DCSS: Moving from Melee characters to Magic-oriented ones
Charles
really enjoying it, though I have been hitting alot of bad luck.
My best so far is 2 Runes with a Minotaur Fighter. Ive gotten one rune
a lot of times with melee oriented characters, but after that point I
really feel hindered without magic in many situations. Thusly, I have
decided to graduate up to a magic character! I have learned many
skills about surviving and would like more utility.
A few questions:
1. I started a spriggan, and I really like the stabbing/mage style.
Whats the best class to start with as a spriggan for spellcasting? Or
the most beginner oriented mage/race combo?
2. I got to player level 15 or so with a spriggan assassin, tried some
magic to not much luck. Apparently the Haste spell doesnt work on
spriggans? I kept getting the "You are already as fast as you can be"
message.
3. Casting some spells, and also eVoking my robe of invisibility
caused me to "glow" quite a bit. The occasional damage is not so bad
really, but for some reason it gave me many bad mutations
(teleportitus, multiple dex penalties). Does spellcasting just come
with these horrible side-effects, or was I doing something wrong? Was
it because I was casting high level spells with little skill?
Thanks in advance
Ivan Somero
> So Ive played this game like crazy over the past month or two, and I'm
> really enjoying it, though I have been hitting alot of bad luck.
> My best so far is 2 Runes with a Minotaur Fighter. Ive gotten one rune
> a lot of times with melee oriented characters, but after that point I
> really feel hindered without magic in many situations.
year. You're pretty good.
> 1. I started a spriggan, and I really like the stabbing/mage style.
> Whats the best class to start with as a spriggan for spellcasting? Or
> the most beginner oriented mage/race combo?
The best mage/race combo for a beginner is Deep Elf/Conjurer. It's a
powerful combination, but be careful. Mages in general don't have
nearly as much HP as fighters, and a DECj is particularly fragile.
Also, heavy armor impedes spellcasting. Use robes or light armor.
> 3. Casting some spells, and also eVoking my robe of invisibility
> caused me to "glow" quite a bit. The occasional damage is not so bad
> really, but for some reason it gave me many bad mutations
> (teleportitus, multiple dex penalties). Does spellcasting just come
> with these horrible side-effects, or was I doing something wrong? Was
> it because I was casting high level spells with little skill?
Miscasting spells, or using certain kinds of enchanted artifacts, will
magically contaminate you. Invisibility and controlled teleport
(either as evocations or spells) are especially at fault here.
> Thanks in advance
No problem
karry karry
> Wow, I've never gotten a rune yet, and I've been playing for almost a
> year. You're pretty good.
> The best mage/race combo for a beginner is Deep Elf/Conjurer.
There's your problem. Whoever told you Conjurer was the best combo was
lying to you. The best and easiest combo is without any doubt DeepElf
Fire Elementalist. One reason - Sticky Flame. That spell will kill
anything that moves for the entire game, except it wont help in the
final Zot level. Fortunately, with Fire Elementalist you could
gradually learn Earth through Magma Bolt and then Iron Bolt for
anything that is resistant to fire.
garron
> So Ive played this game like crazy over the past month or two, and I'm
> really enjoying it, though I have been hitting alot of bad luck.
>
> My best so far is 2 Runes with a Minotaur Fighter. Ive gotten one rune
> a lot of times with melee oriented characters, but after that point I
> really feel hindered without magic in many situations. Thusly, I have
> decided to graduate up to a magic character! I have learned many
> skills about surviving and would like more utility.
Consider a Merfolk Crusader. They get a lot of strong spells in their
starting book, and enchantments in general is a very strong spell
school. It's also easy for them to branch out into ice conjurations,
since you'll probably build some ice magic skill just from Freezing
Aura. But they also have decent close-combat skills, and you won't be
so frail as a pure spellcaster. And being able to swim is very useful
sometimes.
> A few questions:
> 1. I started a spriggan, and I really like the stabbing/mage style.
> Whats the best class to start with as a spriggan for spellcasting? Or
> the most beginner oriented mage/race combo?
Spriggans are in general a little hard to play with magic, just
because you'll have big problems with hunger later in the game if you
try casting too many high-level spells. Unless you can find a staff of
energy, which should be possible *eventually* but not always by the
time you need it. That said it's very possible to do well with a
Spriggan, and many people have -- but I'm not one of them ;P
> 3. Casting some spells, and also eVoking my robe of invisibility
> caused me to "glow" quite a bit. The occasional damage is not so bad
> really, but for some reason it gave me many bad mutations
> (teleportitus, multiple dex penalties). Does spellcasting just come
> with these horrible side-effects, or was I doing something wrong? Was
> it because I was casting high level spells with little skill?
As already said, certain evocations and spells will cause glow. Pay
attention to how far you can push it, and how much cooldown time you
need to avoid getting glow into yellow. For instance, casting Haste as
soon as your first Haste finishes will certainly give you yellow glow.
If you do get some high glow levels, the best thing you can do is to
put on an amulet of resist mutation and just wait it out while hoping
for the best. The mutations you get from glow are much more likely to
be bad than good.
Öö Tiib
> Spriggans are in general a little hard to play with magic, just
> because you'll have big problems with hunger later in the game if you
> try casting too many high-level spells. Unless you can find a staff of
> energy, which should be possible *eventually* but not always by the
> time you need it. That said it's very possible to do well with a
> Spriggan, and many people have -- but I'm not one of them ;P
Spriggan earth elementalist for example is fun. If it sleeps then stab
if it did wake up then sandblast if it is strong then then back up to
2 steps distance and sandblast with stones. You can do same generic
strategy with a bow or throwing but sandblast trains up spellcasting,
earth and transmutations that are more interesting future
possibilities than a bow has. Also it does not leave ammo to pick up
and costs no food from D:3 or so ... actually it may happen that
vegetarian food is stocking up even with "kill almost everything" game
for a while. Just do not jump to higher level spells before their food
cost has gone down as well.
eoghan griffin
Conjurers are easier to get off the ground, due to magic dart. And magma
bolt is in the conjurer book.
Both are perfectly valid choices though, just slightly different style.
Peter Huebner
e13aa6...@h30g2000vbr.googlegroups.com>, digdu...@gmail.com
says...
> 3. Casting some spells, and also eVoking my robe of invisibility
> caused me to "glow" quite a bit. The occasional damage is not so bad
> really, but for some reason it gave me many bad mutations
> (teleportitus, multiple dex penalties). Does spellcasting just come
> with these horrible side-effects, or was I doing something wrong? Was
> it because I was casting high level spells with little skill?
>
certain spells seem to cause more glow than others - hasting has been
implicated. Miscasting higher level newly learned spells seems to cause
quite a bit of glow; in fact it's my impression that the less likely
you are to succeed at casting (shift-I) the more likely you are to cause
glowing-by-miscast. Once I get the 'glow' condition to bright white I
slow down for a bit until it goes to dark grey or disappears entirely.
Sif Muna, in their description, ameliorates the results of miscasts - I
would assume this would to apply to glowing as well as whatever more
immediate explosive effects might be caused/averted. I won't vouch for
that though. Never had a problem with excessive glow on my casters - I
expect mostly because I don't push the envelope; I train up from small
and don't step up the spell ql until I am well and truly on top of it,
being able to afford it cost wise and making it reliable with expertise.
Think I only ever managed to reach yellow once or twice.
Recent example of a lowly ice elementalist: 3@ 'freeze' kills 1 ogre and
costs 3 MP (repeatedly)
3@ ice bolt results in 1 miss, one miscast, and maybe 20% damage to ogre
at much higher cost (12 MP). (didn't repeat that more than twice). In
fact I was somewhat stunned at how powerfull that level 1 spell got with
ice magic ~ level 8-10 on a character at level 8 also. SE or Merfolk, I
don't remember, they are what I've been messing about with lately.
-P.
serg271
> Consider a Merfolk Crusader. They get a lot of strong spells in their
> starting book, and enchantments in general is a very strong spell
> school. It's also easy for them to branch out into ice conjurations,
> since you'll probably build some ice magic skill just from Freezing
> Aura. But they also have decent close-combat skills, and you won't be
> so frail as a pure spellcaster. And being able to swim is very useful
> sometimes.
>
Merforlk Crusader with Berserker spell is still a hybrid fighter and
played more like fighter. However if you stumble on transmuter
spellbook you can play it as unarmed berserker-changeling. You can
stack berserker on top of blade hand or dragon form, or use blade hand
in the berserker aftermath
Jed Davis
> Recent example of a lowly ice elementalist: 3@ 'freeze' kills 1 ogre and
> costs 3 MP (repeatedly)
...except that then you're standing next to the ogre for three turns.
--
(let ((C call-with-current-continuation)) (apply (lambda (x y) (x y)) (map
((lambda (r) ((C C) (lambda (s) (r (lambda l (apply (s s) l)))))) (lambda
(f) (lambda (l) (if (null? l) C (lambda (k) (display (car l)) ((f (cdr l))
(C k))))))) '((#\J #\d #\D #\v #\s) (#\e #\space #\a #\i #\newline)))))
Öö Tiib
> Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> writes:
> > Recent example of a lowly ice elementalist: 3@ 'freeze' kills 1 ogre and
> > costs 3 MP (repeatedly)
>
> ...except that then you're standing next to the ogre for three turns.
Peter was right in the sense that freeze is better for a while. Using
it (or even more difficult spells) before reasonable power has been
reached is the usual mistake that players make. It is true that ice
bolt works from far and can single shot kill more powerful opponents
than monster ogre is (3d60 damage at max power or so), but at low
power it will be weak, fail and miss. Same thing may feel with slow,
two handed weapons wielded at a low skill but with spells it is worse
since spells hunger you, empty your mana pool, miscasts really hurt
and memory (that may be better used for some utility spells from other
books) is full.
Barrett
> Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> writes:
> > Recent example of a lowly ice elementalist: 3@ 'freeze' kills 1 ogre and
> > costs 3 MP (repeatedly)
>
> ...except that then you're standing next to the ogre for three turns.
>
Casting spells is a very, very quick action. That ogre is lucky if he
swings
at you once. There's a reason why MfIEs are the most powerful early
game
combo - freeze obliterates the early monsters and Merfolk have natural
ap-
titude for combat to take care of anything that's ice resistance. Only
an
OOD wyvern zombie can stop you before the lair, and if you get Oz'
Refri-
geration relatively early, you automatically win.
By the way, for those in doubt, protip: Oz Refrigeration >>> potions.
Better
to kill things en masse before they wake up and shatter some potions
than
to get hit and have to drink them anyway.
Stefan O'Rear
> On 5 out, 21:31, Jed Davis <j...@panix.com> wrote:
>> Peter Huebner <no....@this.address> writes:
>> > Recent example of a lowly ice elementalist: 3@ 'freeze' kills 1 ogre and
>> > costs 3 MP (repeatedly)
>>
>> ...except that then you're standing next to the ogre for three turns.
>>
>
> Casting spells is a very, very quick action. That ogre is lucky if he swings
> at you once. There's a reason why MfIEs are the most powerful early game
> combo - freeze obliterates the early monsters and Merfolk have natural ap-
> titude for combat to take care of anything that's ice resistance. Only an OOD
> wyvern zombie can stop you before the lair, and if you get Oz' Refri-
> geration relatively early, you automatically win.
Actually casting spells takes exactly the same amount of time as a monster
attack, or resting, or normal walking. It's just that Freeze comes with a
side order of 100% effective MR-ignoring paralysis.
(It's slightly different from normal wand paralysis, in that Frozen
monsters do not get the paralyzed graphic, are not stabbable, and don't
show as (paralyzed) in the menu. But the important part - they don't
get any turns - is the same.)
-sorear