*lurks deep in the shadows*

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ShockFrost

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Jun 11, 2004, 5:46:28 PM6/11/04
to
There has been a change.

R Dan Henry

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Jun 13, 2004, 3:45:13 AM6/13/04
to
On 11 Jun 2004 14:46:28 -0700, in a fit of madness shock...@yahoo.com
(ShockFrost) declared:

>There has been a change.

You now want to write a variant of Minesweeper?

--
R. Dan Henry
danh...@inreach.com
They can have my ASCII graphics when they pry them
from my cold dead (c) and (d) slots.

ShockFrost

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Jun 13, 2004, 5:51:47 PM6/13/04
to
R Dan Henry <danh...@inreach.com> wrote in message news:<4g1oc0tdka9lut256...@4ax.com>...

> On 11 Jun 2004 14:46:28 -0700, in a fit of madness shock...@yahoo.com
> (ShockFrost) declared:
>
> >There has been a change.
>
> You now want to write a variant of Minesweeper?

*lurks in the deep*

crichmon

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Jun 13, 2004, 7:20:56 PM6/13/04
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"ShockFrost" <shock...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cd6e3975.04061...@posting.google.com...

Is that that title?


crichmon


ShockFrost

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Jun 14, 2004, 6:54:09 PM6/14/04
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"crichmon" <crich...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<sj5zc.8589$Y3....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net>...

*pores over old texts*
Nintendo has started work on a new handheld. The SP will shift out too
late - I need work now and the project is only 40% complete. It won't
see the light of a market that will support it, not without the power
of an industry giant.

Missed the window, flat out.

*pores over old texts in boredom, ignoring the occasional thumping on
the reinforced door*

ShockFrost

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Jun 16, 2004, 4:32:08 AM6/16/04
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shock...@yahoo.com (ShockFrost) wrote in message news:<cd6e3975.0406...@posting.google.com>...

*cracks open a book labeled with the runes "XSTBASIC" on the
binding...

*his eyebrows shift*

"Hmmm, remarkably similar to my old native tongue... transmutable to
C... this may work..."

*mutters to himself*

R Dan Henry

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Jun 16, 2004, 2:54:13 PM6/16/04
to
On 16 Jun 2004 01:32:08 -0700, in a fit of madness shock...@yahoo.com
(ShockFrost) declared:

>
>*mutters to himself*

Yes, that is indeed an accurate account of your recent postings. Are you
planning on actually posting something other than vanity quips or are
you just here to maintain your ego?

Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes

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Jun 16, 2004, 3:43:47 PM6/16/04
to
R Dan Henry <danh...@inreach.com>

wrote on Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:54:13 -0700:
> On 16 Jun 2004 01:32:08 -0700, in a fit of madness shock...@yahoo.com
> (ShockFrost) declared:
>>*mutters to himself*
> Yes, that is indeed an accurate account of your recent postings. Are you
> planning on actually posting something other than vanity quips or are
> you just here to maintain your ego?

You know what he posted before. What's the difference, other than
line count?

--
<a href="http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/"> Mark Hughes </a>
"The Oval Office carpet is thick with Presidential semen. They look out of the
window, think "I own you all" and jack off like ugly apes in humping season.
It's what they live for. No one who wants that is to be trusted. Why can't you
all /see/ that?" -Warren Ellis, _Transmetropolitan #16_

ShockFrost

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Jun 16, 2004, 5:58:30 PM6/16/04
to
R Dan Henry <danh...@inreach.com> wrote in message news:<qt70d0l23kibovhfn...@4ax.com>...

> On 16 Jun 2004 01:32:08 -0700, in a fit of madness shock...@yahoo.com
> (ShockFrost) declared:
>
> >
> >*mutters to himself*
>
> Yes, that is indeed an accurate account of your recent postings. Are you
> planning on actually posting something other than vanity quips or are
> you just here to maintain your ego?

*taking his staff, he carefully traces over the Rune of Obstruction
insigned on the door, increasing the strength of the jam*

".*muttermutter* stupid shamans and trolls and werewolves and vampires
and werewolf vampires and the vampires feuding with the werewolves
feuding with the vampires feuding with the werewolf vampires . . ."

*continues to scribble in the journal*
Latest entry:
~Persna Gener... ...lete~
(the entry trails off illegibly in the middle)

ShockFrost

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Jun 16, 2004, 11:45:43 PM6/16/04
to
shock...@yahoo.com (ShockFrost) wrote in message news:<cd6e3975.04061...@posting.google.com>...

Latest entry:
"~98skill~98scale, something is wrong...
should be 100, should be 100... u.u;
And what kind of scale for Transmogrification does an adventurer have
anyway. ń_ń How excessive of me..."

ShockFrost

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Jun 17, 2004, 4:52:32 AM6/17/04
to
shock...@yahoo.com (ShockFrost) wrote in message news:<cd6e3975.04061...@posting.google.com>...

Frustrated with a problem, he signs across the top in deep, bold red
ink, in elder DETHEK,
"NOT EVERY ADVENTURER MUST KNOW ELECTRIC MAGIC"
and it is suddenly true.

ShockFrost

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Jun 17, 2004, 5:20:40 AM6/17/04
to
Then, he finds it.

"Ah! This is the paragraph, right here."

Running his fingers over the old runes, they light and dance.

XSTBASIC changes to C!

ñ_ñ "Well, what do you know. Now, the tough part."

Preparing for sparks, he touches the end of his DJGPP staff to the
code...

But the result is nothing more than a bluish glow and a soft hum.

DM.exe is born.

^w^ "Ha ha! This simplifies matters quite a lot. It seems the
transmutation magic is more powerful than I had originally hoped."

Latest journal entry - the handwriting is looking a little more
legible now:
"Skill archival and class skill tables complete. Custom character
builds are complete up to skill generation sets. Cascading item
production is next~"

SZDev - Slash

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Jun 17, 2004, 12:29:24 PM6/17/04
to
It seems a bit like Ygaz the fool of adom (Not sure of the spelling)

--
---------------------------------------
Santiago Zapata

L:Java E++ T- R+ !P D+ G++ F:ADoM RL* RLA-
W:G Q++ AI+ GFX- SFX- RN++++ PO--- Hp- Re+ S+ c-- ?OS *KG
---------------------------------------


"ShockFrost" <shock...@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:cd6e3975.04061...@posting.google.com...

ShockFrost

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Jun 18, 2004, 2:32:45 AM6/18/04
to
> It seems a bit like Ygaz the fool of adom (Not sure of the spelling)
>
> --
> ---------------------------------------
> Santiago Zapata
>
> L:Java E++ T- R+ !P D+ G++ F:ADoM RL* RLA-
> W:G Q++ AI+ GFX- SFX- RN++++ PO--- Hp- Re+ S+ c-- ?OS *KG
> ---------------------------------------

Listening to the sound outside the door, he shakes his head and keeps
working.

Latest entry:
"Basic Cascade complete. Generic type, subtype, perma, temp, dura,
data, and 20 effecttype/effectdata pairs across 5000 items active at
any time.

Character production and file structure operational(incomplete files).
BETA .03 is complete.
Next phase: Surface map."

Those who know me, know where to get the beta.
If you don't know, you should learn to ask nicer, or do some homework.
ñ_ñ;

To get the next beta uploaded, post your character. I want 3
characters frm the generator before the next BETA is posted.

Jeff Lait

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Jun 19, 2004, 3:07:23 AM6/19/04
to
shock...@yahoo.com (ShockFrost) wrote in message news:<cd6e3975.04061...@posting.google.com>...

>
> Character production and file structure operational(incomplete files).
> BETA .03 is complete.
> Next phase: Surface map."
>
> Those who know me, know where to get the beta.
> If you don't know, you should learn to ask nicer, or do some homework.
> ń_ń;

>
> To get the next beta uploaded, post your character. I want 3
> characters frm the generator before the next BETA is posted.

Okay, I'll bite:
S'rar
1
9
13
9
16
10
9
11
13
5
17
2
31
1
47
1
63
1
72
1

I hope you haven't nerfed Carving.
--
Jeff Lait
(POWDER: http://www.zincland.com/powder)

ShockFrost

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Jun 19, 2004, 2:26:41 PM6/19/04
to
torespon...@hotmail.com (Jeff Lait) wrote in message news:<774acfb8.04061...@posting.google.com>...

> shock...@yahoo.com (ShockFrost) wrote in message news:<cd6e3975.04061...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > Character production and file structure operational(incomplete files).
> > BETA .03 is complete.
> > Next phase: Surface map."
> >
> > Those who know me, know where to get the beta.
> > If you don't know, you should learn to ask nicer, or do some homework.
> > ñ_ñ;


ñ_ñ
Carving is good for turning solid wood into objects. The better your
skill, the greater-value object you can carve. You need a blade or
better, a whittling knife. Wood runestones can be fashioned this way;
a very small number of symbols become much more powerful when carved
into wood. Most will not work much at all. Carving is a key skill for
artificers as wood often holds a lot of deep power (while its
durability isn't as good as metal) and metal rarely holds any, so
making wood equipment is often the fastest way to fashion something
decently magical.

And chain weapons include spiked chains, and flails. They have the
advantage of occasionally wrapping up someone's weapon and disarming
them, depending on the strength of the user versus the strength of the
chainer. It's a good way to protect yourself against early armed
enemies.

The average 'skilled' player will have 10 levels in a skill - until
you do, the more skill you have, the easier it is to gain levels, so
your chain skills will shoot up quickly. It's getting that first level
that's the most difficult, and you save a lot of time by spending to
develop early on.

To get a skill past level 10 gradually gets harder. A skill can be
increased to level 100.

*goes back to the topside level generation puzzle*

Elethiomel

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Jun 19, 2004, 2:38:55 PM6/19/04
to

From this simple description, which is the first I've really heard of
your game that I've been able to decipher, I really like what I see. If
you could be so kind as to furnish me with a link to where I can find
more information, this generator you speak of, maybe, and perhaps even
the next version of the game when it is released, I should be very grateful.

ShockFrost

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Jun 20, 2004, 6:25:05 PM6/20/04
to
> From this simple description, which is the first I've really heard of
> your game that I've been able to decipher, I really like what I see. If
> you could be so kind as to furnish me with a link to where I can find
> more information, this generator you speak of, maybe, and perhaps even
> the next version of the game when it is released, I should be very grateful.

:o

Someone asked nicely.
ń_ń

http://www.geocities.com/shockfrost/

It's there, waiting. It's not much to look at now.

ABCGi

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Jun 20, 2004, 7:37:26 PM6/20/04
to
On 2004-06-21 00:25:05, shock...@yahoo.com (ShockFrost) wrote:

> > From this simple description, which is the first I've really heard of
> > your game that I've been able to decipher, I really like what I see. If
> > you could be so kind as to furnish me with a link to where I can find
> > more information, this generator you speak of, maybe, and perhaps even
> > the next version of the game when it is released, I should be very grateful.
>
> :o
>
> Someone asked nicely.

> ñ_ñ


>
> http://www.geocities.com/shockfrost/
>
> It's there, waiting. It's not much to look at now.

You seem to be treating this group as though we are a bunch of fanboys, instead
of a group of equal developers sharing and helping out. You should post on misc
or something for fanboys.

Your announcement would of been more professional, mature and less time-wasting
if it was something like;

"CHAMPIONS OF DRAGONMORE (COD)
Hi, ShockFrost here, I've been in this group before with *lots* and *lots* of
good ideas but not much action. I have now produced a RL exe called COD that
allows the player to roll a character with skills but no game play, you can
beta test the Windows exe for me here: http://www.geocities.com/shockfrost/ -
thanks for your help!"

Anyway, good to see some action, I liked the list of skills and the different
approach to character generation, and the hint of some of your city ideas
finally being implemented. But, indeed, there is not really anything to test
yet. Will it be open source?

--
ABCGi ab...@yahoo.com http://abcgi.fly.to S14 D15 I17 W12 C9
PS I had your web site from before, you should host COD somewhere decent.

ShockFrost

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Jun 21, 2004, 5:16:02 AM6/21/04
to
> You seem to be treating this group as though we are a bunch of fanboys, instead
> of a group of equal developers sharing and helping out. You should post on misc
> or something for fanboys.
>
> Your announcement would of been more professional, mature and less time-wasting
> if it was something like;
>
> --EXAMPLE--

Last time I was professional, I discovered three things -

1. Amy Wang responds to any large project that she can't grasp the ken
of, with hate and discouragement. But she responds to idiocy with
mostly disgusted ignorance. Hence, look like an incohesive idiot, and
Amy leaves you alone.

2. The time you waste explaining the structure of your program, you
could spend coding that program just as quickly.

3. People are going to think what they want to think... regardless of
how businesslike, unprofessional, opinionated, or logical you are.

That's the idea.

Now you tell me which set of common options looks better to you

DEVELOPER MAKES SHORT POSTS ABOUT IDEAS
Option 1. Someone takes your idea out of context and criticizes.
Option 2. Someone tries to tell you a 'better way' to do what you're
doing, often not fully grasping the outlaying structure you're using.
Option 3. People will centralize on the concept, discarding everything
else you've said.
Option 4. You will get well-wishers, nay-sayers, and people will
harass you for more details.

You get these 4 options in irrational proportion. Your posts will
recieve low traffic, usually of the above nature.

DEVELOPER MAKES LENGTHY POSTS ABOUT IDEAS
Option 1. Developer is cracked. Ideas are nuts. The project will be a
wash.
Option 2. Developer has good ideas but will never form them into
anything useful.
Option 3. Developer can code but no one will ever want to play the
game because it won't be (fun, for the right audience, or X-Factor
number 5)
Option 4. It soundz kool man yah 8-) Wheres the beta.?
Option 5. I stand for everything you stand for and if you succeed you
will be the hero of all and me.

You will get an irrational mix of these 5 options. Your posts will be
very active, mostly for people picking apart the seams, attempting to
see problems before they exist for you, making baby adjustments to
their system, etc. Most people don't bother reading everything; some
post anyway. Many complain about concepts they don't really understand
because communication is imperfect.

DEVELOPER POSTS RHETORICAL NONSENSE
Option 1. Someone recognizes developer and says 'hello and good luck'.
Option 2. Someone heckles developer, but without having any real
targets they are reduced to generic, less painful insults.
Option 3. Someone asks a question or begs for a beta.

You will get these 3 options in irrational proportions. Your posts
will be nearly completely inactive, excepting the types outlined
above. Rather than explain your code, you code your code, which
improves productivity considerably.

Of the option sets, I chose #3.

If I run into development issues, I'll let you know. Otherwise, I'll
continue 'raving madly in my study' to transmit encrypted progress
messages to the watching community and ward off the Wang Demons.

As a footnote, it took me 40 minutes to explain this process. Now
watch how long it takes to act on it.

--

Noting the voice of his old friend ABCGi outside the door, he yells,
"I'm sorry if you're offended by the barriers, friend, but you'll have
to make do until I can be certain of the Amulet's location. I will
risk no secrets to enemy eyes and fingers."

And with that he continues poring over the XSTBASIC spellbook.

--

Clocked 1 minute 20 seconds.

*twitches*

Enough demonstration.

crichmon

unread,
Jun 21, 2004, 6:01:16 AM6/21/04
to
"ShockFrost" <shock...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Last time I was professional, I discovered three things -
>
> 1. Amy Wang responds to any large project that she can't
> grasp the ken of, with hate and discouragement. But she
> responds to idiocy with mostly disgusted ignorance. Hence,
> look like an incohesive idiot, and Amy leaves you alone.

I think I agree that Amy Wang is... not at all encouraging. The only point
of hers that I can agree with were some of her somewhat remote promotions of
a more collaborative effort from r.g.r.d regulars.


> 2. The time you waste explaining the structure of your
> program, you could spend coding that program just as
> quickly.

Can't hashing out ideas be benefitial...?


> 3. People are going to think what they want to think...
> regardless of how businesslike, unprofessional,
> opinionated, or logical you are.
>
> That's the idea.

Yup.

An interesting simplification. But isn't the sharing of ideas on related
topics an aspect of reading and writing to newsgroups?


> DEVELOPER POSTS RHETORICAL NONSENSE
> Option 1. Someone recognizes developer and says 'hello and
> good luck'.
> Option 2. Someone heckles developer, but without having
> any real targets they are reduced to generic, less painful
> insults.
> Option 3. Someone asks a question or begs for a beta.
>
> You will get these 3 options in irrational proportions.
> Your posts will be nearly completely inactive, excepting
> the types outlined above.

...


> Rather than explain your code, you code your code, which
> improves productivity considerably.

A pro? con? of the independant/lonewolf approach to development.

> Of the option sets, I chose #3.

Why post at all then? Just curious, and not to imply that you shouldn't.
Rhetorical nonsense can be amusing.


> If I run into development issues, I'll let you know.
> Otherwise, I'll continue 'raving madly in my study' to
> transmit encrypted progress messages to the watching
> community and ward off the Wang Demons.

...


> As a footnote, it took me 40 minutes to explain this
> process. Now watch how long it takes to act on it.
> --
> Noting the voice of his old friend ABCGi outside the
> door, he yells, "I'm sorry if you're offended by the
> barriers, friend, but you'll have to make do until I
> can be certain of the Amulet's location.

...

> I will risk no secrets to enemy eyes and fingers."

An issue I ponder now and then. Personally, I'd like to develop my ideas
into a cohesive game, and I intend to complete that game at some point in
the future. But if other developers take someone elses ideas and run with
them, is that appreciation? Or is it (as you seem to imply) stealing?


> And with that he continues poring over the XSTBASIC
> spellbook.
> --
> Clocked 1 minute 20 seconds.
> *twitches*
> Enough demonstration.

...

damn this insomnia,
crichmon


Erik Piper

unread,
Jun 21, 2004, 6:07:10 AM6/21/04
to
bork bork bork ShockFrost bork 12:25:05 AM bork 6/21/2004 bork bork:

Comments:
- The deep blue font used in the character generation screen is
horrible to read.
- The fact that you sometimes need to press Enter to confirm things,
and sometimes not, and there's no indication of which is which, "feels"
wrong to me.
- I can't understand the point of gradually revealing more and more
skills with each press of "reveal more skills." Are these skills less
and less appropriate for the player with each new "revealing," or
something?

Still, it'll be great if there's that much detail and it all does
something interesting.

Erik

Gerry Quinn

unread,
Jun 21, 2004, 6:08:39 AM6/21/04
to
In article <cd6e3975.04062...@posting.google.com>,
shock...@yahoo.com says...

>
> Last time I was professional, I discovered three things -

You weren't all *that* professional - your talk to achievement ratio was
too high.

I see you have been doing some stuff, i.e. your card game and your
'persona model', and that's good. There's no need to go to the opposite
extreme and pretend to be terrified of the Greater Wang Beast.

People should know that you need good fire resistance before entering
usenet, and skills in melee and missile combat do not go amiss!

I am interested in your graduated introduction of 'unlearned skills'.
Does the sequence indicate that the character has a 'talent' for the
ones that appear earlier, that they are likely to appear spontaneously,
or whatever?

Gerry Quinn
http://bindweed.com
Games, Kaleidoscopes, and Screensavers
Try Chomp! - the new game of logical deduction

The Sheep

unread,
Jun 21, 2004, 8:09:01 AM6/21/04
to
Dnia 21 Jun 2004 02:16:02 -0700, ShockFrost napisal(a):

> Now you tell me which set of common options looks better to you
>
> DEVELOPER MAKES SHORT POSTS ABOUT IDEAS
> Option 1. Someone takes your idea out of context and criticizes.
> Option 2. Someone tries to tell you a 'better way' to do what you're
> doing, often not fully grasping the outlaying structure you're using.
> Option 3. People will centralize on the concept, discarding everything
> else you've said.
> Option 4. You will get well-wishers, nay-sayers, and people will
> harass you for more details.
>
> You get these 4 options in irrational proportion. Your posts will
> recieve low traffic, usually of the above nature.

You gain some knowledge from Options 1 and 2. You need to filter the
things you need from the things you don't, but it's normal.

> DEVELOPER MAKES LENGTHY POSTS ABOUT IDEAS

<snip>

> DEVELOPER POSTS RHETORICAL NONSENSE
> Option 1. Someone recognizes developer and says 'hello and good luck'.
> Option 2. Someone heckles developer, but without having any real
> targets they are reduced to generic, less painful insults.
> Option 3. Someone asks a question or begs for a beta.
>
> You will get these 3 options in irrational proportions. Your posts
> will be nearly completely inactive, excepting the types outlined
> above. Rather than explain your code, you code your code, which
> improves productivity considerably.
>
> Of the option sets, I chose #3.

Well, how about:

DEVELOPER DOESN'T POST AT ALL
Option 1. Developer can spend all his time coding.
Option 2. Noone insults developer.
Option 3. Noone bothers developer begging for beta, it's released and
announced when ready.

Your post will be totally inactive. You'll save your bandwidth.
You won't get any help form anyone, but you don't expect it anyways.


Note: I'm not saying you should choose the set #4, I just point out
the nonsense of `gain' of set #3.

--
Radomir `The Sheep' Dopieralski
Whatever you're looking for, you always find it
in the last place you check. Coincidence?

ABCGi

unread,
Jun 21, 2004, 4:17:32 PM6/21/04
to

Funny, and some good points :) Don't grow up too much! Ok get back to work, I
look forward to seeing ShockFrost cities.

Note this short post took 35 seconds!

ABCGi

unread,
Jun 21, 2004, 4:31:28 PM6/21/04
to
On 2004-06-21 12:07:10, "Erik Piper" <efrn...@sdky.cz> wrote:

> bork bork bork ShockFrost bork 12:25:05 AM bork 6/21/2004 bork bork:
>
> > > From this simple description, which is the first I've really heard
> > > of your game that I've been able to decipher, I really like what I
> > > see. If you could be so kind as to furnish me with a link to where
> > > I can find more information, this generator you speak of, maybe,
> > > and perhaps even the next version of the game when it is released,
> > > I should be very grateful.
> >
> > :o
> >
> > Someone asked nicely.

> > ñ_ñ


> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/shockfrost/
> >
> > It's there, waiting. It's not much to look at now.
>
> Comments:
> - The deep blue font used in the character generation screen is
> horrible to read.
> - The fact that you sometimes need to press Enter to confirm things,
> and sometimes not, and there's no indication of which is which, "feels"
> wrong to me.
> - I can't understand the point of gradually revealing more and more
> skills with each press of "reveal more skills." Are these skills less
> and less appropriate for the player with each new "revealing," or
> something?
>
> Still, it'll be great if there's that much detail and it all does
> something interesting.

I'm guessing that revealing more skills costs you less chance to develop the
current skills. Which is quite a nice way to implement choosing a balance
between broad or focused skills.

I also hope, ShockFrost, you don't forget about your medallion idea (unlocking
classes by finding tokens). That and the growing/changing cities are two
exciting features.

ShockFrost

unread,
Jun 21, 2004, 11:10:48 PM6/21/04
to
ABCGi <ab...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<cb7gj0$pfs$1...@news.vol.cz>...

> On 2004-06-21 12:07:10, "Erik Piper" <efrn...@sdky.cz> wrote:
>
> > bork bork bork ShockFrost bork 12:25:05 AM bork 6/21/2004 bork bork:
> >
> > > > From this simple description, which is the first I've really heard
> > > > of your game that I've been able to decipher, I really like what I
> > > > see. If you could be so kind as to furnish me with a link to where
> > > > I can find more information, this generator you speak of, maybe,
> > > > and perhaps even the next version of the game when it is released,
> > > > I should be very grateful.
>
> > > :o
> > >
> > > Someone asked nicely.
> > > ń_ń

> > >
> > > http://www.geocities.com/shockfrost/
> > >
> > > It's there, waiting. It's not much to look at now.
> >
> > Comments:
> > - The deep blue font used in the character generation screen is
> > horrible to read.
> > - The fact that you sometimes need to press Enter to confirm things,
> > and sometimes not, and there's no indication of which is which, "feels"
> > wrong to me.
> > - I can't understand the point of gradually revealing more and more
> > skills with each press of "reveal more skills." Are these skills less
> > and less appropriate for the player with each new "revealing," or
> > something?
> >
> > Still, it'll be great if there's that much detail and it all does
> > something interesting.
>
> I'm guessing that revealing more skills costs you less chance to develop the
> current skills. Which is quite a nice way to implement choosing a balance
> between broad or focused skills.
>
> I also hope, ShockFrost, you don't forget about your medallion idea (unlocking
> classes by finding tokens). That and the growing/changing cities are two
> exciting features.

Color fonts at that point were a debug feature and have been
normalized.
I may do something about the inconsistency of 'enter'. I may not.

Spending flexpoints to reveal skills gives your character some new
potential learnings. This lets you take characters in interesting new
directions. When you invest in these skills, they are much easier to
develop than trying to get them otherwise. Skills you actually have
are given a much lower development EXP 'cost' to pop to the next level
for quite some time. Not all skills appear with the same frequency.
For example, it is pretty likely you will discover Shield
proficiencies, Short Blades, or Chain Weapon skills. It is unlikely
you will unearth Spellcasting or Exotic Weapons. It is HIGHLY unlikely
you will discover Summoning, Necromancy, Runistry or Spellcrafting.

Playing another class will possibly give you some cemented starter
skills, and an entirely different frequency table. For example, it is
highly unlikely that a Wizard will discover the Blacksmithing skill,
but he has a fair chance to unearth casting skills like Chanting.

And the structure of the project is exactly same as before.

Jeff Lait

unread,
Jun 21, 2004, 11:25:22 PM6/21/04
to
ABCGi <ab...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<cb7gj0$pfs$1...@news.vol.cz>...
>
> I'm guessing that revealing more skills costs you less chance to develop the
> current skills. Which is quite a nice way to implement choosing a balance
> between broad or focused skills.

Except there is no way to unreveal skills if one decides the new
skills aren't worth it. This gives an inordinate advantage to those
who have the skill list memorized and know which skills they want.
The hapless newbie reveals everything unaware they would be crippling
their character.

(Guess who revealed everything? :>)



> I also hope, ShockFrost, you don't forget about your medallion idea (unlocking
> classes by finding tokens). That and the growing/changing cities are two
> exciting features.

I think the medallion idea is there, after all, you only get one class
to pick from.

I hope the lesson posted in the GBA version of the website is learned:
Less classes is better. Keep the medallion idea, but only have so
many classes as are significantly distinct.

Kornel Kisielewicz

unread,
Jun 22, 2004, 3:34:04 PM6/22/04
to
ShockFrost wrote:
>> You seem to be treating this group as though we are a bunch of
>> fanboys, instead of a group of equal developers sharing and helping
>> out. You should post on misc or something for fanboys.
>>
>> Your announcement would of been more professional, mature and less
>> time-wasting if it was something like;
>>
>> --EXAMPLE--
>
> Last time I was professional, I discovered three things -
>
> 1. Amy Wang responds to any large project that she can't grasp the ken
> of, with hate and discouragement. But she responds to idiocy with
> mostly disgusted ignorance. Hence, look like an incohesive idiot, and
> Amy leaves you alone.

Amy's not here anymore :(. Moreover you can killfile people you don't want
to read posts of. Last but not least -- A large project is a project that
has lots of KLOS ;), and not one that has huge ambitions ;).

> 2. The time you waste explaining the structure of your program, you
> could spend coding that program just as quickly.

The time you spend debugging your structure, you could spend on discussing
it and avoiding many pitfalls. You quickly get the invested time back.

> 3. People are going to think what they want to think... regardless of
> how businesslike, unprofessional, opinionated, or logical you are.

This one's just false ;). People *do* change opinions.

> Now you tell me which set of common options looks better to you
>
> DEVELOPER MAKES SHORT POSTS ABOUT IDEAS
> Option 1. Someone takes your idea out of context and criticizes.

Too bad. Either you can extract valuable feedback from it, and when you
don't have the nerves for such a complicated task, you can always ignore
such a post. Learn to ignore posts! :)

> Option 2. Someone tries to tell you a 'better way' to do what you're
> doing, often not fully grasping the outlaying structure you're using.

But often realy showing you a better way. The whole skill is differentiating
between those two.

> DEVELOPER MAKES LENGTHY POSTS ABOUT IDEAS
> Option 1. Developer is cracked. Ideas are nuts. The project will be a
> wash.

Killfile.

> Option 2. Developer has good ideas but will never form them into
> anything useful.

Reasons? More valuable posters will tell you reasons why they do think so.
They may be right, they may be wrong. In the end, it's your opinion that
counts.

> Option 3. Developer can code but no one will ever want to play the
> game because it won't be (fun, for the right audience, or X-Factor
> number 5)

This one's always false ;).

> Option 4. It soundz kool man yah 8-) Wheres the beta.?

Encouragement is the key.

> Option 5. I stand for everything you stand for and if you succeed you
> will be the hero of all and me.

Encouragement is the key.

> DEVELOPER POSTS RHETORICAL NONSENSE
> Option 1. Someone recognizes developer and says 'hello and good luck'.
> Option 2. Someone heckles developer, but without having any real
> targets they are reduced to generic, less painful insults.
> Option 3. Someone asks a question or begs for a beta.
>
> You will get these 3 options in irrational proportions. Your posts
> will be nearly completely inactive, excepting the types outlined
> above. Rather than explain your code, you code your code, which
> improves productivity considerably.
>
> Of the option sets, I chose #3.

So sad, #1 and #2 are the most importat here.

> If I run into development issues, I'll let you know. Otherwise, I'll
> continue 'raving madly in my study' to transmit encrypted progress
> messages to the watching community and ward off the Wang Demons.

Transmiting encrypted progress messages is a no-no. There are private forums
and mailing lists for that, and not the public newsgroup. If encrypted
progress messages are all you are going to post I advise you to start a
mailing list (see http://www.freelists.org (or smth)...

Still, except for a few inlines, this is the most reasonable and interesting
post of yours I've read ShockFrost. If you're going to represent such a
level further, I'm more then happy to engage in a reasonable and
constructive dialog.

regards and good luck with your game,
Kornel Kisielewicz


ShockFrost

unread,
Jun 22, 2004, 3:48:45 PM6/22/04
to
torespon...@hotmail.com (Jeff Lait) wrote in message news:<774acfb8.04062...@posting.google.com>...

???
*returns to the GBA documents and reads the lesson scrawled in red pen at the top:*

"Coding randomly generated gravity-based switch puzzles is very complicated."

R. Alan Monroe

unread,
Jun 22, 2004, 10:01:01 PM6/22/04
to

>> > - The fact that you sometimes need to press Enter to confirm things,
>> > and sometimes not, and there's no indication of which is which, "feels"
>> > wrong to me.

>I may do something about the inconsistency of 'enter'. I may not.

For what it's worth, I also noticed the Enter key thing. So here's
another vote for consistency.

Alan

Jeff Lait

unread,
Jun 22, 2004, 11:02:33 PM6/22/04
to
shock...@yahoo.com (ShockFrost) wrote in message news:<cd6e3975.04062...@posting.google.com>...

> torespon...@hotmail.com (Jeff Lait) wrote in message news:<774acfb8.04062...@posting.google.com>...
>
> > I hope the lesson posted in the GBA version of the website is learned:
> > Less classes is better. Keep the medallion idea, but only have so
> > many classes as are significantly distinct.
>
> ???
> *returns to the GBA documents and reads the lesson scrawled in red pen at the top:*
>
> "Coding randomly generated gravity-based switch puzzles is very complicated."

No. The lesson you learned when you *started* the project. Fewer
classes are better. Only add classes when a sufficient differentiator
exists.

The other lesson is an important one as well, though :>

SZDev - Slash

unread,
Jun 25, 2004, 11:18:56 AM6/25/04
to


"Kornel Kisielewicz" <charon...@magma-net.pl> escribió en el mensaje
news:cba199$jje$1...@inews.gazeta.pl...


> ShockFrost wrote:
> >> You seem to be treating this group as though we are a bunch of
> >> fanboys, instead of a group of equal developers sharing and helping
> >> out. You should post on misc or something for fanboys.
> >>
> >> Your announcement would of been more professional, mature and less
> >> time-wasting if it was something like;
> >>
> >> --EXAMPLE--
> >
> > Last time I was professional, I discovered three things -
> >
> > 1. Amy Wang responds to any large project that she can't grasp the ken
> > of, with hate and discouragement. But she responds to idiocy with
> > mostly disgusted ignorance. Hence, look like an incohesive idiot, and
> > Amy leaves you alone.
>
> Amy's not here anymore :(. Moreover you can killfile people you don't want
> to read posts of. Last but not least -- A large project is a project that
> has lots of KLOS ;), and not one that has huge ambitions ;).
>

Where did (she/he/it) go? I miss (her/him/it)...

...

>
> Still, except for a few inlines, this is the most reasonable and
interesting
> post of yours I've read ShockFrost. If you're going to represent such a
> level further, I'm more then happy to engage in a reasonable and
> constructive dialog.
>
> regards and good luck with your game,
> Kornel Kisielewicz
>
>

--

Kornel Kisielewicz

unread,
Jun 26, 2004, 8:16:44 PM6/26/04
to
SZDev - Slash wrote:
> "Kornel Kisielewicz" <charon...@magma-net.pl> escribió en el
> mensaje news:cba199$jje$1...@inews.gazeta.pl...
>> Amy's not here anymore :(. Moreover you can killfile people you
>> don't want to read posts of. Last but not least -- A large project
>> is a project that has lots of KLOS ;), and not one that has huge
>> ambitions ;).
>
> Where did (she/he/it) go? I miss (her/him/it)...

She (judging by the name). Yeah, I miss her too (seriously)...

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz


Amy Wang

unread,
Jul 12, 2004, 1:33:30 AM7/12/04
to
shock...@yahoo.com (ShockFrost) wrote in message
> Last time I was professional, I discovered three things -
>
> 1. Amy Wang responds to any large project that she can't grasp the ken
> of, with hate and discouragement. But she responds to idiocy with
> mostly disgusted ignorance. Hence, look like an incohesive idiot, and
> Amy leaves you alone.

Here's a hint: if you go around in real life muttering to yourself
like an idiot, MOST people will leave you alone.

>
> 2. The time you waste explaining the structure of your program, you
> could spend coding that program just as quickly.

Amen.

[snip]

> Now you tell me which set of common options looks better to you
>
> DEVELOPER MAKES SHORT POSTS ABOUT IDEAS
> Option 1. Someone takes your idea out of context and criticizes.
> Option 2. Someone tries to tell you a 'better way' to do what you're
> doing, often not fully grasping the outlaying structure you're using.
> Option 3. People will centralize on the concept, discarding everything
> else you've said.
> Option 4. You will get well-wishers, nay-sayers, and people will
> harass you for more details.

And guess which of those actually helps you finish your game? That's
right, none of them! That's why I rarely post here anymore, and I'm
confounded about why other people waste their time here.

> DEVELOPER MAKES LENGTHY POSTS ABOUT IDEAS

> DEVELOPER POSTS RHETORICAL NONSENSE

Same as above.

Gerry Quinn

unread,
Jul 12, 2004, 4:35:58 AM7/12/04
to
In article <62acd54d.04071...@posting.google.com>,
blueme...@hotmail.com says...

>
> And guess which of those actually helps you finish your game? That's
> right, none of them! That's why I rarely post here anymore, and I'm
> confounded about why other people waste their time here.

How's the 'group development' going?

- Gerry Quinn

Jeff Lait

unread,
Jul 12, 2004, 6:56:01 AM7/12/04
to
blueme...@hotmail.com (Amy Wang) wrote in message news:<62acd54d.04071...@posting.google.com>...

> shock...@yahoo.com (ShockFrost) wrote in message
>
> > Now you tell me which set of common options looks better to you
> >
> > DEVELOPER MAKES SHORT POSTS ABOUT IDEAS
> > Option 1. Someone takes your idea out of context and criticizes.
> > Option 2. Someone tries to tell you a 'better way' to do what you're
> > doing, often not fully grasping the outlaying structure you're using.
> > Option 3. People will centralize on the concept, discarding everything
> > else you've said.
> > Option 4. You will get well-wishers, nay-sayers, and people will
> > harass you for more details.
>
> And guess which of those actually helps you finish your game? That's
> right, none of them! That's why I rarely post here anymore, and I'm
> confounded about why other people waste their time here.

Out of curiousity, what ever did happen to that group roguelike
project? I haven't heard anything for a long time, and am wondering
if there is development going on in the background.

SZDev - Slash

unread,
Jul 12, 2004, 8:23:01 AM7/12/04
to
"Amy Wang" <blueme...@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:62acd54d.04071...@posting.google.com...

Wang's back!!!!

btw, how has gone the GDI????

SZDev - Slash

unread,
Jul 12, 2004, 8:24:54 AM7/12/04
to
"Amy Wang" <blueme...@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
news:62acd54d.04071...@posting.google.com...

I like to waste my time here, actually, this is the best place I have found
to do so!!!

*hands a potion of cure confusion*

> > DEVELOPER MAKES LENGTHY POSTS ABOUT IDEAS
> > DEVELOPER POSTS RHETORICAL NONSENSE
>
> Same as above.

--

Hansjoerg Malthaner

unread,
Jul 12, 2004, 8:30:53 AM7/12/04
to
SZDev - Slash schrieb:

> "Amy Wang" <blueme...@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje

>>And guess which of those actually helps you finish your game? That's


>>right, none of them! That's why I rarely post here anymore, and I'm
>>confounded about why other people waste their time here.
>
> I like to waste my time here, actually, this is the best place I have found
> to do so!!!

Lately we had higher ratio of noise, but in between there are very nice
articles. Just remember Bears "Roguelike AI" article series.

I agree it doesn't help imemdiately to finish your game. But it is great
knowledge for imrpoving a game.

I also appreciate the smalltalk about the different development
aproaches, rewrite vs. refactoring, how much design before starting to
code, use of IDEs, graphics vs. ASCII ... in this group you can leanr a
whole lot about human-computer-interfaces and program design/development
in general.

I still read all articles posted here.

> Santiago Zapata

c.u.
Hajo

Kornel Kisielewicz

unread,
Jul 12, 2004, 9:03:55 AM7/12/04
to
Jeff Lait wrote:
> blueme...@hotmail.com (Amy Wang) wrote in message
> news:<62acd54d.04071...@posting.google.com>...
>> shock...@yahoo.com (ShockFrost) wrote in message

>> And guess which of those actually helps you finish your game? That's


>> right, none of them! That's why I rarely post here anymore, and I'm
>> confounded about why other people waste their time here.
>
> Out of curiousity, what ever did happen to that group roguelike
> project? I haven't heard anything for a long time, and am wondering
> if there is development going on in the background.

I was trying to contact Amy on that, but she never replied... :(

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz


SZDev - Slash

unread,
Jul 13, 2004, 1:35:25 PM7/13/04
to
"Hansjoerg Malthaner" <hansjoerg...@nurfuerspam.de> escribió en el
mensaje news:2lfek2F...@uni-berlin.de...

> SZDev - Slash schrieb:
>
> > "Amy Wang" <blueme...@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
>
> >>And guess which of those actually helps you finish your game? That's
> >>right, none of them! That's why I rarely post here anymore, and I'm
> >>confounded about why other people waste their time here.
> >
> > I like to waste my time here, actually, this is the best place I have
found
> > to do so!!!
>
> Lately we had higher ratio of noise,
>

Well, no place is perfect ;)

> but in between there are very nice
> articles. Just remember Bears "Roguelike AI" article series.

By the by, I'm compiling a collection of Informal Articles (Posts) in the
group, I have gathered 30 texts and got to 9 Jul 2003. (from today). I plan
to post them after Im finished!!!

> I agree it doesn't help imemdiately to finish your game. But it is great
> knowledge for imrpoving a game.
>
> I also appreciate the smalltalk about the different development
> aproaches, rewrite vs. refactoring, how much design before starting to
> code, use of IDEs, graphics vs. ASCII ... in this group you can leanr a
> whole lot about human-computer-interfaces and program design/development
> in general.
>
> I still read all articles posted here.
>
> > Santiago Zapata
>
> c.u.
> Hajo


--
Santiago Zapata


Hansjoerg Malthaner

unread,
Jul 14, 2004, 3:19:10 AM7/14/04
to
SZDev - Slash schrieb:

> "Hansjoerg Malthaner" <hansjoerg...@nurfuerspam.de> escribió en el
> mensaje news:2lfek2F...@uni-berlin.de...

>>but in between there are very nice


>>articles. Just remember Bears "Roguelike AI" article series.
>
> By the by, I'm compiling a collection of Informal Articles (Posts) in the
> group, I have gathered 30 texts and got to 9 Jul 2003. (from today). I plan
> to post them after Im finished!!!

I once started a "library" of collected usenet articles:
http://library.simugraph.com/

But lately I didn't update it anymore, I had too much other things in my
head. I hope that some day I'll be able to build an online editing
interface, so that everyone can add new articles.

> Santiago Zapata

c.u.
Hajo

crichmon

unread,
Jul 20, 2004, 1:11:33 AM7/20/04
to
"Amy Wang" <blueme...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> shock...@yahoo.com (ShockFrost) wrote in message
>> Last time I was professional, I discovered three
>> things -
>>
>> 1. Amy Wang responds to any large project that she
>> can't grasp the ken of, with hate and discouragement.
>> But she responds to idiocy with mostly disgusted
>> ignorance. Hence, look like an incohesive idiot, and
>> Amy leaves you alone.
>
> Here's a hint: if you go around in real life muttering
> to yourself like an idiot, MOST people will leave you
> alone.

...


>> 2. The time you [waste/spend] explaining the structure


>> of your program, you could spend coding that program
>> just as quickly.
>
> Amen.

Granted...


> [snip]
>
>> Now you tell me which set of common options looks
>> better to you
>>
>> DEVELOPER MAKES SHORT POSTS ABOUT IDEAS
>> Option 1. Someone takes your idea out of context and
>> criticizes.
>> Option 2. Someone tries to tell you a 'better way' to
>> do what you're doing, often not fully grasping the
>> outlaying structure you're using.
>> Option 3. People will centralize on the concept,
>> discarding everything else you've said.
>> Option 4. You will get well-wishers, nay-sayers, and
>> people will harass you for more details.
>
> And guess which of those actually helps you finish your
> game? That's right, none of them! That's why I rarely
> post here anymore, and I'm confounded about why other
> people waste their time here.

There's a sense of community on r.g.r.dev which many of the posters find
useful as a source of extra knowledge and motivation to better their
individual projects. I personally have found a good portion of time spent
here as a positive.

Honestly, Ms. Wang, your "correspondance" is very suggestive of a suicide
bomber who doesn't pack enough explosives to do any real damage. This
includes the unfortunate side-effect of not resulting in any chance of
suicide... just a desire to find a bigger bomb to set off on everyone who
posts here.


crichmon

tired of the non-constructive, non-motivating, selfish condescending and
pointless violence... I'm going back to code in my cave and finish work on
some stupid troll ai for primitive...


R. Dan Henry

unread,
Jul 20, 2004, 1:45:21 AM7/20/04
to
On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 05:11:33 GMT, "crichmon" <crich...@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>tired of the non-constructive, non-motivating, selfish condescending and
>pointless violence... I'm going back to code in my cave and finish work on
>some stupid troll ai for primitive...

Troll AI? Well, then, Amy's been inspirationally helpful to you after
all!

Richard Daniel Henry
danh...@inreach.com

crichmon

unread,
Jul 20, 2004, 5:30:57 AM7/20/04
to

"R. Dan Henry" <danh...@inreach.com> wrote:
> "crichmon" <crich...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> tired of the non-constructive, non-motivating,
>> selfish condescending and pointless violence...
>> I'm going back to code in my cave and finish
>> work on some stupid troll ai for primitive...
>
> Troll AI? Well, then, Amy's been inspirationally
> helpful to you after all!

perhaps.

I feel sick to my stomach. I completely over-reacted in that last email and
I'm ashamed that I wrote it. I didn't mean to imply that anyone should do
any phyiscal harm to themselves, it was just a metaphor taken too far.
Apart from that, the message was rather cruel, and I apologize.

crichmon


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