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Should we fix the date of the 7drl challenge?
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Jeff Lait
Jan 25, 2012, 9:06:52 PM1/25/12
to
In the call for dates I also asked if people wanted to fix the dates,
rather than go through the ritual of having a week-long call for
dates.
There were by my count two votes for fixing. And one vote which was
sort of for varying, because the submitter said only one week would be
available for the next two years.
The first thing to ask when destroying a procedure is to ask why it
was there in the first place. We should ensure its original purpose
is indeed lost.
The call for dates served two purposes:
1) It verified there was enough interest to actually run the
challenge.
2) In the case of their only being a few people, it ensured we picked
a week at least some people would make it.
The first case isn't an issue.
The second case would seem important judging by the 2:1 ratio between
the favorite date and the other two dates. But are the responders to
the Call For Dates a suitable sample of the potential authors? Last
year we had 17 people select the favorite week and 98 challengers (I
have no idea if they overlap or not) We also had a 3:1 ratio last
year - would we have had only 30 challengers on Feb 26-Mar 6?
I'm not particularly convinced that would have happened. Indeed, I
note a strong bias towards people picking the latest date in general -
no doubt due to a procrastination effect.
OTOH, there are yearly festivals that can collide with the 7DRL date
and cause problems. GDC has collided before, and apparently did again
this year (sorry for not having checked it prior to posting so I could
have warned!)
There is an additional that has developed for this ritual. That is to
remind us that the 7DRL is upcoming. An interactive poll in which
people come out and post will force people to stop and think about
attending the 7DRL. A mere reminder post is liable to be ignored and
forgotten by the less organized of us.
I rather enjoy the exercise of posting the call for dates. Mind you,
if we stopped it, I could avoid the embarrassment of forgetting to
update the "Seventh" to "Eighth" each year :>
So here is my proposal for how to run a fixed-date system:
1) Second last Wednesday of January the challenge is posted. People
are asked to pledge their attendance.
(This is, of course, non-binding, and those who don't pledge of course
can still join! The goal is to ensure we still have a chance to rouse
people to action)
2) The week following the first Wednesday of March shall be the
challenge week!
(By my computations that would be these weeks:
Mar: 10-18 ##
Mar: 9-17
Mar: 8-16 #
Mar: 7-15 #
Mar: 6-14 #
Mar: 5-13 ##
Mar: 4-12
There is a # for each year a 7DRL ran in that week period, including
this years. The only annual 7drl that did not meet this format was
2006, which was Feb 25th.)
Does this seem an acceptable plan to all? It seems to be matching the
dates we are picking anyways :>
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)
rather than go through the ritual of having a week-long call for
dates.
There were by my count two votes for fixing. And one vote which was
sort of for varying, because the submitter said only one week would be
available for the next two years.
The first thing to ask when destroying a procedure is to ask why it
was there in the first place. We should ensure its original purpose
is indeed lost.
The call for dates served two purposes:
1) It verified there was enough interest to actually run the
challenge.
2) In the case of their only being a few people, it ensured we picked
a week at least some people would make it.
The first case isn't an issue.
The second case would seem important judging by the 2:1 ratio between
the favorite date and the other two dates. But are the responders to
the Call For Dates a suitable sample of the potential authors? Last
year we had 17 people select the favorite week and 98 challengers (I
have no idea if they overlap or not) We also had a 3:1 ratio last
year - would we have had only 30 challengers on Feb 26-Mar 6?
I'm not particularly convinced that would have happened. Indeed, I
note a strong bias towards people picking the latest date in general -
no doubt due to a procrastination effect.
OTOH, there are yearly festivals that can collide with the 7DRL date
and cause problems. GDC has collided before, and apparently did again
this year (sorry for not having checked it prior to posting so I could
have warned!)
There is an additional that has developed for this ritual. That is to
remind us that the 7DRL is upcoming. An interactive poll in which
people come out and post will force people to stop and think about
attending the 7DRL. A mere reminder post is liable to be ignored and
forgotten by the less organized of us.
I rather enjoy the exercise of posting the call for dates. Mind you,
if we stopped it, I could avoid the embarrassment of forgetting to
update the "Seventh" to "Eighth" each year :>
So here is my proposal for how to run a fixed-date system:
1) Second last Wednesday of January the challenge is posted. People
are asked to pledge their attendance.
(This is, of course, non-binding, and those who don't pledge of course
can still join! The goal is to ensure we still have a chance to rouse
people to action)
2) The week following the first Wednesday of March shall be the
challenge week!
(By my computations that would be these weeks:
Mar: 10-18 ##
Mar: 9-17
Mar: 8-16 #
Mar: 7-15 #
Mar: 6-14 #
Mar: 5-13 ##
Mar: 4-12
There is a # for each year a 7DRL ran in that week period, including
this years. The only annual 7drl that did not meet this format was
2006, which was Feb 25th.)
Does this seem an acceptable plan to all? It seems to be matching the
dates we are picking anyways :>
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)
Konstantin Stupnik
Jan 25, 2012, 10:45:53 PM1/25/12
to
> 2) The week following the first Wednesday of March shall be the
> challenge week!
In some counties (including Russia) it is widely celebrated.
So basically it is out of question to use this day for coding.
Setting challenge week with this day inside will put some people in
serious disadvantage.
Krice
Jan 26, 2012, 4:49:34 AM1/26/12
to
On 26 tammi, 05:45, Konstantin Stupnik <konstantin.stup...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I think the date should be determined with rng and then everyone
just settles for that or get out the kitchen sink.
wrote:
> 8th of March is so called 'International Women's Day'.
> In some counties (including Russia) it is widely celebrated.
> So basically it is out of question to use this day for coding.
It's the perfect day for coding then.
> In some counties (including Russia) it is widely celebrated.
> So basically it is out of question to use this day for coding.
I think the date should be determined with rng and then everyone
just settles for that or get out the kitchen sink.
sdp...@gmail.com
Jan 26, 2012, 1:15:49 PM1/26/12
to
Perhaps there is a compromise:
March (or whatever chosen month) is Roguelike Month. You must start
your 7drl between the 1st and 24th, meaning that all will be finished
by the 31st. April 1st would be a day celebration (or crying).
Since it's all on the honor system anyway, this may let more people
participate in the fun and still have a set period so we are all in it
"together".
March (or whatever chosen month) is Roguelike Month. You must start
your 7drl between the 1st and 24th, meaning that all will be finished
by the 31st. April 1st would be a day celebration (or crying).
Since it's all on the honor system anyway, this may let more people
participate in the fun and still have a set period so we are all in it
"together".
Todd Page
Jan 26, 2012, 3:39:29 PM1/26/12
to
huge selling point. (For me anyways, and that is the impression i got
from others last year based on 7drl.org comments)
Jeff,
There is something to be said for this:
'There is an additional that has developed for this ritual. That is
to
remind us that the 7DRL is upcoming. An interactive poll in which
people come out and post will force people to stop and think about
attending the 7DRL. A mere reminder post is liable to be ignored and
forgotten by the less organized of us. '
I hadn't really considered that, but now that I have argued for a
remind us that the 7DRL is upcoming. An interactive poll in which
people come out and post will force people to stop and think about
attending the 7DRL. A mere reminder post is liable to be ignored and
forgotten by the less organized of us. '
fixed period I think I am changing my mind. Also, r.g.r.d is sort of
an old and crusty corner of the internet and I like keeping some
traditions alive. :)
However, I do think you are right in that based on 2011 and 2010, we
would've seen no appreciable divergence in the number of participants
if we had moved forwards/back a week. The challenge is relatively
popular these days. Obviously I'll plan on participating either way.
However (x2) this cuts both ways... as long as there is someone (like
you) willing to take up the small administrative burden of putting up
the poll, there is a almost no benefit for a fixed date. And like you
said, there is always the added potential to be flexible.
Certainly the 'first full week after the first wednesday in March' is
the perfect target to shoot for, but poking everyone on r.g.r.d every
year to make sure that's good is not necessarily a bad thing.
So... not sure if this post is actually helpful to anyone or not. :)
JO
Jan 26, 2012, 10:18:56 PM1/26/12
to
As long as you keep it in March you should be fine. It may be that
not many people vote for the date because they don't care too much.
Any week is okay. Those that do vote are the ones for whom it matters.
So the voting is good. The reminder thing cannot be over stated. I
like the build up. It goes like this.
1. Someone in late Jan starts asking "When is the competition this
year. I have a great idea for a Super Hero RL called Underpants On The
Outside." Hype and interest are building.
2. A vote gets put together to figure out when is the best day to do
it. Those that don't care what week don't really vote. Those who need
it to be a certain week do vote. There is discussion and that
discussion breeds hype.
3. The competition date is set. More hype. More anticipation
4. Big announcement that the competition is starting. The internet is
chattering up a storm.
In short i like the build up and am very excited for this years
competition.
not many people vote for the date because they don't care too much.
Any week is okay. Those that do vote are the ones for whom it matters.
So the voting is good. The reminder thing cannot be over stated. I
like the build up. It goes like this.
1. Someone in late Jan starts asking "When is the competition this
year. I have a great idea for a Super Hero RL called Underpants On The
Outside." Hype and interest are building.
2. A vote gets put together to figure out when is the best day to do
it. Those that don't care what week don't really vote. Those who need
it to be a certain week do vote. There is discussion and that
discussion breeds hype.
3. The competition date is set. More hype. More anticipation
4. Big announcement that the competition is starting. The internet is
chattering up a storm.
In short i like the build up and am very excited for this years
competition.
Darren Grey
Jan 27, 2012, 8:09:27 AM1/27/12
to
On Jan 26, 2:06 am, Jeff Lait <torespondisfut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> So here is my proposal for how to run a fixed-date system:
>
> 1) Second last Wednesday of January the challenge is posted. People
> are asked to pledge their attendance.
>
> So here is my proposal for how to run a fixed-date system:
>
> 1) Second last Wednesday of January the challenge is posted. People
> are asked to pledge their attendance.
>
> 2) The week following the first Wednesday of March shall be the
> challenge week!
I think if there are significant objections to the first date
> challenge week!
(conflict with some event etc) then we should retain the flexibility
to change. With a further confirmation to follow this means we still
have the atmosphere of build-up / announcement / etc, whilst also
having the benefit of being able to plan ahead for those who need to
get their schedules clear in advance. No week is perfect of course,
even with voting, but I'm pretty sure every year we'll have a good
number of participants regardless. Also, if we find this system
doesn't work next year then we can go back to the traditional method.
This also means a fixing of ARRP each year. Though there may be some
calendar fiddlery, I think we should say outright that it always be
the second weekend in September (actually generally a bad time for me,
but it fits in with the 6 month thing).
Some sort of consistency of IRDC would be nice too, but obviously we
have to be a lot more flexible with when people can travel etc.
--
Darren Grey
Jeff Lait
Jan 27, 2012, 10:27:48 AM1/27/12
to
> Perhaps there is a compromise:
>
> March (or whatever chosen month) is Roguelike Month. You must start
> your 7drl between the 1st and 24th, meaning that all will be finished
> by the 31st. April 1st would be a day celebration (or crying).
One month is too spread out and desaturated. We're already stretching
>
> March (or whatever chosen month) is Roguelike Month. You must start
> your 7drl between the 1st and 24th, meaning that all will be finished
> by the 31st. April 1st would be a day celebration (or crying).
things by allowing a full weekend float.
Note you can always write a 7DRL whenever you want. The Challenge is
specifically about writing one at the same time as other people.
Jeff Lait
Jan 27, 2012, 10:43:22 AM1/27/12
to
On Jan 27, 8:09 am, Darren Grey <darrenjohng...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 26, 2:06 am, Jeff Lait <torespondisfut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So here is my proposal for how to run a fixed-date system:
>
> > 1) Second last Wednesday of January the challenge is posted. People
> > are asked to pledge their attendance.
>
> > 2) The week following the first Wednesday of March shall be the
> > challenge week!
>
> I think if there are significant objections to the first date
> (conflict with some event etc) then we should retain the flexibility
> to change.
But how do we determine significant objections? A vote? Things
> On Jan 26, 2:06 am, Jeff Lait <torespondisfut...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > So here is my proposal for how to run a fixed-date system:
>
> > 1) Second last Wednesday of January the challenge is posted. People
> > are asked to pledge their attendance.
>
> > 2) The week following the first Wednesday of March shall be the
> > challenge week!
>
> I think if there are significant objections to the first date
> (conflict with some event etc) then we should retain the flexibility
> to change.
become somewhat circular :>
How about this system:
1) The tentative date for the 7drl challenge is always the week
following the first wednesday of march.
2) We run a call for dates in which people say:
a) Can they make it to the proposed date?
b) If not, what of two alternative dates can they make it?
If the alternative dates outweigh the main date, we will switch it to
that. Note people who can make it on the main date do not vote for an
alternative date, so this will require a large shift to dislodge the
proposed date.
To clarify, if the proposed date is A and the alternative date B & C.
#B > #A means that set of people who can make it on B but also canNOT
make it on A is greater than the number who can make it on A.
To use this years numbers, let's say the proposed date was Feb 24 and
the alternative Mar 10.
A pure popularity vote based on how many people can make it gives:
A: 9
B: 19
In the proposed vote counting system, all the A votes would count, but
any who voted for both A & B would not count towards B. So the actual
total for B would be 9.
TL;DR: I think this makes for a mechanistic mechanism for fixing the
date, but ensuring if we get a significant shift in interest we'll
move it.
> Some sort of consistency of IRDC would be nice too, but obviously we
> have to be a lot more flexible with when people can travel etc.
Konstantin Stupnik
Jan 30, 2012, 2:52:23 AM1/30/12
to
We can make voting ternary.
-1 (against), 0 (neutral), 1(preferred).
IMO this way relevancy of the week that is the most convenient for
majority is somewhat higher.
-1 (against), 0 (neutral), 1(preferred).
IMO this way relevancy of the week that is the most convenient for
majority is somewhat higher.
Ido Yehieli
Jan 31, 2012, 6:55:05 AM1/31/12
to
Stick to the tradition, is my vote! We don't have that many holy cows to slaughter around here :)
-Ido.
Todd Page
Feb 1, 2012, 5:08:32 PM2/1/12
to
fixed date.
The 7DRL challenge has grown exponentially over the past few years...
so obviously we are doing something right. If it ain't broke, don't
fix it, and all of that!!
(Although leave it to the roguelike dev community to completely break
down any potential "voting mechanic" :)
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