OT ELITE TROLLING
ABCGi
This is not about anyone who isn't not a
non-troll.
It seems to me there are only two reasons
to reply to an elite troll;
1. Entertainment
2. Not realizing the elite troll is insincere
The first is fine, play till bored, the second
is sad as it sucks the life out of helpful
experts on usenet and damages newsgroups -
since those that have kill filed the elite
troll must then read the replies to baits.
So this educational post is to help in recognising
the elite troll in the wild (unfortunately this
post counts as having been baited too).
THE ELITE TROLL ROGUELIKE
WIN CONDITIONS
Aim to waste as much time as possible
+1 for every reply generated
+2 for anyone upset (per post)
+3 for anyone who killfiles the elite troll
Last as long as possible
Win when totally ignored/kill filed
Win when newsgroup destroyed
LOSE CONDITIONS
Someone else out-posts the elite troll
(newsgroup loses as well)
The elite troll becomes bored and gives up
END GAME
Harass other newsgroups
Wait, change nic, repeat
RULES
* Be an insincere poster - never mean anything you post
* Always be contrary regardless of logic/facts/truth etc
* Deny everything esp. if it is true, lie
* Deny true identity
* Reply to every post
* Invade every thread
* Do not kill file anyone
* Use appellations against criticism
* Snip relevant content
* Always get the last post
* Ask for but never take any advice
* Always be hypocritical
* Pretend to be lazy (posting a lot is not lazy)
* All feedback to be milked but not actually considered
* Maintain high Signal to Noise Ratio
* Appear to post on topic although deranged
* Be doing it for many, many years
* If necessary bring in a fake nic to argue
with yourself!!!
BAITS
The Elite Troll is better at surviving and baiting
experts and the semblance of some worthwhile posts
but every post is in fact a troll in disguise.
* Break netiquette on purpose to tempt net cops
* Half right posts to bait experts
* Gets facts wrong on purpose
* Ask "who?" for people you already know
* Why make me look up google?
* Ask obvious questions you already know
* You must explain yourself for things I already
know and have looked up
* Lie about personal situation and elicit help
from friendly posters but resist all advice
* Post deliberately flawed arguments that
appear genuine - support it with flawed links
* Deliberate idiocy
* Swearing and insults
* Milk controversial topics with purposefully twisted
rants so the fewest possible people could actually
agree and will be tempted to reply...
* Tell others what to do
* Feign lack of knowledge
* snip valid points and replace with short summary
* Post whatever rubbish will get the most replies
regardless of whether you actually believe it
* Post the occasional good post that ppl might
remember and confuse the elite troll with an
idiot, or someone quite wacky... but even this
post is insincere and intended only to continue
trolling
The immortal status of ShockFrost and Amy Wang are
perhaps the type of goal desired... anyway its not
all that clever, elite trolling is the result of
an insecure ego.
A concern I have about trolls is what if they
branch out into wikis once they reach a certain
point of popularity - thus the public service
announcement.
Please do not reply... ah I regret this already
but it's too much work not too post.
--
ABCGi ---- (ab...@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloBand
Heroic Adventure - Tower of Doom - Tendrils - TheTombs
Hansjoerg Malthaner
> FYIO Please do not reply to this thread.
Oh, what a tempatation :)
> This is not about anyone who isn't not a
> non-troll.
Aha. (Tries to count the negations to find out if that was a positive or
negative statement - decides to feel addressed anyways.)
> It seems to me there are only two reasons
> to reply to an elite troll;
>
> 1. Entertainment
Yes!
> 2. Not realizing the elite troll is insincere
Maybe. It can be fun to be serious about nonesense.
> The first is fine, play till bored, the second
> is sad as it sucks the life out of helpful
> experts on usenet and damages newsgroups -
> since those that have kill filed the elite
> troll must then read the replies to baits.
Yes. A while I was reading every message in this group. But the last
weeks made this a rather worthless waste of time, and so I just peek
into messages that look intersting somehow. Like this one :)
> So this educational post is to help in recognising
> the elite troll in the wild (unfortunately this
> post counts as having been baited too).
Having bitten and being bitten in the past, I read this with great
amusement :)
> THE ELITE TROLL ROGUELIKE
>
> WIN CONDITIONS
> Aim to waste as much time as possible
> +1 for every reply generated
> +2 for anyone upset (per post)
> +3 for anyone who killfiles the elite troll
> Last as long as possible
> Win when totally ignored/kill filed
> Win when newsgroup destroyed
The winning conditions are screwed. The scoring system is probably
different for each troll. I often was interested in testing how long I
was able to defend an obviously wrong and basically undefendable point.
Part of the fun is to discover weaknesses in arguments and counter them
in ways that the original poster has problems with, and cannot easily
set straight.
> LOSE CONDITIONS
> Someone else out-posts the elite troll
> (newsgroup loses as well)
> The elite troll becomes bored and gives up
You don't suggest I should try, do you?
> END GAME
> Harass other newsgroups
> Wait, change nic, repeat
I must leaves this to professional trolls to answer.
> RULES
> * Be an insincere poster - never mean anything you post
Doesn't work. To argue well, you must try to think that your opion is
the right one.
> * Always be contrary regardless of logic/facts/truth etc
This gives the other isde to many options to attck. Better is to calim
things noone can prove or disprove, yet are know to be disbelieved by a
majority of the group your trolling.
Graphics is better than ASCII. There is no doubt, and I can prove that!
> * Deny everything esp. if it is true, lie
I'm not sure if that is a promising long term strategy.
> * Deny true identity
This is a good idea, but who'd assume a troll uses his true identity
anyways? maybe the real elite trolls use the real identities and noone
takes it for real beacuse everyone knows trolls use fake identities.
> * Reply to every post
Up to the human doable in 24/7. If not doable, use a posting-bot.
> * Invade every thread
Only if there is chance to start a flamewar.
> * Do not kill file anyone
Never.
> * Snip relevant content
Yes. If you can't win, confuse.
> * Always get the last post
The other side usually trolls better.
> * Ask for but never take any advice
Also, give advice without being asked for, and try to give advice that
will spawn contradiction.
> * Always be hypocritical
And be emotional!
> * Maintain high Signal to Noise Ratio
You mean noise-to-signal, don't you?
> * Appear to post on topic although deranged
Feng-Shui says anyways that bended paths are much better than straight ways.
> * If necessary bring in a fake nic to argue
> with yourself!!!
That's among my favorites. You can even develop a serious case of split
personality this way.
> BAITS
> The Elite Troll is better at surviving and baiting
> experts and the semblance of some worthwhile posts
> but every post is in fact a troll in disguise.
>
> * Break netiquette on purpose to tempt net cops
*laughs*
> * Half right posts to bait experts
Yes, that's clever because some of the simple minded may join your side,
and the experst have to fight them as well as you.
> * Gets facts wrong on purpose
Just slightly off, just as much to support your point, or inflict
serious doubt on the other sides point.
> * Ask "who?" for people you already know
You never can be sure about someone on usenet.
> * Ask obvious questions you already know
Yes, this way you find out on which levels you can attack the other side
best.
> * Post deliberately flawed arguments that
> appear genuine - support it with flawed links
Oh, the memories. There is a generator for philosophical documents out
there on the web. The documents are mostly random, yet it won a price
from a philosophical society. Oh, the irony! Sorry, can't find it again.
> * Deliberate idiocy
Unkowledge is a shelter.
> * Swearing and insults
Bah, that's bad style. Elite trolls don't need that, although it can be
very efficient.
> * Tell others what to do
Of course. But that's not limited to trolls.
> * Feign lack of knowledge
Just makes the others spend their power on many thinsg so that they
can't focus on the important points.
> * snip valid points and replace with short summary
Precisely: a slightly modified summary that supports your view.
> * Post whatever rubbish will get the most replies
> regardless of whether you actually believe it
Yes, that works.
> * Post the occasional good post that ppl might
> remember and confuse the elite troll with an
> idiot, or someone quite wacky... but even this
> post is insincere and intended only to continue
> trolling
I think I wrote too much of them, and should try more serious trolling
again.
> The immortal status of ShockFrost and Amy Wang are
> perhaps the type of goal desired... anyway its not
> all that clever, elite trolling is the result of
> an insecure ego.
Live is change. If you stop changing yourself, you're dead.
> Please do not reply... ah I regret this already
> but it's too much work not too post.
Thank you very much for this message. It's perfect to start a lengthy
discussion on the perfect approach to trolling. I really wish I could've
answered all points in full detail, yet there are other groups and
forums that deserve my attention.
Please don't feel a bad about that. You're surely among my favorites.
--
Hajo
Antoine
Mm, that would be a problem, wouldn't it.
By the way, have you checked out this blog...?
http://www.livejournal.com/users/kydaimon
A.
Twisted One
> FYIO
FYI = for your information.
FYIO = ?
[Snip what looks like a thinly-disguised flame]
Oathbreaking, ABCGi?
--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Twisted One
[snip]
600 lines of quoted material
6 lines of original material
Anyone else see something wrong with this picture?
Twisted One
> By the way, have you checked out this blog...?
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/kydaimon
Oh my fucking God.
My brother has a blog.
*runs screaming*
Sherm Pendley
> Antoine wrote:
>
>> By the way, have you checked out this blog...?
>> http://www.livejournal.com/users/kydaimon
There are some broken image links. I looked to see what they were, and
lo and behold what do I see:
<http://members.rogers.com/ianderbyshire/images/rental.jpg>
Ian Derbyshire...
> Oh my fucking God.
> My brother has a blog.
... brother of Paul Derbyshire, aka Neo, aka Idiot Boy.
sherm--
--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Twisted One
[snip]
Have you not got anything better to do with your time (and this newsgroup)?
Glen Wheeler
"Sherm Pendley" <spam...@dot-app.org> wrote in message
news:IqednewOvv4...@adelphia.com...
> Twisted One wrote:
>
>> Antoine wrote:
>>
>>> By the way, have you checked out this blog...?
>>> http://www.livejournal.com/users/kydaimon
>
> There are some broken image links. I looked to see what they were, and lo
> and behold what do I see:
>
> <http://members.rogers.com/ianderbyshire/images/rental.jpg>
>
> Ian Derbyshire...
>
>> Oh my fucking God.
>> My brother has a blog.
>
> ... brother of Paul Derbyshire, aka Neo, aka Idiot Boy.
>
> sherm--
>
In all the years I have seen Neo troll rgra, not one has bothered to find
his real identity. Congratulations.
--
Glen
L:Pyt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
Twisted One
> In all the years I have seen Neo troll rgra, not one has bothered to find
> his real identity. Congratulations.
There's a reason I don't want it know, jackasses. I don't want anyone
stalking me or giving me trouble offline. Now why don't the two of you
just shut the fuck up?
Sherm Pendley
> There's a reason I don't want it know, jackasses.
Yeah - you're afraid of what potential employers will find when they
Google for your name.
Twisted One
[snip]
Go fuck yourself.
Antoine
Sherm Pendley wrote:
> Paul Derbyshire wrote:
>
> > There's a reason I don't want it know, jackasses.
>
> Yeah - you're afraid of what potential employers will find when they
> Google for your name.
Don't think so, as this would be a problem already. Try googling 'Paul
Derbyshire' and have a look at the stuff on the first couple of pages.
Specifically the messages about him on the kde-devel and mersenne
lists, and the Carleton University Cabal one. It's already enough to
put an employer off, I think.
A.
Sherm Pendley
> Go fuck yourself.
You think you're going to get hired with that mouth, Paul?
cara...@my-deja.com
Twisted One wrote:
> Glen Wheeler wrote:
> > In all the years I have seen Neo troll rgra, not one has bothered
to find
> > his real identity. Congratulations.
>
> There's a reason I don't want it know, jackasses. I don't want anyone
> stalking me or giving me trouble offline. Now why don't the two of
you
> just shut the fuck up?
We've had our eye on you for some time now, Mr. Derbyshire.
It seems you've been living two lives.
In one life you're Paul Derbyshire, (normally) mild-mannered eccentric,
unemployed computer programmer. You have a social security number, you
collect unemployment, and you play Quake.
The other life is lived in newsgroups, where you go by the alias "Neo"
and are guilty of virtually every netiquette breach we have a
convention for. One of these lives has a future, and one of them does
not...
...My colleagues believe that I am wasting my time with you, but I
believe you wish to do the right thing. We're willing to wipe the slate
clean, give you a fresh start, and all that we're asking in return is
your co-operation in not antagonizing the newsfroup...
Twisted One
[snip]
This drivel is off-topic in this group, and inflammatory. You may now
a) shut the fuck up,
b) go to hell, or
c) fuck off and die; take your pick.
Twisted One
[snip]
You think you're going to get laid by acting perpetually like an
angst-filled 14-year old always spoiling for a fight?
Twisted One
[snip assorted nonsense]
> ...My colleagues believe that I am wasting my time with you, but I
> believe you wish to do the right thing. We're willing to wipe the slate
> clean, give you a fresh start, and all that we're asking in return is
> your co-operation in not antagonizing the newsfroup...
The only people doing any antagonizing around here are you and your
cronies. Stop posting off-topic stuff. Then I will stop posting
off-topic replies and we can return to our regularly scheduled rgrd-ing.
Sherm Pendley
> a) shut the fuck up,
> b) go to hell, or
> c) fuck off and die; take your pick.
You're racking up quite a score there, Paul. Best of luck with those job
applications.
Twisted One
[snip]
When exactly were you planning to shut up and restrict yourself to
posting on-topic again?
Paul Murray
> Paul Derbyshire wrote:
>> There's a reason I don't want it know, jackasses.
> Yeah - you're afraid of what potential employers will find when they
> Google for your name.
Doesn't look like that is going to be a problem anytime soon though, does it?
Twisted One
[snip]
This is off-topic, speculative drivel with nearly zero basis in facts.
You must have some roguelike in the works or something -- go discuss
that. Or find a different newsgroup. Or shut the fuck up.
Sherm Pendley
> When exactly were you planning to shut up
I've answered that a thousand times already - when you stop trolling, I
stop responding.
Kornel Kisielewicz
> cara...@my-deja.com wrote:
> [snip assorted nonsense]
>
>> ...My colleagues believe that I am wasting my time with you, but I
>> believe you wish to do the right thing. We're willing to wipe the slate
>> clean, give you a fresh start, and all that we're asking in return is
>> your co-operation in not antagonizing the newsfroup...
>
>
> The only people doing any antagonizing around here are you and your
> cronies. Stop posting off-topic stuff. Then I will stop posting
> off-topic replies and we can return to our regularly scheduled rgrd-ing.
He's got a point here guys. And I think you all just leveled up with him
in this thread. Disgusting. Neo is a troll (at least most of the time)
but you guys now just break the nettiquete. I wonder how much better
that makes you then Neo...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"From what I've read, a lot of people believe that GenRogue
exists and will be released some day" -- Arxenia Xentrophore
Twisted One
[snip misattribution and other garbage]
I am not trolling. You are flaming and flamebaiting. It is off-topic in
this group. Your service provider may be notified.
Sherm Pendley
> I am not trolling. You are flaming and flamebaiting. It is off-topic in
> this group. Your service provider may be notified.
Best of luck with that.