Ironband - first release

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Antoine

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Nov 22, 2007, 2:45:10 AM11/22/07
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Hi

I'm doing a first release of Ironband today, hoping to pick up any
problems with the distribution. It works for me but I've not tested it
on any other computer, so now seems like a good time.

The links are:
[Windows binary] http://orbquest.googlecode.com/files/Ironband_WinBinary_22Nov07.zip
[Source] http://orbquest.googlecode.com/files/Ironband_Source_22Nov07.zip

Compiling from source should be the same as for NPP (from which
Ironband is forked, all kudos to the NPP developers!) If anyone wants
to submit binaries for platforms other than Windows they will be
gratefully received and distributed.

Any feedback welcome, including but not limited to:
- broken link or unreadable zipfile
- compiling problems (porting issues in general)
- bugs
- immediately evident problems with interface
- anything missing from the distribution package.

Other than that, I hope y'all enjoy playing the game as much as I've
enjoyed developing it. Look forward to YAFVP.

If you're going to play the game I think you should also look at
'IRONBAND-README.txt', as some of the kewl new features could give you
a surprise if you don't know about them in advance. I've copied out
the 'why should you play this game' list from the README below.

Best,
A.

Why should you play Ironband?
===========================

1. No more 'game of shopping' - you never need to pick stuff up just
to sell it.

2. 'Too much junk' is pretty much fixed (with changes to item
probabilities, all characters able to use all items, some crap items
removed, changes to identification, etc - and with no shops you need
to keep a lot more of the stuff you find!)

3. Many of the problems which make normal Ironman games very
challenging are fixed in Ironband (for example, stat drain is a
problem but not a huge one, and spellbooks are more resistant to
fire).

4. No more warriors wielding whips - go for a heavy weapon to do more
damage (if your Strength is high enough).

5. No more boring stat gain period - your stats increase throughout
the entire game without needing to collect potions.

6. Having nine stats is cool especially when you can decide which ones
to raise. No more 'all endgame characters look the same'.

7. Lots of interesting resource allocation issues because your SPs
only regenerate when you go downstairs. Will you use your precious SPs
for a big fight, or to create some food for later, or to identify the
items you found, or...?

8. With many types of escape restricted, you actually have to kill the
monsters :) (or sneak around them).


Matthias

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Nov 22, 2007, 6:04:29 AM11/22/07
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On Nov 22, 8:45 am, Antoine <antoine.from.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
>
Nice release. Some of those additions sound very intresting..

>
> Any feedback welcome, including but not limited to:
> - bugs

The windows version crashs when activating sound. This is also true
for NPP

Matthias

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Nov 22, 2007, 7:13:41 AM11/22/07
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On Nov 22, 12:04 pm, Matthias <MatthiasNOSPAMRud...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> On Nov 22, 8:45 am, Antoine <antoine.from.r...@gmail.com> wrote:> Hi
>
> Nice release. Some of those additions sound very intresting..

Made it to level 6. Seems like I am supposed to be a very unlucky but
healthy mage.
After an intense fight with Lagduf my resources are deplented, but I
have a useful sword now...

I think stat increases should come before SP refilling when descending
a level, as I just got a large boost to wisdom but my mana is still at
69/92

Antoine

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Nov 22, 2007, 1:41:14 PM11/22/07
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On Nov 23, 12:04 am, Matthias <MatthiasNOSPAMRud...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

Well, that's no good, I wonder what we can do to fix it.

NPP devs, do we know the status of this one?

A.

Antoine

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Nov 22, 2007, 1:42:01 PM11/22/07
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On Nov 23, 1:13 am, Matthias <MatthiasNOSPAMRud...@googlemail.com>

Sounds like you're doing well. It is always a relief to get rid of the
starting dagger.

I agree about the SP refilling and will sort that in the next release.

A.

Matthias

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Nov 22, 2007, 5:33:24 PM11/22/07
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On Nov 22, 8:45 am, Antoine <antoine.from.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi

> Any feedback welcome:

There seems to be a problem with spells costing fractions of 1 SP.
Using a Talisman of Battle, the Wand of Magic Missile is supposed to
cost 1/4 SP. But it is a lot more than that, maybe 3/4 SP

regarding progress I made it to dlvl14. Level12 had a special feeling
caused by a lesser vault with both of Mim's sons. Killing both of them
reduced my mana to zero for the first time in 4 levels, but I got a
wand of mana bolt in return as well as the first ever pair of boots

Matthias

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Nov 22, 2007, 6:20:31 PM11/22/07
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On Nov 22, 11:33 pm, Matthias <MatthiasNOSPAMRud...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> On Nov 22, 8:45 am, Antoine <antoine.from.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi
> > Any feedback welcome:
>
> There seems to be a problem with spells costing fractions of 1 SP.
> Using a Talisman of Battle, the Wand of Magic Missile is supposed to
> cost 1/4 SP. But it is a lot more than that, maybe 3/4 SP

Also true for wand spells more expensive than 1 SP. Actually all my
spells cast by wands cost more mana than what the inscription sais.
Dual talismaned wands of fire bolt/ball are still very nice weapons,
so maybe it is just the inscription that is off...

Antoine

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Nov 22, 2007, 7:05:47 PM11/22/07
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On Nov 23, 12:20 pm, Matthias <MatthiasNOSPAMRud...@googlemail.com>

Will check and fix in next release.

A.

will_asher

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Nov 23, 2007, 4:07:51 PM11/23/07
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On 2007-11-22 08:45:10, Antoine <antoine....@gmail.com> wrote:

As far as installing and bugs and stuff the game works just fine so far on my
computer.

I played six games and never got past dL2. Everyone starts with just a dagger
and not much magical ability (can only cast spells maybe 3 times on the first
level or two). If I ever want a very short game ending in death I'll play this
game.

On the other hand I wonder if playing this game might make me a better Angband
player.

My main problem is this: In vanilla Angband, every starting character has
something he is good at (unless you pick a really bad class/race combo), warrior
has melee, ranger has his bow, mage has magic missile.. In Ironband everyone
starts out bad at everything and with poor equipment (except for the scrolls,
which is nice).

In conclusion, I don't see anything wrong with Ironband except that I'm
apparently just not a good enough Angband player to get anywhere in it. I knew
it would be harder than vanilla, but didn't expect every character to start with
nothing better than a dagger and a sling. Also, In vanilla I never go past dL2
without at least a potion or two of CSW or better for healing. In Ironband, we
get 10hps from the heroism potion and a spell of cure light wounds which you can
only cast a couple times per level. Also, I don't understand the reason for
making light sources last a shorter time.
Even in vanilla, I usually die before reaching dL15, and have only gotten past
dL20 with one of the few great race/class combos (dunedain paladin, high-elf
ranger, half-orc warrior. -haven't played much with dwarf priest yet and always
die very quickly as a mage with any race.). Well, I've gotten a little past
dL20 a couple times with a kobold paladin which was my favorite combo for
awhile.

I see the dump of Ironband in the ladder and I think how in the world did he get
that far on one of his first games (possibly his very first game) of this hard
variant.

um.. I hope this doesn't sound like a pity party.. maybe it is, maybe I should
shut up..

Feature request for Ironband: Skill levels which mostly just effect your
starting equipment and maybe mana.
A lot of things in the Ironband readme file sound like cool features for a fun
game, so I'd like to be able to play the game at not quite such a high skill
level.. or maybe this game just isn't for those who've never won vanilla.

may I have permission to ramble a little?
I said in a message in some thread (I've forgotten which) that I was trying to
win vanilla before getting much into other varients, and someone said I
shouldn't do that. I have tried a couple other varients and never got very far.
I probably should have given them more of a chance and played them more, but I
keep feeling like I shouldn't get used to a varient until I've won vanilla. And
I'm also playing a considerable amount with my modified .txt files 'cause I want
to test them and make them available for download sometime soon (which is why I
haven't posted anything on the ladder recently).

Matthias

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Nov 23, 2007, 5:15:01 PM11/23/07
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On Nov 23, 10:07 pm, will_asher <will_as...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 2007-11-22 08:45:10, Antoine <antoine.from.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As far as installing and bugs and stuff the game works just fine so far on my
> computer.
>
> I played six games and never got past dL2. Everyone starts with just a dagger
> and not much magical ability (can only cast spells maybe 3 times on the first
> level or two). If I ever want a very short game ending in death I'll play this
> game.

The start is indeed very difficult, and your life is at gamble there.
A good weapon makes a big difference. Trust the RNG, and won't be
betrayed.

> In Ironband everyone starts out bad at everything and with poor equipment (except for the scrolls,
> which is nice).

This is (I think) because the character is supposed to be able to
develop in all directions. Give him a bigger sword or a long bow or a
wand of magic missile and most will chose the path of the warrior/
ranger/mage. The way it is now it is all in the hands of a RNG and
what stats are increased or what items you find on the first levels.


>
> In conclusion, I don't see anything wrong with Ironband except that I'm
> apparently just not a good enough Angband player to get anywhere in it.

While I don't think you should give up yet, you do indeed need to know
your ways around the dungeon. Ironman mode is always a completely
different game.

> I see the dump of Ironband in the ladder and I think how in the world did he get
> that far on one of his first games (possibly his very first game) of this hard
> variant.

That's mine. Feel free to ask specific questions over there. I'm
always happy to get comments :) It is indeed my very first Ironband
character, but far from my first character overall. Click 45. "for
this player" to see some of my other ones :)
One lonely dump is nothing to draw conclusions from. The same is true
for me, with only one character I still can only guess how the next
one would end. For the early levels, ignore all spells but bless. Use
that sling, then finish them with the dagger. If you have to heal it
is likely too late. I started with 2.2 blows.

For that one character it was basically a gamble until level5. Could
have died any time (, but I didn't, maybe thanks to playing
experience). When facing Lagduf and around 15 cave orcs, I was using a
rapier with ~2.5 blows had 3 !speed, one or two !clw, a berserk, a
hero, my starting sling with some good ammunation, the second book and
six mana left. I survived, using all resources, and got a broad sword
(+6 +8) and some armor as a reward. Not too many problems from that
point up to now at 23, again with the right item drops here or there.

> I said in a message in some thread (I've forgotten which) that I was trying to

> win vanilla before getting much into other variants, and someone said I
> shouldn't do that.

Once again I don't want to drive you away from playing Ironband, as
every learning experience is a good one, but in that message would
have disagreed with "someone" and agreed with you that beating vanilla
first is the best approach to general *banding.

For ironband, I'd suggest you post at least your best character to the
ladder, then replace the dump with a new guy with the same name after
you die. This way it's easier to see a progress, and Falach is no
longer all lonely on there :)


Matthias

darkDrone

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Nov 23, 2007, 10:29:10 PM11/23/07
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will:
i Always knew that IRONMAN in any *band is tough.

Ironband just makes it in your face!

i have died 14 times since playing it.... mostly to wimpy 'i's and
'o's ...
right now on DL 4 ... have a good whip and a good spear. the last two
times i made it down here ... i got offed by Brodda the Easterling and
a herd of 'o's , respectively.

also i am inclined to dump anything from the inventory as soon as i
get anything better.

Antoine:
i hope *ID* will not be a rarity?

ARE there any artifacts ?

regards,
dD

On Nov 24, 2:07 am, will_asher <will_as...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Djabanete

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Nov 24, 2007, 1:46:58 AM11/24/07
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I LOVE IT

What prompted that statement was this chain of events: <you feel that the sling
in your pack is good> <you were wielding a sling +0/+0> <you are now wielding a
sling -2/-4> <Ooops! It feels deathly cold!>

Thanks for this variant, I already know I'm going to enjoy it. Don't ever stop
working on it! ^ ^

Andres Zanzani

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Nov 24, 2007, 3:03:04 AM11/24/07
to
Antoine ha scritto:

> Hi
>
> I'm doing a first release of Ironband today, hoping to pick up any
> problems with the distribution. It works for me but I've not tested it
> on any other computer, so now seems like a good time.
>
> The links are:
> [Windows binary] http://orbquest.googlecode.com/files/Ironband_WinBinary_22Nov07.zip
> [Source] http://orbquest.googlecode.com/files/Ironband_Source_22Nov07.zip
>

for me isn't working the windows build

i run it and no window appear, checking in task manager i can see the
application but not visible window is present

i have several roguelikes installed
(NPP050BETA2-Win,angband-3.0.8,zangband-274b-win ..) and all are working

my specs are winxp sp2 (fully patched), italian, 1gb ram, p4 2.8,
1280*1024 resolution (ldc 19')

when i end the process even angband.ini isn't created
i had copy the angband.ini from angband 3.0.8 to
\Ironband_WinBinary_22Nov07 directory but.. again it doesn't start

any help ?

--
Andres Zanzani
Cesena, Italy

Dave Man

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Nov 26, 2007, 11:27:52 AM11/26/07
to

Thanks for this interesting variant. It's fun to concentrate on diving without
worrying about going home. :-)

I've tested my build for Debian armel. Tried the graphical mode but couln't get
the background tiles displayed.

16x16 tile:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2416/2066301880_578aedc976_o.png

16x16 bigile:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2259/2066301882_79ede5bd4d_o.png

I've tried using the angband306 graf but still no joy. Any hint? Has anyone got
the same display issue?

Looking forward to the release version!

Dave


Antoine

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Nov 26, 2007, 1:42:58 PM11/26/07
to
On Nov 24, 10:07 am, will_asher <will_as...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On 2007-11-22 08:45:10, Antoine <antoine.from.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As far as installing and bugs and stuff the game works just fine so far on my
> computer.
>
> I played six games and never got past dL2. Everyone starts with just a dagger
> and not much magical ability (can only cast spells maybe 3 times on the first
> level or two). If I ever want a very short game ending in death I'll play this
> game.

I feel your pain :)

Keep trying, All you need is a lucky break (which tends to be (a) a
better melee weapon, (b) a better shooter, or (c) an extra spellbook)
and from there you can reach about 1000' with not too much trouble.

> Feature request for Ironband: Skill levels which mostly just effect your
> starting equipment and maybe mana.

Noted for next release (I'd probably add an 'easy_start' birth option,
but for balance it would need to make the mid or late game harder!)

A.

Antoine

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Nov 26, 2007, 1:45:26 PM11/26/07
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On Nov 24, 4:29 pm, darkDrone <family.s...@gmail.com> wrote:
> will:
> i Always knew that IRONMAN in any *band is tough.
>
> Ironband just makes it in your face!
>
> i have died 14 times since playing it.... mostly to wimpy 'i's and
> 'o's ...
> right now on DL 4 ... have a good whip and a good spear. the last two
> times i made it down here ... i got offed by Brodda the Easterling and
> a herd of 'o's , respectively.

With d2 base damage I very much doubt the whip is worth using, Spear
sounds good.

> Antoine:
> i hope *ID* will not be a rarity?

It's not supposed to be rare. I increased the frequency and it's also
in one of the dungeon books as a spell. If you find it to be too
scarce, let me know.

> ARE there any artifacts ?

There sure are! You will find more of them if your Luck is high

A.

Antoine

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Nov 26, 2007, 1:45:56 PM11/26/07
to

Heh heh, Thanks for the ups.

Enjoy your sling as you may be wielding it for a while! ;)

A.

will_asher

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Nov 26, 2007, 6:20:58 PM11/26/07
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On 2007-11-26 19:42:58, Antoine <antoine....@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Nov 24, 10:07 am, will_asher wrote:


> > On 2007-11-22 08:45:10, Antoine wrote:
> >
> > As far as installing and bugs and stuff the game works just fine so far on my
> > computer.
> >
> > I played six games and never got past dL2. Everyone starts with just a dagger
> > and not much magical ability (can only cast spells maybe 3 times on the first
> > level or two). If I ever want a very short game ending in death I'll play this
> > game.
>
> I feel your pain :)
>
> Keep trying, All you need is a lucky break (which tends to be (a) a
> better melee weapon, (b) a better shooter, or (c) an extra spellbook)
> and from there you can reach about 1000' with not too much trouble.
>
> > Feature request for Ironband: Skill levels which mostly just effect your
> > starting equipment and maybe mana.
>
> Noted for next release (I'd probably add an 'easy_start' birth option,
> but for balance it would need to make the mid or late game harder!)

Since my suggestion mainly effects drops, maybe the down side could be that good
drops are a little less common (or just put -1 or -2 luck).

will_asher

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Nov 26, 2007, 6:39:29 PM11/26/07
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On 2007-11-27 00:20:58, will_asher <will_...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> >
> > > Feature request for Ironband: Skill levels which mostly just effect your
> > > starting equipment and maybe mana.
> >
> > Noted for next release (I'd probably add an 'easy_start' birth option,
> > but for balance it would need to make the mid or late game harder!)
>
> Since my suggestion mainly effects drops, maybe the down side could be that good
> drops are a little less common (or just put -1 or -2 luck).
>

um, I meant to say my suggestion mainly effects equipment..

Antoine

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Nov 26, 2007, 9:27:08 PM11/26/07
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On Nov 27, 12:20 pm, will_asher <will_as...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> drops are a little less common (or just put -1 or -2 luck).- Hide quoted text -

I thought about making it give an XP penalty in the mid game - like
playing one of the better races, you go up levels slower. Probably
also reduce your score compared to non-Easy-Start characters.

A.

andrewdoull

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Nov 27, 2007, 4:55:52 AM11/27/07
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On 2007-11-22 08:45:10, Antoine <antoine....@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I'm doing a first release of Ironband today, hoping to pick up any
> problems with the distribution. It works for me but I've not tested it
> on any other computer, so now seems like a good time.

I've added a news item to Rogue Basin for this, and added an IronBand entry in.
You probably will want to edit this, and maybe amend the case from IronBand to
Ironband.

http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=IronBand

I've also added a quick description of what Ironman play consists of.

Andrew

--
The Roflwtfzomgbbq Quylthulg summons L33t Paladins -more-
"Apple: Celebrating the poisoning of Alan Turing since 1977."
ASCII Dreams: http://roguelikedeveloper.blogspot.com
Unangband: http://unangband.blogspot.com

Antoine

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Nov 27, 2007, 5:29:55 AM11/27/07
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On Nov 27, 10:55 pm, andrewdoull <andrewdo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 2007-11-22 08:45:10, Antoine <antoine.from.r...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi
>
> > I'm doing a first release of Ironband today, hoping to pick up any
> > problems with the distribution. It works for me but I've not tested it
> > on any other computer, so now seems like a good time.
>
> I've added a news item to Rogue Basin for this, and added an IronBand entry in.
> You probably will want to edit this, and maybe amend the case from IronBand to
> Ironband.
>
> http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=IronBand
>
> I've also added a quick description of what Ironman play consists of.

Good thought, thanks

A.

Andres Zanzani

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Nov 27, 2007, 2:48:43 PM11/27/07
to
Antoine ha scritto:

about my problem ?

thanks!

BHH

Antoine

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Nov 27, 2007, 3:17:10 PM11/27/07
to
> BHH- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi

Yeah, I hope we'll be able to figure out a fix. I'm not sure what the
problem is. I've emailed Jeff (NPP maestro) to ask if he could take a
look at this thread. I expect he'll have a better idea than I.

A.

andrewdoull

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Nov 28, 2007, 3:39:06 AM11/28/07
to
On 2007-11-22 08:45:10, Antoine <antoine....@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi
>
> I'm doing a first release of Ironband today, hoping to pick up any
> problems with the distribution. It works for me but I've not tested it
> on any other computer, so now seems like a good time.

It's a shame that the big M isn't in this. I've just realised Ironband is a nice
name for a certain Silmaril encrusted crown.

Then there's the nice Iron<->Ang substitution thing as well...

l1c...@hotmail.com

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Nov 28, 2007, 9:56:27 AM11/28/07
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Hey, thanks for a cool little varient, plays nicely differently from
the standards.

However, I'm totally at a loss for what the new wall tiles do. Is
there some way to activate them, or are they just flavor, or do you
have to wait to find out?

I'm pretty miserable at this so far, it seems everytime I take my
first stairs I get whacked in the stat area where I can't afford it,
and I'm not up to speed with light conservation either :p

Having your agility take a big hit and all of a sudden you are at -2
speed was a killer to my last guy :)

Fun though.

Antoine

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Nov 28, 2007, 3:24:15 PM11/28/07
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On Nov 29, 3:56 am, "l1c...@hotmail.com" <l1c...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hey, thanks for a cool little varient, plays nicely differently from
> the standards.
>
> However, I'm totally at a loss for what the new wall tiles do. Is
> there some way to activate them, or are they just flavor, or do you
> have to wait to find out?

They're actually from NPP. Some of them do stuff. Elven walls glow in
the dark, ethereal walls can teleport you about, silent watchers can
aggravate nearby monsters, ice walls are transparent and so on and so
forth. None of them need any special activation command, except in
some cases walking into them.

> I'm pretty miserable at this so far, it seems everytime I take my
> first stairs I get whacked in the stat area where I can't afford it,
> and I'm not up to speed with light conservation either :p
>
> Having your agility take a big hit and all of a sudden you are at -2
> speed was a killer to my last guy :)

You will get there :) it just takes a bit of adaptation

> Fun though.

Good to hear it.

A.

Roger

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Nov 28, 2007, 5:08:01 PM11/28/07
to
I was enjoying my first game until I descended to dungeon level 4 and
immediately found myself in a dead-end hallway with about 20 cave orcs
coming straight for me. Unfortunately I had already exhausted my only
two scrolls of Phase Door (killing Grip and Fang). I managed to kill
five or six of them before I went down...

Granted, that was some rather horrible luck to be dumped into a
completely no-win scenario, especially since the cave orcs were 4
levels out of depth...

Does Ironband always start the player in a dead-end hallway?

Antoine

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Nov 28, 2007, 6:12:37 PM11/28/07
to

Heh heh.

Ironband, like NPP, does seem to start you in a hallway. At deeper
levels it's safer than a room, to avoid the 'pack of gravity hounds'
scenario - but in the early game (before you can teleport) it can lead
to nasty situations.

200' at Ironband is more like 300' in Vanilla - so cave orcs are
uncommon but not unknown at that depth.

Anyway, bad luck, but have another go - your next @ may be more
fortunate!

A.


Andres Zanzani

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Dec 1, 2007, 11:52:52 AM12/1/07
to
> Hi
>
> Yeah, I hope we'll be able to figure out a fix. I'm not sure what the
> problem is. I've emailed Jeff (NPP maestro) to ask if he could take a
> look at this thread. I expect he'll have a better idea than I.
>
> A.


fixed. Was a problem on my side

thanks

BHH

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