Tim Baker: Will there EVER be even minor animations?
Dave
Angband/ZangbandtK. Even the simple 'two icon arms raised/lowered'
thingy is pretty cool. Any chance of this happining?
Grundman
Tim Baker
graphics myself. The only reason I put the few sprites in (Gnome mage,
Mumak, Blinking dot) was so people would know that animated icons
was even possible, and would be inspired to create some more.
-- Tim Baker
Mårten Woxberg
wrote:
>Well, I'm all for more sprites in the Tk games, but I can't create any
>graphics myself. The only reason I put the few sprites in (Gnome mage,
>Mumak, Blinking dot) was so people would know that animated icons
>was even possible, and would be inspired to create some more.
>
>-- Tim Baker
Well.. I could do some images... but how do i implement them into Tk?
Do I have to send them to you..
I have some experience in Animating Gif's...
I have a animated gif of flowing water that could be used in Tk..
That sort of stuff... send me a program where I can convert
the images into tk usable files...
/M}rten
ma...@felia.com
replace f with t in e-mail..
>
>Dave wrote:
>
>> I sure am dying for some kind of further graphical shakeup of
>> Angband/ZangbandtK. Even the simple 'two icon arms raised/lowered'
>> thingy is pretty cool. Any chance of this happining?
When should the arms be raised/lowered?
When attacking? attacking goes to fast in Angband for you to use an
animation for it..
>> Grundman
Tim Baker
> Well.. I could do some images... but how do i implement them into Tk?
> Do I have to send them to you..
> I have some experience in Animating Gif's...
> I have a animated gif of flowing water that could be used in Tk..
> That sort of stuff... send me a program where I can convert
> the images into tk usable files...
Tk uses regular GIF files, but telling the game to use the right graphics
is not simple. If you want to test any graphics you make you can add
them to the end of one of the existing GIF files in the tk/image directory,
and then use the Sprite Window to edit some sprites, then the Assign
Window to assign the sprites to whatever is appropriate (features,
monsters, etc).
If you end up creating any, send me a copy as well please.
-- Tim Baker
Mårten Woxberg
wrote:
>"M}rten Woxberg" wrote:
>
>> Well.. I could do some images... but how do i implement them into Tk?
>> Do I have to send them to you..
>> I have some experience in Animating Gif's...
>> I have a animated gif of flowing water that could be used in Tk..
>> That sort of stuff... send me a program where I can convert
>> the images into tk usable files...
>
>Tk uses regular GIF files, but telling the game to use the right graphics
>is not simple. If you want to test any graphics you make you can add
>them to the end of one of the existing GIF files in the tk/image directory,
So the animated staircaise is an Animated GIF eg a gif with lots of
pics in it?
Or????
>and then use the Sprite Window to edit some sprites, then the Assign
>Window to assign the sprites to whatever is appropriate (features,
>monsters, etc).
Never understood that Sprite Assign thing...
Mail me a short tutorial on how to add a series of 3 gifs to the
staircaise animation or to a "now" static tile... please...
>If you end up creating any, send me a copy as well please.
Sure..
Would it be possible to increase the palette in Tk? to say 16-bit?'
Without loosing compability with future OS ports ?
>-- Tim Baker
/M}rten
Gwidon S. Naskrent
Woxberg) wrote:
>So the animated staircaise is an Animated GIF eg a gif with lots of
>pics in it?
>Or????
No. It is a series of separagte pics, possibly kept together in one
bigger file, which are assigned a sequence to play. Usually you only
require two such frames.
>Never understood that Sprite Assign thing...
First you must make a sprite (Preferences->Sprite), and then you can
assign it in the Assign dialog box.
Gwidon S. Naskrent (nask...@artemida.amu.edu.pl)
GSNband - http://artemida.amu.edu.pl/~naskrent/index.html
GEU/J d- s+:+ a-- C++ ULB++>++++ P- E W++ N+++ o? K? w+ O-- M-- V--
PS++ PE- Y PGP->++ t-- 5-- X- R* tv- b+ DI-- D++ G++ e++ h! r! y?
Mårten Woxberg
S. Naskrent) wrote:
>On Sat, 08 May 1999 23:57:02 GMT, ma...@telia.junk.com (Marten
>Woxberg) wrote:
>
>>So the animated staircaise is an Animated GIF eg a gif with lots of
>>pics in it?
>>Or????
>
>No. It is a series of separagte pics, possibly kept together in one
>bigger file, which are assigned a sequence to play. Usually you only
>require two such frames.
So i'll have to copy all the gif's to the tk/image catalogue
and say call it water.gif
where i have frame one to five besides eachother..
then ZangTk will automaticly load that file for me?
>>Never understood that Sprite Assign thing...
>
>First you must make a sprite (Preferences->Sprite), and then you can
>assign it in the Assign dialog box.
Ok... I've played around with it and now I've found a bug...
With + you add a frame... with - you substract one...
pressing - several times (I think until less then two frames)
makes ZangbandTk crash...
>
>Gwidon S. Naskrent (nask...@artemida.amu.edu.pl)
>GSNband - http://artemida.amu.edu.pl/?naskrent/index.html
Gwidon S. Naskrent
Woxberg) wrote:
>So i'll have to copy all the gif's to the tk/image catalogue
>and say call it water.gif
>where i have frame one to five besides eachother..
>then ZangTk will automaticly load that file for me?
Yeah, if both frames are 32x32 (or 16x16) tiles and you do some
mumbo-jumbo with the graphic config in tk/config directory to have the
game include the file with others (or maybe it's automatic).
Gwidon S. Naskrent (nask...@artemida.amu.edu.pl)
GSNband - http://artemida.amu.edu.pl/~naskrent/index.html
Mårten Woxberg
S. Naskrent) wrote:
>On Sun, 09 May 1999 22:01:41 GMT, ma...@telia.junk.com (Marten
>Woxberg) wrote:
>
>>So i'll have to copy all the gif's to the tk/image catalogue
>>and say call it water.gif
>>where i have frame one to five besides eachother..
>>then ZangTk will automaticly load that file for me?
>
>Yeah, if both frames are 32x32 (or 16x16) tiles and you do some
>mumbo-jumbo with the graphic config in tk/config directory to have the
>game include the file with others (or maybe it's automatic).
Well.. it wasn't automatic.. :)
and I couldn't do any mumbo-jumbo to the graphic config (havent looked
closely though)...
What I need now is the approval for making a 16-bit tileset...
at least some of the tiles will be 16-bit.. the rest
will be standard Adam Bolt..
I hope Tim adds 16-bit colors.. is this alot of hard work?
I'm no real programmer so I don't know..
>Gwidon S. Naskrent (nask...@artemida.amu.edu.pl)
>GSNband - http://artemida.amu.edu.pl/~naskrent/index.html
>GEU/J d- s+:+ a-- C++ ULB++>++++ P- E W++ N+++ o? K? w+ O-- M-- V--
>PS++ PE- Y PGP->++ t-- 5-- X- R* tv- b+ DI-- D++ G++ e++ h! r! y?
/Marten
maxmc.cjb.net
Gwidon S. Naskrent
Woxberg) wrote:
>Well.. it wasn't automatic.. :)
>and I couldn't do any mumbo-jumbo to the graphic config (havent looked
>closely though)...
I haven't either. Their contents is pretty complicated, and I have no
clue where to look first. Perhaps the maintainer will betray some
secrets?
>I hope Tim adds 16-bit colors.. is this alot of hard work?
>I'm no real programmer so I don't know..
It would require a different file format for the pics. GIFs can only
handle 256 colours.
Dave
Grundman
"Mårten Woxberg" wrote:
>
> On Mon, 10 May 1999 08:33:21 GMT, nask...@artemida.amu.edu.pl (Gwidon
> S. Naskrent) wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 09 May 1999 22:01:41 GMT, ma...@telia.junk.com (Marten
> >Woxberg) wrote:
> >
> >>So i'll have to copy all the gif's to the tk/image catalogue
> >>and say call it water.gif
> >>where i have frame one to five besides eachother..
> >>then ZangTk will automaticly load that file for me?
> >
> >Yeah, if both frames are 32x32 (or 16x16) tiles and you do some
> >mumbo-jumbo with the graphic config in tk/config directory to have the
> >game include the file with others (or maybe it's automatic).
> Well.. it wasn't automatic.. :)
> and I couldn't do any mumbo-jumbo to the graphic config (havent looked
> closely though)...
>
> What I need now is the approval for making a 16-bit tileset...
> at least some of the tiles will be 16-bit.. the rest
> will be standard Adam Bolt..
> I hope Tim adds 16-bit colors.. is this alot of hard work?
> I'm no real programmer so I don't know..
>
> >Gwidon S. Naskrent (nask...@artemida.amu.edu.pl)
> >GSNband - http://artemida.amu.edu.pl/~naskrent/index.html
> >GEU/J d- s+:+ a-- C++ ULB++>++++ P- E W++ N+++ o? K? w+ O-- M-- V--
> >PS++ PE- Y PGP->++ t-- 5-- X- R* tv- b+ DI-- D++ G++ e++ h! r! y?
>
> /Marten
> maxmc.cjb.net
Alexander Deyke
: On Sun, 09 May 1999 22:01:41 GMT, ma...@telia.junk.com (Mårten
: Woxberg) wrote:
:
: >So i'll have to copy all the gif's to the tk/image catalogue
: >and say call it water.gif
: >where i have frame one to five besides eachother..
: >then ZangTk will automaticly load that file for me?
:
: Yeah, if both frames are 32x32 (or 16x16) tiles and you do some
: mumbo-jumbo with the graphic config in tk/config directory to have the
: game include the file with others (or maybe it's automatic).
Speaking of graphics :-),
[Yes, this is a very long post. I have much to say, so _please_ read
and respond.]
It's not automatic. I was trying to implement the 'original' 8x8
graphics in the Tk version and had to mess around a lot with the
'mumbo-jumbo' :-). I think I understand most of it, so please mail me
if you have any questions. I haven't gotten any mail in a long time,
so I'd be happy to help if I can. I successfully loaded the file
(scaled up to 16x16 so it can be read) and, using the non-Tk Zangband
.prf files, successfully implemented a lot of pictures. The monsters
were easy (except for some missing ones (?)), as were the 'normal'
items and terrains. However, when doing the auto-assigning of the
player, I discovered that the 8x8 file doesn't have as many columns as
Adam's, so one of the races doesn't have a picture. Also, IIRC, the
.prf file only deals with the assignments of the 'basic' races and
classes, located more to the top of the file. The new items of 2.2
seem to have pictures at the bottom of the file, but they aren't used.
What is the reason of this? Who drew the graphics anyways? I made a
'reference guide' with the data I got and will soon upload it to my
website, but I'd really like to know what the other stuff is.
__PLEASE__ respond if you know _anything_ whatsoever about any of
this. Twice have I posted and I've gotten no replies. Is it top
secret or unmentionable? Has the knowledge of it simply been lost over
time?
If anyone has any knowledge of the old graphics, please implement it as
an option for the game. 8x8, 16x16, and possibly 32x32 should be
available. In ZTk, the missing graphics in Adam Bolt's set are
currently letters, and it would be nice to have the original graphics
for these. Also, if a player prefers the ascii set (for some reason or
other), it would be neat if the terrain and effects were also ascii.
The 'trickster' walls lose some of the deception power if they are big
'#'s next to big gray graphical walls. The effects should use multiple
colors, like in the original, for both ascii and 8x8 sets. I think
David Gervais's set should also have this. Having the same single
color for multiple effects makes it impossible to see what it is, and
it would be more aesthetically pleasing. I think, however, that the
implementation of this is impossible at present. To solve this,
perhaps there should be a window (like the sprites) for 'random's. One
would create a 'random' and give it multiple frames. When such a
picture is drawn, the program randomly selects one of the frames, and
it would stay like that forever. I'm not sure how this would be coded,
but it would also give the opportunity to use the different colors of
robes and cloaks in David's set and Adam's dragon shields and hats.
The character assignment is currently 'non-user-friendly'. If one
plays multiple characters, and doesn't like the picture of one, the
other is messed up when one 'un-auto-assigns'. A better system would
be, IMHO, this: In the 'character' part of the assign window, there is,
on the left side, a list of races. Upon clicking on of these, the
right side shows all classes, with the pictures of that race/class
combination. If a player doesn't like the current picture, that player
must only change that picture, and other race/classes are unaffected.
The game then sets the 'monster 0' picture or whatnot to that picture
when the game starts. The auto-assign option could be seperate for
each one, with an 'auto-assign all' option. For David's multiple
pictures per combination, each could be a 'random' as described above.
The O 'shapes' are a bit of a problem, though. I think only the 'pure'
magic-using classes have such spells, and it does (in a way) change the
race, so they could simply be added separately, with a 'shape' entry in
the race list. If there is no picture defined for them, they should
'auto-assign' to be the same as the race/class combo.
For those curious what the Adam Bolt graphics are supposed to be used
for, please look at my web page. I wrote a JavaScript program which
displays the graphics and says what the specific ones are when the
mouse is moved over it. I have the Zangband graphics guide at
http://www.psd.k12.co.us/~adeyke/zangband.html . The fact is that
gnome mages weren't intended to be animated. One picture is for the
groupies and one for the loners. In KTk, the pictures are very much
misused. I'd much prefer having letters to having multiple very
different monsters with the same picture. The vanilla guide is also
available (angband.html), but the typos have not yet been removed and
such. There is also a David Gervais guide (dg.html), using all
information from the text files, but not everything has a label and
some labels are inaccurate. Please look at it anyways. If anyone has
the complete guide to the 'original' graphics, I can make a page for it
as well.
BTW, what does the 'alternate' window do? How is it used, and what
for? Also, in case anyone's wondering, it is currently impossible to
delete sprites without manually editing the configuration file (which
is also great fun).
I thank you for your time. Please think of what I wrote and _please_
at least say something. It is very exasperating writing a long,
somewhat meaningful article and not getting any response. It makes me
wonder if I might have died already and am now a ghost haunting rgra.
Have a nice day.
I don't want to write another article today, with
only one line, so I'll just report a bug right now: In KTk, the
bookstore accepts everything, not just books.
--
Alexander Deyke
mailto:ade...@psd.k12.co.us
http://www.psd.k12.co.us/~adeyke