pdcurses for .Net
simen....@gmail.com
library, but it takes a long time, and it not much fun. If someone
already has created a wrapper, where can I download it? I think my time
could be spent better on other sides of my project :)
Kornel Kisielewicz
.NET is Evil! Don't use .NET, or else any time you will post on RGRD
horrorific deamons like the Twisted One, and others will start stalking
you! My, my, you need to be full of courage to use .NET and post on RGRD
;-).
P.S. I hope HA! can answer your question. Myself I keep as far as
possible from .NET.
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Well, the philosophy of the World of Shadows is based on most of the
degenerate, immoral and foremost amoral philosophical beliefs of our
world exagarated to the maximum." --Anubis
Raymond Martineau
>Is there a version of pdcurses for .Net? I've started wrapping up the
>library, but it takes a long time, and it not much fun.
Wrapping the library isn't as much of a burden as it appears - in fact, it
could even be beneficial.
In any case, I've managed to complete a display wrapper that used both
PDCurses and Windows Console for the 7DRL competition in March. It doesn't
take that long to do unless you intend to wrap the entire library.
My method involves drawing on a buffer, then writing the contents of that
buffer to the output. It took 180 lines of code for the header file
(containing the display class), ~140 to write the PDCurses specific
wrapper, and ~150 for the Windows console wrapper.
It may seem tedious, but it isn't as difficult or tedious as it appears to
be.
Heroic Adventure
Not sure why you need PDCurses.
If you're using the 1.0 or 1.1 .NET Framework, you can use ConsoleEX to
cover most needs (although it doesn't support arrow keys).
If you are using the 2.0 .NET Framework, you can drop ConsoleEx because
the Framework now supports everything ConsoleEx offered, plus the
ability to trap arrow keys.
Out of curiosity, which lang are you using?
C.
Twisted One
I think your time could be spent better on any other platform than .Net. ;)
--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? Trusted Computing? DRM? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Twisted One
> On 26 May 2005 16:21:18 -0700, simen....@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>Is there a version of pdcurses for .Net? I've started wrapping up the
>>library, but it takes a long time, and it not much fun.
>
> Wrapping the library isn't as much of a burden as it appears - in fact, it
> could even be beneficial.
No. Nothing at all associated with .Net can be beneficial, except maybe
to Bill Gates & cronies.
Lochok
>>
>>>Is there a version of pdcurses for .Net? I've started wrapping up the
>>>library, but it takes a long time, and it not much fun.
>>
>> Wrapping the library isn't as much of a burden as it appears - in fact,
>> it
>> could even be beneficial.
>
> No. Nothing at all associated with .Net can be beneficial, except maybe to
> Bill Gates & cronies.
>
I don't want to be entering a flamewar but I think you guys need to have a
little bit of an open mind here.
Whether or not you like it and believe it is right (I don't) Windows is
still, and it appears will remain the primary OS for the average user -
there is still not much of a Non-MS Base. And if you want a game to be
playable in the long-term - as I'd assume many people would, .NET is the
only credible option. By not allowing a Windows format, you are not doing
anything other then denying many people the opportunity to play your game
and with upcoming version(s) of Windows, it appears that with Win32 support,
its only a matter of time before it is out of use. After all - it is already
being phased out. Java's life-span is beginning to appear limited, but it
has since its conception and seems to just keep hanging in there.
Bill Gates, whether you like it or not has accepted that other OS's exist.
And as such, he's made .NET an open format leading to projects such as Mono
which will mean that using .NET will make it (comparitivly) easy to be able
to port to other platforms. This alone is a win for those on alternative
OS's as it allows people to use .NET applications that they are familiar
with (Microsoft Office etc.) and begin to 'see the light' with another OS
such as Linux. And once they are used to a new OS, many people will begin to
use native applications.
There is a lot more positive to .NET then meets the eye
Twisted One
> Whether or not you like it and believe it is right (I don't) Windows is
> still, and it appears will remain the primary OS for the average user -
> there is still not much of a Non-MS Base. And if you want a game to be
> playable in the long-term - as I'd assume many people would, .NET is the
> only credible option. By not allowing a Windows format, you are not doing
> anything other then denying many people the opportunity to play your game
> and with upcoming version(s) of Windows, it appears that with Win32 support,
> its only a matter of time before it is out of use. After all - it is already
> being phased out. Java's life-span is beginning to appear limited, but it
> has since its conception and seems to just keep hanging in there.
>
> Bill Gates, whether you like it or not has accepted that other OS's exist.
> And as such, he's made .NET an open format leading to projects such as Mono
> which will mean that using .NET will make it (comparitivly) easy to be able
> to port to other platforms. This alone is a win for those on alternative
> OS's as it allows people to use .NET applications that they are familiar
> with (Microsoft Office etc.) and begin to 'see the light' with another OS
> such as Linux. And once they are used to a new OS, many people will begin to
> use native applications.
>
> There is a lot more positive to .NET then meets the eye
Whether or not you like it and believe it is right (I don't) Windows is
not, and it appears will never be, the only OS for the average user -
there are still many Mac users and Linux is gaining ground on the
desktop. And if you want a game to be playable in the long-term, as I'd
assume many people would, being portable is the only credible option. By
using a Windows-only format, you are not doing anything other then
denying many people the opportunity to play your game and with upcoming
gains of Linux market share, it appears that without cross-platform
support, its only a matter of time before it is out of use. After all -
it is already being phased out. Windows' life-span is beginning to
appear limited, what with major governments and large corporations
defecting to the free unices, but it has since its conception and seems
to just keep hanging in there.
Bill Gates, whether you like it or not has decided that other OS's must
be destroyed. And as such, he's made .NET an "open format" but kept key
APIs obscure, obfuscated, crippled, or out-and-out patented, leading to
projects such as Mono which seem to show that .NET isn't Windows-only,
but in fact won't run much of anything (in particular, nothing that uses
.NET 2.0). This is only lip service for those on alternative OS's as it
allows people to use .NET applications that they are familiar with
(Microsoft Office etc.) only on Windows -- not that those on alternative
OS's WANT to use Microsoft Office anyway; they much prefer OpenOffice.
And once they are used to a new OS, many people will begin to
use native applications, which makes Mono moot anyway.
There is a lot more negative to .NET then meets the eye; notably, some
of the nastier things buried in the fine print of the encyclopedic EULA
(most of the Jovianesque mass of which is, of course, given over to
"shalt nots").
Risto Saarelma
> Is there a version of pdcurses for .Net? I've started wrapping up the
> library, but it takes a long time, and it not much fun. If someone
Assuming that you find no alternatives to writing your own wrapper, you
don't need to wrap the entire library. Just do the parts you need for
your game. Mostly moving the cursor around, printing characters and
strings, changing colors and reading input. This isn't a lot of trouble
at least in C#.
--
Risto Saarelma
Twisted One
> Assuming that you find no alternatives to writing your own wrapper, you
> don't need to wrap the entire library. Just do the parts you need for
> your game. Mostly moving the cursor around, printing characters and
> strings, changing colors and reading input. This isn't a lot of trouble
> at least in C#.
This posting is so insidious! It seems quite harmless and innocent,
right up until you read that last line. Then you see the bit after "at
least in" and toss your cookies, and it's bye-bye keyboard.
A little forewarning would have been nice!
Martin Read
>Risto Saarelma wrote:
>> This isn't a lot of trouble at least in C#.
>
>This posting is so insidious! It seems quite harmless and innocent,
>right up until you read that last line. Then you see the bit after "at
>least in" and toss your cookies, and it's bye-bye keyboard.
Dude. Get a prescription for a strong anti-nausea drug; you're going to
need it if you ever want to have non-zero market value in the software
development business.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
Twisted One
> Dude. Get a prescription for a strong anti-nausea drug; you're going to
> need it if you ever want to have non-zero market value in the software
> development business.
Or work for Red Hat... :)
simen....@gmail.com
drawing functions. Perhaps I dont need much more? I havent used curses
before. My previous project used the regular c library.
I didnt mean to start a flamewar here. I'm using .Net because I like
it. I used to be the man who thought 'If it doesnt compile to machine
code it sucks!', but after I started programming at work I realised I
didnt have time to code things in C, so I started using Lua and later
C#. I managed to keep deadlines better, so it's just my choice of
language at the time.
I still havent started using 2.0 Waiting for the final release as I
dont think many people other than developers have 2.0 at the time.
I want to use curses just because its curses and a lot of roguelikes
are using it.
-Simen
Martin Read
>Martin Read wrote:
>> Dude. Get a prescription for a strong anti-nausea drug; you're going to
>> need it if you ever want to have non-zero market value in the software
>> development business.
>
>Or work for Red Hat... :)
Nope. You'll still see *lots* of bad code.
--
Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
Ceci n'est pas un sigfile.
Heroic Adventure
> I have already wrapped up cursor movement, color, input and some of the
> drawing functions. Perhaps I dont need much more? I havent used curses
> before. My previous project used the regular c library.
>
> I didnt mean to start a flamewar here. I'm using .Net because I like
> it. I used to be the man who thought 'If it doesnt compile to machine
> code it sucks!', but after I started programming at work I realised I
> didnt have time to code things in C, so I started using Lua and later
> C#. I managed to keep deadlines better, so it's just my choice of
> language at the time.
>
> I still havent started using 2.0 Waiting for the final release as I
> dont think many people other than developers have 2.0 at the time.
>
> I want to use curses just because its curses and a lot of roguelikes
> are using it.
>
> -Simen
>
As you pointed out, I don't imagine too many people are using 2.0 at
this point other than developers, but by the time my game is ready I
think they will be.
Trust me, you didn't start a flamewar. Certain people harp on anything
MS related, even if they are incapable of making a coherent point other
than "MS bad!"
Using curses for the sake of curses seems counter-intuitive to me,
coming from a developer background I want to take advantage of the tools
that already exist, so I can concentrate on the fun parts of game
development. Of course, maybe wrapping curses IS the fun part for you,
in which case I say "Enjoy!". I look forward to seeing your game as it
progresses, since I already know it will run on my system. I'm
interested in discussing any .NET related issues you come up against.
You mention C#, so I assume that's what you are using in this project?
S.
Heroic Adventure
> twist...@gmail.invalid wrote:
>
>>Martin Read wrote:
>>
>>>Dude. Get a prescription for a strong anti-nausea drug; you're going to
>>>need it if you ever want to have non-zero market value in the software
>>>development business.
>>
>>Or work for Red Hat... :)
>
>
> Nope. You'll still see *lots* of bad code.
hah! RedHat wouldn't even hire him, they're a public traded company.
Their employees are actually expected to produce something other than
unfounded rhetoric and hyperbole.
Zero market value!
(killfiling does block most of his verbal vomit, but occasionally you
guys reply to him... so I get the occasional bile soaked nugget to play
with.)
Timothy Pruett
Ditto. Obviously Lochok isn't aware of the fact that .NET is in no
way "cross-platform". Mono is crippled and useless, and will never be
solid. There are plenty of *true* cross-platform languages available,
and why anyone would limit themselves to Windows-only garbage is
beyond me. In fact, now that I think about it, pretty much *every*
non-MS language is cross-platform with few exceptions. I can
successfully get my C++ SDL apps to compile on Windows and Linux with
zero code changes, and Java will run everywhere.
Lochok, for someone who claims he doesn't want to start a flamewar,
you sure as hell spread some flame-baiting bullshit. Try using
factual information next time, instead of rampant misinformation.
--
Read more about my three projects, SoulEaterRL,
Necropolis, and a little toy RL.
http://www.freewebs.com/timsrl/index.htm
--
simen....@gmail.com
using gdi, but it just doesnt give me the same feel as I think
roguelike should give. I'm using C#, yes. The project is actually just
in the design phase, and I'm wrapping up curses just to test the
graphical concepts, so I wouldnt bet on trying out the game for some
years :)
-Simen
Timothy Pruett
> simen....@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I have already wrapped up cursor movement, color, input and some of the
>> drawing functions. Perhaps I dont need much more? I havent used curses
>> before. My previous project used the regular c library.
>>
>> I didnt mean to start a flamewar here. I'm using .Net because I like
>> it. I used to be the man who thought 'If it doesnt compile to machine
>> code it sucks!', but after I started programming at work I realised I
>> didnt have time to code things in C, so I started using Lua and later
>> C#. I managed to keep deadlines better, so it's just my choice of
>> language at the time.
>>
>> I still havent started using 2.0 Waiting for the final release as I
>> dont think many people other than developers have 2.0 at the time.
>>
>> I want to use curses just because its curses and a lot of roguelikes
>> are using it.
>>
>> -Simen
>>
>
> As you pointed out, I don't imagine too many people are using 2.0 at
> this point other than developers, but by the time my game is ready I
> think they will be.
When are you expecting this change to take place? Not a criticism,
just curious, because it doesn't seem like the average end-user is
going to download 2.0 on their own anytime soon.
> Trust me, you didn't start a flamewar. Certain people harp on anything
> MS related, even if they are incapable of making a coherent point other
> than "MS bad!"
Not true. Most people bring up completely valid, coherent points,
whether or not you choose to acknowledge them. The only valid point
you can possibly have is, that you like it. I still find it to be
silly, in this day and age, to write any code in a 100% unportable
language. To not develop for multiple platforms is one thing, but to
make future ports impossible is just ridiculous. Whether you believe
so or not, there is a considerable Mac following, and a considerable
number of Linux users as well. They represent a growing portion of
the computer population.
If the reason you have for using .NET is because you just like it,
fine. Everyone has their own personal tastes. However, I've seen
some patently BS reasons for .NET development in the past, and it
irritates the hell out of me. If you like .NET, fine, but don't try
and justify it as being anything it's not.
> Using curses for the sake of curses seems counter-intuitive to me,
> coming from a developer background I want to take advantage of the tools
> that already exist, so I can concentrate on the fun parts of game
> development. Of course, maybe wrapping curses IS the fun part for you,
> in which case I say "Enjoy!". I look forward to seeing your game as it
> progresses, since I already know it will run on my system. I'm
> interested in discussing any .NET related issues you come up against.
> You mention C#, so I assume that's what you are using in this project?
Well, curses does have a particular "feel" to it that's hard to
emulate. If someone's searching for that terminal feel, curses is the
way to go. However, most people don't really want the terminal feel
nowadays, and C# would be a silly language to try and achieve that
feel in. If you want to use real curses, you're probably better off
sticking to C/C++, since those are the two languages that support it
the best. However, given your choice of a development platform, I'd
suggest using what tools are provided for you. Curses isn't one of them.
Christophe
> Ditto. Obviously Lochok isn't aware of the fact that .NET is in no way
> "cross-platform". Mono is crippled and useless, and will never be
> solid. There are plenty of *true* cross-platform languages available,
> and why anyone would limit themselves to Windows-only garbage is beyond
> me. In fact, now that I think about it, pretty much *every* non-MS
> language is cross-platform with few exceptions. I can successfully get
> my C++ SDL apps to compile on Windows and Linux with zero code changes,
> and Java will run everywhere.
Sorry but Java won't run everywhere. There is no Java VM available for
*BSD and for non x86 Linux.
The Sheep
simen....@gmail.com napisal(a):
>> Using curses for the sake of curses seems counter-intuitive to me,
>> coming from a developer background I want to take advantage of the tools
>> that already exist, so I can concentrate on the fun parts of game
>> development. Of course, maybe wrapping curses IS the fun part for you,
>> in which case I say "Enjoy!". I look forward to seeing your game as it
>> progresses, since I already know it will run on my system. I'm
>> interested in discussing any .NET related issues you come up against.
>> You mention C#, so I assume that's what you are using in this project?
> I'm actually using curses just to use curses :). I did a rendering
> using gdi, but it just doesnt give me the same feel as I think
> roguelike should give. I'm using C#, yes. The project is actually just
> in the design phase, and I'm wrapping up curses just to test the
> graphical concepts, so I wouldnt bet on trying out the game for some
> years :)
I don't want to be rude, or something, but could you please reply under
the text you're responding to and snip irrelevant parts?
It's much easier to read articles when they are written consistently, and
this seems to be established standard here.
No offense.
--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! The quest for the Real World:
`The Sheep' ('') 3 Try #2: goto -1
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvv.
The Sheep
Christophe napisal(a):
> Timothy Pruett a écrit :
> Sorry but Java won't run everywhere. There is no Java VM available for
> *BSD and for non x86 Linux.
Funny. I thought I've used java on a spark...
Didn't check the version, though.
Paul Murray
> Heroic Adventure wrote:
>> Trust me, you didn't start a flamewar. Certain people harp on anything
>> MS related, even if they are incapable of making a coherent point other
>> than "MS bad!"
> Not true. Most people bring up completely valid, coherent points,
> whether or not you choose to acknowledge them. The only valid point
Absolutley true.
Neo will respond to any post mentioning .NET with a standard '.NET is evil'
position. *Other* people may make sensible criticisms, but it is true that
"Certain people harp on anything MS related", which was the statement made.
The particular response was:
"No. Nothing at all associated with .Net can be beneficial, except maybe
to Bill Gates & cronies."
Sounds like that fits into the "MS bad!" category.
Christophe Cavalaria
> Dnia Fri, 27 May 2005 15:48:01 +0200,
> Christophe napisal(a):
>
>> Timothy Pruett a écrit :
>> Sorry but Java won't run everywhere. There is no Java VM available for
>> *BSD and for non x86 Linux.
> Funny. I thought I've used java on a spark...
> Didn't check the version, though.
Check the download page for the JRE for the compatibility list. I'll have to
admit I was wrong : the sun JVM can also work on Linux Itanium.
Also, it seems that no MacOS is on the supported list at all.
Sherm Pendley
> Also, it seems that no MacOS is on the supported list at all.
Java support for Mac comes from Apple, not Sun.
<http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/java/>
sherm--
--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Gerry Quinn
<lochok_at_optusnet.com.au> says...
> Whether or not you like it and believe it is right (I don't) Windows is
> still, and it appears will remain the primary OS for the average user -
> there is still not much of a Non-MS Base. And if you want a game to be
> playable in the long-term - as I'd assume many people would, .NET is the
> only credible option. By not allowing a Windows format, you are not doing
> anything other then denying many people the opportunity to play your game
> and with upcoming version(s) of Windows, it appears that with Win32 support,
> its only a matter of time before it is out of use. After all - it is already
> being phased out. Java's life-span is beginning to appear limited, but it
> has since its conception and seems to just keep hanging in there.
Win32 isn't going to be phased out any decade soon.
I recently read a report that Longhorn (next Windows) is mainly relying
on this rather than .Net.
Bill Gates is not stupid - he knows that legacy software is an
important part of Windows success. That's why Windows XP has a DOS
emulator (many DOS games break because of the way they hit the
hardware, not such a serious issue outside DOS). That's why Win16
software runs just fine. That's why if Win32 is phased out around
2020, your new Windows PC will have a Win32 emulator that runs your
roguelikes perfectly well.
- Gerry Quinn
Lochok
> sure as hell spread some flame-baiting bullshit. Try using factual
> information next time, instead of rampant misinformation.
My deepest apologies, I must have been hypnotised by MS - I've kept an open
mind and have been proven to be wrong
Lochok
because of the Microsoft Tag. Once in a while, the come up with some fairly
reasonable ideas
Timothy Pruett
The problem is, most of their reasonable ideas are somebody else's
ideas, and the implementation is frequently anything but reasonable.
Every other OS strives to achieve some level of compatibility with all
other systems. Microsoft OS's never do, deliberately. Generally,
when I see a system that purposely tries to break all chances of
compatibility, I tend to consider it bad. There's just no excuse for
their monopolizing, unethical, poor excuse for a business. The worst
part is the fact that their implementations of, well, anything, tend
to get out-performed by every competitor.
But, yes, most people should honestly evaluate something before they
say it's crap. Which, most computer-savvy people have, and can still
conclude that most MS products are, indeed, crap.
Heroic Adventure
> When are you expecting this change to take place? Not a criticism, just
> curious, because it doesn't seem like the average end-user is going to
> download 2.0 on their own anytime soon.
Well, I don't foresee HA! being finished any time soon, for starters,
but considering the 2.0 framework is still in beta at this point it's no
great surprise that the average end-user hasn't downloaded it yet. Lots
of things that seemed far off or unlikely once... have long since come
to pass. :)
>> Trust me, you didn't start a flamewar. Certain people harp on anything
>> MS related, even if they are incapable of making a coherent point
>> other than "MS bad!"
>
>
> Not true. Most people bring up completely valid, coherent points,
> whether or not you choose to acknowledge them. The only valid point you
> can possibly have is, that you like it. I still find it to be silly, in
I didn't say most people, I said "certain" people. That's a far cry from
"most". I'm talking about the ones who respond blindly to anything MS
related (and they know who they are) with a stream of drivel that will
most certainly prolong their stay in the unemployment line. I may
disagree with a lot of what you say, but at least your posts show signs
of intelligent life behind them.
> this day and age, to write any code in a 100% unportable language. To
> not develop for multiple platforms is one thing, but to make future
> ports impossible is just ridiculous. Whether you believe so or not,
> there is a considerable Mac following, and a considerable number of
> Linux users as well. They represent a growing portion of the computer
> population.
never denied that Linux is growing, and I've owned a couple of Linux
machines at one point or another, but I still feel they have a long way
to go. As for Mac, I can't give an informed opinion on their marketshare
because I'm just not into macs. There's really no obvious advantage for
me to develop for them.
> If the reason you have for using .NET is because you just like it,
> fine. Everyone has their own personal tastes. However, I've seen some
> patently BS reasons for .NET development in the past, and it irritates
> the hell out of me. If you like .NET, fine, but don't try and justify
> it as being anything it's not.
If you've ever read any of my posts in the past, you know I don't try to
justify anything to anyone. .NET is my development platform of choice,
just as Windows is my OS. I don't try to convince anyone otherwise.
(Mostly because I don't care...) HA! is my pet project and anyone who
wants to play it is welcome to. I'm not going to try and convince you or
anyone else to switch OS'es or download a 20+ meg runtime.
My position has ALWAYS been "if you have the framework, and you like
Roguelike games, feel free to give HA! a try". Most of the time, I have
been met with bucketloads of piss and vinegar from the people in THIS
group, but oddly nowhere else. Could be because most (all?) of the
people I work and socialize with happen to use my OS of choice and a
large percentage of them also happen to have the .NET framework installed.
Regardless of the strength of your convictions, most of the OS-zealots
in this forum are in the minority. I certainly don't come here for
advice on What OS to use, or what lang to program in. I come here to
discuss the CONCEPTS involved in creating a roguelike game. I seldom
(almost never) ask for help on a specific programming related problem in
here, because I know I won't get the answer in here. I do, however,
have a reasonable expectation of being able to ask questions about
inventory management, random level design, game balance, magic systems,
monster AI and that sort of thing, preferably without being dismissed
out of hand based on my choice of OS.
S.
Heroic Adventure
See now, I was trying to avoid the N word...
S.
Timothy Pruett
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>
>> When are you expecting this change to take place? Not a criticism,
>> just curious, because it doesn't seem like the average end-user is
>> going to download 2.0 on their own anytime soon.
>
>
> Well, I don't foresee HA! being finished any time soon, for starters,
> but considering the 2.0 framework is still in beta at this point it's no
> great surprise that the average end-user hasn't downloaded it yet. Lots
> of things that seemed far off or unlikely once... have long since come
> to pass. :)
True.
>>> Trust me, you didn't start a flamewar. Certain people harp on
>>> anything MS related, even if they are incapable of making a coherent
>>> point other than "MS bad!"
>>
>>
>>
>> Not true. Most people bring up completely valid, coherent points,
>> whether or not you choose to acknowledge them. The only valid point
>> you can possibly have is, that you like it. I still find it to be
>> silly, in
>
>
> I didn't say most people, I said "certain" people. That's a far cry from
> "most". I'm talking about the ones who respond blindly to anything MS
> related (and they know who they are) with a stream of drivel that will
> most certainly prolong their stay in the unemployment line. I may
> disagree with a lot of what you say, but at least your posts show signs
> of intelligent life behind them.
My apologies. I didn't take notice of the word "certain". I have a
pretty good feeling of the specific individual you're referring to,
and it's an unfortunate case. More people should try to back up their
beliefs with facts and valid arguments, instead of mindless bashing.
This applies to people on all sides.
>> this day and age, to write any code in a 100% unportable language. To
>> not develop for multiple platforms is one thing, but to make future
>> ports impossible is just ridiculous. Whether you believe so or not,
>> there is a considerable Mac following, and a considerable number of
>> Linux users as well. They represent a growing portion of the computer
>> population.
>
>
> never denied that Linux is growing, and I've owned a couple of Linux
> machines at one point or another, but I still feel they have a long way
> to go. As for Mac, I can't give an informed opinion on their marketshare
> because I'm just not into macs. There's really no obvious advantage for
> me to develop for them.
I never really suggested you develop for Linux or Mac. I did,
however, comment on how silly it seems to purposely limit yourself to
one platform, so that future ports would be impossible. A lot of
games are developed for Windows only, or Linux only, but if the game
is good enough, fans (or sometimes the developer himself) will port it
to other platforms, so that more people can enjoy it.
C# and VB are rarities in the programming world, due to their 100%
lack of portability. But, like I've said before, even though I find
it silly and confusing, everyone has there own tastes in languages,
and there's no point in feeling pressured to change languages just
because others don't like it. I was really just expressing my
opinion, not suggesting you abandon your language of choice. I
thought the treatment you recieved before over using .NET was uncalled
for and shameful. People tend to get too worked up over their
OS/language of choice, and can't handle honest discussions over it
without resorting to hostilities and name-calling. It's a shame.
>> If the reason you have for using .NET is because you just like it,
>> fine. Everyone has their own personal tastes. However, I've seen
>> some patently BS reasons for .NET development in the past, and it
>> irritates the hell out of me. If you like .NET, fine, but don't try
>> and justify it as being anything it's not.
>
>
> If you've ever read any of my posts in the past, you know I don't try to
> justify anything to anyone. .NET is my development platform of choice,
> just as Windows is my OS. I don't try to convince anyone otherwise.
> (Mostly because I don't care...) HA! is my pet project and anyone who
> wants to play it is welcome to. I'm not going to try and convince you or
> anyone else to switch OS'es or download a 20+ meg runtime.
I know. My post wasn't really directed at you, but more of a general
commentary on the whole thing. Frankly, I find the way you've handled
it to be rather refreshing, since a lot of people don't act as mature
about it. Way too many people try and force their project down your
throat, and resort to name-calling and insults if you show any
apprehension towards downloading their necessary runtime environment,
be it .NET, JRE, or whatever.
> My position has ALWAYS been "if you have the framework, and you like
> Roguelike games, feel free to give HA! a try". Most of the time, I have
> been met with bucketloads of piss and vinegar from the people in THIS
> group, but oddly nowhere else. Could be because most (all?) of the
> people I work and socialize with happen to use my OS of choice and a
> large percentage of them also happen to have the .NET framework installed.
It's a shame that so many people get worked up over software. I
appreciate discussion over the matter as much as the next guy, but the
level of maturity shown by many people, on both sides of the issue, is
just appalling.
> Regardless of the strength of your convictions, most of the OS-zealots
> in this forum are in the minority. I certainly don't come here for
> advice on What OS to use, or what lang to program in. I come here to
> discuss the CONCEPTS involved in creating a roguelike game. I seldom
> (almost never) ask for help on a specific programming related problem in
> here, because I know I won't get the answer in here. I do, however,
> have a reasonable expectation of being able to ask questions about
> inventory management, random level design, game balance, magic systems,
> monster AI and that sort of thing, preferably without being dismissed
> out of hand based on my choice of OS.
I don't, and never will, consider myself an OS-zealot. I don't like
Windows, and possibly never will, due to repeated, bad personal
experience with it. Unlike a lot of people, I have no religious zeal
towards any language, OS, software, or whatever. I'm sure when
Longhorn comes out, I'll try that too, before I judge whether or not
it's bad. It's a pity more people can't do the same. Anyways, I
think the hostility you recieved in the past over .NET was terrible.
In the meantime, I do hope that in the future, you can find the help
you need here, without another barrage of crap coming at you.
simen....@gmail.com
doing a lot of things for the future of software, but yes, there are
plenty of things to be angry about. I think its time to stop all this
nonsense. If people want their software to be good, portable and fast,
use c. I for my sake are now making software that does not need to be
fast nor portable. I'm making a simple game in my spare time. I've had
this discussion very many times, and I think it's getting too tired. I
know people who use python, and makes it run faster than people running
C. Lets just accept that there are thousands of programming lanuages,
and that different people like different solutions.
I have been reading this newsgroup for many years now, and I almost
never post anything here, but a discussion about languages belong in
forums where newbies belong. I know that everybody here is very
talented, and thats why I have been reading this newgroups for years.
Many of the people here are champions in my eyes, but I just cant stand
hearing about the pathetic reasons for hating languages anymore.
I used to be one of these guys. Anything that wasnt compiled into
machine code sucked big time. Times has changed, and I think its time
to move on. I've learned a hell of a lot from all the people here, but
I think its time we concider other languages than c or c++.
I've seen some really amazing things done in roguelike games the last
few years, and I'm really astonished! I wished I had just a fractal of
your skilles, but sometimes - when I see post from you - I'm pretty
happy I'm not that arrogant!
You are all very, very talented people, and I cant begin to explain how
much this newgroup has helped me in getting a job in programming. So
just people know, I might not remeber this, but stilll I will remember
salluting you all for your general help and motivation! And I think its
very sad that hajo stopped working on H-World.. His project, and ADOM,
was one of the reasons I wanted to make my own roguelike.
I hope you wont hold this against me, because I'm wasted as I'm writing
this...
Timothy Pruett
> I'm getting tired of the constant hitting against Microsoft. They are
> doing a lot of things for the future of software, but yes, there are
> plenty of things to be angry about. I think its time to stop all this
> nonsense. If people want their software to be good, portable and fast,
> use c. I for my sake are now making software that does not need to be
> fast nor portable. I'm making a simple game in my spare time. I've had
> this discussion very many times, and I think it's getting too tired. I
> know people who use python, and makes it run faster than people running
> C. Lets just accept that there are thousands of programming lanuages,
> and that different people like different solutions.
You're arguing two unrelated points. In most cases, OS holy wars and
language holy wars are completely unrelated. The only Microsoft
bashing that gets thrown around in language wars are over VB and C#,
but that doesn't happen that often because most people don't use
either of those. And honestly, I don't see a whole lot of people
bashing any languages just because they're interpreted.
> I have been reading this newsgroup for many years now, and I almost
> never post anything here, but a discussion about languages belong in
> forums where newbies belong. I know that everybody here is very
> talented, and thats why I have been reading this newgroups for years.
> Many of the people here are champions in my eyes, but I just cant stand
> hearing about the pathetic reasons for hating languages anymore.
Most people don't discuss their "pathetic reasons for hating
languages". Most people here program in several languages, and have
no problem with most languages, unless they've A) programmed in that
language, and know from experience that they dislike it, or B) it's an
unportable piece of junk, which makes it useless to many coders.
> I used to be one of these guys. Anything that wasnt compiled into
> machine code sucked big time. Times has changed, and I think its time
> to move on. I've learned a hell of a lot from all the people here, but
> I think its time we concider other languages than c or c++.
Who here bashes interpreted languages, just because they're
interpreted? In this day and age, the overhead of using an
interpreted language is minimal on most machines. There are plenty of
developers here who use Java, Pascal, and Python, as well as other
oddball languages, all of which don't compile into machine code. And
since when has anyone here *ever* said that only C/C++ are good languages?
> I've seen some really amazing things done in roguelike games the last
> few years, and I'm really astonished! I wished I had just a fractal of
> your skilles, but sometimes - when I see post from you - I'm pretty
> happy I'm not that arrogant!
I would only consider a select few individuals to be "that arrogant".
By the way, perhaps you should try and provide some focus to your
posts, instead of rambling on like this.
> You are all very, very talented people, and I cant begin to explain how
> much this newgroup has helped me in getting a job in programming. So
> just people know, I might not remeber this, but stilll I will remember
> salluting you all for your general help and motivation! And I think its
> very sad that hajo stopped working on H-World.. His project, and ADOM,
> was one of the reasons I wanted to make my own roguelike.
Well, H-World is open-source now, so it will live on as long as enough
dedicated coders exist to make use of it.
> I hope you wont hold this against me, because I'm wasted as I'm writing
> this...
Ah, that explains your rambling, incoherent nonsense. Perhaps being
"wasted" isn't the ideal state to be in, when you're getting ready to
write something?
simen....@gmail.com
Heroic Adventure
> Heroic Adventure wrote:
>>
>> machines at one point or another, but I still feel they have a long
>> way to go. As for Mac, I can't give an informed opinion on their
>> marketshare because I'm just not into macs. There's really no obvious
>> advantage for me to develop for them.
>
> I never really suggested you develop for Linux or Mac. I did, however,
> comment on how silly it seems to purposely limit yourself to one
> platform, so that future ports would be impossible. A lot of games are
> developed for Windows only, or Linux only, but if the game is good
> enough, fans (or sometimes the developer himself) will port it to other
> platforms, so that more people can enjoy it.
Well I don't feel I purposefully limited myself. I just chose the
language I knew best, so I could be the most productive in my efforts.
It's also worth mentioning that a Linux/Mac port may not be that far off
actually. I've been during some additional research on two fronts, Mono
(which has a working VB.NET compiler and I just downloaded a Live CD iso
to play with) and a new entry into the battle... Mainsoft (they have a
product called Grasshopper which can compile C# and possibly VB.NET code
to run in a Java VM)
> C# and VB are rarities in the programming world, due to their 100% lack
> of portability. But, like I've said before, even though I find it silly
> and confusing, everyone has there own tastes in languages, and there's
> no point in feeling pressured to change languages just because others
> don't like it. I was really just expressing my opinion, not suggesting
> you abandon your language of choice. I thought the treatment you
> recieved before over using .NET was uncalled for and shameful. People
me too ;)
> tend to get too worked up over their OS/language of choice, and can't
> handle honest discussions over it without resorting to hostilities and
> name-calling. It's a shame.
yeah and sadly it's a trend that's unlikely to disappear anytime soon.
>> If you've ever read any of my posts in the past, you know I don't try
>> to justify anything to anyone. .NET is my development platform of
>> choice, just as Windows is my OS. I don't try to convince anyone
>> otherwise. (Mostly because I don't care...) HA! is my pet project and
>> anyone who wants to play it is welcome to. I'm not going to try and
>> convince you or anyone else to switch OS'es or download a 20+ meg
>> runtime.
>
> I know. My post wasn't really directed at you, but more of a general
> commentary on the whole thing. Frankly, I find the way you've handled
> it to be rather refreshing, since a lot of people don't act as mature
> about it. Way too many people try and force their project down your
> throat, and resort to name-calling and insults if you show any
> apprehension towards downloading their necessary runtime environment, be
> it .NET, JRE, or whatever.
Yeah I know, just as my post wasn't entirely directed at you, you just
happen to be the one I'm talking to.
>> Regardless of the strength of your convictions, most of the OS-zealots
>> in this forum are in the minority. I certainly don't come here for
>> advice on What OS to use, or what lang to program in. I come here to
>> discuss the CONCEPTS involved in creating a roguelike game. I seldom
>> (almost never) ask for help on a specific programming related problem
>> in here, because I know I won't get the answer in here. I do,
>> however, have a reasonable expectation of being able to ask questions
>> about inventory management, random level design, game balance, magic
>> systems, monster AI and that sort of thing, preferably without being
>> dismissed out of hand based on my choice of OS.
>
> I don't, and never will, consider myself an OS-zealot. I don't like
that was supposed to read "strength of their convictions", not "your
convictions"
> Windows, and possibly never will, due to repeated, bad personal
> experience with it. Unlike a lot of people, I have no religious zeal
> towards any language, OS, software, or whatever. I'm sure when Longhorn
> comes out, I'll try that too, before I judge whether or not it's bad.
> It's a pity more people can't do the same. Anyways, I think the
> hostility you recieved in the past over .NET was terrible. In the
> meantime, I do hope that in the future, you can find the help you need
> here, without another barrage of crap coming at you.
For the most part, I've managed to figure out answers to my game
problems without help from this group, but I do draw inspiration from
seeing what others are working on and from the various articles people
like Bear(?) post. The main reason I even post here (90% of the time) is
so people can draw the same benefit from me, by checking out what I'm
working on as well. I know my lang of choice is in the minority among RL
developers, so I usually don't bother posting code, but I'm always
interested in theory & implementation discussions.
It's kinda funny, I've been reading this group for several years (well
before I started HA!) and when I first got abused by the other regulars
for using .NET, my response was an angry one (yes I'm the one who posted
"if you don't have anything useful to add, like an answer to my original
question, kindly consider shutting the hell up") but in return I was the
one criticized for being rude to DarkGod, Copx or whoever it was (memory
fails me). Yet I still come here... almost everyday.
Now it doesn't anger me, I just killfile the truly pointless ones. Life
goes on, so does my game. I'm always up for intelligent discussion, and
I'm willing to listen to opposing points, as long as they show some
degree of thought or research, and aren't delivered in an infantile manner.
ABCGi
*SNIP*
> You are all very, very talented people, and I cant begin to explain how
> much this newgroup has helped me in getting a job in programming. So
> just people know, I might not remeber this, but stilll I will remember
> salluting you all for your general help and motivation! And I think its
> very sad that hajo stopped working on H-World.. His project, and ADOM,
> was one of the reasons I wanted to make my own roguelike.
Cool. H-World is on source forge now thanks to Hajo, it was
sad, but there is still hope (as they say in Star Wars!).
So not only can you write a straight forward stable RL module
with the engine (it is more than capable of that currently)
you can also check-out the source code... which I've been
playing with the last couple of days - it is quite impressive
and therefore a worthwhile exercise in itself.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/h-world/
There is a "simple" 2D module (not iso) I have added to CVS
that you could use as the base for your "own roguelike", even
if it were just a small one. If someone were to do that it
would help the project.
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/h-world/h-world/simple/
Install h-world distro and extract simple to the main dir and
run "h-world.exe -game simple" to play.
> I hope you wont hold this against me, because I'm wasted as I'm writing
> this...
Been there - never a good idea :)
--
ABCGi ---- (ab...@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
Fun RLs in rgrd that I have tested recently!
DoomRL - DwellerMobile - HWorld - AburaTan - DiabloRL
Heroic Adventure - Powder - CastlevaniaRL - TheTombs
Kornel Kisielewicz
> simen....@gmail.com wrote:
>> I used to be one of these guys. Anything that wasnt compiled into
>> machine code sucked big time. Times has changed, and I think its time
>> to move on. I've learned a hell of a lot from all the people here, but
>> I think its time we concider other languages than c or c++.
>
>
> Who here bashes interpreted languages, just because they're
> interpreted? In this day and age, the overhead of using an interpreted
> language is minimal on most machines. There are plenty of developers
> here who use Java, Pascal, and Python, as well as other oddball
> languages, all of which don't compile into machine code.
Erm... but Pascal compiles into machine code :-). It's a normal
assembled language like C...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"The development cycle for roguelikes never ends..." -- Joseph
Hewitt
The Sheep
Kornel Kisielewicz napisal(a):
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>> simen....@gmail.com wrote:
>> Who here bashes interpreted languages, just because they're
>> interpreted? In this day and age, the overhead of using an interpreted
>> language is minimal on most machines. There are plenty of developers
>> here who use Java, Pascal, and Python, as well as other oddball
>> languages, all of which don't compile into machine code.
> Erm... but Pascal compiles into machine code :-). It's a normal
> assembled language like C...
It may be. I've also seen some C interpreters.
--
Radomir 'The Sheep' Dopieralski @**@_ Bee!
(^^) 3
The Quest for the Real World, try #1: cd /..
Timothy Pruett
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>
>> simen....@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I used to be one of these guys. Anything that wasnt compiled into
>>> machine code sucked big time. Times has changed, and I think its time
>>> to move on. I've learned a hell of a lot from all the people here, but
>>> I think its time we concider other languages than c or c++.
>>
>>
>>
>> Who here bashes interpreted languages, just because they're
>> interpreted? In this day and age, the overhead of using an
>> interpreted language is minimal on most machines. There are plenty of
>> developers here who use Java, Pascal, and Python, as well as other
>> oddball languages, all of which don't compile into machine code.
>
>
> Erm... but Pascal compiles into machine code :-). It's a normal
> assembled language like C...
Oops, my bad. I've never really used Pascal, but was under the
impression that it's an interpreted language.
Kornel Kisielewicz
> Dnia Sun, 29 May 2005 17:40:19 +0200,
> Kornel Kisielewicz napisal(a):
>>Timothy Pruett wrote:
>>
>>>simen....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>Who here bashes interpreted languages, just because they're
>>>interpreted? In this day and age, the overhead of using an interpreted
>>>language is minimal on most machines. There are plenty of developers
>>>here who use Java, Pascal, and Python, as well as other oddball
>>>languages, all of which don't compile into machine code.
>
>>Erm... but Pascal compiles into machine code :-). It's a normal
>>assembled language like C...
>
> It may be. I've also seen some C interpreters.
I know. I've also heard of a crazy idea on the FPC-Dev list to make
FreePascal compile to (sic!) .NET...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"A random group of people is useless for anything except
statistics" -- Anubis
Timothy Pruett
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>
>> Heroic Adventure wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> never denied that Linux is growing, and I've owned a couple of Linux
>>> machines at one point or another, but I still feel they have a long
>>> way to go. As for Mac, I can't give an informed opinion on their
>>> marketshare because I'm just not into macs. There's really no obvious
>>> advantage for me to develop for them.
>>
>>
>> I never really suggested you develop for Linux or Mac. I did,
>> however, comment on how silly it seems to purposely limit yourself to
>> one platform, so that future ports would be impossible. A lot of
>> games are developed for Windows only, or Linux only, but if the game
>> is good enough, fans (or sometimes the developer himself) will port it
>> to other platforms, so that more people can enjoy it.
>
>
> Well I don't feel I purposefully limited myself. I just chose the
> language I knew best, so I could be the most productive in my efforts.
Makes sense. Even though it's not my cup of tea, I can certainly
understand someone wanting to work in the language their best with.
> It's also worth mentioning that a Linux/Mac port may not be that far off
> actually. I've been during some additional research on two fronts, Mono
> (which has a working VB.NET compiler and I just downloaded a Live CD iso
> to play with) and a new entry into the battle... Mainsoft (they have a
> product called Grasshopper which can compile C# and possibly VB.NET code
> to run in a Java VM)
>
>> C# and VB are rarities in the programming world, due to their 100%
>> lack of portability. But, like I've said before, even though I find
>> it silly and confusing, everyone has there own tastes in languages,
>> and there's no point in feeling pressured to change languages just
>> because others don't like it. I was really just expressing my
>> opinion, not suggesting you abandon your language of choice. I
>> thought the treatment you recieved before over using .NET was uncalled
>> for and shameful. People
>
>
> me too ;)
>
>> tend to get too worked up over their OS/language of choice, and can't
>> handle honest discussions over it without resorting to hostilities and
>> name-calling. It's a shame.
>
>
> yeah and sadly it's a trend that's unlikely to disappear anytime soon.
And that's what we have the killfile for. ;-)
>>> If you've ever read any of my posts in the past, you know I don't try
>>> to justify anything to anyone. .NET is my development platform of
>>> choice, just as Windows is my OS. I don't try to convince anyone
>>> otherwise. (Mostly because I don't care...) HA! is my pet project and
>>> anyone who wants to play it is welcome to. I'm not going to try and
>>> convince you or anyone else to switch OS'es or download a 20+ meg
>>> runtime.
>>
>>
>> I know. My post wasn't really directed at you, but more of a general
>> commentary on the whole thing. Frankly, I find the way you've handled
>> it to be rather refreshing, since a lot of people don't act as mature
>> about it. Way too many people try and force their project down your
>> throat, and resort to name-calling and insults if you show any
>> apprehension towards downloading their necessary runtime environment,
>> be it .NET, JRE, or whatever.
>
>
> Yeah I know, just as my post wasn't entirely directed at you, you just
> happen to be the one I'm talking to.
Okie-dokie.
>>> Regardless of the strength of your convictions, most of the
>>> OS-zealots in this forum are in the minority. I certainly don't come
>>> here for advice on What OS to use, or what lang to program in. I come
>>> here to discuss the CONCEPTS involved in creating a roguelike game. I
>>> seldom (almost never) ask for help on a specific programming related
>>> problem in here, because I know I won't get the answer in here. I
>>> do, however, have a reasonable expectation of being able to ask
>>> questions about inventory management, random level design, game
>>> balance, magic systems, monster AI and that sort of thing, preferably
>>> without being dismissed out of hand based on my choice of OS.
>>
>>
>> I don't, and never will, consider myself an OS-zealot. I don't like
>
>
> that was supposed to read "strength of their convictions", not "your
> convictions"
I see. I probably should have read between the lines a bit more. My bad.
>> Windows, and possibly never will, due to repeated, bad personal
>> experience with it. Unlike a lot of people, I have no religious zeal
>> towards any language, OS, software, or whatever. I'm sure when
>> Longhorn comes out, I'll try that too, before I judge whether or not
>> it's bad. It's a pity more people can't do the same. Anyways, I
>> think the hostility you recieved in the past over .NET was terrible.
>> In the meantime, I do hope that in the future, you can find the help
>> you need here, without another barrage of crap coming at you.
>
>
> For the most part, I've managed to figure out answers to my game
> problems without help from this group, but I do draw inspiration from
> seeing what others are working on and from the various articles people
> like Bear(?) post. The main reason I even post here (90% of the time) is
> so people can draw the same benefit from me, by checking out what I'm
> working on as well. I know my lang of choice is in the minority among RL
> developers, so I usually don't bother posting code, but I'm always
> interested in theory & implementation discussions.
Being in the minority shouldn't stop you from posting code. Most
people here are competent in several languages, and can read and
understand most code written in any language. Plenty of people here
are in the minority, like the pair of Pascal folk, and The Sheep's
Python 7DRL. But languages are just ways of expressing thoughts and
algorithms, and everyone here can learn from such things. I really
wish more people here posted handy code snippets, regardless of their
language or choice.
> It's kinda funny, I've been reading this group for several years (well
> before I started HA!) and when I first got abused by the other regulars
> for using .NET, my response was an angry one (yes I'm the one who posted
> "if you don't have anything useful to add, like an answer to my original
> question, kindly consider shutting the hell up") but in return I was the
> one criticized for being rude to DarkGod, Copx or whoever it was (memory
> fails me). Yet I still come here... almost everyday.
We've all been there before, at some time or another.
> Now it doesn't anger me, I just killfile the truly pointless ones. Life
> goes on, so does my game. I'm always up for intelligent discussion, and
> I'm willing to listen to opposing points, as long as they show some
> degree of thought or research, and aren't delivered in an infantile manner.
Ditto.
Kornel Kisielewicz
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> Erm... but Pascal compiles into machine code :-). It's a normal
>> assembled language like C...
>
> Oops, my bad. I've never really used Pascal, but was under the
> impression that it's an interpreted language.
Oh my, what an embarassment :-). You know, Pascal is a year older then
C, and an intrepreted language would never survive in those days ;-).
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
My opinions are my own. Share them at your own risk.
Timothy Pruett
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>
>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>
>>> Erm... but Pascal compiles into machine code :-). It's a normal
>>> assembled language like C...
>>
>>
>> Oops, my bad. I've never really used Pascal, but was under the
>> impression that it's an interpreted language.
>
>
> Oh my, what an embarassment :-). You know, Pascal is a year older then
> C, and an intrepreted language would never survive in those days ;-).
Lisp survived, and it's ancient.
Kornel Kisielewicz
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>>
>>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>>
>>>> Erm... but Pascal compiles into machine code :-). It's a normal
>>>> assembled language like C...
>>>
>>> Oops, my bad. I've never really used Pascal, but was under the
>>> impression that it's an interpreted language.
>>
>> Oh my, what an embarassment :-). You know, Pascal is a year older then
>> C, and an intrepreted language would never survive in those days ;-).
>
> Lisp survived, and it's ancient.
Ok, sorry, point taken :-)
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Some thing's just cannot be programmed in a roguelike. For
everything else, there's GenRogue" -- Anubis
Risto Saarelma
> Timothy Pruett wrote:
>> Oops, my bad. I've never really used Pascal, but was under the
>> impression that it's an interpreted language.
>
> Oh my, what an embarassment :-). You know, Pascal is a year older then
> C, and an intrepreted language would never survive in those days ;-).
Didn't the original design for Pascal involve producing "P-code" for a
special virtual machine instead of compilation into native code?
--
Risto Saarelma
Kornel Kisielewicz
Yup, also true.
R. Dan Henry
<spamb...@heroicadventure.com> wrote:
>Paul Murray wrote:
>> Absolutley true.
>> Neo will respond to any post mentioning .NET with a standard '.NET is evil'
>> position. *Other* people may make sensible criticisms, but it is true that
>> "Certain people harp on anything MS related", which was the statement made.
>>
>> The particular response was:
>> "No. Nothing at all associated with .Net can be beneficial, except maybe
>> to Bill Gates & cronies."
>>
>> Sounds like that fits into the "MS bad!" category.
>>
>
>See now, I was trying to avoid the N word...
Well, "Neo" has no character to it and as I've said, I can't be
bothered to keep up with nymshifting, so I've gone back to one of his
earlier pseudonyms, Numerous Boogers, and shortened it down to
Boogers. It isn't as descriptively apt as Idiot Boy, but I'm ready to
lay aside that label as confrontational. And, seeing as how he appears
to have been taught by his "mother" to use his killfile, therefore
proving he actually *has* a learning curve, I'm willing to concede
he's earned a better label. So avoid the N word and call him Boogers.
--
R. Dan Henry = danh...@inreach.com
Dance, Puppet, dance!
But why are there *humans* dancing for the puppet?
Kornel Kisielewicz
> simen....@gmail.com wrote:
> There is a "simple" 2D module (not iso) I have added to CVS
> that you could use as the base for your "own roguelike", even
> if it were just a small one. If someone were to do that it
> would help the project.
>
> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/h-world/h-world/simple/
>
> Install h-world distro and extract simple to the main dir and
> run "h-world.exe -game simple" to play.
How to download a directory from the CVS?
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Shadows universe is non-heroic, unfair, cruel and designed to
start playing on your nerves and sanity." -- Anubis
The Sheep
Kornel Kisielewicz napisal(a):
> ABCGi wrote:
>> simen....@gmail.com wrote:
>> There is a "simple" 2D module (not iso) I have added to CVS
>> that you could use as the base for your "own roguelike", even
>> if it were just a small one. If someone were to do that it
>> would help the project.
>>
>> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/h-world/h-world/simple/
>>
>> Install h-world distro and extract simple to the main dir and
>> run "h-world.exe -game simple" to play.
>
> How to download a directory from the CVS?
cvs up <name of the directory>
--
Radomir `The Sheep' Dopieralski @**@_
(`') 3 Grrr!
. . . ..v.vVvVVvVvv.v.. .
Kornel Kisielewicz
> Dnia Thu, 02 Jun 2005 17:06:48 +0200,
> Kornel Kisielewicz napisal(a):
>
>
>>ABCGi wrote:
>>
>>>simen....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>There is a "simple" 2D module (not iso) I have added to CVS
>>>that you could use as the base for your "own roguelike", even
>>>if it were just a small one. If someone were to do that it
>>>would help the project.
>>>
>>>http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/h-world/h-world/simple/
>>>
>>>Install h-world distro and extract simple to the main dir and
>>>run "h-world.exe -game simple" to play.
>>
>>How to download a directory from the CVS?
>
> cvs up <name of the directory>
On linux I would know ;-)
But I have neither access to Linux nor cygwin. Ok, I guess Google's my
friend, and I can get some cvs binaries?
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"It must be excellent code -- Mistress Compiler would not have
it any other way." -- Twisted One
Kornel Kisielewicz
> The Sheep wrote:
>
>> Dnia Thu, 02 Jun 2005 17:06:48 +0200,
>> Kornel Kisielewicz napisal(a):
>>
>>
>>> ABCGi wrote:
>>>
>>>> simen....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> There is a "simple" 2D module (not iso) I have added to CVS
>>>> that you could use as the base for your "own roguelike", even
>>>> if it were just a small one. If someone were to do that it
>>>> would help the project.
>>>>
>>>> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/h-world/h-world/simple/
>>>>
>>>> Install h-world distro and extract simple to the main dir and
>>>> run "h-world.exe -game simple" to play.
>>>
>>>
>>> How to download a directory from the CVS?
>>
>>
>> cvs up <name of the directory>
>
>
> On linux I would know ;-)
> But I have neither access to Linux nor cygwin. Ok, I guess Google's my
> friend, and I can get some cvs binaries?
Ok, I've downloaded the files. But whgen I run "h-world.exe -game
simple" I get:
C:\Documents and Settings\Kornel
Kisielewicz.CHAOS\Pulpit\h-world>H-World.exe -game simple
Message: log_t::log_t: Starting logging to stderr
FATAL ERROR: read_colorshades(): cannot open file
Aborting program execution ...
Please report all fatal errors to
hansjoerg...@gmx.de
This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual
way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.
?
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Kornel just won't release the code because his compiler is a jealous
mistress and doesn't want any of Kornel's code ever being touched by
another woman. ;)" -- Twisted One
ABCGi
Ha my first bug report. Latest version of engine
must of broken 'simple' module - I will fix, repost
to CVS and then post here :)
Thanks!
--
ABCGi ---- (ab...@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
..Hajo's H-World - RogueLike/RPG Engine SourceForge Project...
.......Downloads - https://sourceforge.net/projects/h-world...
............Home - http://h-world.simugraph.com...............
Kornel Kisielewicz
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> C:\Documents and Settings\Kornel
>> Kisielewicz.CHAOS\Pulpit\h-world>H-World.exe -game simple
>> Message: log_t::log_t: Starting logging to stderr
>> FATAL ERROR: read_colorshades(): cannot open file
>> Aborting program execution ...
>>
>> Please report all fatal errors to
>> hansjoerg...@gmx.de
>>
>> This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an
>> unusual way.
>> Please contact the application's support team for more information.
>> ?
>
>
> Ha my first bug report. Latest version of engine
> must of broken 'simple' module - I will fix, repost
> to CVS and then post here :)
I rather think it's my problem, for I get that message when running
*any* module except default. And trying to change directory name of
simple to default doesn't help either :-(
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Well, the philosophy of the World of Shadows is based on most of the
degenerate, immoral and foremost amoral philosophical beliefs of our
world exagarated to the maximum." --Anubis
ABCGi
> The Sheep wrote:
>
>> Dnia Thu, 02 Jun 2005 17:06:48 +0200,
>> Kornel Kisielewicz napisal(a):
>>
>>
>>> ABCGi wrote:
>>>
>>>> simen....@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> There is a "simple" 2D module (not iso) I have added to CVS
>>>> that you could use as the base for your "own roguelike", even
>>>> if it were just a small one. If someone were to do that it
>>>> would help the project.
>>>>
>>>> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/h-world/h-world/simple/
>>>>
>>>> Install h-world distro and extract simple to the main dir and
>>>> run "h-world.exe -game simple" to play.
>>>
>>>
>>> How to download a directory from the CVS?
>>
>>
>> cvs up <name of the directory>
>
>
> On linux I would know ;-)
> But I have neither access to Linux nor cygwin. Ok, I guess Google's my
> friend, and I can get some cvs binaries?
I use turtle on WinXP - integrates with Windows Explorer shell
sweeeeeeeeeeeeeetttttttttttttttt
See dev doco at;
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/h-world/h-world/Documentation/
sourceforge_developer_notes.txt
CVS - h-world source
====================
Download TortoiseCVS and install, reboot
http://tortoisecvs.sourceforge.net/
Windows Explorer
Right click check out
CVSROOT: :ext:ab...@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/h-world
(change abcgi to your username or use anonymous)
Module: h-world
Module: lua
Module: hjmlib
OK to download source code
(use developer password or press ENTER for anonymous)
--
ABCGi ---- (ab...@yahoo.com) ---- http://codemonkey.sunsite.dk
ABCGi
> ABCGi wrote:
>
>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>
>>> C:\Documents and Settings\Kornel
>>> Kisielewicz.CHAOS\Pulpit\h-world>H-World.exe -game simple
>>> Message: log_t::log_t: Starting logging to stderr
>>> FATAL ERROR: read_colorshades(): cannot open file
>>> Aborting program execution ...
>>>
>>> Please report all fatal errors to
>>> hansjoerg...@gmx.de
>>>
>>> This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an
>>> unusual way.
>>> Please contact the application's support team for more information.
>>> ?
>>
>> Ha my first bug report. Latest version of engine
>> must of broken 'simple' module - I will fix, repost
>> to CVS and then post here :)
>
> I rather think it's my problem, for I get that message when running
> *any* module except default. And trying to change directory name of
> simple to default doesn't help either :-(
hspace should work fine.... interesting, I'll still
check it all out.
try;
h-world.exe -game default
:)
Kornel Kisielewicz
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>
>> ABCGi wrote:
>>
>>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>>>
>>>> C:\Documents and Settings\Kornel
>>>> Kisielewicz.CHAOS\Pulpit\h-world>H-World.exe -game simple
>>>> Message: log_t::log_t: Starting logging to stderr
>>>> FATAL ERROR: read_colorshades(): cannot open file
>>>> Aborting program execution ...
>>>>
>>>> Please report all fatal errors to
>>>> hansjoerg...@gmx.de
>>>>
>>>> This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an
>>>> unusual way.
>>>> Please contact the application's support team for more information.
>>>> ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Ha my first bug report. Latest version of engine
>>> must of broken 'simple' module - I will fix, repost
>>> to CVS and then post here :)
>>
>>
>> I rather think it's my problem, for I get that message when running
>> *any* module except default. And trying to change directory name of
>> simple to default doesn't help either :-(
>
>
> hspace should work fine.... interesting, I'll still
> check it all out.
"h-world-demo\h-world>H-World.exe -game space
Message: log_t::log_t: Starting logging to stderr
FATAL ERROR: read_colorshades(): cannot open file
Aborting program execution ...
Please report all fatal errors to
hansjoerg...@gmx.de
This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual
way. Please contact the application's support team for more information."
> try;
>
> h-world.exe -game default
>
> :)
Kheh, that works. But only if it is the true default module.
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Due to Pascal's original purpose as a teaching language it forces one
to learn good habits - and those good habits stay with you, even when
you later migrate to a much more forgiving language." - Sherm Pendley
ABCGi
OK will look into that tonight. Maybe something broke all the other
modules.
Hansjoerg Malthaner
> Ok, I've downloaded the files. But whgen I run "h-world.exe -game
> simple" I get:
>
> C:\Documents and Settings\Kornel
> Kisielewicz.CHAOS\Pulpit\h-world>H-World.exe -game simple
> Message: log_t::log_t: Starting logging to stderr
> FATAL ERROR: read_colorshades(): cannot open file
> Aborting program execution ...
>
> Please report all fatal errors to
> hansjoerg...@gmx.de
>
> This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual
> way.
> Please contact the application's support team for more information.
>
> ?
Each module can define a colormap for recolored items.
The file containing the colormap is called colorshades.pal and resides
in the directory [module]/data/colorshades.pal
I didn't look at the "simple" module yet, but I suspect either an
installtion problem on your side, or that the file wasn't imported to
the CVS.
Does the default module work? I'm asking this becuase I want to be sure
that the basic installation is ok.
Colorshades docu:
http://h-world.simugraph.com/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Colorshades.Pal
--
c.u. Hajo
Hansjoerg Malthaner
> I rather think it's my problem, for I get that message when running
> *any* module except default. And trying to change directory name of
> simple to default doesn't help either :-(
Be careful when renaming module directories. Modules data files can
include the module names in some file paths (can also refer to files in
other modules directories, e.g. the default module). If you rename the
directory, the file paths become invalid.
I don't say it will always break. But it can, depending on how the
module is made.
--
c.u. Hajo
Hansjoerg Malthaner
> ABCGi wrote:
>> hspace should work fine.... interesting, I'll still
>> check it all out.
>
>
> "h-world-demo\h-world>H-World.exe -game space
> Message: log_t::log_t: Starting logging to stderr
> FATAL ERROR: read_colorshades(): cannot open file
> Aborting program execution ...
The name of the module is "hspace" not "space".
And there are startup files included: "start_h-space.sh" for Linux and
"start_h-space.bat" for windows.
Use them. They are there for a purpose!
--
c.u. Hajo
ABCGi
whoops I should of mentioned that....
me *bad*
Kornel Kisielewicz
You insult my intelligence Hajo :-). Before anything else I tried the
supplied batch files. They didn't work. I also tried all "h-space",
"hspace" and "space" -- each produces the same error....
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
Hansjoerg Malthaner
> Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
>
>> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote::
>>> "h-world-demo\h-world>H-World.exe -game space
>>> Message: log_t::log_t: Starting logging to stderr
>>> FATAL ERROR: read_colorshades(): cannot open file
>>> Aborting program execution ...
>>
>> The name of the module is "hspace" not "space".
>>
>> And there are startup files included: "start_h-space.sh" for Linux and
>> "start_h-space.bat" for windows.
>>
>> Use them. They are there for a purpose!
>
> You insult my intelligence Hajo :-). Before anything else I tried the
> supplied batch files. They didn't work. I also tried all "h-space",
> "hspace" and "space" -- each produces the same error....
Then the only explanation is a installation problem, like a messed up
directory structure or missing files.
You could take the last release of the binary, and see how the structure
differs from your installation. The binary release is known to work.
Also, I checked out the CVS and can tell that on my system both, the
default module and the space game can be started. But that test was made
with Linux and I see you are working with Windows.
ABCGi is using Windows, and it seems to work for him.
The following are my very personal thoughts on this:
I'm a little afraid that this discussion will give a lot of people the
idea that H-World is defective on a very basic level and not worth to be
tried. This makes me sad, but I know it's unavoidable, problems that
occur on single systems and that are published this way always are
received by the reader as a general problem of the program.
I had a little hope that H-World can successfully be revived, but now I
know that most likely noone of this group will try it anymore, because
you have such a good reputation as developer, and if you don't get it to
work, the conclusion can only be: noone else can get it to work.
Kornel, I can't help you and I can't help the project. I think you now
gave it the final blow.
--
c.u. Hajo
Kornel Kisielewicz
> Then the only explanation is a installation problem, like a messed up
> directory structure or missing files.
Yup. Or my complete lack of cvs using skills :-(. If ABCGi could prepare
the "simple" module as a binary release/package it would help a lot :-/
> You could take the last release of the binary, and see how the structure
> differs from your installation. The binary release is known to work.
It does without problems. It's the CVS downloaded modules that give me a
hard time.
> Also, I checked out the CVS and can tell that on my system both, the
> default module and the space game can be started. But that test was made
> with Linux and I see you are working with Windows.
> ABCGi is using Windows, and it seems to work for him.
Probably stupid me...
> The following are my very personal thoughts on this:
>
> I'm a little afraid that this discussion will give a lot of people the
> idea that H-World is defective on a very basic level and not worth to be
> tried. This makes me sad, but I know it's unavoidable, problems that
> occur on single systems and that are published this way always are
> received by the reader as a general problem of the program.
Well this is not the case. I get lost in compicated systems, and it's
the first time I've downloaded anything via CVS.
> I had a little hope that H-World can successfully be revived, but now I
> know that most likely noone of this group will try it anymore, because
> you have such a good reputation as developer, and if you don't get it to
> work, the conclusion can only be: noone else can get it to work.
Oh come on! It only proves I'm a complete lamer when it comes to CVS
:-/. But I see your point -- so the only thing that can be done now for
me is to get this working no matter the consequences!
> Kornel, I can't help you and I can't help the project. I think you now
> gave it the final blow.
Don't say such things! You make me feel guilty... And I only wanted to
help...
--
At your service,
Kornel Kisielewicz (charonATmagma-net.pl) [http://chaos.magma-net.pl]
"Invalid thought detected. Close all mental processes and
restart body."
ABCGi
> Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
> > Then the only explanation is a installation problem, like a messed up
> > directory structure or missing files.
>
> Yup. Or my complete lack of cvs using skills :-(. If ABCGi could prepare
> the "simple" module as a binary release/package it would help a lot :-/
Yes once I finish the first version of 'simple' and some other
code changes I was going to make a new build. But I appreciate
your trying it out from CVS - there may be some issues with it.
I'm going to check on all this, on Windows, shortly.
*SNIP*
DISCLAIMER
H-World is the bomb and both the jungle and hspace are fully
playable and stable on Windows for a regulation gamer. Any
modding/development issues should not and are not taken as
a sign of quality of the product - only of a product being
developed, which is a good thing :)
--
ABCGi ab...@yahoo.com http://abcgi.fly.to S14 D15 I17 W12 C9
GCS/IT$/L/B$ d+(-) s: a? C++ ULUSU-- P+ L+>++ E- W++$ N+ o+ K--
w+++(--)$ O- !M- V PS++(+) PE-@ Y+(++) PGP>++ t++ 5+ X R(+++) tv
b++(+) DI++++ D+++ G e++>+++ h++(home office!) r++ y++* BAS-----
Krice
> I had a little hope that H-World can successfully be revived, but now I
> know that most likely noone of this group will try it anymore, because
> you have such a good reputation as developer,
I'm still planning a module for it.
> and if you don't get it to
> work, the conclusion can only be: noone else can get it to work.
I haven't used CVS either and my opinion is that modules should
be released as "normal" packages anyway. SOME programmers might be
familiar with CVS, but not all, and surely not the players.
> Kornel, I can't help you and I can't help the project. I think you now
> gave it the final blow.
Don't be so dramatic:)
konijn_
Nah, he is an excellent FreePascal developer, but his comments about
lua in another thread and cvs in this thread indicate to any one that
the problem here is between his ears ;)
T.
R. Dan Henry
wrote:
>On 2005-06-03 12:40:31, Kornel Kisielewicz <kisie...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
>
>> Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
>> > Then the only explanation is a installation problem, like a messed up
>> > directory structure or missing files.
>>
>> Yup. Or my complete lack of cvs using skills :-(. If ABCGi could prepare
>> the "simple" module as a binary release/package it would help a lot :-/
>
>Yes once I finish the first version of 'simple' and some other
>code changes I was going to make a new build. But I appreciate
>your trying it out from CVS - there may be some issues with it.
Well, once it no longer requires that I pick up CVS, I'm looking
forward to checking out "simple".
ABCGi
> Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
>
>>I had a little hope that H-World can successfully be revived, but now I
>>know that most likely noone of this group will try it anymore, because
>>you have such a good reputation as developer,
>
> I'm still planning a module for it.
>
>>and if you don't get it to
>>work, the conclusion can only be: noone else can get it to work.
>
> I haven't used CVS either and my opinion is that modules should
> be released as "normal" packages anyway. SOME programmers might be
> familiar with CVS, but not all, and surely not the players.
Absolutely, 'simple' module is not quite ready to go in the
package yet...
*SNIP*
Glen Wheeler
"R. Dan Henry" <danh...@inreach.com> wrote in message
news:v6g4a11n2q98h14la...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 09:58:51 +0000 (UTC), ABCGi <ab...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On 2005-06-03 12:40:31, Kornel Kisielewicz <kisie...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
>>> > Then the only explanation is a installation problem, like a messed up
>>> > directory structure or missing files.
>>>
>>> Yup. Or my complete lack of cvs using skills :-(. If ABCGi could prepare
>>> the "simple" module as a binary release/package it would help a lot :-/
>>
>>Yes once I finish the first version of 'simple' and some other
>>code changes I was going to make a new build. But I appreciate
>>your trying it out from CVS - there may be some issues with it.
>
> Well, once it no longer requires that I pick up CVS, I'm looking
> forward to checking out "simple".
>
Not replying specifically to RDH but...
...what's the big deal with CVS? I thought we were all programmers here?
As in programming for day jobs. Don't you use CVS all the time? I remember
learning CVS in err, 3rd year uni. Is there some big CVS blackout that I'm
missing? :/.
Anyway, as ABCGi said, it's just for devving, not releasing...but you all
knew that.
--
Glen
L:Pyt E+++ T-- R+ P+++ D+ G+ F:*band !RL RLA-
W:AF Q+++ AI++ GFX++ SFX-- RN++++ PO--- !Hp Re-- S+
ABCGi
> On 2005-06-03 12:40:31, Kornel Kisielewicz <kisie...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
>
>>Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
>>
>>>Then the only explanation is a installation problem, like a messed up
>>>directory structure or missing files.
>>
>>Yup. Or my complete lack of cvs using skills :-(. If ABCGi could prepare
>>the "simple" module as a binary release/package it would help a lot :-/
>
> Yes once I finish the first version of 'simple' and some other
> code changes I was going to make a new build. But I appreciate
> your trying it out from CVS - there may be some issues with it.
> I'm going to check on all this, on Windows, shortly.
Korn, I tried to repeat your problem, couldn't. I installed
a clean 0.4.3.1 from source forge - extracting the base pkg,
the windows pkg and the hspace pkg all to the same directory.
On WinXP the hspace module ran fine and the default "The Jungle"
module ran fine. There is a log written by the game maybe you
could email me it for more clues.
ABCGi
> ABCGi wrote:
>
>> On 2005-06-03 12:40:31, Kornel Kisielewicz <kisie...@gazeta.pl> wrote:
>>
>>> Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
>>>
>>>> Then the only explanation is a installation problem, like a messed up
>>>> directory structure or missing files.
>>>
>>> Yup. Or my complete lack of cvs using skills :-(. If ABCGi could prepare
>>> the "simple" module as a binary release/package it would help a lot :-/
>>
>> Yes once I finish the first version of 'simple' and some other code
>> changes I was going to make a new build. But I appreciate your trying
>> it out from CVS - there may be some issues with it. I'm going to check
>> on all this, on Windows, shortly.
>
> Korn, I tried to repeat your problem, couldn't. I installed
> a clean 0.4.3.1 from source forge - extracting the base pkg,
> the windows pkg and the hspace pkg all to the same directory.
>
> On WinXP the hspace module ran fine and the default "The Jungle"
> module ran fine. There is a log written by the game maybe you
> could email me it for more clues.
The file it is looking for in h-world-demo\hspace\graph\colorshades.pal
I think, I assume it is in place in the right directory structure?
It should be 2546 bytes and you should be able to open it as a text
file.
Your error is happening right near the startup of the h-world client,
see this code from h_word_client.cpp (Hajo do I need to change these
copyright notices? - if so to what do you want me to change them?)
---------------------------------------------------------------
/*
* h_world_client.cpp
*
* Copyright (c) 2003 Hansjörg Malthaner
*
* This file is part of the H-World project and may not be used
* in other projects without written permission of the author.
*/
#include "h_world_main.h"
#include "util/debug_t.h"
#include "swt/sdl_window_t.h"
//#include "swt/x11_window_t.h"
#include "swt/system_window_t.h"
#include "swt/window_manager_t.h"
#include "swt/gui_window_t.h"
#include "swt/gui_container_t.h"
#include "swt/tileset_t.h"
#include "primitives/cstring_t.h"
#include "primitives/invalid_argument_exception_t.h"
#include "view/world_view_t.h"
#include "view/server_view_t.h"
#include "view/visual_t.h"
#include "view/ground_visual_t.h"
#include "model/world_t.h"
#include "gui/stats_panel_t.h"
#include "net/client_socket_t.h"
#include "net/socketio_t.h"
#include "net/commands.h"
extern int h_world_main(int argc, char ** argv)
{
const char * path = gimme_arg(argc, argv, "-game", 1);
if(argc !=3 ) {
printf("Usage: %s <host> <port>\n", argv[0]);
exit(10);
}
client_socket_t socket(argv[1], atoi(argv[2]));
try {
// init recoloring feature
visual_t::read_colorshades();
--------------------------------------------------------------------
*SNIP*
And then the error happens in that function (visual_t.cpp);
----------------------------------------------------------
void visual_t::read_colorshades(const cstring_t & base_dir)
{
FILE *file = fopen(base_dir + "/graph/colorshades.pal", "r"); <-***
if(file) {
int R,G,B;
fscanf(file, "%d\n", &R); // dummy only
for(int i=0; i<256; i++) {
fscanf(file, "%d %d %d\n", &R, &G, &B); // dummy only
colorshades[i] = /* (R << 24) + (G << 16) + B; */
((R & 0xF8) << 7) +
((G & 0xF8) << 2) +
((B & 0xF8) >> 3);
// dbg->message("read_colorshades()", "%d %d %d", R, G, B);
}
} else {
dbg->fatal("read_colorshades()", "cannot open file"); <-***
}
}
------------------------------------------------------------------
Note the nice clean code from Hajo :)
ABCGi
> ABCGi wrote:
*SNIP*
>> Korn, I tried to repeat your problem, couldn't. I installed
>> a clean 0.4.3.1 from source forge - extracting the base pkg,
>> the windows pkg and the hspace pkg all to the same directory.
>>
>> On WinXP the hspace module ran fine and the default "The Jungle"
>> module ran fine. There is a log written by the game maybe you
>> could email me it for more clues.
>
> The file it is looking for in h-world-demo\hspace\graph\colorshades.pal
> I think, I assume it is in place in the right directory structure?
> It should be 2546 bytes and you should be able to open it as a text
> file.
>
> Your error is happening right near the startup of the h-world client,
> see this code from h_word_client.cpp (Hajo do I need to change these
> copyright notices? - if so to what do you want me to change them?)
'simple' module is confirmed broken for 0.4.3.1! There were some
new files needed by h-world.exe that simple doesn't have yet...
so fixing now. However jungle and h-space are just fine on WinXP.
R. Dan Henry
wrote:
> ...what's the big deal with CVS? I thought we were all programmers here?
>As in programming for day jobs.
Not me. That's one reason I'm starting with *band variants; if I tried
to code a roguelike from the ground up right now, I'd be way out of my
depth.
>Don't you use CVS all the time?
No.
Krice
> ...what's the big deal with CVS? I thought we were all programmers here?
> As in programming for day jobs.
I'm animator myself. I first heard about CVS when I installed DevC++ 4
and there it was in that odd menu.. and today I was reading excellent
book Thinking In C++ and learned about "copy constructor". I hate that
thing already!
ABCGi
> ABCGi wrote:
>
>> ABCGi wrote:
>
> *SNIP*
>
>>> Korn, I tried to repeat your problem, couldn't. I installed
>>> a clean 0.4.3.1 from source forge - extracting the base pkg,
>>> the windows pkg and the hspace pkg all to the same directory.
>>>
>>> On WinXP the hspace module ran fine and the default "The Jungle"
>>> module ran fine. There is a log written by the game maybe you
>>> could email me it for more clues.
>>
>>
>> The file it is looking for in h-world-demo\hspace\graph\colorshades.pal
>> I think, I assume it is in place in the right directory structure?
>> It should be 2546 bytes and you should be able to open it as a text
>> file.
>>
>> Your error is happening right near the startup of the h-world client,
>> see this code from h_word_client.cpp (Hajo do I need to change these
>> copyright notices? - if so to what do you want me to change them?)
>
> *SNIP*
>
> 'simple' module is confirmed broken for 0.4.3.1! There were some
> new files needed by h-world.exe that simple doesn't have yet...
> so fixing now. However jungle and h-space are just fine on WinXP.
Fixed on CVS now, but still needs work, least it runs now.
Sherm Pendley
> On Sun, 5 Jun 2005 10:38:44 +1000, "Glen Wheeler" <ge...@uow.edu.au>
> wrote:
>
>>Don't you use CVS all the time?
>
> No.
If you're curious, here's an introduction:
<https://www.cvshome.org/docs/blandy.html>
sherm--
--
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
Hire me! My resume: http://www.dot-app.org
Hansjoerg Malthaner
> /*
> * h_world_client.cpp
> *
> * Copyright (c) 2003 Hansjörg Malthaner
> *
> * This file is part of the H-World project and may not be used
> * in other projects without written permission of the author.
> */
This reminds me, all file headers must be changed to use the GPL!
Maybe like this?
* This file is part of the H-World project and available under
* the terms of the GNU public license
I didn't change the code before uploading it to sourceforge, the above
is the old header from the times when H-World was closed source. But now
the code is GPL, and available under the GPL despite the not-yet updated
headers.
--
c.u.
Hajo
Hansjoerg Malthaner
> Hansjoerg Malthaner wrote:
> I haven't used CVS either and my opinion is that modules should
> be released as "normal" packages anyway. SOME programmers might be
> familiar with CVS, but not all, and surely not the players.
In the past there have been ready-to-use ZIP and TGZ archvies with
binaries for Windows and Linux. I think we should keep that up. So once
there is an official new release, build those packages again and offer
them for download on sourceforge.
>>Kornel, I can't help you and I can't help the project. I think you now
>>gave it the final blow.
>
> Don't be so dramatic:)
/me likes to be a drama queen
;)
--
c.u. Hajo
Sherm Pendley
> ABCGi wrote::
>
>> /*
>> * h_world_client.cpp
>> *
>> * Copyright (c) 2003 Hansjörg Malthaner
>> *
>> * This file is part of the H-World project and may not be used
>> * in other projects without written permission of the author.
>> */
>
> This reminds me, all file headers must be changed to use the GPL!
> Maybe like this?
>
> * This file is part of the H-World project and available under
> * the terms of the GNU public license
The FSF provides some standard boilerplate text on their site:
<http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html>
ABCGi
Yeah you've got something written about it on sourceforge.
I will add the above as I change code :)
Kornel Kisielewicz
What's that supposed to mean huh? ;-)
1. Lua -- I gave up, and joined the Lua-side -- 3 hours worth of
browsing lua.org were enough to convince me.
2. CVS -- I used only RCS, and as for my own projects I use a self made
app called VCS (Valkyrie Control System) that is also diff based like
RCS/VCS (although it lacks concurrent features like CVS - which doesn't
matter cause I always work alone) -- and I prefer it because of it's
integration with other Valkyrie tools (and the fact that it's written in
Perl ;-P)