Black Market
Rune Jarness
I'm like cruising at depths of 600 and each time I return to
the city, black market usually has got only low-level items,
all of which I can afford. I've seen 2 spellbooks,
'Grimoire' and 'Resistance of Scarabtrices' and a sword of flames
for about 20k which I bought. And, that's it really.
The shop has restocked allright, but most of it is just
junk. It feels funny, when you bring the best items for sale
and at this low-level.
oh-and lucky me, Wormtongue just dropped a Defender of sorts
:-)
Almost forgot, I'm playing 2.7.3 windows version.
Brian Collett
Jarness) wrote:
> Anyone else think the black market has few interesting items?
Yes, the latest changes (2.7.3) have made the black market pretty nearly
useless compared to earlier versions. It makes _no_ sense to have the
black market filled with stuff that you could buy far more cheaply in
other stores. In the past the black market appears to have had a MUCH
larger chance of having objects that do not appear in the other stores.
Money has become almost useless in the current version (except for buying
scrolls of identify for characters that do not have identify).
It is my belief that the Black Market should never carry items which are
available in any other shop at that time. A Black Marketeer would go out
of business in copule of days if all he ever did was sell the same stuff
as the other guys but for ten times the price! It does make sense that
some items which are temporarily out of stock in other stores should
appear in the Black Market (though not the junk weapons--you NEVER need a
particular junk weapon so badly that you pay their prices for it). After
all, if the temple has no potions of cure critical wounds you would
happily pay a premium at the black market for the safety they offer but
you would never pay Black Market prices for stuff that is available
elsewhere. The bigger problem, though, is that all the junk crowds out the
good stuff. In the past money was REALLY important until your stat's were
maxed because the more money you could collect the more chance you buy
stat gain potions in the Black Market. My two current 2.7.3 characters
have never seen any potion better than a charisma and only a couple of
those.
As has been said repeatedly, inventory management is a vital part of
Angband and playing money games has always been an important part of
that, at least below 2000', and it just isn't that way any more.
It may mostly reflect on the way I play but I see this as the one real
negative change in recent versions. I really like most the changes and
think that Ben is doing a fantastic job as maintainer but I do think he
has built the stingiest stores ever!
Ben Harrison
>In article <3l5ueg$a...@ratatosk.uninett.no>, ru...@bacchus.kih.no (Rune
>Jarness) wrote:
>> Anyone else think the black market has few interesting items?
> [... complaints about the black market ...]
>As has been said repeatedly, inventory management is a vital part of
>Angband and playing money games has always been an important part of
>that, at least below 2000', and it just isn't that way any more.
>It may mostly reflect on the way I play but I see this as the one real
>negative change in recent versions. I really like most the changes and
>think that Ben is doing a fantastic job as maintainer but I do think he
>has built the stingiest stores ever!
Well, it is kind of funny, the black market may be more stingy but the
other stores are less so. I guess the black market is the only one
that matters at high levels.
First, I am willing to hear alternative algorithms for black market
maintenance.
Note that the chances of getting a ring of speed are about the same
as before, since a ring of speed can *only* be created by getting a
"make a special object" roll.
Some people had expressed a desire that the black market be a place
where you can find *anything*, on the theory that such items should
end up somewhere.
One possible solution might be to have the black market refuse to sell
items that could be sold in other stores, though this is a subtle
issue, since the armor dude will sell "chain mail of resistance" but
not "black dragon scale mail". I would choose the scale mail...
--- Ben ---
REED J. HOLLANDER
>From: bcol...@hamilton.edu (Brian Collett)
>Subject: Re: Black Market
>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 10:18:57 -0500
Hear hear! I wholeheartedly agree. (I have no experience in programming,
so I am unable to offer any substantive suggestions for rewriting the code)
My 31st level mage has over 200000 gold and absolutely nothing to spend it
on. Rations of food for sale at 15/each is ridiculous.
Reed
Joseph William Dixon
make it choose a random dungeon level (say level 25 and deeper,) whenever
updated, and generate its stock as if it were that level? It'd be a bit
slower since you'd have to ignore any calls for artifacts and cursed items.
At the very least, it could make it more likely that a low-level
character might find a useful item in the Market early enough in the game
when they'll need it. [IMHO, once you hit 1000', you'd best have either
an artifact or <excellent> weapon if you want to survive any deeper]
--
###### Joseph W. Dixon ####### Gumby ####### aa...@cfn.cs.dal.ca #####
# Check out "http://www.cfn.cs.dal.ca/~aa343/Profile.html" for links #
# to official and unofficial collectable card game homepages... #
######################################################################
Brian Collett
be...@linc.cis.upenn.edu (Ben Harrison) wrote:
> Above, bcol...@hamilton.edu (Brian Collett) writes:
>
> >In article <3l5ueg$a...@ratatosk.uninett.no>, ru...@bacchus.kih.no (Rune
> >Jarness) wrote:
>
> >> Anyone else think the black market has few interesting items?
>
> > [... complaints about the black market ...]
>
> >As has been said repeatedly, inventory management is a vital part of
> >Angband and playing money games has always been an important part of
> >that, at least below 2000', and it just isn't that way any more.
>
> >It may mostly reflect on the way I play but I see this as the one real
> >negative change in recent versions. I really like most the changes and
> >think that Ben is doing a fantastic job as maintainer but I do think he
> >has built the stingiest stores ever!
>
> Well, it is kind of funny, the black market may be more stingy but the
> other stores are less so. I guess the black market is the only one
> that matters at high levels.
>
Yes to both of those. The increased ease of getting a lot of some of the
really important low-level items such as potions of cure serious and
scrolls of identify (though staves of perception are much rarer) makes
life a lot less tedious for low level non-mages. The increased numbers of
enchant scrolls is also a blessing to lower level characters victimised by
acid attacks (high level characters are usually pretty safe from these).
The current shops are _much_ nicer to low level characters which seems to
be a good thing. The Black Market is the only one that seems to have
suffered since it is now useful to neither low level chars--the stuff they
might afford is cheaper elsewhere--nor to high level ones--there is too
little good stuff.
<useful info and history deleted>
> One possible solution might be to have the black market refuse to sell
> items that could be sold in other stores, though this is a subtle
> issue, since the armor dude will sell "chain mail of resistance" but
> not "black dragon scale mail". I would choose the scale mail...
>
Yes, that is exactly the sort of thing I had in mind. My own preferences
would be for (in order)
a) The black market carries no item which is currently available in any
other store nor does it carry any item of armour or weaponry that would
appear as {average} to a warrior. That should free space for more really
useful stuff and put an end to the 99 Rations of food at 15 gp a piece
nonsense.
or
b) The black market carries no items that might appear in other stores.
The second one has a higher chance of producing better items since it
blocks the appearance of more items but I think the first is preferable
since it leaves you a chance of finding some eg. scrolls of identify even
though the alchemist is out of them (though you'll pay through the nose
for them). I have not considered deeply the coding implications of these
since I am a little intimidated by the size of the source but I will take
the time to study it a little and to think some more on this topic and try
to look at the ramifications of alterations in the shops.
Party Animal
>
> I wonder if it would be possible to add a flag to the Black Market to
>make it choose a random dungeon level (say level 25 and deeper,) whenever
>updated, and generate its stock as if it were that level? It'd be a bit
>slower since you'd have to ignore any calls for artifacts and cursed items.
> At the very least, it could make it more likely that a low-level
>character might find a useful item in the Market early enough in the game
>when they'll need it. [IMHO, once you hit 1000', you'd best have either
>an artifact or <excellent> weapon if you want to survive any deeper]
Are there really black market shops in the dungeons or is that just a
rumor that the shopkeeper keeps telling me.
Thanx in advance!
David L Evens
: Are there really black market shops in the dungeons or is that just a
: rumor that the shopkeeper keeps telling me.
No. That's NetHack.
--
---------------------------+--------------------------------------------------
Ring around the neutron, | "OK, so he's not terribly fearsome.
A pocket full of positrons,| But he certainly took us by surprise!"
A fission, a fusion, |
We all fall down! |
---------------------------+--------------------------------------------------
Roger Christman
>
>>> Anyone else think the black market has few interesting items?
>
>
>maintenance.
>
>where you can find *anything*, on the theory that such items should
>end up somewhere.
>
>One possible solution might be to have the black market refuse to sell
>items that could be sold in other stores, though this is a subtle
>issue, since the armor dude will sell "chain mail of resistance" but
>not "black dragon scale mail". I would choose the scale mail...
That change might go too far in the opposite direction.
I don't think that the Black Market should be selling a large
supply of DSM's, Raal's Tomes, etc.
Why not just use the 2.5.8 algorithm? I've certainly heard
fewer complaints about how things used to be. And besides,
it isn't hard to code... :)
Roger Christman
Dick Menninger
the Black Market changes in stock be based on a random
but reasonably deep level. While that is not a bad idea,
making it track your deepest level + offset has merits.
It puts another pressure on you to go deeper. Also,
artifacts that were missed could show up here. But stolen
goods showing up there always seemed right to me
(you could get that favorite thing back, but at a price!).
Good Day
Dick Menninger
Dick.Menninger.DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM
mcle...@stan.brandonu.ca
I saw mithrel plate mail of resist lightning (35+5) and a shield of deflection
of resistance (10+20). One thing is, I have *never* seen any DSM at the black
market that I didn't sell to it. I only sell to the black market when my in
inventory is overcrowded and the specialty shops are full. (my housre is
stricktly for one of a kind items that I cant wield for ome reason or another
(for example, a mace of morgul is rare, b ut "truly foul" or a weapon
like `haraketet' (the smicter. I know i spelled it wrong) when I have say,
Doomcaller, blade of cahos(:
Dont worry, be <-:)
Z" =x0
Josh Rodman
Dick Menninger <Dick.Me...@DaytonOH.ATTGIS.COM> wrote:
>Somewhere back in this thread, someone suggested that
>the Black Market changes in stock be based on a random
>but reasonably deep level. While that is not a bad idea,
>making it track your deepest level + offset has merits.
>It puts another pressure on you to go deeper. Also,
>artifacts that were missed could show up here. But stolen
>goods showing up there always seemed right to me
>(you could get that favorite thing back, but at a price!).
Oh, what a fabulous concept. Thing is of course, that theives would
be of very little threat to higher level people though, since after a
time you have more money than you need. Perhaps there would be a
_possibility_ of stolen objects appearing?
--
Serve the Computer.
The Computer is your friend.
Be a happy Alpha Complex citizen.
Jon Thackray
I -never- sell anything in the black market. When the regular shops get
full, I just drop down to 50' and rest for 1000 turns. On going back up,
I usually find some empty slots.
There are good reasons for selling in the Black Market rather than the
normal shop. The main one I can think of is when the article you have
for sale has a value exceeding the limit of the normal shop, and is
sufficiently valuable that the black market is prepared to offer more
than that limit (the black market limit is always 32000). For
instance, it is possible to end up with a temple limit of 3500. So if
you, as a non-priest type, happen to find wrath of god early on in the
game, it's no use to you, and you'll get more out of the black market
for it than the temple can pay. You may find similar problems with
high value DSMs, artefacts, weapons of westernesse etc.
--
Dr. Jon Thackray jo...@harlqn.co.uk 44 223 872522 (voice)
Harlequin Ltd. 44 223 872519 (fax)
Barrington Hall
Barrington
Cambridge CB2 5RG
England
Mike McCarty
<mcle...@stan.brandonu.ca> wrote:
[much gone]
)I saw mithrel plate mail of resist lightning (35+5) and a shield of deflection
)of resistance (10+20). One thing is, I have *never* seen any DSM at the black
)market that I didn't sell to it. I only sell to the black market when my in
)inventory is overcrowded and the specialty shops are full. (my housre is
)stricktly for one of a kind items that I cant wield for ome reason or another
)(for example, a mace of morgul is rare, b ut "truly foul" or a weapon
)like `haraketet' (the smicter. I know i spelled it wrong) when I have say,
)Doomcaller, blade of cahos(:
) Dont worry, be <-:)
)Z" =x0
I -never- sell anything in the black market. When the regular shops get
full, I just drop down to 50' and rest for 1000 turns. On going back up,
I usually find some empty slots.
Mike
----
char *p="char *p=%c%s%c;main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}";main(){printf(p,34,p,34);}
MpL
>
[extract]
>(the black market limit is always 32000). For
> instance, it is possible to end up with a temple limit of 3500.
[cut]
Both of them are not quite true. This depends on your version. In current
versions (2.7Š) the black market is often at 28800, the other shops are
at least at 10k.
Greetings,
MpL--Mario P. Laubacher
Peter Sierk
>In article <3lvdl9$8...@sun001.spd.dsccc.com> jmcc...@spd.dsccc.com (Mike McCarty) writes:
> I -never- sell anything in the black market. When the regular shops get
> full, I just drop down to 50' and rest for 1000 turns. On going back up,
> I usually find some empty slots.
Instead of wasting my time with that, sometimes I just buy whatever
is cheapest to free up a slot. Spending 12 coins on a dagger or whatever
won't break me when I'm selling a 5000 coin weapon. Doesn't particularly
matter, though.
>There are good reasons for selling in the Black Market rather than the
>normal shop. The main one I can think of is when the article you have
>for sale has a value exceeding the limit of the normal shop, and is
>sufficiently valuable that the black market is prepared to offer more
>than that limit (the black market limit is always 32000). For
>instance, it is possible to end up with a temple limit of 3500. So if
>you, as a non-priest type, happen to find wrath of god early on in the
>game, it's no use to you, and you'll get more out of the black market
>for it than the temple can pay. You may find similar problems with
>high value DSMs, artefacts, weapons of westernesse etc.
>--
I hated having a weapon dealer with a limit of 3000. Hard to save
up $ for that RofS when your defenders and avengers maxxed out at that.
Don't know how much the Black Market would've given, though.