 37. I reckon the only
> > thing I *need* now is at least one speed item; I'm working on the
> > assumption that the Balrog is at least Fast, otherwise it would be too
> > easy to off it with the pillar-dance trick.
>
> Balrog is as fast as they get, speed 13 (on a 9 to 13 range). Pillar
> dance won't work because it can move through walls and doors.
>
> Unlike an AMHD, Balrog won't one hit you to death (unless your HP is
> already low), so you can just teleport flee if you encounter it. Evil
> Iggy is designed to be a pain in the ass, and 50% of levels 2500' or
> deeper have Iggy instead. Killing Iggy is good practice.

If the Balrog is faster than me, presumably it potentially gets two
rounds to kill me if it takes me by surprise. With only 284HP, I'm
pretty wary of encountering it without being able to match its speed.

> Level 37 should be enough, but being extra cautious makes sense. You're
> in a good place to explore that depth, being careful of nasties.

Well, I promptly fell through a trapdoor, so I got to explore 2500ft
whether I planned to or not. Luckily the level only had an Evil Iggy and
not the Balrog; Iggy was a nuisance but not really much worse than an
Emperor Lich. Speed up, fire-bolt him from a distance, phase door if he
gets too close, teleport away to replenish mana, rinse and repeat.

I then ended up farming Crystal Oozes for what seemed like forever (with
breaks to clear newly-spawned monsters from rest of the level) until one
finally dropped a non-cursed Ring of Speed. I did also find some other
nice equipment while I was down there: a Large Metal Shield (R) and Full
Plate Armor (R), plus a Steel Helm of Intelligence that I plan to use
for the final battle (the cap of infravision is handy, but the higher AC
and ability to withstand something draining my INT without losing a huge
chunk of my mana makes the helm feel like a better bet).

I have too many weapons again. I think I'll sell the Battle Axe (HA)
before heading back to the dungeon; I'm finding the Defender and Slay
Dragon weapons are much more useful so the battle axe is just extra
weight. I should probably dump the Executioner's Sword as well since
it's so heavy, but I'm still too amused by the ludicrous damage bonus.

I guess once I've got some supplies from town, it's time to take a crack
at the Balrog. Here goes!

Rayner


Name : Cowslip Bumblefoot Age : 33 STR : 18/100
Race : Halfling Height : 33 INT : 18/100
Sex : Female Weight : 49 WIS : 18/100
Class : Mage Social Class : 62 DEX : 18/100

Title : Wizard (7th) CON : 18/100
CHR : 18/100

+ To Hit : 15 Level : 37 Max Hit Points : 284
+ To Damage : 28 Experience : 1414201 Cur Hit Points : 284
+ To AC : 41 Max Exp : 1414201 Max Mana : 149
Total AC : 82 Exp to Adv : 2100000 Cur Mana : 149
Gold : 639401

(Miscellaneous Abilities)

Fighting : Superb Stealth : Superb Perception : Superb

Bows/Throw : Superb Disarming : Superb Searching : Very Good
Saving Throw: Superb Magic Device: Superb Infra-Vision: 40 feet

Character Background
You are one of several children of a Halfling Burglar. You
are a credit to the family. You have brown eyes, straight
black hair, and an average complexion.


[Character's Equipment List]

a) You are wielding : a Two-Handed Sword (Flamberge) (SD) (4d5) (+9,+
17).
b) Worn on head : an Iron Helm of Intelligence [5,+5] (+2).
c) Worn around neck : an Amulet of the Magi [+3] (+10).
d) Worn on body : Full Plate Armor (R) (-3) [25,+8].
e) Worn on shield arm : a Large Metal Shield (R) [5,+6].
f) Worn on hands : a Set of Gauntlets of Free Action [2,+4].

g) Right ring finger : a Ring of Increase Damage (+5).

h) Left ring finger : a Ring of Speed (+1).
i) Worn on feet : a Pair of Hard Leather Boots [3,+4].
j) Worn about body : a Cloak of Stealth [1,+6] (+2).
k) Light source is : a Brass Lantern with 9996 turns of light.
l) Secondary weapon : a Heavy Crossbow (x4) (+7,+8).

[General Inventory List]

a) 4 Books of Magic Spells [Beginners-Magick].

b) 4 Books of Magic Spells [Magick I].

c) 4 Books of Magic Spells [Magick II].

d) 4 Books of Magic Spells [The Mages' Guide to Power].
e) 20 Potions of Resist Heat.
f) 9 Potions of Super Heroism.
g) 39 Potions of Restore Mana.
h) 13 Potions of Invulnerability.
i) 16 Potions of Haste Self.
j) 8 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds.
k) 18 Potions of Healing.
l) 15 Scrolls of Teleport Level.
m) 17 Scrolls of Genocide.
n) 3 Scrolls of Mass Genocide.
o) a Wand of Drain Life (6 charges).
p) a Wand of Acid Balls (6 charges).
q) a Staff of Teleportation (8 charges).
r) a Hard Leather Cap of Infra-Vision [2,+2] (+5).
s) an Executioner's Sword (4d5) (+8,+22).
t) a Beaked Axe (DF) (2d6) (+11,+12) [+9] (+3 to stealth).
u) a Battle Axe (European) (HA) (3d4) (+9,+7) [+4] (+3 to STR).

[Rayner Lucas]

Aaaaand done. It took ages to actually find the Balrog, since I got an
Evil Iggy level instead the first half-dozen times I tried. This did
however give me a chance to make a few refinements to my equipment.
First, another Ring of Speed turned up in a monster drop, so I could be
permanently Very Fast and, if hasted, even faster than the Balrog
itself. Second, I realised that while the Balrog (or Iggy) wouldn't show
up if I cast Detect Monsters, if I used a Staff of Detect Evil they
would. I really didn't like the thought of a Balrog sneaking up on me,
so it was well worth clearing space in my pack for the staff. On my next
trip into the dungeon, I did indeed manage to spot it coming and quaff a
potion before it burst through the wall.

With that many potions of invulnerability, the final battle didn't put
me in any serious danger. I reckon it took around 40 frost balls plus
half a dozen attacks each from the wands of Acid Balls and Drain Life,
quaffing potions of Restore Mana and Haste Self as needed to keep up the
assault until it eventually exploded in a shower of treasure.

I've got a few invulnerability potions left over, so I might see if I
can bag an AMHD for the monster memory, but apart from that Cowslip the
Halfling Mage gets to enjoy a well-earned retirement.

Thanks for the tips and discussion, it's been fun to rediscover a
classic game!

Rayner



*** CONGRATULATIONS *** You have won the game. -more-

Halfling ####
Mage #### ##############
Wizard (7th) # ...# #............#
########## ## ######### ####.###########............#
STR : 18/100 ... ............ #............!.......,...#
INT : 18/100 ########## ############# #.###########............#
WIS : 18/100 #.# #............#
DEX : 18/100 #.# ##############
CON : 18/100 #.#
CHR : 18/100 ###

LEV : 37
EXP : 1825544 ######################
MANA: 93 #.......*$**?.....?..#
MHP : 284 #...@...**B.]........#
CHP : 284 ........$..?..........
#......."*,=_........#
AC : 192 #D...................#
GOLD: 674008 #....................#
###################### +
*Winner*
Very Fast 2550
feet

[Eli the Bearded]

In rec.games.roguelike.moria,
Rayner Lucas <usenet...@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE> wrote:

> With that many potions of invulnerability, the final battle didn't put
> me in any serious danger. I reckon it took around 40 frost balls plus
> half a dozen attacks each from the wands of Acid Balls and Drain Life,
> quaffing potions of Restore Mana and Haste Self as needed to keep up the
> assault until it eventually exploded in a shower of treasure.

Yeah, it was eleven right? That's not surprising that you have one left.

> I've got a few invulnerability potions left over, so I might see if I
> can bag an AMHD for the monster memory, but apart from that Cowslip the
> Halfling Mage gets to enjoy a well-earned retirement.

You need to quit, I think, to get the winner tombstone. If you die
before then, it's not a complete win.

> Thanks for the tips and discussion, it's been fun to rediscover a
> classic game!

Glad you enjoyed it. It has certainly made me think about my attempt
to make it work on a small screen again, so that I can play it on my
phone (text screen width 65 characters). There's a fork that has done
the small screen tweaks already, but not for a Unix-like system (kmoria
for Palm Pilot).

Elijah
------
always has more ideas than time to program

[Rayner Lucas]

In article <eli$22073...@qaz.wtf>, *@eli.users.panix.com says...

>
> In rec.games.roguelike.moria,
> Rayner Lucas <usenet...@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE> wrote:
> > With that many potions of invulnerability, the final battle didn't put
> > me in any serious danger.
>

> Yeah, it was eleven right? That's not surprising that you have one left.

Thirteen in the end, a couple more turned up while I was looking for the
Balrog. I only used 7 or 8 in the final fight, and could probably have
managed with fewer.

> > I've got a few invulnerability potions left over, so I might see if I
> > can bag an AMHD for the monster memory, but apart from that Cowslip the
> > Halfling Mage gets to enjoy a well-earned retirement.
>
> You need to quit, I think, to get the winner tombstone. If you die
> before then, it's not a complete win.

Yep, I went and killed an AMHD just for the heck of it (didn't really
even need the potions for it, since with two Rings of Speed you can
pillar-dance them), then quit to get the win screen and "died of Ripe
Old Age" tombstone :-)

> > Thanks for the tips and discussion, it's been fun to rediscover a
> > classic game!
>
> Glad you enjoyed it. It has certainly made me think about my attempt
> to make it work on a small screen again, so that I can play it on my
> phone (text screen width 65 characters). There's a fork that has done
> the small screen tweaks already, but not for a Unix-like system (kmoria
> for Palm Pilot).

Funny how these hardware limitations tend to stick around; we've had
huge high-resolution screens on desktop machines for years, but now we
have to get things working on mobile devices.

I found the GitHub repository for the Moria code, and have been idly
browsing it as the Windows binary seemed to have a couple of minor
oddities (should monsters really be able to spawn in the same square as
rubble?). I don't really speak C++ or have free time, but it's pretty
well-commented so I'm at least getting a decent idea of how it all fits
together.

Rayner

[Eli the Bearded]

In rec.games.roguelike.moria,
Rayner Lucas <usenet...@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE> wrote:
> Thirteen in the end, a couple more turned up while I was looking for the
> Balrog. I only used 7 or 8 in the final fight, and could probably have
> managed with fewer.

It's an over-powered potion.

> Yep, I went and killed an AMHD just for the heck of it (didn't really
> even need the potions for it, since with two Rings of Speed you can
> pillar-dance them), then quit to get the win screen and "died of Ripe
> Old Age" tombstone :-)

The traditional win story in the group is posted with a screenshot of
the tombstone.

> Funny how these hardware limitations tend to stick around; we've had
> huge high-resolution screens on desktop machines for years, but now we
> have to get things working on mobile devices.

Indeed. Better technology means we can have stuff with the same
limitations but now much smaller.

> I found the GitHub repository for the Moria code, and have been idly
> browsing it as the Windows binary seemed to have a couple of minor
> oddities (should monsters really be able to spawn in the same square as
> rubble?). I don't really speak C++ or have free time, but it's pretty
> well-commented so I'm at least getting a decent idea of how it all fits
> together.

Which one are you looking at? The C++ one I know of is a modern fork:

https://github.com/dungeons-of-moria/umoria

I don't think the "official" repo was ever on github, but this looks like
the authentic C (not C++) code:

https://github.com/HunterZ/umoria

This is my unofficial repo of the Palm OS Moria:

https://github.com/Eli-the-Bearded/kmoria

Somewhere out there is the original 4.x Pascal code, but I haven't gone
looking for it.

Eiijah
------
last used Pascal in the late 80s

[Igenlode Wordsmith]

X-Organization: The Ivory Tower ( http://ivory.ueuo.com/Tower )

On 31 Jul 2022 Rayner Lucas wrote:

>In article <eli$22073...@qaz.wtf>, *@eli.users.panix.com says...
>>
>> In rec.games.roguelike.moria,
>> Rayner Lucas <usenet...@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE> wrote:

>> > I've got a few invulnerability potions left over, so I might see if I
>> > can bag an AMHD for the monster memory, but apart from that Cowslip the
>> > Halfling Mage gets to enjoy a well-earned retirement.
>>
>> You need to quit, I think, to get the winner tombstone. If you die
>> before then, it's not a complete win.
>
>Yep, I went and killed an AMHD just for the heck of it (didn't really
>even need the potions for it, since with two Rings of Speed you can
>pillar-dance them), then quit to get the win screen and "died of Ripe
>Old Age" tombstone :-)
>

Congratulations! :-)

--
Igenlode Visit the Ivory Tower http://ivory.ueuo.com/Tower/

We live in a culture in which being well-spoken is considered
proof of insincerity.

[Rayner Lucas]

In article <eli$22073...@qaz.wtf>, *@eli.users.panix.com says...
>

> In rec.games.roguelike.moria,
> Rayner Lucas <usenet...@magic-cookie.co.ukNOSPAMPLEASE> wrote:

> > [Invulnerability potions]

>
> It's an over-powered potion.

Seems like it should be possible to rely on just Resist Fire and Healing
potions, possibly with a Rune of Protection or two. It would give a much
greater feeling of peril (you'd need to watch your HP closely and make
sure your fire resistance never dropped), but should still be winnable
even for a low-HP magic-reliant character. Something to try in the next
game, maybe.

> The traditional win story in the group is posted with a screenshot of
> the tombstone.

Darn, didn't see any previous winning posts in the group, at least as
far back as the retention on my news server went. Next time I'll know.

> > I found the GitHub repository for the Moria code, and have been idly
> > browsing it as the Windows binary seemed to have a couple of minor
> > oddities (should monsters really be able to spawn in the same square as
> > rubble?). I don't really speak C++ or have free time, but it's pretty
> > well-commented so I'm at least getting a decent idea of how it all fits
> > together.
>
> Which one are you looking at? The C++ one I know of is a modern fork:
>
> https://github.com/dungeons-of-moria/umoria

Ah, yes, I was playing version 5.7.15 downloaded from umoria.org, as
this seemed to be considered the current version when I went looking for
it and found the link on Beej's Moria pages (https://beej.us/moria/).

(As for the 4.8 Pascal sources, mrcook also seems to have those on
GitHub: https://github.com/dungeons-of-moria/vms-moria)

Rayner
(and thank you to Igenlode for the congratulations!)