Dungeon Crawl Comments (POSSIBLE SPOILER)

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N J Pilgrim

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Jan 2, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/2/98
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I've just completed Dungeon Crawl (v2.02), and found it a fairly good game,
even if I completed it rather easier and quicker than rogue (not completed)
and Angband.

Some aspects are rather good, but I found the following errors:
- When monsters level-drain you using a weapon (of drain level presumably)
then this can overflow. I had an XP of -135,001 (yes...thats a '-' sign)
- Stairs down didn't seem to be preserved after restoring from a 'saved'
game (labyrinth levels)
- Abominations and Ettins didn't have a description
- There may be a crash when you kill the tail of a monster (happened on my
way back up.
- The scroll of acquirement does not update its name from the
'asdfgasdgasd' name to 'scroll of acquirement'. I had a number of these,
read one, and the display in my inventory hadn't updated.
- After buying an item in a shop that I hadn't found before (e.g. scroll)
it reverted to having a 'asdgasdg' name out of the shop - even though I
'knew' what it was in the shop !
- If a giant spore explodes when it is on the edge of the viewable region
then it splits up the screen display.

Some further points:
- You can tell what spells do (roughly) which is a good idea in
spell_books_, but not in spell_staffs_ ! Possibly a use for this would be a
good idea.
- Why not keep track of time (as in moves made) so that on arriving back on
a level events have happened - e.g. corpses decaying to skeletons, etc.

I won with 'Cyril the Conjurer'. Magicians seem to have a *real* problem
with strength (carrying items). I had this problem until a low level when I
first found a hell entrance.
There was a shop selling potions of strength, intelligence, etc.

I can't think of anything else to say about it.
Any questions answered re this (I haven't given a great load of detail ;-)
)

Hope this helps,

Neil
Reply here or at: n.j.p...@durham.ac.uk
and n1pi...@aol.com
and ne...@ccpalmer.clara.net


Linley Henzell

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Jan 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/4/98
to N J Pilgrim

N J Pilgrim wrote:
>
> I've just completed Dungeon Crawl (v2.02), and found it a fairly good game,
> even if I completed it rather easier and quicker than rogue (not completed)
> and Angband.

I've increased the difficulty level a bit in 2.10.

>
> Some aspects are rather good, but I found the following errors:
> - When monsters level-drain you using a weapon (of drain level presumably)
> then this can overflow. I had an XP of -135,001 (yes...thats a '-' sign)

I think this has been fixed in 2.10. Level drain has also been made
rather less nasty: it now only drains you to one experience point less
than what you need to regain your current level.

> - Stairs down didn't seem to be preserved after restoring from a 'saved'
> game (labyrinth levels)

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Labyrinths contain only one
stairway, and that is the stairway in the middle (guarded by the
minotaur). If this stairway is disappearing, there are some serious
problems.

> - Abominations and Ettins didn't have a description

This is also fixed in 2.10: abominations now have a description, and
Ettins don't appear at all (they weren't supposed to after I replaced
them with two-headed ogres. They only appeared in 2.02 when orc
sorcerers summoned monster 4 (ettin) instead of monster 3 (red devil),
another problem which has also been fixed).

> - There may be a crash when you kill the tail of a monster (happened on my
> way back up.

I think (hope!) that this has been fixed. The worm code is a horrible
mess, and I avoid it whenever possible.

> - The scroll of acquirement does not update its name from the
> 'asdfgasdgasd' name to 'scroll of acquirement'. I had a number of these,
> read one, and the display in my inventory hadn't updated.
> - After buying an item in a shop that I hadn't found before (e.g. scroll)
> it reverted to having a 'asdgasdg' name out of the shop - even though I
> 'knew' what it was in the shop !

Both fixed in 2.10.

> - If a giant spore explodes when it is on the edge of the viewable region
> then it splits up the screen display.

Ick. I'll look at this.

>
> Some further points:
> - You can tell what spells do (roughly) which is a good idea in
> spell_books_, but not in spell_staffs_ ! Possibly a use for this would be a
> good idea.

You're right. Also, spell staves need to be improved (does anyone really
use them?). I may make spells cast from spell staves cost half magic
points.

> - Why not keep track of time (as in moves made) so that on arriving back on
> a level events have happened - e.g. corpses decaying to skeletons, etc.

The problem with this would be that it is very difficult to get monsters
to act without the presence of the player, so monsters really have to
stay stationary when you are away from the level. But clouds disappear
while you are off-level, and it wouldn't be too difficult to implement
corpse-rotting while you're away.

>
> I won with 'Cyril the Conjurer'. Magicians seem to have a *real* problem
> with strength (carrying items). I had this problem until a low level when I
> first found a hell entrance.
> There was a shop selling potions of strength, intelligence, etc.

This is kind of fixed in 2.10: every three experience levels, you can
increase strength, dex or intelligence by one point. On the other hand,
magicians now get less magic points, and specialist magicians can
memorise less non-speciality spells.

>
> I can't think of anything else to say about it.
> Any questions answered re this (I haven't given a great load of detail ;-)
> )
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Neil

Thanks for the feedback!

Linley Henzell

N J Pilgrim

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Jan 4, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/4/98
to

Linley Henzell <z...@olis.net.au> wrote
> > I've just completed Dungeon Crawl (v2.02), and found it a fairly good
game,
> > even if I completed it rather easier and quicker than rogue (not
completed)
> > and Angband.
>
> I've increased the difficulty level a bit in 2.10.

I'll have to try it ;-)
The Hall-way to hell seemed a little simple - what about more detail ?

> > Some aspects are rather good, but I found the following errors:
> > - When monsters level-drain you using a weapon (of drain level
presumably)
> > then this can overflow. I had an XP of -135,001 (yes...thats a '-'
sign)
>
> I think this has been fixed in 2.10. Level drain has also been made
> rather less nasty: it now only drains you to one experience point less
> than what you need to regain your current level.

This is what is done in other roguelike's isn't it ?

> > - Stairs down didn't seem to be preserved after restoring from a
'saved'
> > game (labyrinth levels)
>
> I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Labyrinths contain only one
> stairway, and that is the stairway in the middle (guarded by the
> minotaur). If this stairway is disappearing, there are some serious
> problems.

Should the stairway disappear after moving off the stairs ? It seemed to,
but I can't really test it very easily without going through it all again.
It certainly seemed to disappear after reloading a saved game.

> > - If a giant spore explodes when it is on the edge of the viewable
region
> > then it splits up the screen display.
>
> Ick. I'll look at this.

Good luck !

> > Some further points:
> > - You can tell what spells do (roughly) which is a good idea in
> > spell_books_, but not in spell_staffs_ ! Possibly a use for this would
be a
> > good idea.
>
> You're right. Also, spell staves need to be improved (does anyone really
> use them?). I may make spells cast from spell staves cost half magic
> points.

Spell staves *are* useful, but I don't tend to use the 'staves of
summoning', etc. since these always seem to be too specific for the spells
I currently have.

> Thanks for the feedback!

Glad to be of help.

I've just been trying to play a necromancer character, but the spells seem
very difficult to learn and I've been dying a lot early on. Also there is
no 'throw' spell until the 'nether bolt'. The main problem with summoning
monsters (presumably the same with creating skeletons) is that damage (and
XP earned) by monsters is just no use except if trying to slow down an
enemy, etc.
What about giving some fraction (low presumably) of the XP earnt to the
controller and some to the monster (assuming they have levels). Some degree
of control would be good (like that in ADOM?).

Ho hum.

Keep up the good work !


Neil

Linley Henzell

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Jan 5, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/5/98
to N J Pilgrim

N J Pilgrim wrote:
>
> Linley Henzell <z...@olis.net.au> wrote
> > > I've just completed Dungeon Crawl (v2.02), and found it a fairly good
> game,
> > > even if I completed it rather easier and quicker than rogue (not
> completed)
> > > and Angband.
> >
> > I've increased the difficulty level a bit in 2.10.
>
> I'll have to try it ;-)
> The Hall-way to hell seemed a little simple - what about more detail ?

Do you mean the Vestibule of Hell? This is supposed to be simple. It's
just a big room where you can choose which one of the four hells
(Tartarus, Cocytus, Gehenna or Dis) to visit.

> > > - When monsters level-drain you using a weapon (of drain level
> presumably)
> > > then this can overflow. I had an XP of -135,001 (yes...thats a '-'
> sign)
> >
> > I think this has been fixed in 2.10. Level drain has also been made
> > rather less nasty: it now only drains you to one experience point less
> > than what you need to regain your current level.
>
> This is what is done in other roguelike's isn't it ?

Nethack, at least. I think Angband uses a different system, and I'm not
sure about any others.

>
> > > - Stairs down didn't seem to be preserved after restoring from a
> 'saved'
> > > game (labyrinth levels)
> >

<snip>


>
> Should the stairway disappear after moving off the stairs ? It seemed to,
> but I can't really test it very easily without going through it all again.
> It certainly seemed to disappear after reloading a saved game.

Actually, the stairway that you took into the labyrinth disappears
somewhere between the creation of the level and your first move in the
labyrinth. Once you've stepped into a labyrinth, the only way out is to
get to the centre. This is somewhat easier in 2.10, as the teleport
traps have been removed (these were just too nasty).

>
> > > - If a giant spore explodes when it is on the edge of the viewable
> region
> > > then it splits up the screen display.
> >
> > Ick. I'll look at this.
>
> Good luck !

I found out what was wrong: in the explosion function, the window for
the explosion to be drawn in was too small. Any explosion (including
fireballs) which ocurred near the bottom of the viewing window would do
weird things.

>
> > > Some further points:
> > > - You can tell what spells do (roughly) which is a good idea in
> > > spell_books_, but not in spell_staffs_ ! Possibly a use for this would
> be a
> > > good idea.

I've given this some thought, but in the end I decided against it. Not
only would it be a little tricky to code (not very tricky at all,
actually, but I'm lazy), but when you read a spellbook for a spell
description, you find out what the spell does by examining the magical
writing. Staves aren't like that; you just have the spell name, and have
to work out what it does by experimentation.

On the other hand, in the next version spells cast from staves will cost
half the magic points to cast. I'll also put a greater variety of spells
into them.

>
> Spell staves *are* useful, but I don't tend to use the 'staves of
> summoning', etc. since these always seem to be too specific for the spells
> I currently have.

You just have to be lucky and find a staff which is appropriate for your
character's class. A conjurer wielding a staff of conjuration would be
lethal (and probably far too easy).

>
> > Thanks for the feedback!
>
> Glad to be of help.
>
> I've just been trying to play a necromancer character, but the spells seem
> very difficult to learn and I've been dying a lot early on. Also there is
> no 'throw' spell until the 'nether bolt'. The main problem with summoning

Well, you do have Pain (although I know it isn't great), and if you find
a book of death (I think that's where it is) you can get bone shards,
which is another attack spell.

> monsters (presumably the same with creating skeletons) is that damage (and
> XP earned) by monsters is just no use except if trying to slow down an
> enemy, etc.
> What about giving some fraction (low presumably) of the XP earnt to the
> controller and some to the monster (assuming they have levels). Some degree
> of control would be good (like that in ADOM?).
>

You get 1/3 of the xp for any monster killed by a tame creature, but
this is a recent addition and might not be in the version you're
playing. And no, monsters don't have levels; I plan to introduce this
sometime.

Some degree of control would also be nice, but at the moment the very
limited monster AI could probably not cope with it. But this is another
one of my long-term plans.

Thanks again,

Linley Henzell

Peng Zhou

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Jan 23, 1998, 3:00:00 AM1/23/98
to


Linley Henzell <z...@olis.net.au> wrote in article
<34B147...@olis.net.au>...


> N J Pilgrim wrote:
> >
> > Linley Henzell <z...@olis.net.au> wrote
> > > > I've just completed Dungeon Crawl (v2.02), and found it a fairly
good
> > game,
> > > > even if I completed it rather easier and quicker than rogue (not
> > completed)
> > > > and Angband.
> > >
> > > I've increased the difficulty level a bit in 2.10.

One reasons is the lack of a town level and unbeatable monsters. Angband
has monsters that have to be beaten using alot of healing potions. Maybe
this is good: having some monsters that have to be beaten by repeated
attacks and etc. Don't just give the player every eq he needs through the
levels, give him time to hunt for it(eg: carried by some monster).

> >
> > I'll have to try it ;-)
> > The Hall-way to hell seemed a little simple - what about more detail ?
>
> Do you mean the Vestibule of Hell? This is supposed to be simple. It's
> just a big room where you can choose which one of the four hells
> (Tartarus, Cocytus, Gehenna or Dis) to visit.

Maybe some guardians, I mean hell wouldn't just let you visit it for free
would it? Who knows who you might be... Might be a cleric, or a paladin,
or some holy guardian send down from heaven :) Some Liches would be nice
as guardians. Player put up a big fight trying to get in hell, etc.

How about this?

The staff of ultimate protection ( 1 charge )

zaps once gives all the armor enchancing spell that the game has for 600
turns total.

The staff of ultimate summoning ( 1 charge )

summons all the creatures summonable to your aid

This is also one of the features I would like. Maybe a give command to
equip skeletons and zombies also? They're too weak as for the instance, my
skeleton get killed by a rat(what???).

I also would like something to look at the mosnter's hp and ac and eq with.
I know this is asking much, but maybe you can start by letting look or
examine to see the monster's equipments too.

>
> Some degree of control would also be nice, but at the moment the very
> limited monster AI could probably not cope with it. But this is another
> one of my long-term plans.

Good luck with that, I've heard that it might be hard. The stay command
and follow command is easy, and probably also the move command. The attack
command is another matter.

>
> Thanks again,
>
> Linley Henzell
>

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