[release] LambdaRogue v0.3 (gamma 1)
Mario Donick
been released.
Website, blog and binary downloads are provided here:
http://donick.net/lr/dl-showentry.php?n=4
Source code and older releases can be found on LambdaRogue's SourceForge
page:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/lambdarogue
To make this posting short, I will only name the most important changes:
- a new main quest, containing 4 subquests
- 11 sidequests (not necessary to win)
- completely re-edited items, spells and monsters
- improved dungeon generation with themed levels
- new possibilities to interact with altars, crypts and wells
- improved user interface
- better graphics in SDL mode
- lots of bug fixes
As this is still a 0.x release, expect bugs. I testet the game several
times on Linux and Windows, both in SDL and in console mode, but it's
unlikely that it's bug free.
(There will also be a small update to the data files soon, available as
patch from the LR blog, but that's nothing critical; just some text
files that most people won't read anyhow.)
Mario Donick
Krice
> - improved user interface
Wonder how it was before. It took me a while to find out that
'n' open doors. Nopen. I think weird things began to happen
right from the start, when Backspace deletes the entire name.
What could be the purpose of that? You write a wrong name and
want to delete that quickly and it's mapped in Backspace which
universally deletes one letter in all possible other programs
in this universe.
Of course to make the gaming experience perfect I was killed
by a rat, the first monster I was fighting. I was unable to
hit it. Wow, that was a tough one!
Still it seems to be pretty smooth and when you -really- fix
the user interface it might be interesting one.
> - better graphics in SDL mode
Graphics are ok, but tiles are small, hard to see in big
resolution.
Mario Donick
> On 6 touko, 22:37, Mario Donick <mario.don...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> - improved user interface
>
> Wonder how it was before. It took me a while to find out that
> 'n' open doors.
ENTER is the main key for performing different actions:
- open doors
- loot chests
- drink from wells
- examine crypts
- use staircases
"n" is just a different possibility.
Besides, you're free to remap the keys. The default config file is
optimized for notebooks without numpad - so 789uiojkl emulate a numpad
and "n" the numpad "enter".
> When Backspace deletes the entire name.
> What could be the purpose of that?
That's indeed something where I thought long about, because I know of
course that backspace just deletes one char in every other program.
Perhaps I will change this, but I also need a key for deleting the
entire line.
> Of course to make the gaming experience perfect I was killed
> by a rat, the first monster I was fighting. I was unable to
> hit it. Wow, that was a tough one!
Who says that fighting every monster right after starting is the way to
win? Had you a weapon? Armour? Did you use Aspirin (in your inventory by
default) to heal yourself?
I tested the whole game with a thief-character, believing in Hermes, and
so with very low values in fighting - I wanted to see if also weak
characters can win the game. They can. They just require care and caution.
> Still it seems to be pretty smooth and when you -really- fix
> the user interface it might be interesting one.
Thanks. :) Are there other things on the UI that you like to have
improved? I discussed this topic already in 2006, but it's never enough ;)
> Graphics are ok, but tiles are small, hard to see in big
> resolution.
That's true, but I doubt this will change soon. Besides, is the
brightness okay?
Mario Donick
Krice
> ENTER is the main key for performing different actions:
That's even worse.
> The default config file is optimized for notebooks
Why? Do you think that most people own a notebook?
> but I also need a key for deleting the entire line.
You need that? Did you wrote Ass when you meant to write Jack?
> Had you a weapon? Armour?
It's a rat. I guess the player character has no training for bare hand
fighting so he just sits there when rat bites him to death.
> Are there other things on the UI that you like to have improved?
I don't know yet. I just quickly tried to play that unplayable game.
> Besides, is the brightness okay?
It's changing between dark tiles and bright text. It's a mess:)
Mario Donick
> Mario Donick kirjoitti:
>
> > ENTER is the main key for performing different actions:
>
> That's even worse.
Why? Because it's not standard in roguelikes and every action requires
a different key?
> > The default config file is optimized for notebooks
>
> Why? Do you think that most people own a notebook?
No. But I do.
> > but I also need a key for deleting the entire line.
>
> You need that? Did you wrote Ass when you meant to write Jack?
Not ass, but yes, in general one might need several minutes and
attempts to decide for a charactername. At least me.
>
> > Had you a weapon? Armour?
>
> It's a rat. I guess the player character has no training for bare hand
> fighting so he just sits there when rat bites him to death.
Go playing Morrowind and try to kill a rat without weapon. You'll die.
So, nothing unusual. And yes, if your fight skill is extremly bad, 3
or 4 and below, you won't have a real chance. If your fight skill is
well developed, you can kill many enemies without a weapon.
> > Are there other things on the UI that you like to have improved?
>
> I don't know yet. I just quickly tried to play that unplayable game.
It's not unplayable. I'm interested: How is your general playing
style: Rush to enemies and slaugther them?
> > Besides, is the brightness okay?
>
> It's changing between dark tiles and bright text. It's a mess:)
Do you use an LCD screen?
Krice
> Why? Because it's not standard in roguelikes
Yes. I think 'u'se is better if you need one key for actions.
> > Why? Do you think that most people own a notebook?
> No. But I do.
It's like you never want your game to become popular.
> Not ass, but yes, in general one might need several minutes and
> attempts to decide for a charactername. At least me.
What that has to do with Backspace deleting the line? You scare me.
> Go playing Morrowind and try to kill a rat without weapon.
I don't play games that suck.
> How is your general playing
> style: Rush to enemies and slaugther them?
Yes. Probably the reason I die fast in all roguelikes:)
> Do you use an LCD screen?
Yes, but that has nothing to do with the problem of using too dark or
too
bright graphics. It's not rocket science. You can look at the RGB
values
of the colors you have and check if they are too dark or bright.
Terje
> Mario Donick kirjoitti:
>
> > Why? Because it's not standard in roguelikes
>
> Yes. I think 'u'se is better if you need one key for actions.
>
Enter is certainly easier to hit than u. Even more so when playing on
a desktop PC using the numpad - it's right there under my pinky.
> > > Why? Do you think that most people own a notebook?
> > No. But I do.
>
> It's like you never want your game to become popular.
>
Popularity is only one measure of success. If someone is chiefly
writing games for them to be popular, I don't think writing roguelikes
is the way to go. The potential market is rather small compared to
other game genres.
> > Not ass, but yes, in general one might need several minutes and
> > attempts to decide for a charactername. At least me.
>
> What that has to do with Backspace deleting the line? You scare me.
>
Why this focus on the character generation screen, Krice? If you'd
bothered trying to learn how to play the game instead of giving up
after your first death, this feature would not seem such a large part
of the game and I suspect you'd have ignored it.
> > Go playing Morrowind and try to kill a rat without weapon.
>
> I don't play games that suck.
>
Then how do you know they suck? For that matter, how can you tell a
game doesn't suck based on playing it for 2 minutes?
> > How is your general playing
> > style: Rush to enemies and slaugther them?
>
> Yes. Probably the reason I die fast in all roguelikes:)
>
Then dying fast in this one shouldn't come as a surprise.
> > Do you use an LCD screen?
>
> Yes, but that has nothing to do with the problem of using too dark or
> too
> bright graphics. It's not rocket science. You can look at the RGB
> values
> of the colors you have and check if they are too dark or bright.
I think the colors are fine.
Mario Donick
> I think 'u'se is better if you need one key for actions.
In general you are right. If I wouldn't use "u" for replacement for
numpad-4 I'd do it.
> It's like you never want your game to become popular.
There are more people who play the game and tell me about it than I
thought. Although they often have points to remark, they are also
friendly and open-minded concerning LambdaRogue. Even you were so in
your first posting ;)
> What that has to do with Backspace deleting the line? You scare me.
Backspace is a big key, easy to hit. Standard procedure would be to
press SHIFT + HOME to mark the whole line, then press DEL or
BACKSPACE.
> > How is your general playing
> > style: Rush to enemies and slaugther them?
>
> Yes. Probably the reason I die fast in all roguelikes:)
Well, then I do not wonder. If your playing style is devoted to quick
fights, you should play a soldier character with good fighting skills.
You can't expect to be a thief, enchanter or ranger and fight against
everything easily - without weapon.
> > Do you use an LCD screen?
>
> Yes, but that has nothing to do with the problem of using too dark or
> too bright graphics. It's not rocket science. You can look at the RGB
> values of the colors you have and check if they are too dark or bright.
Unfortunately, the same RGB values look bright at my screen, too dark
at my screen at work, a little dark at my CRT monitor ... That's why
you can select a brighter variant of the tileset ingame.
Mario Donick
zai...@zaimoni.com
> Krice schrieb:
>
> > On 6 touko, 22:37, Mario Donick <mario.don...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> - improved user interface
>
> > Wonder how it was before. It took me a while to find out that
> > 'n' open doors.
>
> ENTER is the main key for performing different actions:
>
>
> Besides, you're free to remap the keys. The default config file is
> optimized for notebooks without numpad - so 789uiojkl emulate a numpad
> and "n" the numpad "enter".
But what proportion of notebooks without numpad do *not* provide this
emulation anyway? [I don't know offhand; I'm curious as to why
explicitly coding it is practical.]
> > When Backspace deletes the entire name.
> > What could be the purpose of that?
>
> That's indeed something where I thought long about, because I know of
> course that backspace just deletes one char in every other program.
> Perhaps I will change this, but I also need a key for deleting the
> entire line.
Any of SHIFT-backspace, CTRL-backspace, or ALT-backspace would be
reasonable without flouting what every other program does. [This is
also the problem with ENTER as the use key, period.]
The question is which ones of the above are actually seen by the
program.
Mario Donick
>> Besides, you're free to remap the keys. The default config file is
>> optimized for notebooks without numpad - so 789uiojkl emulate a numpad
>> and "n" the numpad "enter".
>
> But what proportion of notebooks without numpad do *not* provide this
> emulation anyway? [I don't know offhand; I'm curious as to why
> explicitly coding it is practical.]
The standard emulation of numpad on Notebooks is that you have to press
a key called "Fn" if you want to access the emulated keys. If you don't
press "Fn", you access the standard keys. If you enable NumLock, you can
access the emulated numpad without pressing "Fn" - but you won't be able
to use the standard keys (including "u") then.
So regardless which way of standard numpad emulation you go, you have to
press an additional key very often - either by using "Fn" or by
continous switching between NumLock on and NumLock off.
And NO, Vi-Keys are no alternative for me.
> Any of SHIFT-backspace, CTRL-backspace, or ALT-backspace would be
> reasonable without flouting what every other program does.
When I press SHIFT-backspace, CTRL-backspace and ALT-backspace in my
text editor, it always deletes only one char. So it _would_ behave in
another way than other programs.
> [This is also the problem with ENTER as the use key, period.]
Why? Enter is far better to reach than any other key, perhaps except the
SPACE key. If you use a real numpad, you don't even need to move your
hands off the numpad to play the whole game.
<frustration on>
This whole discussion took already place nearly two years ago. Sometimes
I have the feeling that some people tend to refuse any unusual concepts
just because they're unusual. Just to think a little about the ideas
behind the concepts and perhaps see that they may make sense seems
impossible - it is bad because it's non-standard, "period".
Where is the problem to adapt to a new concept? Especially when it's so
simple that it consists of "forget about keys, just press Enter". I
could see the point of your nitpicking if I would force you to use a
totally complicated system, but instead it's one of the easiest way to
handle a roguelike - except mouse control, perhaps.
If I could, I would program LambdaRogue to use a console-style
controller (in fact, this shouldn't be so hard at all).
Of course, if you LIKE to memorize keys you will always criticize ANY
approach which works with as less keys as possible.
However, I'm already underway to replace other keys with ENTER, too,
e.g. the [t]alk key and the [g]et key. I just need a way to assure that
multiple possibilities of meaning in a situation can be handled well.
</frustration off>
Mario Donick
> Enter is certainly easier to hit than u. Even more so when playing on
> a desktop PC using the numpad - it's right there under my pinky.
Yeah, finally someone who did get the concept. :-)
>>> Do you use an LCD screen?
>> Yes, but that has nothing to do with the problem of using too dark or
>> too
>> bright graphics. It's not rocket science. You can look at the RGB
>> values
>> of the colors you have and check if they are too dark or bright.
>
> I think the colors are fine.
Thanks for this information. The colors are indeed a problem, because
every screen is different. While the area in the field of view is
visible mostly, the fog of war is rather problematic in 0.3. For
0.3.0.1, I have adjusted the brightness of the second (the brighter)
tileset to be really bright, so everybody should be able to see everything.
(No, internal gamma control is not an option at the moment; I just
removed it for 0.3, because the SDL gamma functions always affect the
WHOLE screen.)
Mario
Pfhoenix
Brightness of display is a well known problem when dealing with CRTs
and LCDs. The common solution is to provide an adjustable gamma
setting that the program uses while running, and when it quits, it
resets the global gamma back to what it was when the program started.
- Pfhoenix
http://adeo.pfhoenix.com
Mario Donick
>> (No, internal gamma control is not an option at the moment; I just
>> removed it for 0.3, because the SDL gamma functions always affect the
>> WHOLE screen.)
>>
>> Mario
>
> Brightness of display is a well known problem when dealing with CRTs
> and LCDs. The common solution is to provide an adjustable gamma
> setting that the program uses while running, and when it quits, it
> resets the global gamma back to what it was when the program started.
I believe this is exactly what I did until 0.3. The game was started,
changed the gamma setting (but of the whole desktop, incl. all other
programs one might run at the same time), after quitting the game, the
original gamma setting was restored.
But this has been criticized some days ago in this newsgroup, so I
removed it.
Mario
Paul Donnelly
> zai...@zaimoni.com schrieb:
>>> Besides, you're free to remap the keys. The default config file is
>>> optimized for notebooks without numpad - so 789uiojkl emulate a numpad
>>> and "n" the numpad "enter".
>>
>> But what proportion of notebooks without numpad do *not* provide this
>> emulation anyway? [I don't know offhand; I'm curious as to why
>> explicitly coding it is practical.]
>
> The standard emulation of numpad on Notebooks is that you have to
> press a key called "Fn" if you want to access the emulated keys. If
> you don't press "Fn", you access the standard keys. If you enable
> NumLock, you can access the emulated numpad without pressing "Fn" -
> but you won't be able to use the standard keys (including "u") then.
>
> So regardless which way of standard numpad emulation you go, you have
> to press an additional key very often - either by using "Fn" or by
> continous switching between NumLock on and NumLock off.
Yeah, this is awful. And it's even worse when you want to type in
another program for a momement and you have to hit your Fn-F11 or
whatever to toggle numpad emulation again.
>> Any of SHIFT-backspace, CTRL-backspace, or ALT-backspace would be
>> reasonable without flouting what every other program does.
>
> When I press SHIFT-backspace, CTRL-backspace and ALT-backspace in my
> text editor, it always deletes only one char.
That sounds like a bug in your text editor. I would expect ctrl-bksp and
alt-bksp to delete whole words and be upset when they did not. How do
you delete words?
Mario Donick
>>> Any of SHIFT-backspace, CTRL-backspace, or ALT-backspace would be
>>> reasonable without flouting what every other program does.
>> When I press SHIFT-backspace, CTRL-backspace and ALT-backspace in my
>> text editor, it always deletes only one char.
>
> That sounds like a bug in your text editor. I would expect ctrl-bksp and
> alt-bksp to delete whole words and be upset when they did not. How do
> you delete words?
Ah, CTRL-BKSP deletes the word. Okay. SHIFT-BKSP one char and ALT-BKSP
does nothing at all.
Krice
> friendly and open-minded concerning LambdaRogue. Even you were so in
> your first posting ;)
I'm going to be in bad mood for a while I guess (more than
normally). But you know I also want to improve roguelikes by
giving correct advices to developers:)
> Backspace is a big key, easy to hit.
Not a good explanation.
> You can't expect to be a thief, enchanter or ranger and fight against
> everything easily - without weapon.
Of course I can expect to kill a rat!
> Unfortunately, the same RGB values look bright at my screen, too dark
> at my screen at work, a little dark at my CRT monitor
RGB values are easy: 0 is dark, 255 is white (bright). If RGB
values are under 128 or let's say 64 then it's going to look
dark. Of course sometimes you want some things to be totally
dark or bright, but you should think in terms of RGB values
when you design graphics - not what you see in your monitor!
Some dorks have all set in 100% in their monitors and then they
wonder why they need glasses in few years after using computers:)
Or why their "dark blue text on black background" websites get
negative feedback about the text color:)
Krice
> Enter is certainly easier to hit than u.
Maybe but it's not used in games. I don't know why but that's
how it is. Maybe because it's too commonly used in one
particular purpose and could cause some unwanted quick hits
in the gameplay.
> The potential market is rather small compared to
> other game genres.
I think this is just plain wrong. It's possible to make a
human friendly roguelike and get more people to play and
enjoy it. And it's possible without compromising the contents
of the game! Just wait.. well, don't wait, but see when I'm
going to prove that with Kaduria.
> Why this focus on the character generation screen, Krice?
You need to focus on everything! I really hate those strange
character creations which take ages and force you to select
some obscure skills and stuff. How the heck I know what
they are?
zai...@zaimoni.com
> Pfhoenix schrieb:
>
> >> (No, internal gamma control is not an option at the moment; I just
> >> removed it for 0.3, because the SDL gamma functions always affect the
> >> WHOLE screen.)
>
> >> Mario
>
> > Brightness of display is a well known problem when dealing with CRTs
> > and LCDs. The common solution is to provide an adjustable gamma
> > setting that the program uses while running, and when it quits, it
> > resets the global gamma back to what it was when the program started.
>
> I believe this is exactly what I did until 0.3. The game was started,
> changed the gamma setting (but of the whole desktop, incl. all other
> programs one might run at the same time), after quitting the game, the
> original gamma setting was restored.
I'd gamma-correct the images on the fly in the program. Pixel-wise,
it's not that difficult at all with floating-point math, and you only
have to do it when the internal gamma setting changes. In C:
* convert 0..255 integer to 0..1 float (or higher precision, if it
matters for technical reasons)
* take the gamma-factor root of that float (raise to 1/gamma factor
power). Obviously doesn't work for gamma factor 0. 0 and 1 are fixed
points, so black stays black and white stays white.
* convert the result back to 0..255 integer range, rounding to the
nearest integer.
Brog
> On 7 touko, 15:19, Mario Donick <mario.don...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > You can't expect to be a thief, enchanter or ranger and fight against
> > everything easily - without weapon.
>
> Of course I can expect to kill a rat!
>
Can you really?
In real life, if you found yourself in a cave with a rat, could you
kill it? Probably you wouldn't even hit it, and it would scurry away
into some nook where you can't reach.
And that's just real-life rats. Rats in games are generally "giant
rats", which might be as big as a lion and spread fatal diseases with
a single bite.
On May 7, 3:28 pm, Mario Donick <mario.don...@gmail.com> wrote:
> zaim...@zaimoni.com schrieb:
>
> > But what proportion of notebooks without numpad do *not* provide this
> > emulation anyway? [I don't know offhand; I'm curious as to why
> > explicitly coding it is practical.]
>
> The standard emulation of numpad on Notebooks is that you have to press
> a key called "Fn" if you want to access the emulated keys. If you don't
> press "Fn", you access the standard keys. If you enable NumLock, you can
> access the emulated numpad without pressing "Fn" - but you won't be able
> to use the standard keys (including "u") then.
>
> So regardless which way of standard numpad emulation you go, you have to
> press an additional key very often - either by using "Fn" or by
> continous switching between NumLock on and NumLock off.
>
> And NO, Vi-Keys are no alternative for me.
Yeah, notebook keyboards are basically horrible in every possible
way. Best thing to do is get a nice usb keyboard.
Pfhoenix
> In real life, if you found yourself in a cave with a rat, could you
> kill it? Probably you wouldn't even hit it, and it would scurry away
> into some nook where you can't reach.
> And that's just real-life rats. Rats in games are generally "giant
> rats", which might be as big as a lion and spread fatal diseases with
> a single bite.
You really, really, *REALLY* don't want to start arguing that. The
issue of realism versus fun is a topic that separates the really
shitty games from the great games. Nobody wants to play a game that
isn't fun *to them*, and very clearly getting killed by the very first
monster, a pathetic rat in this case, ranks really high on the "not
fun" list, regardless of how the designer intended the player to play.
It's a hallmark of good game design for the game to be well prepared
in anticipation of player stupidity. It says more about the game than
the player if players give up in the first few minutes.
- Pfhoenix
http://adeo.pfhoenix.com
Christopher Evenstar
Glad to see work on this again. So, I'm in the first room. There
are two women in the room with me. I can't figure out how to talk or
look at them. I tried 't' and '1'. Are these implemented. So, I'll
go explore the wilderness for a while.
My kids were really excited to play this, but they couldn't figure
out the keypad. (They're pretty young, so they kept getting stuck in
the mountains, couldn't figure out the diagonal scheme.) Glad to hear
I can remap the keys. (I like roguelike. Your scheme looks pretty
good to me though if we take the time to get used to it. )
Thanks for the work.
CStar
Paul Donnelly
> Nobody wants to play a game that isn't fun *to them*, and very clearly
> getting killed by the very first monster, a pathetic rat in this case,
> ranks really high on the "not fun" list, regardless of how the
> designer intended the player to play. It's a hallmark of good game
> design for the game to be well prepared in anticipation of player
> stupidity. It says more about the game than the player if players give
> up in the first few minutes.
But in a Roguelike learning what's stupid and what's smart is the whole
point of the game. Getting killed by the first monster may not rank high
on Krice's "fun" list, but I doubt most players would blink at it. If
you don't have fun learning through experience, you shouldn't play
games, because that's what they are about.
Mario Donick
> isn't fun *to them*, and very clearly getting killed by the very first
> monster, a pathetic rat in this case, ranks really high on the "not
> fun" list, regardless of how the designer intended the player to play.
So, you say that in, e.g. Morrowind, on of the most praised RPGs ever,
where I was killed by the very first monster I met (also a rat, also one
of the easiest enemies) it was bad game design and not perhaps my wrong
approach on the game? I wanted to kill the rat with a axe, but I only
had god skills with another weapon class, so it was clearly my fault. It
took me hours to see this, and the game was not "well prepared" for my
studipity. I had to read the manual too see my fault. But is Morrowind
just because of this bad game design?
(I don't want to compare my game with Morrowind, and I don't want to
emphasize Morrowind. Just show this similarity that is true for nearly
every game. If I don't understand the battle system of a RPG, I won't be
successful in it. If I am too lazy to read the manual in Sim City, I'll
never get a city run. And so on ...)
Krice had any chance to SURVIVE the rat - it just seems he had not taken
it. What is the logical reaction if one recognizes an enemy can't be
beaten? Run away, come back with better equipment. And at least use
possibilities to heal. If one gets healing items for free and does not
use them when HP is low, it's not my fault. (It _would_ be my fault if
it was not clear how to open the inventory (pressing [i]) and how to
consume the healing item.
So, what should I do in the case of the rat?
- rename the "rat" to "giant rat", so that it's totally clear that it's
not just a small little cute thing?
- set the "rat"s values to incredibly low so that everyone, including
characters with ZERO (and even below) fight still succeed?
- prevent the player to generate characters with such a low fight value?
- tell the player "You are too weak to kill this enemy. You should
better get a weapon"?
- give the player always a weapon at the beginning, even if MOST
characters won't need one, because MOST characters can kill rats without
weapons?
- what else?
I really want an answer to this question.
Mario
Mario Donick
> Glad to see work on this again. So, I'm in the first room. There
> are two women in the room with me. I can't figure out how to talk or
> look at them. I tried 't' and '1'. Are these implemented.
Ah. Okay. That's a good point. If think you refer to these moving "0".
At the moment, you can't talk to them, because they're just "monsters"
who don't attack by themselves. I added these to make the city a little
bit less "frozen", but perhaps that's no good idea. At the moment, you
can talk to the colored numbers 1 till 7 (1: food store; 2: weapon
store; 3: armor store; 4: magic store; 5: academy; 6: restaurant; 7:
resource workshop) and to the white number 1 till 9 (these are all NPCs
who often (not always) give you quests).
Talking to them requires to move the character ON them. In LambdaRogue,
this is called "in front of ...". Standing "next to" them won't work.
(Perhaps this is again something that everybody here calls bad design, I
don't know.)
> My kids were really excited to play this, but they couldn't figure
> out the keypad.
If you have a numpad, just use this. It provides the standard movement
keys used in many games: 8 is north, 2 is south, 4 is west, 6 is right.
These directions can also be accessed via the cursor keys. To move
diagonally via NumPad, press 7 to go northwest, 9 to go northeast, 1 to
go southwest and 3 to go southeast.
> Thanks for the work.
Thanks for the thanks :)
Mario
stu
> So, what should I do in the case of the rat?
>
> - rename the "rat" to "giant rat", so that it's totally clear that it's
> not just a small little cute thing?
makes the most sense to me :)
> - set the "rat"s values to incredibly low so that everyone, including
> characters with ZERO (and even below) fight still succeed?
at this point, its worthless so should be removed from the game.
> - prevent the player to generate characters with such a low fight value?
> - tell the player "You are too weak to kill this enemy. You should
> better get a weapon"?
> - give the player always a weapon at the beginning, even if MOST
> characters won't need one, because MOST characters can kill rats without
> weapons?
> - what else?
I sense frustration young jedi. It is the darkside Krice wishes you
to take.
-stu
Paul Donnelly
> So, what should I do in the case of the rat?
>
> - rename the "rat" to "giant rat", so that it's totally clear that
> it's not just a small little cute thing?
> - set the "rat"s values to incredibly low so that everyone, including
> characters with ZERO (and even below) fight still succeed?
> - prevent the player to generate characters with such a low fight value?
> - tell the player "You are too weak to kill this enemy. You should
> better get a weapon"?
From these options, this would be my choice. A little hand-holding for
the first couple of encounters could be helpful.
But I don't think it's necessarily a problem. I played it a little, and
it seems like you'd have to really be trying to get killed by a rat,
since escape is pretty easy.
On other topics, the default tiles are really dark on my screen. Really
small too. And the keys are kind of confusing. I can't figure out why
some things (like picking up an item) won't respond to the enter key,
and why you must walk on top of shopkeepers to talk to them. It was also
pretty strange how I was a little man and the map was made up of
graphical tiles, but all the townspeople and monsters were numbers and
letters.
I haven't played it enough yet to say anything less superficial.
Mario Donick
> On other topics, the default tiles are really dark on my screen.
The alternate tileset (switching between tilesets by pressing 2 on the
alphanumerical keyboard) should be brighter. Unfortunately, a bug in 0.3
causes the fog of war to be drawn always using the darker default
tileset. The update 0.3.0.1 (gamma 1) will have this bug fixed and bring
an even brighter alternate tileset.
> Really small too.
This won't change in the near future. Perhaps in 0.4, but this is far
far in the future.
> some things (like picking up an item) won't respond to the enter key,
In another post I already mentioned this; I want to make the enter key
also the default key for picking up items. This I will try to implement
for 0.3.1 (gamma 2).
> and why you must walk on top of shopkeepers to talk to them.
This is because of my definition of "in front of" and "next to":
This is next to a shopkeeper:
@1
This is in front of the shopkeeper:
@
(so, the "on top of", as you'd call it)
I will probably change this behavior in 0.3.1, so that you can stand
"next to a shopkeeper", press Enter (instead of t) and so talk to him.
> It was also pretty strange how I was a little man and the map was made up of
> graphical tiles, but all the townspeople and monsters were numbers and
> letters.
Yeah. Partly it's because I would have to choose or draw fitting tiles
for every monster, and this would make me not so flexible in changing
monster values so quickly.
But the main reason is that I like the surreal appeal very much. Perhaps
I will even change the little man to an @ so that only landscape is
graphical while everything that moves is a character.
> I haven't played it enough yet to say anything less superficial.
Perhaps some day one will say something to the content of the game ...
the quests perhaps or anything like this.
Thanks for your input.
Mario
Michal Bielinski
> On May 6, 11:37 am, Mario Donick <mario.don...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Finally it's done, the next milestone in LambdaRogue development has
>> been released.
I tried the game too.
> Glad to see work on this again. So, I'm in the first room. There
> are two women in the room with me. I can't figure out how to talk or
> look at them. I tried 't' and '1'. Are these implemented. So, I'll
> go explore the wilderness for a while.
Surely they are implemented. 't' works only if you are standing over a
trader (colored digit). '1' describes only a tile. Items and npc are
ignored. May I ask that at least message "there is an item" is displayed?
I wondered for quite a while what type of terrain brown '?' was. It fit
color wise with terrain well so I forgot it might be some kind of scroll.
The only complaint about well generated wilderness is there are not enough
pikes to hunt.
More about keys: enter waits for two keypresses. First is ignored and only
second matters. My decision was to use 'n' until it's fixed. Enter key
under Unix generates just one characted but you surely know that and forgot
to take care of this in code.
Console display is slightly bugged. Sometimes it displays text in topmost
row where hitpoints are. For example when exiting workshop. Blood
overwrites important terrain like lava. This resulted in some unpleasant
surprises to one of my characters. Moreover, in my humble opinion "mud
or sand" sounds silly and out of theme. Why not split that into two
different tiles? After all you have implemented der Grass already. :-)
I could not finish fetch item quests. How to deliver item to a npc? Dropping
is disabled in square and simply talking with item in inventory doesn't
work. Otherwise I found quest to be good and fun to complete once. Next
time they are guaranteed to be boring. Pity roguelikes are very bad games
for implementing static quests because you write interesting texts.
Buying health insurance doesn't make treatment free.
Overall fun game. I found some targets and mashed them. Toyed around with
disassembling items. Discovered that arrows are made of metal. Weird.
Selling seems always to grant 1-3 credits, no matter how much is sold in
single transaction. Selling negative quantities of resources works too. :-)
My last character was trapped in a dungeon without exit unless you have
implemented secret doors. He fell through a trapdoor to lower dungeon level.
Visiting pub there caused weird strings to show instead of dish names.
Lastly, a feture request. Could you implement some message saying that a
monster has been killed? Or maybe it is done, but after kill message box
gets cleared at once. And oh, hatchet in description is "hatched".
--
Michal Bielinski
Martin Read
>Talking to them requires to move the character ON them. In LambdaRogue,
>this is called "in front of ...". Standing "next to" them won't work.
>(Perhaps this is again something that everybody here calls bad design, I
>don't know.)
It would certainly violate the principle of least astonishment for me;
every tile-world game I can quickly think of that represents people you
can talk to in the same basic way as monsters has you stand in an
adjacent square (or sometimes across the countertop from them e.g.
merchants in Ultima) to converse.
(N.B. I haven't tried LR yet.)
--
\_\/_/ some girls wander by mistake into the mess that scalpels make
\ / are you the teachers of my heart? we teach old hearts to break
\/ --- Leonard Cohen, "Teachers"
Paul Donnelly
> Paul Donnelly schrieb:
>
>> On other topics, the default tiles are really dark on my screen.
>
> The alternate tileset (switching between tilesets by pressing 2 on the
> alphanumerical keyboard) should be brighter. Unfortunately, a bug in
> 0.3 causes the fog of war to be drawn always using the darker default
> tileset. The update 0.3.0.1 (gamma 1) will have this bug fixed and
> bring an even brighter alternate tileset.
Yes, the alternate set was much better. Good to know about the fog.
Mario Donick
about weird things :-D
> May I ask that at least message "there is an item" is displayed?
Will do so.
> The only complaint about well generated wilderness is there are not enough
> pikes to hunt.
One has just to wait for a while (kill some other guys or go down to
second lvl and go back up immediatly), then pikes will respawn soon.
> More about keys: enter waits for two keypresses. First is ignored and only
> second matters.
Really? Strange. In which cases? In [press ENTER to contine] messages?
In general game (e.g. for open doors)? Could you clarify if you use
Windows or Linux, and which Linux? If you self-compiled the source,
could tell me which version of FreePascal you used (the one which ships,
for example, with Ubuntu does not work very well, because it produces
strange interface bugs; the one from freepascal.org is better).
> Console display is slightly bugged. Sometimes it displays text in topmost
> row where hitpoints are. For example when exiting workshop.
Oh.
> Blood overwrites important terrain like lava. This resulted in some unpleasant
> surprises to one of my characters.
I will consider to change this, but since 0.3, where blood is smaller
and transparent, the floor tile beneath the blood should be visible. O.o
> Moreover, in my humble opinion "mud or sand" sounds silly and out of theme.
> Why not split that into two different tiles?
Yeah. Perhaps.
> I could not finish fetch item quests. How to deliver item to a npc? Dropping
> is disabled in square and simply talking with item in inventory doesn't
> work.
The second option (item in inventory) should work. Could you tell me
which quest you talk about? Perhaps I made a typo in data files, so the
item is not recognized by the quest engine (item names must be
identical, if I e.g. wrote "package of card" but the NPC wants a
"package of cardS" it won't work).
> Otherwise I found quest to be good and fun to complete once. Next
> time they are guaranteed to be boring.
That's why they're mostly optional.
> because you write interesting texts.
Thank you.
> Buying health insurance doesn't make treatment free.
Perhaps another typo. Will check this.
> Overall fun game. I found some targets and mashed them. Toyed around with
> disassembling items. Discovered that arrows are made of metal. Weird.
Why not? The <- (the thing which stabs into you when you're hit; but
at the moment I don't know the english word for "Pfeilspitze" and am too
lazy too look it up) is made of metal in many kinds of arrows.
> Selling seems always to grant 1-3 credits, no matter how much is sold in
> single transaction.
Seems that I forgot to multiply the price with the number of items sold
O.o Will be investigated.
> Selling negative quantities of resources works too. :-)
Oh. Will be fixed, too.
> My last character was trapped in a dungeon without exit unless you have
> implemented secret doors. He fell through a trapdoor to lower dungeon level.
Dungeons without exits shouldn't be occur. It's obviously a bug in
dungeon generation.
> Visiting pub there caused weird strings to show instead of dish names.
Ups. To be fixed.
> Lastly, a feture request. Could you implement some message saying that a
> monster has been killed? Or maybe it is done, but after kill message box
> gets cleared at once.
For normal monsters, "You kill the ..." is shown. Do you request to let
this message be visible longer?
> And oh, hatchet in description is "hatched".
To be fixed.
Thanks for your report,
Mario
sPlaTH
I guess some people think that killing a rat should be quite easy and
therefore attack without thought.
Labeling the rat "giant" would certainly make the player think once or
twice before attempting so.
Btw, some rats in Morrowind are diseased making them alot stronger
than normal rats.
zai...@zaimoni.com
> About getting killed by a rat at the beginning of the game.
> I guess some people think that killing a rat should be quite easy and
> therefore attack without thought.
Easy to kill rats belong in heroic fantasy. LambdaRogue strikes me as
a bit too realistically grounded for that. Some in-game impressions
about how good a chance you have of actually hitting in combat might
be in order.
If I was being pedantically realistic, I'd give the rat almost no hp,
but make it very hard to hit even when kicking/stomping or using a
weapon with correct reach. My dog would have an easier time killing
(and then eating) a rat than I would, but the rat still has to be
caught away from hard cover.
R. Dan Henry
<mario....@gmail.com> wrote:
>So, what should I do in the case of the rat?
>
>- rename the "rat" to "giant rat", so that it's totally clear that it's
>not just a small little cute thing?
Well, you might want to give it description like "This is not a cute
little pet rat. It is a hardened survivor in a harsh world. It has
pointy teeth and it isn't afraid to use them. Go ahead, then, have a go
if you think yer hard enough, mate."
--
R. Dan Henry = danh...@inreach.com
If you wish to put anything I post on your website,
please be polite enough to ask first.
David Damerell
>So, you say that in, e.g. Morrowind, on of the most praised RPGs ever,
>where I was killed by the very first monster I met (also a rat, also one
>of the easiest enemies) it was bad game design and not perhaps my wrong
>approach on the game?
Certainly it would be a bit harsh in a game with permadeath, especially if
it was _also_ a game with huge quantities of character generation.
POWDER could get away with it because character generation takes no time at
all, but it's still better now you start wearing your armour and wielding
your weapon.
>- rename the "rat" to "giant rat", so that it's totally clear that it's
>not just a small little cute thing?
"rabid rat" ?
>- prevent the player to generate characters with such a low fight value?
Well, there's no harm in _warning_ in character generation. I do think
games with a wide scope of character generation options should encourage
the player towards straightforward characters ("bash things, take stuff"
in the classic dungeoneering setting) and warn them of unusually
challenging combinations.
>- tell the player "You are too weak to kill this enemy. You should
>better get a weapon"?
Such a warning for extremely weak characters wouldn't hurt. Or, if you can
inspect monsters, do what POWDER does and have a vague guess at
difficulty. "It looks like a hard fight", "It looks like your funeral",
etc.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Second Monday, May.
Mario Donick
> Well, there's no harm in _warning_ in character generation.
This idea is okay. I will think about a way to implement it.
Sherman Pendley
> Quoting Mario Donick <mario....@gmail.com>:
>
>>- rename the "rat" to "giant rat", so that it's totally clear that it's
>>not just a small little cute thing?
>
> "rabid rat" ?
Rodent of Unusual Size.
sherm--
--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Michal Bielinski
> Thank you for this extensive testing, you gave me a very useful report
> about weird things :-D
That's good to hear.
>> The only complaint about well generated wilderness is there are not enough
>> pikes to hunt.
>
> One has just to wait for a while (kill some other guys or go down to
> second lvl and go back up immediatly), then pikes will respawn soon.
Ah, helped greatly, thanks!
>> More about keys: enter waits for two keypresses. First is ignored and only
>> second matters.
>
> Really? Strange. In which cases? In [press ENTER to contine] messages?
> In general game (e.g. for open doors)? Could you clarify if you use
> Windows or Linux, and which Linux? If you self-compiled the source,
> could tell me which version of FreePascal you used (the one which ships,
> for example, with Ubuntu does not work very well, because it produces
> strange interface bugs; the one from freepascal.org is better).
Arghhh, I thought I removed this from message. It was error on my part but
can't remember details of getting into this delusion. Sorry for making false
alarm. Probably something connected with turning on/off numlock.
For future reference: Linux version with graphics off running in plain terminal.
>> Blood overwrites important terrain like lava. This resulted in some unpleasant
>> surprises to one of my characters.
>
> I will consider to change this, but since 0.3, where blood is smaller
> and transparent, the floor tile beneath the blood should be visible. O.o
I was talking about console mode. The ASCII '=' isn't visible from under '.'. :-P
>> I could not finish fetch item quests. How to deliver item to a npc? Dropping
>> is disabled in square and simply talking with item in inventory doesn't
>> work.
>
> The second option (item in inventory) should work. Could you tell me
> which quest you talk about?
Den doesn't take the cake, Claudio refuses to accept cards.
Also, Tiva seems to drop a bottle of water but I could not pick it up.
>> Overall fun game. I found some targets and mashed them. Toyed around with
>> disassembling items. Discovered that arrows are made of metal. Weird.
>
> Why not? The <- (the thing which stabs into you when you're hit; but
> at the moment I don't know the english word for "Pfeilspitze" and am too
> lazy too look it up) is made of metal in many kinds of arrows.
Arrow head? I was surprised more by the fact it was made whole of metal.
Shouldn't my character get some wood too?
>> My last character was trapped in a dungeon without exit unless you have
>> implemented secret doors. He fell through a trapdoor to lower dungeon level.
>
> Dungeons without exits shouldn't be occur. It's obviously a bug in
> dungeon generation.
I have a savefile for another character with the same problem. Should I email
it to you? (24546 bytes when gzipped)
>> Lastly, a feture request. Could you implement some message saying that a
>> monster has been killed? Or maybe it is done, but after kill message box
>> gets cleared at once.
>
> For normal monsters, "You kill the ..." is shown. Do you request to let
> this message be visible longer?
I never saw it so I think yes. At least for one turn.
--
Michal Bielinski
Krice
> In real life, if you found yourself in a cave with a rat, could you
> kill it?
What planet are you from? Of course I can kill a rat! And
rats don't kill people, they're too small to do that.
> Probably you wouldn't even hit it
If it's standing in front of me (like in roguelike games)
then why not? If you can't hit the rat (in rl) then it would
be nicer if the rat would move away from the player (dodge
the hit).
> Rats in games are generally "giant rats", which might be as
> big as a lion
Then it should be easier to hit them.
Mario Donick
> Arghhh, I thought I removed this from message. It was error on my part but
> can't remember details of getting into this delusion. Sorry for making false
> alarm. Probably something connected with turning on/off numlock.
Okay, great.
>>> Blood overwrites important terrain like lava. This resulted in some unpleasant
>>> surprises to one of my characters.
>> I will consider to change this, but since 0.3, where blood is smaller
>> and transparent, the floor tile beneath the blood should be visible. O.o
>
> I was talking about console mode. The ASCII '=' isn't visible from under '.'. :-P
Yeah, some hours later I got this point, too. In 0.3.0.1, blood is only
drawn in SDL mode, and if one wishes, blood can also be switched off in
the config file.
>>> I could not finish fetch item quests. How to deliver item to a npc? Dropping
>>> is disabled in square and simply talking with item in inventory doesn't
>>> work.
>> The second option (item in inventory) should work. Could you tell me
>> which quest you talk about?
>
> Den doesn't take the cake, Claudio refuses to accept cards.
> Also, Tiva seems to drop a bottle of water but I could not pick it up.
This has been fixed already, it was indeed a problem with different
spelling in textfiles. The quest engine does not difference between
lowercase and uppercase, and shortly before releasing 0.3, I edited
items, so (for example) "Bottle of Water" is the item, but the NPCs
still want "bottle of water".
> Arrow head? I was surprised more by the fact it was made whole of metal.
> Shouldn't my character get some wood too?
Ah, that's right. I will fix this, too.
> I have a savefile for another character with the same problem. Should I email
> it to you? (24546 bytes when gzipped)
Yes, would be great. Use the same mail address as I use in my posts.
>> For normal monsters, "You kill the ..." is shown. Do you request to let
>> this message be visible longer?
>
> I never saw it so I think yes. At least for one turn.
Okay, I'll try that.
Thanks again,
Mario
Numeron
> big as a lion
In roguelike games I personally still think of giant rats as very low
in difficulty. Just normal rats with a bit more HP. Hense the problem
with rats is that its a totally ambiguous: they could be one hit
fodder, or they might be one step under a lion as above. renaming them
"giant" or similar doesnt really help this, I think the best solution
would be to rename them "Scavenger". This name promotes more caution
on the user's behalf because a scavenger could be just about anything
and any size.
Numeron
Krice
> This is in front of the shopkeeper:
> @
No, it's on top. One thing I'm wondering is why you decided
to use strange and non-standard solutions in this game? You
must have known that players don't like that?
stu
> This is because of my definition of "in front of" and "next to":
>
> This is next to a shopkeeper:
>
> @1
>
> This is in front of the shopkeeper:
> @
>
> (so, the "on top of", as you'd call it)
Your definition does not agree with the rest of the world.
Blazing trails is great. but saying yes is no and no is yes
just confuses people.
Its unintuitive as it stands right now.
-stu
Mario Donick
> One thing I'm wondering is why you decided
> to use strange and non-standard solutions in this game?
Players who don't know roguelikes don't even care about the way I did
it - for them, it's the first roguelike they ever played. So what ...
Mario
Mario Donick
Partly it's a inconsequent approach to mimic Angband where you run
into the numbers and enter automatically a building. Well, I made the
buildings to NPC-traders, but kept the positioning of the @.
Krice
> Players who don't know roguelikes don't even care about the way I did
> it - for them, it's the first roguelike they ever played.
Are you on medication? That doesn't make any sense!
Mario Donick
I might explain to you where to find coherence in my statement, but
I'm too lazy.
Krice
> I might explain to you where to find coherence in my statement, but
> I'm too lazy.
Maybe you want people to get angry so you can play a calm
mindfucker, but you have a strange way to do that, with a
computer game. Well I guess people do things for different
reasons.
Martin Read
>Players who don't know roguelikes don't even care about the way I did
>it - for them, it's the first roguelike they ever played. So what ...
People who are used to tile-graphic games with NPCs expect to talk to
NPCs by standing *next* to them and using some kind of "interact"
command.
Gerry Quinn
@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, pfho...@gmail.com says...
> > Can you really?
> > In real life, if you found yourself in a cave with a rat, could you
> > into some nook where you can't reach.
> > And that's just real-life rats. Rats in games are generally "giant
> > rats", which might be as big as a lion and spread fatal diseases with
> > a single bite.
>
> You really, really, *REALLY* don't want to start arguing that. The
> issue of realism versus fun is a topic that separates the really
> shitty games from the great games. Nobody wants to play a game that
> isn't fun *to them*, and very clearly getting killed by the very first
> monster, a pathetic rat in this case, ranks really high on the "not
> fun" list, regardless of how the designer intended the player to play.
> It's a hallmark of good game design for the game to be well prepared
> in anticipation of player stupidity. It says more about the game than
> the player if players give up in the first few minutes.
Not if the player is Krice.
- Gerry Quinn
Timofei Shatrov
to confuse everyone with this message:
>David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
>
>> Quoting Mario Donick <mario....@gmail.com>:
>>
>>>- rename the "rat" to "giant rat", so that it's totally clear that it's
>>>not just a small little cute thing?
>>
>> "rabid rat" ?
>
>Rodent of Unusual Size.
>
I wonder which roguelikes have them, aside from The Sewer Massacre?
--
|Don't believe this - you're not worthless ,gr---------.ru
|It's us against millions and we can't take them all... | ue il |
|But we can take them on! | @ma |
| (A Wilhelm Scream - The Rip) |______________|
Christopher Evenstar
Also, yer style got me thinking about DND-style grappling were you
have to enter the square to grapple. And why couldn't two entities
share a square? Especially in a noncombat situation. I don't see any
problem with it. Somewhat unintuitive, but the "Would you like to
(a)ttack or (m)ove?" prompt gives us a hint. Anyway, I figured it
out, and I'm not the smartest box of chocolates.
Just realized I haven't tried attacking a woman while standing on top
of her yet. I guess I'd better. So, a couple of crticisms: The
game's kinda boring as it stands. Mainly because the monsters are
infrequent and easy to run from I think. Anybody else think so?
Also, it runs kind of dark on my Windows and Linux box with SDL. I
haven't tried the console version yet. Looks great at night, but very
hard to see in the daytime. Oh, I haven't gotten past second level of
the dungeon yet, so the monsters may be spiced up further down. Ya nye
znaoo.
Keep it up,
Christopher
Jürgen Lerch
On Sat, 10 May 2008 02:29:30 GMT, gr...@mail.ru (Timofei Shatrov) wrote:
> On Thu, 08 May 2008 12:12:01 -0400, Sherman Pendley <spam...@dot-app.org>
> >David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
> >Rodent of Unusual Size.
> I wonder which roguelikes have them, aside from The Sewer Massacre?
MiCRoS. :-)
Ad Astra!
JuL
--
jyn...@gmx.de / L'état, c'est toi. (Moi)
Jürgen ,,JuL'' Lerch /
Mario Donick
> Just realized I haven't tried attacking a woman while standing on top
> of her yet. I guess I'd better. So, a couple of crticisms: The
> game's kinda boring as it stands. Mainly because the monsters are
> infrequent and easy to run from I think.
At the moment, 1% of free tiles of the wilderniss (i.e. 1% of all tiles
that are no walls, no mountains etc.) is filled with monsters. In
dungeons, 2% of all tiles is filled with monsters. Of course you can run
away easy.
Monsters in wilderness, except the Raider (R) in the town have no
special attacks. While you go deeper in the dungeon (which is the point
of the game), they become stronger, use magic and long-range attacks.
Since 0.3.0.1, which I released yesterday, there also monster's hives
with a concentration of monsters around them. If a monster dies, the
game first tries to spawn a new monster next to the hive, if there's
space. Consequence: Until the hive is destroyed (by simply attacking it;
currently only melee, not with fire-arms or magic), the room with the
hive will be full of monsters. This is yet another thing I stole from
Diablo; don't know if roguelikes had this idea before Blizzard made it
commercial.
> Also, it runs kind of dark on my Windows and Linux box with SDL.
If you use 0.3, have you tried to switch to the second tileset which is
much brighter? (Of course, there's a bug in 0.3 where the fog of war is
drawn using the darker first tileset, although the brighter one had been
selected. This bug is fixed in 0.3.0.1, which I released yesterday).
Mario
Mario Donick
> On 9 touko, 22:30, Mario Donick <mario.don...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> I might explain to you where to find coherence in my statement, but
>> I'm too lazy.
>
> Maybe you want people to get angry so you can play a calm
> mindfucker, but you have a strange way to do that, with a
> computer game.
Well, not everybody is an ass like you. [yeah, the first time I called
Krice an ass]. Some do it more gentle. *fg*
<closed>
Mario Donick
> Also, yer style got me thinking about DND-style grappling were you
> have to enter the square to grapple.
Sry, I did not see this line in the post, so I have to make to answers.
I don't really get the point, languagewise: My dictionary says,
"grapple" means "packen", "ergreifen" - don't know if you're speaking of
picking up items (which is one of the things I do like most roguelikes:
walk in front of the item (most would say "on top") and press "g" (or
"," in some games)) or if you're speaking of anything else. Also don't
know what "DND-style" refers to.
Mario Donick
thanks for all the feedback. In general, it covers the whole range, from
"fun to play" til "boring 'cause too easy to run away from too few
monsters". And additionally, of course, "your game sucks 'cause the UI
is partly not as we are used it from other roguelike".
To keep track of your suggestions, I have created an issue list which
collects all points named in this thread (but not bugs, only things
which refer to the intended behavior of the game):
http://donick.net/lr/dl-showentry.php?n=8
The list is not a guarantee that I will change everything, but at least
I take you all serious (even Krice).
Mario Donick
Pfhoenix
foot square area as the enemy you are grappling with. This forces
anyone wanting to attack you, or the enemy you're grappling with, to
incur penalties to-hit for targeted strikes (unless you're using magic
that can't miss or you have certain feats).
It makes no sense to me, from a programming and player perspective,
for two objects that aren't items on the ground to be in the same
square at the same time. Perhaps you should simply have the player
bump into the shop keepers to initiate conversation and avoid the
overlapping objects entirely.
- Pfhoenix
http://adeo.pfhoenix.com
Holysemmo
> Well, not everybody is an ass like you. [yeah, the first time I called
> Krice an ass]. Some do it more gentle. *fg*
i don't now about you... but i'm still waiting for kaduria.
10 years.
Mario Donick
> In D&D, when you grapple (wrestling), you are considered in the same 5
> foot square area as the enemy you are grappling with. This forces
> anyone wanting to attack you, or the enemy you're grappling with, to
> incur penalties to-hit for targeted strikes (unless you're using magic
> that can't miss or you have certain feats).
Thanks for the explanation, obviously I totally missed the point here O.o
> It makes no sense to me, from a programming and player perspective,
> for two objects that aren't items on the ground to be in the same
> square at the same time.
Well, Christopher wrote
"And why couldn't two entities share a square? Especially in a
noncombat situation. I don't see any problem with it."
Am I right when I consider yours and Christopher's opinion to be
contrary to each other? That you say "1 square = 1 object" while
Christopher says "1 square = 1..n objects"?
> Perhaps you should simply have the player bump into the shop keepers to initiate
> conversation and avoid the overlapping objects entirely.
I thought about that idea, this would really be something like the
Angband style. But I think if I changed the way it's handled at the
moment, I'd change it to "1 square, 1 tile", and talking to a trader or
NPC requires standing
....
.@1.
....
pressing "t" for talk, perhaps followed by a direction key if there is
more than 1 possibility. Now one could say pressing the direction key
without "t" would be sufficient / should be recognized as "player wishes
to talk", but perhaps player wishes to attack.
Mario
Mario Donick
I know roguelikes not a very long time, perhaps 3 years. So I can't wait
so long. But unlike some others, I never had a doubt that Krice works on
Kaduria, and I think he'll might finish it some day. That day might be
far far away in future, we all might be dead a long time when Kaduria
will be finished by his children or grandchildren, but (besides this
sarcasm) I really think it will be finished.
However, sometimes it seems Krice won't even try to change his
perspective and try to understand other ways of doing things, or even to
put hisself in the position of others who don't think like himself or
like the mass.
Holysemmo
> I know roguelikes not a very long time, perhaps 3 years. So I can't wait
> so long. But unlike some others, I never had a doubt that Krice works on
> Kaduria, and I think he'll might finish it some day. That day might be
> far far away in future, we all might be dead a long time when Kaduria
> will be finished by his children or grandchildren, but (besides this
> sarcasm) I really think it will be finished.
Even if krice will complete it, kaduria will appear like a common 7drl
howerver.... i really don't think kaduria will be finished.
Christopher Evenstar
Grappling is another word for ringen I think. The point I was trying
to make if you make things work a little differently then were used to
it can help spark our imaginations. AFAIK there aren't very many,
(OK, I can't think of any), roguelikes that allow you to attack an
enemy you are "standing on". So, while it may be somewhat unintuitive
at first, it let's us look at an old concept in a new way. DND is
short for dungeons and dragons. I'm referring to the third edition
wrestling/grappling/packen rules. Make sense?
As for my comment that your game is boring:
I don't think the game is boring in general, I just think it could
be populated more and the monsters could be a little faster. But they
don't have to be. They're not in Diablo and that's a great rl game
(IMO of course). Anyway, I like your game overall and I understand
balance and pacing( how quickly action takes place in a game) takes
time to develop, and that I've only played a few hours, so please take
my boring comment lightly.
I forgot to check lightness on my Ubuntu machine this morning, so I
will after this post and let you know how it looks. It looked great
last night, but, you know, it was nighttime. I love the way your SDL
display looks, by the way. I remember being impressed with it back in
2006. And your wilderness looks fantastic. I really like what your
doing, so please keep it up.
Christopher
Gerry Quinn
@c58g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, mario....@googlemail.com says...
> Unfortunately, the same RGB values look bright at my screen, too dark
> at my screen at work, a little dark at my CRT monitor ... That's why
> you can select a brighter variant of the tileset ingame.
So go into Display Properties/Settings/Advanced/Color and set each
machine so that the colours look okay.
There's little reason why most games should need gamma options.
- Gerry Quinn
Mario Donick
> Make sense?
Yeah, thanks :)
> I don't think the game is boring in general, I just think it could
> be populated more and the monsters could be a little faster.
In the next release, 0.3.0.2, I removed all monsters that are considered
to be human (except human unique monsters like the "R"aider in lvl 1),
so all these moving "0"s are gone. It's because they don't have a real
purpose other than working as decoration or victims for player attacks.
As they count as normal monsters, they're also the reason why there are
rather few "real" monsters in the wilderness. Now, with removed "0",
there are lots of more enemies going around, so more to kill, more to
run away from (and the "hunt 8 pikes" quest should be faster to solve now).
I will also provide three difficulty levels (bronze, silver, gold) which
affect the total monster population, the maximum distance monsters
follow the player (their speed, so to say) and the probability of
attacks by a monster next to the player. Standard is "silver". So if the
game is too easy, one can try "gold", if it'stoo hard, one can try
"bronze". The difficulty level can be selected in character generation
screen.
> I love the way your SDL display looks, by the way. I remember being
> impressed with it back in 2006. And your wilderness looks fantastic.
I plan to add some more wilderness tiles to the random dungeon generator
to give the wilderness some more variety. At the moment, there are many
areas which repeat themselves.
> I really like what your doing, so please keep it up.
I will. :)
Mario
pol
remember the name of that creature and then when I took him to a bbq the
other day this girl said the same thing - "He looks like that thing from the
Princess Bride!"
"Sherman Pendley" <spam...@dot-app.org> wrote in message
news:m1bq3gr...@dot-app.org...
> David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> writes:
>
>> Quoting Mario Donick <mario....@gmail.com>:
>>
>>>- rename the "rat" to "giant rat", so that it's totally clear that it's
>>>not just a small little cute thing?
>>
>> "rabid rat" ?
>
> Rodent of Unusual Size.
>
> sherm--
>
> --
> My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
> Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net