Tales of the Bold [V3.0.4]
Eddie Grove
Some time back, David Grabiner posted the Arch-mage's Tale. I intend
to do something similar, but yet quite different. I find the usual
advice in this group to be ridiculously conservative. This is my
attempt to give a flavor of what it is like to play agressively.
My tales will come from an actual game, or more likely games :). I
will stick to the highlights, and ignore the basic stuff. When
feasible I will write in the role-playing style, but I am describing a
game and some things don't translate out of game terms and I won't try
to do so.
Each post will essentially summarise one trip down and [hopefully]
back, ending with a dump after selling everything and prepping for the
next trip. If enough people complain via email, I will make fewer
posts with more tales and less dumps.
In the tales, I will use abbreviations without explanation. For
example, ?dObj is either a scroll of detect object or the action of
reading such a scroll. I might write "Gorlim gets too close and I
?phase." I refuse to call staves of perception as such, and will
write "I _id the potion." The one difficulty is that both wands and
rods are '-', so I use single "-" for rods and double "--" for wands.
So I can ?recharge a --tOther, but not a -tOther [those are teleport
other, hopefully everything will be clear in context].
The monster AI is on, except double spell-casting is off. Stairs are
disconnected, so I won't be tempted to play optimally with repeated
"<>" ad infinitum. Autoscum on, dungeon alignment off.
In addition, I have certain idiosyncracies. I consider the existence
of LOS-abuse, hack-and-back, pillardancing, and the like to be bugs in
the code. I refuse to take advantage of such bugs. E.g., I only
spell/shoot Q's and druj's if they have reverse LOS. I plan to write
a patch/variant where diggers are not allowed, so I only dig/stone2mud
for the purpose of getting from point A to point B, as in entering a
vault. In particular, I no longer make Anti-Summoning-Corridors.
Here's to hoping fortune favors the bold.
Eddie
Eddie Grove
STARTING OUT
I start with a point-based Dunadan Warrior with base 16 Str/Dex/Con.
I sell the starting sword and !berserk to buy ?recall, which is nicely
on sale. I also purchase !hero, !CSW, a lantern, 2 ?phase, and 2 ?id.
I explore each level, ignoring sleeping monsters and killing those
that come after me, until I find the way down to the next level. My
first serious fight is against lice in a corridor with some jogs. I
am down from 64 to 33 before I kill them all. I go on, not bothering
to rest. I ?id a ring, =sDig. On the first trip, ?id is precious,
and I only use one on a ring or amulet. I quaff potions and eat
mushrooms when not at full hitpoints to test them out.
On dLevel 6, when I step onto the stairs I see a lit room, and I take
a few steps to check it out before descent. This is the first time I
have stepped past any downstairs. I go grab a potion and smallsword,
and then snagas attack. There is little point in fighting them, so I
run back to the stairs taking a few hits on the way. Fights are to be
avoided when possible.
I should mention that when possible I explore top to bottom rather
than left to right, which is more efficient because you take fewer
steps. I never bother with Search mode, it slows you down and lets
monsters catch up with you. Traps are not that big a deal early on.
On 7, I notice a whip I picked up somewhere is excellent, so I switch
to it and throw away my dagger. There is no point in identifying it,
?id is too precious, as I mentioned before. On 8, I kill an
orcShaman, and it drops or was sitting on mithrilPlate! I kill Fang
on 9. On 10, I notice that the mithrilPlate is average and I wield
it. I test a potion that turns out to be weakness, drop to 3 blows
and am slowed. I will have to start dropping average weapons to keep
my weight down.
I fight through some hillOrcs to face Grishnakh on 11, and he is doing
more damage to me than I to him. I ?phase and !hero and wish I had a
missile weapon. I kill Grishnakh, but will I survive the remaining
escort so that I can go pick up the drop? I do, and am slowed by all
I carry. I need to find the stairs so I can test out my staves. If
you stand on the stairs, even a staff of summoning isn't too deadly to
test, since you can escape in one turn. One tested staff is _dObj,
and it shows me a new ring. That is worth a time-wasting detour
before going down. I get it, and then drop to 12, where _dObj shows
nothing, so I ?recall to sell the heavy valuables.
I sell the wimpy rings, =sDig and =FF, and an average battleaxe to buy
_id. I _id everything not average except _dObj, and also _id the
mithrilPlate. Then I sell most stuff, including --sleep, --slow,
--confuse, and the now-empty _id. The market has !int for 75% off,
which is a great bargain, but while I could afford it intelligence
isn't so important, and I choose to get _tSelf instead. It is vital
to have a means of escape, and teleport self is the best choice
available. I do buy the 7 !dInv at the market. Hopefully that will
suffice until I get a permanent source of SI. I buy a !CCW so I will
know it when I see it in the dungeon. It is useful to buy new items
from the shops so you recognize them without need id in the dungeon.
I have 5794 gold when I enter the alchemy shop. I buy out ?dObj,
?recharge, ?+hit, ?phase, and a !rStr to get my 4th blow back. I will
always buy out those scrolls. Unfortunately my remaining 3430 is not
enough to buy out ?recall and ?id. I decide to spend half on each. I
leave =rFire and "rElec at home. I need money badly, so I keep every
open slot I can, and resistances are not yet important. I also will
only take down one ?recall so that when I read it to return I will
have another free slot for a valuable. I save the ?+hit for later. I
will surely replace the whip before long.
48201 game turns spent.
[Angband 3.0.4 Character Dump]
Name Araguince Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Male Age 68 STR: 16 +1 +5 +0 18/40
Race Dunadan Height 76 INT: 10 +2 -2 +0 10
Class Warrior Weight 167 WIS: 10 +2 -2 +2 12
Title Swordsman Status 44 Dex: 16 +2 +2 +0 18/20 18/10
HP 156/156 Maximize Y CON: 16 +3 +2 +0 18/30
SP 0/0 Preserve Y CHR: 10 +2 -1 +0 11
Level 12 Armor [42,+10] Saving Throw Very Good
Cur Exp 1286 Fight (+1,+3) Stealth Fair
Max Exp 1286 Melee (+6,+10) Fighting Superb
Adv Exp 1530 Shoot (+1,+0) Shooting Superb
MaxDepth Lev 12 Blows 4/turn Disarming Good
Gold 23 Shots 0/turn Magic Device Good
Perception Poor
Burden 88.0 lbs Infra 0 ft Searching Poor
You are one of several children of a Townsman. You are a credit to
the family. You have dark brown eyes, wavy black hair, and a fair
complexion.
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Acid:............. Blind:.............
Elec:............. Confu:.............
Fire:............. Sound:.............
Cold:............. Shard:.............
Pois:............. Nexus:.............
Fear:............. Nethr:.............
Lite:............. Chaos:.............
Dark:............. Disen:.............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
S.Dig:............. Stea.:.............
Feath:............. Sear.:.............
PLite:............. Infra:.............
Regen:............. Tunn.:.............
Telep:............. Speed:.............
Invis:............. Blows:.............
FrAct:............. Shots:.............
HLife:............. Might:.............
[Character Equipment]
a) a Whip (Blessed) (1d3) (+5,+7) (+2)
It increases your wisdom by 2. It is blessed by the gods. It might
have hidden powers.
b) (nothing)
c) (nothing)
d) (nothing)
e) (nothing)
f) a Brass Lantern (with 2766 turns of light)
It cannot be harmed by fire.
g) Mithril Plate Mail (-3) [35,+0]
It cannot be harmed by acid.
h) (nothing)
i) a Small Leather Shield [2,+2]
j) a Hard Leather Cap [2,+5]
k) (nothing)
l) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots [3,+1]
[Character Inventory]
a) a Ration of Food
b) a Flask of oil
c) 3 Potions of Detect Invisible
d) 2 Potions of Cure Serious Wounds
e) 14 Scrolls of Phase Door
f) 3 Scrolls of Phase Door {10% off}
g) 2 Scrolls of Word of Recall {!*}
h) 29 Scrolls of Identify {@r1}
i) a Rod of Trap Location {@z1}
j) a Staff of Teleportation (8 charges) {!* 8}
k) a Staff of Object Location
[Home Inventory]
a) 4 Potions of Detect Invisible
b) a Potion of Cure Critical Wounds
c) 7 Scrolls of Word of Recall {!*}
d) 4 Scrolls of Enchant Weapon To-Hit
e) 4 Scrolls of Recharging
f) 8 Scrolls of Object Detection
g) a Ring of Resist Fire
It provides resistance to fire. It cannot be harmed by fire.
h) an Amulet of Resist Lightning
It provides resistance to lightning. It cannot be harmed by
electricity.
[Options]
Adult: Allow purchase of stats using points : yes (adult_point_based)
Adult: Allow specification of minimal stats : no (adult_auto_roller)
Adult: Maximize effect of race/class bonuses : yes (adult_maximize)
Adult: Preserve artifacts when leaving level : yes (adult_preserve)
Adult: Restrict the use of stairs/recall : no (adult_ironman)
Adult: Restrict the use of stores/home : no (adult_no_stores)
Adult: Restrict creation of artifacts : no (adult_no_artifacts)
Adult: Randomize some of the artifacts (beta): no (adult_rand_artifacts)
Adult: Don't stack objects on the floor : no (adult_no_stacking)
Score: Peek into object creation : no (score_peek)
Score: Peek into monster creation : no (score_hear)
Score: Peek into dungeon creation : no (score_room)
Score: Peek into something else : no (score_xtra)
Score: Know complete monster info : no (score_know)
Score: Allow player to avoid death : no (score_live)
Paul Moore
> Some time back, David Grabiner posted the Arch-mage's Tale. I intend
> to do something similar, but yet quite different. I find the usual
> advice in this group to be ridiculously conservative. This is my
> attempt to give a flavor of what it is like to play agressively.
Cool! Can you archive these somewhere? I'd hate to miss some. My play
style is far too conservative, and I'd love to see "how the other half
live".
Paul.
Rubinstein
> On 10, I notice that the mithrilPlate is average and I wield it...
> ...
> I _id everything not average except _dObj, and also _id the
> mithrilPlate.
Just curious: Why, when you already know it's average?
Btw, thanks in advance for your tales, I'm sure I'll enjoy them very much!
Rubinstein
Eddie Grove
> Eddie Grove wrote:
>
> > On 10, I notice that the mithrilPlate is average and I wield it...
> > ...
> > I _id everything not average except _dObj, and also _id the
> > mithrilPlate.
>
> Just curious: Why, when you already know it's average?
So that you keep track of enchant/disenchant/acid. Ok, acid doesn't
count on mithril, but you get the point. I planned on keeping it, so
eventually I would care. It is low priority, but maybe worth doing.
Since I had _id[1] that I wanted to sell at the time, it was clear.
Eddie
Neodymium
rec.games.roguelike.angband, Eddie Grove <eddie...@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com>
set up us this post:
> In addition, I have certain idiosyncracies. I consider the existence
> of LOS-abuse, hack-and-back, pillardancing, and the like to be bugs in
> the code. I refuse to take advantage of such bugs. E.g., I only
> spell/shoot Q's and druj's if they have reverse LOS. I plan to write
> a patch/variant where diggers are not allowed, so I only dig/stone2mud
> for the purpose of getting from point A to point B, as in entering a
> vault. In particular, I no longer make Anti-Summoning-Corridors.
>
> Here's to hoping fortune favors the bold.
Your fights with summoning uniques are going to get very messy. Planning
on a lot of teleportation, or even *destruction* usage?
You'll have to run away and flee levels a lot. If you can win I'll be
*very* impressed. If you do it with preserve off you deserve a trophy.
This one, to be precise:
{}
/ \
/| |\
(_| EG |_)
\ /
)(
_|__|_
_|_for__|_
_|excellence|_
__|_and_using_the|__
|_angband_wizard_mode|
;)
--
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
Palladium? key escrow? DRM? FBI? Microsoft? Sauron.
"One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them
One ring to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them."
Neodymium
this post:
> Eddie Grove <eddie...@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> writes:
As I don't see "X-No-Archive: Yes" in his headers anywhere, Google will
archive them.
Neodymium
this post:
> Eddie Grove wrote:
>
>> On 10, I notice that the mithrilPlate is average and I wield it...
>> ...
>> I _id everything not average except _dObj, and also _id the
>> mithrilPlate.
>
> Just curious: Why, when you already know it's average?
Probably so the AC and other displays accurately reflect what he's got.
Rubinstein
> Rubinstein <picom...@t-online.de> writes:
>
>> Eddie Grove wrote:
>>
>> > [_iding a mithrilPlate]
>>
>> Just curious: Why, when you already know it's average?
>
> So that you keep track of enchant/disenchant/acid. Ok, acid doesn't
> count on mithril, but you get the point. I planned on keeping it, so
> eventually I would care.
Ah, yes, got the point. It seems you don't care much about the (-3)
penalty if you actually planned on keeping it. Interesting...
Rubinstein
Ceilti OCahill
I'm glad you're doing this. I really enjoyed the other's that were posted.
I find them in general to be interesting, and in a lot cases informative.
I really enjoy reading them. Thanks in advance.
Ceilti
The only truth is the stars in the heavens, and all that lies beneath is
interpretation.
William Peterson
info about your style ever since the competition. Was almost ready to
email, but I think this topic will answer most of my questions.
Why Dunaden rather than High Elf? HE saves you the hassle of not
having SI for just a small hit in CON.
What if you start a character and stores don't stock things like
lanterns or cheap weapons or ID? Reroll or tough it out? I ran into
the problem while trying ironman priests and not having second
spellbook available.
I thought I'd read one of your earlier posts advocating autoscum off.
Seems like it would be easier to dive through boring levels. Is it on
for toughness or some other reason? I assume you're using it as a
birth option and won't turn it off further down in the dungeon.
You know you can stop stair scumming the same way you stopped LOS
abuse - just say no. Are you not concerned about losing a developed
character to some RNG madness like a room full of balrogs at the foot
of the stairs? You could play that up staircases are only to be used
for escape and you must immediately go back down. I believe Ingband
was made to support that idea, you could take an up staircase but
there wasn't anything on the level.
I notice you're IDing everything when you get to town and find enough
scrolls. One of the techniques I used in ironman and continue when
playing warriors is to ID only excellent or special items, or good if
I'm in town and want to sell it. You can always replace average items
with good and good with excellent in the dungeon, and diving fast I
find it doesn't take long before I'm crushing most average and good
items. If I notice that something has been damaged, or even not, I'll
replace something good with another good find and rely on the RNG to
assure that, on average, I'm increasing my AC.
Looking forward to further posts.
Bill
Eddie Grove
PAN AND SCAN
I return to the dungeon, and now pay careful attention to the map
sector from 'L'. When both coords are even, I -dTraps and _dObj. It
is often necessary to scroll the screen using 'L' to get the detection
done as soon as possible. Simply put, you want to make as efficient
use of detection as possible.
Always look for the way down, but be willing to make detours to pick
up new flavors of objects. It not worth going far out of the way to
pick up weapons or armor, unless there is a weapon with extra dice.
Something invisible keeps stealing a few gold and blipping off,
presumably Smeagol, not worth using !dInv. I have only 7 potions to
use until I get SI, however deep that may be, so I hoard them. I
continue to test items by using them, and on 13 ?tSelf means I have to
find downstairs a second time. I decide this marks the end of the
"test to id" phase. I don't want to waste any more useful items.
There is only one bad rod in Vanilla, -polymorph, so it is pretty safe
to zap unknown rods to test them out. I will use id on any other
unknown flavors.
15 is a destructed level, and in my annoyance I get careless and
forget to -dTraps. A trap weakens me, and I am down to 3 blows again.
I kill a bunch of kobolds, not bothering to !CSW even when confused.
They are for curing confusion, but only when it matters. Sure enough
Mughash shows up eventually, but he drops nothing of note. Later on
15, I kill a yeek and "it summons animals". I _tSelf, and end up back
in the destructed zone. What a pain. But now I have _dStairs, so I
find a way down easily. I try to disarm a summoning rune on 16, fail,
and it hardly seems fair to get oodles of energyHounds in addition to
other nasties. The second try to _tSelf saves the day, but I am
significantly down on hitpoints. Even so, I do not bother to waste
time resting.
Something invisible slows me on 17, but I can get to the stairs, so I
do not have to bother with !dInv. By the time I find the stairs from
18 to 19, I have almost recovered from the lightning breaths on 16. I
find Holhenneth on the ground on 21! I put it on and ?recall.
Perhaps now is a good time to hope FA is for sale in town.
No FA for sale. The cheap !int is still for sale at 6800, and I have
7650, but there is a resistanceShield for sale for 17K that tempts me
momentarily. I forgo hopes for both, choosing instead to get
heavyXbow+7+4 for about 5K from the market. Then, I bump into Maggot
and he gives me a lance worth 700. I buy !bold, ?rCurse, and ?bless
from the temple since I have never seen them up close. I really want
!hero, but none is for sale.
In the early parts of the game, except of course for lucky finds like
Holhenneth, the main import is identifying flavors and buying the
right stuff in town. The things that typify my style are that I dive
rather than fighting, and I don't rest unless it seems absolutely
necessary. If it is an easy fight, it's not worth mentioning, and
hard fights are to be avoided. That's why there is so little mention
here of combat.
I am getting deep, so I wield my items with elemental resists.
Still at 3 blows, no FA. I will have to be careful.
86452 game turns.
[Angband 3.0.4 Character Dump]
Name Araguince Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Male Age 68 Str: 16 +1 +5 +0 18/40 18/30
Race Dunadan Height 76 INT: 10 +2 -2 +2 12
Class Warrior Weight 167 WIS: 10 +2 -2 +4 14
Title Swashbuckler Status 44 Dex: 16 +2 +2 +0 18/20 18/10
HP 243/243 Maximize Y CON: 16 +3 +2 +0 18/30
SP 0/0 Preserve Y CHR: 10 +2 -1 +0 11
Level 18 Armor [48,+17] Saving Throw Excellent
Cur Exp 5442 Fight (+1,+3) Stealth Fair
Max Exp 5442 Melee (+6,+10) Fighting Heroic
Adv Exp 6480 Shoot (+8,+4) Shooting Heroic
MaxDepth Lev 21 Blows 3/turn Disarming Very Good
Gold 2540 Shots 1/turn Magic Device Very Good
Perception Fair
Burden 121.1 lbs Infra 0 ft Searching Fair
You are one of several children of a Townsman. You are a credit to
the family. You have dark brown eyes, wavy black hair, and a fair
complexion.
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Acid:............. Blind:.............
Elec:....+........ Confu:.............
Fire:...+......... Sound:.............
Cold:............. Shard:.............
Pois:............. Nexus:.............
Fear:............. Nethr:.............
Lite:............. Chaos:.............
Dark:............. Disen:.............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
S.Dig:............. Stea.:.............
Feath:............. Sear.:.........+...
PLite:............. Infra:.............
Regen:............. Tunn.:.............
Telep:............. Speed:.............
Invis:............. Blows:.............
FrAct:............. Shots:.............
HLife:............. Might:.............
[Character Equipment]
a) a Whip (Blessed) (1d3) (+5,+7) (+2)
It increases your wisdom by 2. It is blessed by the gods. It might
have hidden powers.
b) a Heavy Crossbow (x4) (+7,+4)
c) (nothing)
d) a Ring of Resist Fire
It provides resistance to fire. It cannot be harmed by fire.
e) an Amulet of Resist Lightning
It provides resistance to lightning. It cannot be harmed by
electricity.
f) a Brass Lantern (with 8090 turns of light)
It cannot be harmed by fire.
g) Mithril Plate Mail (-3) [35,+1]
It cannot be harmed by acid.
h) a Cloak [1,+0]
i) a Small Leather Shield [2,+2]
j) The Iron Helm 'Holhenneth' [5,+10] (+2)
It increases your intelligence and wisdom by 2. It increases your
searching by 2. It cannot be harmed by the elements. It might have
hidden powers.
k) a Set of Gauntlets [2,+0]
l) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots [3,+2]
[Character Inventory]
a) a Potion of Boldness
b) 4 Potions of Cure Serious Wounds
c) 8 Scrolls of Phase Door {10% off}
d) 3 Scrolls of Word of Recall {!*}
e) 10 Scrolls of Identify
f) 10 Scrolls of Object Detection
g) a Scroll of Blessing
h) a Rod of Trap Location {@z1}
i) a Staff of Teleportation (6 charges) {!* 6}
j) a Staff of Perception (5 charges)
k) a Staff of Light (9 charges)
l) 27 Bolts (1d5) (+0,+0) {@f1 =g}
[Home Inventory]
a) 7 Potions of Detect Invisible
b) 3 Potions of Resist Heat {40% off}
c) 3 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
d) 11 Scrolls of Phase Door
e) 7 Scrolls of Word of Recall {!*}
f) 4 Scrolls of Enchant Weapon To-Hit
g) 4 Scrolls of Recharging
h) 40 Bolts (1d5) (+0,+0) {@f1 =g}
Eddie Grove
> Why Dunaden rather than High Elf? HE saves you the hassle of not
> having SI for just a small hit in CON.
It's all about CON. Given the choice of rLight versus sCon, sCon
wins too. To repeat, CON CON CON CON CON.
Also, you can start with 4 blows point-based with Str16/Dex16 base.
With a High Elf, I think you have to start unbalanced to get 4 blows.
> What if you start a character and stores don't stock things like
> lanterns or cheap weapons or ID? Reroll or tough it out? I ran into
> the problem while trying ironman priests and not having second
> spellbook available.
I do insist on 1 ?recall, or I quit. Otherwise, I tough it out, but
that just means a fairly quick death most of the time. Death isn't
that big a deal to me. There is usually a lesson to be learned, and
those who die often should improve faster than those who think they
can avoid risk.
> I thought I'd read one of your earlier posts advocating autoscum off.
> Seems like it would be easier to dive through boring levels. Is it on
> for toughness or some other reason? I assume you're using it as a
> birth option and won't turn it off further down in the dungeon.
Everyone else seems to use autoscum on, so I am going with the crowd.
I haven't made up my mind if it makes the game easier for a diver.
The real reason is that I didn't bother to change the settings [except
for no randarts] from my savefile I used for comp 16.
> You know you can stop stair scumming the same way you stopped LOS
> abuse - just say no. Are you not concerned about losing a developed
> character to some RNG madness like a room full of balrogs at the foot
> of the stairs?
Connected stairs make no sense on so many levels that IMO the only
reason to use them is if you plan to abuse them. If I actually choose
to enable them, I cannot pretend they are a bug and ignore them.
I also believe in the existence of insta-death on level-change. It
gives an incentive minimize level-changes, which means faster diving.
That's a good thing IMO.
> I notice you're IDing everything when you get to town and find enough
I think you are missing a subtlety. There is a difference between
charges in an _id you plan to carry and one you plan not to carry. If
you are choosing between good armors, you need to have identified
both. So "excess" id in town should sometimes be used on good items.
Eddie
Neodymium
> Connected stairs make no sense on so many levels that IMO the only
> reason to use them is if you plan to abuse them. If I actually choose
> to enable them, I cannot pretend they are a bug and ignore them.
They make no sense?
If I went down the stairs in my house and found myself in the middle of the
basement with the stairs back up on the other side of the place, I'd think
*that* made no sense.
Martin Read
>In 2101, war was beginning and we got signal. In
>rec.games.roguelike.angband, Eddie Grove <eddie...@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com>
>set up us this post:
>
>> Connected stairs make no sense on so many levels that IMO the only
>> reason to use them is if you plan to abuse them. If I actually choose
>> to enable them, I cannot pretend they are a bug and ignore them.
>
>They make no sense?
>
>If I went down the stairs in my house and found myself in the middle of the
>basement with the stairs back up on the other side of the place, I'd think
>*that* made no sense.
No, he's actually got a point.
The stairs in your house that go to the basement, when you go back up
them from your basement, you get to your house again.
Go down an Angband-stair, and when you go back up it, you're somewhere
*totally different*.
m. (I play with connected stairs anyway. If they diked it out, I now
think I'd just start scumming the BM for teleport level scrolls.)
--
\_\/_/| Martin Read - my opinions are my own. share them if you wish.
\ / | She comes like heaven sent her / Like Jesus died upon the cross /
\/ | Such cost / Such loss / She's almost everywhere
------+ -- The Faces Of Sarah, "Fatalistic Warning"
Atrielv
Cool post :)
but... AS corridors are not an abuse...
I think it would be just "terrain adjust for your advantage"....
and any good her would do that if allowed against monsters
that summon hordes in "real life".... I would face my enemy in a
place the size of my bathroom if posible, and with only one
way in.
--
I will hold the candle till it burns up my arm.
I'll keep taking punches until their will grows tired.
I will stare the sun down until my eyes go blind.
I won't change direction and I won't change my mind...
How much difference does it make?
Chris Kern
<eddie...@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> posted the following:
>
>Some time back, David Grabiner posted the Arch-mage's Tale. I intend
>to do something similar, but yet quite different. I find the usual
>advice in this group to be ridiculously conservative. This is my
>attempt to give a flavor of what it is like to play agressively.
I have long argued for playing aggressively, especially mages. I
found that once I started crash-diving with mages right from the
start, the survivability increased dramatically from when I just hung
around on 50' forever. Magic missile is an incredibly powerful spell.
-Chris
Eddie Grove
HYDRAS ARE TOO TOUGH
I come down in a room with sleeping blackOrcs. I try to fight one at
a time, but they wake up and I must _tSelf. I ?dObj assorted items of
interest, but cannot find my way to them. I explore, looking for a
path to them, but I end up far away with a trapdoor blocking the
corridor. Rather than disarm it, I jump down. I float, so I know my
whip's hidden power is FF. I land in a corridor between a 3headHydra
and a line of forestTrolls, and I _tSelf. I find the stairs quickly
and do not see them again. I fight hordes of wimps (noviceRogues,
phaseSpiders, etc) and then Golfimbul in what turns out to be the moat
of a 2x2 room [4 equal rectangular compartments inside a moat]. A
3headHydra gets between me and the stairs. I cannot get around it
even after multiple ?phasing, so I ?recall. An uneventful trip.
I decide I really want the resistanceShield I saw last time that is
still for sale at the armoury. Along with the treasure I brought
back, I can sell my mithrilPlate for enough to get it. It's hard to
believe I am carrying !bold, but I still haven't amassed any !hero.
Still 3 blows, no FA. 99993 game turns.
[Angband 3.0.4 Character Dump]
Name Araguince Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Male Age 68 Str: 16 +1 +5 +0 18/40 18/30
Race Dunadan Height 76 INT: 10 +2 -2 +2 12
Class Warrior Weight 167 WIS: 10 +2 -2 +4 14
Title Swashbuckler Status 44 Dex: 16 +2 +2 +0 18/20 18/10
HP 269/269 Maximize Y CON: 16 +3 +2 +0 18/30
SP 0/0 Preserve Y CHR: 10 +2 -1 +0 11
Level 20 Armor [26,+23] Saving Throw Excellent
Cur Exp 8591 Fight (+2,+3) Stealth Fair
Max Exp 8591 Melee (+7,+10) Fighting Heroic
Adv Exp 9720 Shoot (+9,+4) Shooting Heroic
MaxDepth Lev 23 Blows 3/turn Disarming Very Good
Gold 43 Shots 1/turn Magic Device Very Good
Perception Fair
Burden 124.1 lbs Infra 0 ft Searching Fair
You are one of several children of a Townsman. You are a credit to
the family. You have dark brown eyes, wavy black hair, and a fair
complexion.
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Acid:........+.... Blind:.............
Elec:........+.... Confu:.............
Fire:........+.... Sound:.............
Cold:........+.... Shard:.............
Pois:............. Nexus:.............
Fear:............. Nethr:.............
Lite:............. Chaos:.............
Dark:............. Disen:.............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
S.Dig:............. Stea.:.............
Feath:............. Sear.:.........+...
PLite:............. Infra:.............
Regen:............. Tunn.:.............
Telep:............. Speed:.............
Invis:............. Blows:.............
FrAct:............. Shots:.............
HLife:............. Might:.............
[Character Equipment]
a) a Whip (Blessed) (1d3) (+5,+7) (+2) {+5+7 FF}
It increases your wisdom by 2. It is blessed by the gods. It might
have hidden powers.
b) a Heavy Crossbow (x4) (+7,+4)
c) (nothing)
d) (nothing)
e) (nothing)
f) a Brass Lantern (with 6734 turns of light)
It cannot be harmed by fire.
g) Metal Scale Mail (-2) [13,+2] {golf23}
h) a Cloak [1,+0]
i) a Small Leather Shield of Resistance [2,+9]
It provides resistance to acid, lightning, fire, and cold. It cannot
be harmed by the elements.
j) The Iron Helm 'Holhenneth' [5,+10] (+2)
It increases your intelligence and wisdom by 2. It increases your
searching by 2. It cannot be harmed by the elements. It might have
hidden powers.
k) a Set of Gauntlets [2,+0]
l) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots [3,+0]
[Character Inventory]
a) a Potion of Boldness
b) 12 Potions of Cure Serious Wounds
c) 8 Scrolls of Phase Door
d) 2 Scrolls of Phase Door {10% off}
e) 6 Scrolls of Word of Recall {!*}
f) 22 Scrolls of Identify {@r1}
g) 13 Scrolls of Magic Mapping
h) 5 Scrolls of Object Detection
i) 2 Scrolls of Monster Confusion
j) a Rod of Trap Location {@z1}
k) a Staff of Teleportation (4 charges) {!* 4}
l) a Staff of Object Location
m) 18 Bolts (1d5) (+0,+0) {@f1 =g}
[Home Inventory]
a) 3 Potions of Resist Heat {40% off}
b) 3 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
c) 11 Scrolls of Phase Door
d) 7 Scrolls of Word of Recall {!*}
e) 4 Scrolls of Enchant Weapon To-Hit
f) 4 Scrolls of Recharging
g) a Rod of Acid Balls
William Peterson
> wpete...@socal.rr.com (William Peterson) writes:
>
> > Why Dunaden rather than High Elf? HE saves you the hassle of not
> > having SI for just a small hit in CON.
>
> It's all about CON. Given the choice of rLight versus sCon, sCon
> wins too. To repeat, CON CON CON CON CON.
>
> Also, you can start with 4 blows point-based with Str16/Dex16 base.
> With a High Elf, I think you have to start unbalanced to get 4 blows.
>
+2 for Dunaden. So tradeoff is SI vs. sCON and +1 CON. I'll continue
to play HE for now but will read your commentaries and pay attention
to how CON affects the play.
>
> I also believe in the existence of insta-death on level-change. It
> gives an incentive minimize level-changes, which means faster diving.
> That's a good thing IMO.
>
I think you mean to discourage using "<" - is that the point? Your
whole approach is based on using ">" as often as possible.
> > I notice you're IDing everything when you get to town and find enough
>
> I think you are missing a subtlety. There is a difference between
> charges in an _id you plan to carry and one you plan not to carry. If
> you are choosing between good armors, you need to have identified
> both. So "excess" id in town should sometimes be used on good items.
>
Good point. I'm noticing similarities between quick diving and
ironman, like eating/quaffing/reading to ID things. But ID in town
isn't as precious as ID in the dungeon.
Bill
Eddie Grove
> I think you mean to discourage using "<" - is that the point? Your
> whole approach is based on using ">" as often as possible.
No, that isn't true. To get to level 95, I would like to use '>' and
trapdoors precisely 95 times with minimal recalls. It won't happen,
but it would be ideal. If you play levels repeatedly, you use '>'
hundreds of times to get to 95.
Eddie
Jonathan Ellis
nah... you just use WoR hundreds of times. I don't believe I've used
an up staircase deeper than 400' more than ten times in my entire
Angbanding career. (Although I have walked up eight levels to the
surface to sell loot before, because a fire salamander burnt my last
scroll of WoR at a time when I could only afford two or three because
I spent the rest of my cash on Rings of See Invis and Free Action from
the BM. Below that, I'd carry on and hope to find another before
dying.)
Jonathan.
Igenlode Wordsmith
>
> STARTING OUT
>
>
> I start with a point-based Dunadan Warrior with base 16 Str/Dex/Con.
> I sell the starting sword and !berserk to buy ?recall, which is nicely
> on sale. I also purchase !hero, !CSW, a lantern, 2 ?phase, and 2 ?id.
[snip]
> I have 5794 gold when I enter the alchemy shop.
How on earth do you get so much money? I play pretty rapidly - though
*I* consider point-based and auto-roller abuse to be cheating, so tend
to spend the entire game up to stat gain with 'only' one or two blows!
- rarely clearing levels, often getting paralysed and somehow surviving
below 'FA depth', sell almost everything I come across in the first six
levels or so, equip myself almost entirely with armour from the dungeon
floor (on average ending up with one cursed item...) and am perpetually
short of cash for most of the start of the game. The only time I'm even
vaguely rich is when there are no Scrolls of Recall to be had, so I
*walk* down ten levels or so to economise on my stock, picking up
treasure along the way :-)
I always assumed chronic poverty was part of the resource-management
aspect of the game and endemic to non-scummers...
(Can one get four blows, even with a whip, given the stated STR/DEX of
16?)
--
<Igenl...@nym.alias.net>
Next to the RNG, the keyboard buffer probably kills more Angband
characters than people realize.
Eddie Grove
> On 29 Mar 2004 Eddie Grove wrote:
> > I have 5794 gold when I enter the alchemy shop.
> How on earth do you get so much money?
Excellent items are maybe 3K. Get a couple. Staves go for maybe 800,
get several. Down at 500' a little luck will see you through. I
wrote "I sell most stuff, including --sleep, --slow, --confuse" which
have base price of 500 each. I might have gotten "lucky" with
Grishnakh for something of slayOrc or the like, I don't remember.
On the first trip, it is often right to sell "good" bits of armor.
> *I* consider point-based and auto-roller abuse to be cheating, so tend
Then you are doomed to tedium.
I don't see why patience pressing 'r' and 'p' to re-roll is an
important part of the game, but if you think it is, do what you gotta
do. Optimal play is probably to re-roll for about 2 or 3 hours,
keeping the best character. I would guess that amount of time will
easily pay off in a shorter total time to get through stat gain.
> (Can one get four blows, even with a whip, given the stated STR/DEX of
> 16?)
That's base, before race and class modifiers. That's what the dumps
are for. Look down the post and see the stats and the 4 blows.
Eddie
Martin Read
>nah... you just use WoR hundreds of times. I don't believe I've used
>an up staircase deeper than 400' more than ten times in my entire
>Angbanding career.
In the days before recall could be reset, I did a fair bit of going up
when various leveltele effects bounced me down to my panic depth (1800'
or so) while I was statgaining.
I'm playing my O derivative now (ah, the joys of variant dev) and really
must start playing something other than HE mages.
m.
Wim Benthem
>Eddie Grove <eddie...@hot.NOSPAM.mail.com> wrote in message news:<m3hdw7q...@localhost.localdomain>...
>> wpete...@socal.rr.com (William Peterson) writes:
>>
>> > Why Dunaden rather than High Elf? HE saves you the hassle of not
>> > having SI for just a small hit in CON.
>>
>> It's all about CON. Given the choice of rLight versus sCon, sCon
>> wins too. To repeat, CON CON CON CON CON.
>>
>> Also, you can start with 4 blows point-based with Str16/Dex16 base.
>> With a High Elf, I think you have to start unbalanced to get 4 blows.
>>
>Actually HE is better for # of blows, getting +2 STR & +3 DEX vs. +2 &
>+2 for Dunaden. So tradeoff is SI vs. sCON and +1 CON. I'll continue
>to play HE for now but will read your commentaries and pay attention
>to how CON affects the play.
>
Dunadan even get an extra +2 to CON. I'll still think High elfs are
better:
you can start off with 16 STR, 14 or 15 DEX and 17 CON. The closer the
INTERNAL stat is to 18 the sooner you'll get it into the range where it
will go up faster.
At the end of the game, a warrior of any race can easily get enough CON.
High elves have +15 Saving throw and +15 magic device. This will make
a lot of difference later on. When I try to dive quickly I often have
lots of problems with cursing and monsters that will often blind or
confuse from a distance. (dragons seem to be the worst with the latter)
High elves should need only about half the amount of curing potions
for most of the game.
(If you find Holhenneth some of this is moot)
When you play without anti-summoning corridors or LOS-abuse, rods of
teleport other had better work.
High Elves are somewhat worse at melee fighting but much better with bows.
--
Wim Benthem
Eddie Grove
> Dunadan even get an extra +2 to CON. I'll still think High elfs are
> better:
You could well be right. In fact you probably are right. I have been
playing too many randart games. With the standard artifact set, CON
is easier to get. With randarts, more than once I have needed the
extra CON.
> When you play without anti-summoning corridors or LOS-abuse, rods of
> teleport other had better work.
Yes, I am wishing they worked better THIS GAME. My posts are lagging
behind the actual game.
Eddie
Warren
> The stairs in your house that go to the basement, when you go back up
> them from your basement, you get to your house again.
>
> Go down an Angband-stair, and when you go back up it, you're somewhere
> *totally different*.
Well, both points are valid. It makes no sense that you can't go back
up the steps you just came down, but it also makes no sense that you
end up someplace else when you go back the same way. I like the way
Hengband does it, if you go up the same stair you came down, you end
up on the same level as you left, so the dungeons are semi-persistent.
However, if you go up a different staircase, then you're someplace
else. You can stairscum if you really want to, but it's not so
convenient. Perhaps other variants could incorporate the same idea.
Warren
Eddie Grove
I am using ?map on the even panels, so it is quick to find the stairs
down to 24. When I -dTraps, there are an enormous number. Clearly a
major vault of some sort. Unfortunately, lacking --tOther, there is
no way I dare breach the vault.
Dunadan
Warrior
Swashbuckler ^^^^^^^^TTT^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ E ^^^^^^^^
LEVEL 20 TTTT ^^^^ ^/ +
EXP 8718 TT^ ^^^^ -- TT
AU 43 }TTTT T^ uuuu qq- TTT
\} ~[()]]] qTTTTT ^^ ^^^^^ uuuu qqqq TTTT
Str: 18/30 TwTTT #^^# #Jd Z ZZ#Z #uuuu# qqq#TTTT#
INT: 12 #####T #^^# ## m Z ##uuu##beq##TTTT#
WIS: 14 ^^^^^^^^##^^# ##########uuuu#q^qq#p T #
Dex: 18/10 ########^^^#F^gTTTooooouuuu##^^qq#K ###
CON: 18/30 Q+ ^^^^^^^^^^###################^^^qq#Roo#v#
CHR: 11 ########^^^#l^K-!oooooooood##^^^^#Too###
^^^^^^^^##^^# ##########o #^^^^#ooo o# #######
Cur AC 49 = ##### #^^# ##r ## ##I!k##ooo #######
Max HP 269 ##]Hh? #^^# #pT ^^# #^^^^# ^#ooos##.. #####
Cur HP 254 #p^ #^^# ##^^^^^## #^^^^# ^# #@..
##^ ##^^# J####### #^^^^# \## #############
#######^^^## ##^^^^# ^^##rd#
[**********] ############^^^^### ^_##+#
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^#g#^^^^^^^^#
########################################
Lev 24
The main threat seems to be Beorn. I wonder how far I could get
before having to ?phase away. I cannot get through the granite
entrances anyway, so my musings are moot. I descend.
I find my way to the stairs on 25, avoiding many foes thanks to
Holhenneth and ?map. Given the recharge time, I can ]dAll with
Holhenneth about every other even-numbered panel. On 26, I land next
to a 4headHydra, and must _tSelf. I pop into a room with sleeping
stoneTrolls, and decide I cannot leave them behind me. I wake them
individually with bolts and then melee. I get into some trouble when
a trollPriest comes from the other direction, but ?phase gets me to a
defensible position. I detect a new potion in a 2x2 room, but there
is a 5headHydra near there so I go in a different direction. On 27, I
come down near Nar. I run for the stairs, and he hits me 3 times and
mindblasts me for 60 total before I can descend. I come down in a
room with stairs, but I _dObj 5 items in a nearby room that is
medium-far via corridors. One turns out to be =sStr, too bad I didn't
have it 3 points of strength ago. Another is Maedhros!
I go back to the stairs and descend, then find a trapdoor to jump
down, and have made it to dLevel 30, the promised land of stat
potions. I see a spectator, and need not _tSelf wielding Maedhros. I
pay the price of amnesia. I find !wis soon afterwards, and then a
trapdoor leads to 31. I find !con on 31. I get poisoned badly by a
wyvern and am down to 73 hitpoints with no cure poison, so I ?recall.
The cheap !int is still at the market, so I buy it, along with ?*ID.
I do not have enough money to buy a sufficient source of id, so the
next trip may well be short. I am about to ?recall at 200/303
hitpoints. Every game turn counts. I have achieved a visit to town
during the time I might have wasted recuperating from the wyvern.
Still at 3 blows, but that will jump when I find !rStr and !rDex, or
better yet !str and !dex. Much more importantly, Maedhros gives FA.
For the curious, here is an excerpt from a dump later in the game.
The Main Gauche of Maedhros (2d5) (+12,+15) (+3) {floor28 @w0}
It increases your intelligence and dexterity by 3. It increases your
speed by 3. It slays trolls and giants. It grants you immunity to
paralysis and the ability to see invisible things. It cannot be harmed
by the elements.
122516 game turns.
[Angband 3.0.4 Character Dump]
Name Araguince Self RB CB EB Best
Sex Male Age 68 Str: 16 +1 +5 +0 18/40 18/10
Race Dunadan Height 76 INT: 11 +2 -2 +5 16
Class Warrior Weight 167 WIS: 11 +2 -2 +2 13
Title Veteran Status 44 Dex: 16 +2 +2 +3 18/50 18/40
HP 200/303 Maximize Y CON: 17 +3 +2 +0 18/40
SP 0/0 Preserve Y CHR: 10 +2 -1 +0 11
Level 22 Armor [26,+12] Saving Throw Excellent
Cur Exp 13998 Fight (+4,+2) Stealth Fair
Max Exp 13998 Melee (+4,+2) Fighting Legendary
Adv Exp 15120 Shoot (+4,+0) Shooting Heroic
MaxDepth Lev 32 Blows 3/turn Disarming Excellent
Gold 8 Shots 1/turn Magic Device Very Good
Perception Fair
Burden 120.9 lbs Infra 0 ft Searching Fair
You are one of several children of a Townsman. You are a credit to
the family. You have dark brown eyes, wavy black hair, and a fair
complexion.
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
Acid:............. Blind:.............
Elec:............. Confu:.............
Fire:............. Sound:.............
Cold:............. Shard:.............
Pois:............. Nexus:.............
Fear:............. Nethr:.............
Lite:............. Chaos:.............
Dark:............. Disen:.............
abcdefghijkl@ abcdefghijkl@
S.Dig:............. Stea.:.............
Feath:............. Sear.:.........+...
PLite:............. Infra:.............
Regen:............. Tunn.:.............
Telep:............. Speed:.............
Invis:............. Blows:.............
FrAct:............. Shots:.............
HLife:............. Might:.............
[Character Equipment]
a) a Main Gauche (2d5) {floor28, special}
b) a Heavy Crossbow (x4) {good}
c) a Ring of Sustain Strength
It sustains your strength.
d) (nothing)
e) (nothing)
f) a Brass Lantern (with 11980 turns of light)
It cannot be harmed by fire.
g) Metal Scale Mail [13] {golf23, good}
h) a Cloak [1] {average}
i) a Small Leather Shield [2] {resistance, excellent}
j) The Iron Helm 'Holhenneth' [5,+10] (+2)
It increases your intelligence and wisdom by 2. It increases your
searching by 2. It cannot be harmed by the elements. It might have
hidden powers.
k) a Set of Gauntlets [2] {average}
l) a Pair of Hard Leather Boots [3] {average}
[Character Inventory]
a) a Mushroom of Cure Blindness
b) a Ration of Food
c) 6 Potions of Boldness
d) a Potion of Resist Heat {40% off}
e) 11 Potions of Cure Serious Wounds
f) a Potion of Cure Critical Wounds
g) 9 Scrolls of Phase Door
h) 5 Scrolls of Word of Recall {!*}
i) a Scroll of Identify {@r1}
j) 2 Scrolls of Magic Mapping
k) a Rod of Trap Location {@z1}
l) a Staff of Teleportation {!* 4}
m) a Staff of Perception (8 charges)
n) a Staff of Object Location {@u2}
o) a Staff of Object Location
p) 30 Bolts (1d5) (+0,+0) {@f1 =g}
[Home Inventory]
a) 2 Potions of Resist Heat {40% off}
b) 3 Potions of Cure Critical Wounds
c) a Potion of Restore Constitution
d) 14 Scrolls of Phase Door
e) 6 Scrolls of Word of Recall {!*}
f) a Scroll of *Identify*
g) 4 Scrolls of Enchant Weapon To-Hit
h) 4 Scrolls of Recharging
i) a Rod of Acid Balls
j) a Wand of Clone Monster (7 charges)
k) a Staff of Perception (0 charges) {home}
l) 61 Bolts (1d5) (+0,+0) {@f1 =g}
Neodymium
post:
> Martin Read <mpr...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
Even in vanilla it makes some sense. You go into "a maze of staircases",
and though you arrive at an up stair, if you go back up it you can't find
the way back up. Your breadcrumbs are eaten by rodents. Your string is
snipped by an imp or a quasit. Your memory is damaged by a memory moss
growing in a dank corner, and even if it isn't, some umber hulk or
earthquake-causing earth elemental has rearranged things in there.
Kieron Dunbar
> Ah, yes, got the point. It seems you don't care much about the (-3)
> penalty if you actually planned on keeping it. Interesting...
(-3) is a tiny penalty, especially for something with as huge a to-hit bonus as
a Dunadan Warrior. The [+35] is much more useful.
--
kwaheri, Kieron (reverse username to reply)