[OT]What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
Angelo Braz
So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
What you think?
Angelo
Juuso Heimonen
news:20utcugq67fv5nkia...@4ax.com...
: What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
In order: Nethack, Adom and Dungeon Crawl
--
Juuso Heimonen / juuso.h...@gmx.co.uk
David Chapman
news:aamv4l$c4cjt$1...@ID-123177.news.dfncis.de...
> "Angelo Braz" <angel...@clix.pt> wrote in message
> news:20utcugq67fv5nkia...@4ax.com...
>
>> What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
>
> In order: Nethack, Adom and Dungeon Crawl
<shoots Juuso dead>
Ignore the dead feller. Nethack stinks irrevocably.
The only good roguelike I've encountered is ADoM,
but don't take that as a dis on most of the rest as I
haven't played many.
--
"Do you just keep your newbies locked up in cages all alone?"
"Of course! That's what pets are for!"
Kornel "Anubis" Kisielewicz
>
> So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
>
> What you think?
Cancel your post! Cancel your post! Cancel your post!
Or else we will have another war on the groups ;-)...
BTW : GR, ADoM, NetHack, Crawl, Angband.;-)
regards,
--
Kornel "Anubis" Kisielewicz (kis...@fulbrightweb.org)
GenRogue cRPG/Rogue-like Project ( http://genrogue.n3.net )
YARNS :: Roguelike News ( http://yarns.felis7.civ.pl )
"hominem non odi, sed eius vitia"
Cody Hatch
<20utcugq67fv5nkia...@4ax.com>:
>What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
>
>So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
>
>What you think?
Adom is best, I think. Non-linear plot[1], hell, *A* plot, great
interface, polished, balanced. I dunno, I just like it.
Nethack is fun, but ultimatly unsatisfying. Too many ideas, not enough
focus. The fact that you can polymorph into a female cockatrice, lay an
egg, wait for it to hatch, get a baby cockatrice pet, wait for it to die,
pick up and wield it's corpse, hit monsters with the corpse to turn them to
stone, then trip and fall dows some stairs, killing yourself when you land
on it (and there's a lot of other stuff relating to cockatrices. This is
just a LITTLE bit), and that 's just ONE of several thousand other
similarly complex things you can do... It's great. It's wonderful. It
fills me with joy that such a game exists. But I play Adom because Adom is
a better game[2].
Angband I like a lot. Some of the variants seem to be heading towards
Adom, in some ways (I'm thinking of Pernband here). In it's simplest form
though, it's very much a pure dungeon crawl. You go down, you kill stuff,
collect loot, go back to town, and improve the character. The focus is
first, last, and always on the character, and improving your gear, your
stats, and your resistances. It was also stated that it was the
inspiration for Diablo, if memory serves. Angband is, to my knowledge, the
only game that has a "bot" that can play and win the game, which probably
says it all. It's still a lot of fun, and if you go hunting through the
variants, you can probably find almost any feature your heart desires.
As for the other roguelikes, they strike me as being too old, too new, too
buggy, and/or too weird. I understand a lot of people like Crawl, I've
never been able to figure out why.
Cody
[1]: Relativly speaking. In an absolute sense, it's pretty linear, but the
competition is sadly lacking.
[2]: For me. It's a very very personal thing, and my opinions have
changed as I've played. No matter what roguelike you like, a lot of people
will have tried it and found it lacking.
Kazoo King
>
> So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
>
> What you think?
At the moment, I'm ranking thusly:
Crawl (p17, havn't managed to find p23 yet, grr)
ADoM
Gumband (only for the mode where you have to go up instead of down)
previously it's looked something like this:
Alphaman
ADoM
Zangband
And then a little like this:
ADoM
Alphaman
Crawl
Then maybe:
ADoM
Crawl
Alphaman
Then I got a little sick of ADoM. I still love it, and still play it, but
only now and then.
BTW: Alphaman rocks! It was my first roguelike. Plus it rocks.
Timofei Shatrov
confuse everyone with this message:
>What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
>
>So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
>
>What you think?
ADOM is the best, then goes Crawl and Avanor(it's unfinished but very promising
project).
Nethack and Angband suck, IMHO.
--
#__|___|_/########|___|__###############################################
#|___|#######O#O####|___|# Timofei Shatrov aka Grue (grue -> mail.ru) #
#__|__|###########|___|__# http://grue3.tripod.com #
#|___|_|#########|__|__Gr#########################################[4*72]
Haxot
"Kazoo King" <saty...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:aaoh22$gl6$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz...
BTW, what is crawl, and where can I find it?
Please somewone respond, I have stopped the stupid jokes, and I am wondering
if in a year or 3 anybody mite take me off of their kill file?
Abbasinaya,
haxot
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sqweek
says...
> What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
>
> So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
>
> What you think?
Well, I've only played three, but they're all good fun :)
Adom, Nethack and SLASH'EM
Patrick Burroughs
(gr...@mail.ru) spake thusly . . .
>On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:01:18 +0100, Angelo Braz <angel...@clix.pt> tried to
>confuse everyone with this message:
>
>>What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
>>
>>So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
>>
>>What you think?
>
>ADOM is the best, then goes Crawl and Avanor(it's unfinished but very promising
>project).
>Nethack and Angband suck, IMHO.
>
>
I endorse this list exactly, except for Nethack sucking. It's okay, but
not nearly as fun as the other three. Angband does indeed suck. Some of
it's variants managed to clean up the "let's throw in every stupid idea we
come across" feeling of Angband (Angbanditis, I call it), but still have
it's idiotic interface. It's the only roguelike I've ever had any problems
learning how to play.
Just to add further blasphemy to the pot (well, it was blasphemy if you're
a big Angband fan), I think Avanor has the potential to move to the front
of the list. I really like that game.
All my less than humble opinions, of course.
--
Patrick Burroughs
"It's always interesting to see how often people support the right to free
speech until someone actually *uses* the thing...."
-- JMS
Juuso Heimonen
news:ucu5jl4...@corp.supernews.com...
: Nethack stinks irrevocably.
You played, what, one game?
--
Juuso Heimonen \ juuso.h...@gmx.co.uk
Juuso Heimonen
news:3cd00...@corp.newsgroups.com...
: BTW, what is crawl, and where can I find it?
I don't remember, but do a search for "Linley's Dungeon Crawl"
--
Juuso Heimonen \ juuso.h...@gmx.co.uk
Patrick Burroughs
>
>
My advice for your first character is a Hill Orc Death Knight,
specialising in Necromantic magic. They're tough, and start with the
powerful Pain spell. Watch your HP though; Pain makes up for its power by
costing 1HP *and* 1MP to cast. Still, better to kill nasty enemies at
distance (or at least soften them up) then to go toe to toe with them.
--
Patrick Burroughs
"Interesting!" declared the fat merchant. "And the atheist?"
"He projects no image upon the blank whatever. The cosmic
mysteries he accepts as things in themselves; he feels no
need to hang a more or less human mask upon them."
-- Adam Reith
Juuso Heimonen
news:MPG.1739f49a2...@news.shocking.com...
: >BTW, what is crawl, and where can I find it?
:
: http://www.dungeoncrawl.org/
:
: My advice for your first character is a Hill Orc Death Knight,
: specialising in Necromantic magic. They're tough, and start with the
: powerful Pain spell.
I found Centaur Rangers really powerful, although you do have to eat a *lot*
--
Juuso Heimonen \ juuso.h...@gmx.co.uk
Cody Hatch
<MPG.1739c367f...@news.shocking.com>:
>I endorse this list exactly, except for Nethack sucking. It's okay, but
>not nearly as fun as the other three. Angband does indeed suck. Some of
>it's variants managed to clean up the "let's throw in every stupid idea
>we come across" feeling of Angband (Angbanditis, I call it), but still
>have it's idiotic interface. It's the only roguelike I've ever had any
>problems learning how to play.
Errr...have you confused Nethack and Angband? Nethack is famous for having
everything INCLUDING the kitchen sink[1], whereas Angband is a slightly more
complicated version of Moria, which was only a slightly more complicated
version of Rogue. Angband is REALLLY simple. Character, equipment, monsters,
and there's only one way to use any item. And every single variant of Angband
I am aware of makes it more complicated by throwing in a bunch of (usually)
silly ideas (often a LOT of them).
This is a very subjective thing, but in my opinion Angband has a fairly decent
interface, including macros, which rock. On the other hand, even though
Nethack was the first roguelike I ever played, and I once got as far as the
Castle, the interface is weird enough that when I tried to play it again
recently, I gave up, because relearning the controls was too hard.
>Just to add further blasphemy to the pot (well, it was blasphemy if
>you're a big Angband fan), I think Avanor has the potential to move to
>the front of the list. I really like that game.
If Avanor replaces any established roguelike, I suspect it would be ADOM
itself. If you like the minimalist aproach of Angband, or the "feature rich"
enviroment of Nethack, I haven't seen anything in Avanor that might interest
you.
Cody
[1]: Which in true Nethack fashion you can kick with a half-dozen outcomes,
drink from (another half-dozen outcomes), drop stuff down (which might return
one of several dozen informitive messages), and fly[2] over. And I'm probably
forgeting some things you can do with it...
[2]: The mere fact you CAN fly is pretty weird if you ask me. And let's not
foget that when flying you can't pick stuff up (unless you have a whip), and
dropped stuff may break. You *SURE* you didn't mean NETHACK had the "let's
throw in every stupid idea we come across" feeling?
Juuso Heimonen
news:9201B6A0...@130.133.1.4...
: [2]: The mere fact you CAN fly is pretty weird if you ask me. And let's not
: foget that when flying you can't pick stuff up (unless you have a whip)
No, if you fly, you can pick up stuff normally. If you *levitate*, however...
: You *SURE* you didn't mean NETHACK had the "let's
: throw in every stupid idea we come across" feeling?
IMNSHO, Nethack doesn't have anything stupid in it
--
Juuso Heimonen \ juuso.h...@gmx.co.uk
Patrick Burroughs
><MPG.1739c367f...@news.shocking.com>:
>
>>I endorse this list exactly, except for Nethack sucking. It's okay, but
>>not nearly as fun as the other three. Angband does indeed suck. Some of
>>it's variants managed to clean up the "let's throw in every stupid idea
>>we come across" feeling of Angband (Angbanditis, I call it), but still
>>have it's idiotic interface. It's the only roguelike I've ever had any
>>problems learning how to play.
>
>Errr...have you confused Nethack and Angband? Nethack is famous for having
>everything INCLUDING the kitchen sink[1], whereas Angband is a slightly more
>complicated version of Moria, which was only a slightly more complicated
>version of Rogue. Angband is REALLLY simple. Character, equipment, monsters,
>and there's only one way to use any item. And every single variant of Angband
>I am aware of makes it more complicated by throwing in a bunch of (usually)
>silly ideas (often a LOT of them).
>
Angband is the one with fifty-two flavors of "what the hell is that?" in
the race selection. Admittedly, Crawl is the much the same, but I found
Crawl more enjoyable. Maybe because of the equal number of flavors of
kick-ass in the class selection. Besides, I don't think there were "Yeeks"
in any of Tolkien's works, which Angband claims to be somewhat (slightly
(maybe) ) based on. A better claim would be "we liked some of the names
for places and things that Tolkien used, so we 'borrowed' them for our
game."
My main problem with Angband was that unlike *every* other roguelike I've
come across I couldn't just sit down, skim over a few basic key commands,
and start playing. It just didn't work for me.
As far as the variants go, there are one or two that cleaned up character
creation, and tried to make the game actually make some kind of sense to a
beginner. I don't really remember which ones. You're right about most
variants though; they're more complicated, not less.
To summarize, I have no problems with games that are complex overall; it's
games that are hard to get into that I despise. And I personally found
Angband to be one such game.
Cody Hatch
>On the day of 1 May 2002 22:45:56 GMT, Cody Hatch (co...@chaos.net.nz)
>spake thusly . . .
>>
>>Errr...have you confused Nethack and Angband? Nethack is famous for
>>having everything INCLUDING the kitchen sink[1], whereas Angband is a
>>slightly more complicated version of Moria, which was only a slightly
>>more complicated version of Rogue. Angband is REALLLY simple.
>>Character, equipment, monsters, and there's only one way to use any
>>item. And every single variant of Angband I am aware of makes it more
>>complicated by throwing in a bunch of (usually) silly ideas (often a
>>LOT of them).
>
>Angband is the one with fifty-two flavors of "what the hell is that?" in
>the race selection.
That's not Angband. Angband has 10 races, same as ADOM. In fact, they've very
nearly the SAME races. Off the top of my head, Angband swaps Drakeling for
Dunadan, and renames the three elves.
>Admittedly, Crawl is the much the same, but I found
>Crawl more enjoyable. Maybe because of the equal number of flavors of
>kick-ass in the class selection. Besides, I don't think there were
>"Yeeks" in any of Tolkien's works,
There aren't Yeeks in Angband either.
>which Angband claims to be somewhat
>(slightly (maybe) ) based on. A better claim would be "we liked some of
>the names for places and things that Tolkien used, so we 'borrowed' them
>for our game."
<shrug> I don't think that was Angband.
>My main problem with Angband was that unlike *every* other roguelike
>I've come across I couldn't just sit down, skim over a few basic key
>commands, and start playing. It just didn't work for me.
Really? I've been able to do so with every Roguelike except Crawl. Crawl
confused me somehow. I couldn't figure out the races, the classes, the
interface, the magic system, where I was supposed to go, or how to not die. Of
course, for Nethack, I was mostly unable to get outside the first couple of
levels without some research. But I was playing it. Just briefly, in between
starving to death. :-)
>As far as the variants go, there are one or two that cleaned up
>character creation, and tried to make the game actually make some kind
>of sense to a beginner. I don't really remember which ones. You're right
>about most variants though; they're more complicated, not less.
*sigh* You've been playing Zangband, I think. I can think of only a single
variant that didn't add a lot of complications (Oangband). It certainly didn't
simply anything though. Just out of curiosity, did the version you play have a
single town and a single dungeon?
>To summarize, I have no problems with games that are complex overall;
>it's games that are hard to get into that I despise. And I personally
>found Angband to be one such game.
If you were indeed playing Zangband, I wouldn't be surprised. Although
Pernband was just like that, only a lot more so.
Cody
Patrick Burroughs
<snip long series of Angband related rants and replies>
>
>*sigh* You've been playing Zangband, I think. I can think of only a single
>variant that didn't add a lot of complications (Oangband). It certainly didn't
>simply anything though. Just out of curiosity, did the version you play have a
>single town and a single dungeon?
>
At this point, I don't know what the hell I was playing. I just downloaded
Angband, and discovered that I was in fact wrong. How foolish I must look.
The problem is, I had Zangband (along with Oangband and Cthangband) as
well as 'vanilla' Angband, all at the same time, about a month ago. I
swear I saw Yeeks in Angband. Only I obviously didn't. I'm certain I
wasn't playing one of the variants. So what was I playing?
I still stand by not liking the game much, though I'll say that taking
into account this recent information, it doesn't 'suck' per se. It's just
not a game I'll spend my time playing.
Edd Parsons
[snip angband dissing]
>That's not Angband. Angband has 10 races, same as ADOM. In fact,
>they've very nearly the SAME races. Off the top of my head, Angband
>swaps Drakeling for Dunadan, and renames the three elves.
And has halflings back as hobbits again, and adds half-troll's - but yeah,
they are very similar.
>>Admittedly, Crawl is the much the same, but I found
>>Crawl more enjoyable. Maybe because of the equal number of flavors of
>>kick-ass in the class selection. Besides, I don't think there were
>>"Yeeks" in any of Tolkien's works,
>
>There aren't Yeeks in Angband either.
I'm fairly sure it's the only game I've ever seen yeeks *in*. Well, except
possibly for moria.
>>which Angband claims to be somewhat
>>(slightly (maybe) ) based on. A better claim would be "we liked some of
>>the names for places and things that Tolkien used, so we 'borrowed'
>>them for our game."
>
><shrug> I don't think that was Angband.
I might be mis-reading this, but isn't he saying angband has a lot of
tolkieny stuff in? In which case thats surely very true (half the uniques
for example).
>>My main problem with Angband was that unlike *every* other roguelike
>>I've come across I couldn't just sit down, skim over a few basic key
>>commands, and start playing. It just didn't work for me.
>
>Really? I've been able to do so with every Roguelike except Crawl.
[snip]
Hmm - I've played adom, nethack, angband, crawl + random others and IMO the
most complicated one in terms of commands was probably adom.
[snip]
Edd - likes angband but thought it got boring after a while
--
"Prim's Algorithm: Although named after Prim in 1957, it is now credited to
Jarnik in 1930." But who cares, they're both dead.
Computer science lecturer, UKC.
Jarkko
Angelo Braz kirjoitti viestissä
<20utcugq67fv5nkia...@4ax.com>...
I love ADoM for it's complex simplicity :)
Lots of features, but simple gameplay, and IMHO, it's a LOT more
newbie-friendly than nethack.
So as for now, ADoM is the one and only for me.
Julian Day
>What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
>
>So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
>
>What you think?
Adom, then Nethack, then a tie between Zangband and (Vanilla) Angband.
I like Crawl, too, but I haven't played it in a while.
--
Julian Day <ac...@sfn.saskatoon.sk.ca>
http://members.shaw.ca/jcday/
Julian Day
<juuso.h...@gmx.co.uk> wrote:
>: You *SURE* you didn't mean NETHACK had the "let's
>: throw in every stupid idea we come across" feeling?
>
>IMNSHO, Nethack doesn't have anything stupid in it
I agree, but people who think that way probably also think that Omega
wasn't funny. ;)
I love Omega. I suck at it, but it's so much fun.
Julian Day
<luna...@crosswinds.net> wrote:
>Angband is the one with fifty-two flavors of "what the hell is that?" in
>the race selection.
I think you're thinking of Zangband. Angband has basic races - human,
elf, dwarf, half-elf, dunadan, orc, half-troll.
Kazoo King
> BTW, what is crawl, and where can I find it?
> Please somewone respond, I have stopped the stupid jokes, and I am
wondering
> if in a year or 3 anybody mite take me off of their kill file?
Well, unlike everyone else on usenet, I'm not a little kid (or an old man
who acts like one) with an itchy killfinger. So you're not on mine.
Unfortunately I have no idea where you can get the mor recent versions of
Crawl. You could search the net but I've only found the eariler versions,
which are full of buggery. That is to say, that they are buggered.
Kazoo King
"Patrick Burroughs" <luna...@crosswinds.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1739f49a2...@news.shocking.com...
> spake thusly . . .
> >
> >BTW, what is crawl, and where can I find it?
> >
>
> http://www.dungeoncrawl.org/
>
> My advice for your first character is a Hill Orc Death Knight,
> specialising in Necromantic magic. They're tough, and start with the
> powerful Pain spell. Watch your HP though; Pain makes up for its power by
> costing 1HP *and* 1MP to cast. Still, better to kill nasty enemies at
> distance (or at least soften them up) then to go toe to toe with them.
Other good race/class combos I've found:
Minotaur Monk (Tend to develop ridiculous Unarmed combat skill, rather
quickly)
Minotaur Gladiator (9 out 10 characters in my highscore table are these)
Spriggan Venom Mage (Rather hard, but fun)
Spriggan Transmuter (Nasty ass. The spell you start with, Disrupt, will
kill just about anything, at any stage in the game, albiet after quite a few
castings with some creatures. One of these is at the top of my table)
Minotaur Chaos Knight (Xom) (These guys start with some ncie chunky
equipment, and have the blessings of Xom right from the start :))
Demigod Wizard (I've just found these guys go particularly well)
Demonspawn Chaos Knight (Xom) (Mutation city!!! Bwahahaha!!! These dudes
are fun)
Wookiee Jedi (Just kidding)
Angelo Braz
<juuso.h...@gmx.co.uk> wrote:
>"Angelo Braz" <angel...@clix.pt> wrote in message
>news:20utcugq67fv5nkia...@4ax.com...
>
>: What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
>
>In order: Nethack, Adom and Dungeon Crawl
Dungeon Crawl is somewhat simple compared to ADOM, don't you think? I
mean... I'm playing ADOM and love it, so it's hard to get used to a
simpler game...
Angelo
Angelo Braz
Where can I find Angband?
Thanks,
Angelo
Angelo Braz
wrote:
Where can I find Alphaman?
Thanks,
Angelo
Angelo Braz
wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:01:18 +0100, Angelo Braz <angel...@clix.pt> tried to
>confuse everyone with this message:
>
>>What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
>>
>>So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
>>
>>What you think?
>
>ADOM is the best, then goes Crawl and Avanor(it's unfinished but very promising
>project).
>Nethack and Angband suck, IMHO.
Avanor... I've found it. It seems to be similar to ADoM, but simpler,
less skills, different dungeon design and need lots of polishing...
But something to keep an eye for.
Angelo
Cody Hatch
>Where can I find Angband?
The best place for Angband and help with Angband would be:
http://thangorodrim.angband.org/
It's also where you can find all of Angband's variants. Some of them are
almost as different from Angband as Angband is from ADOM.
Cody
Ben Berthiaume
neccessarily in that order.
Ragnarok is also the only Roguelike I've ever managed to win without scumming,
which is possibly one of the reasons I like it. On the other hand, it's
possible that I beat it because I liked it so much I played it a lot more.
Tigershark7000
>I am personally fond of ADOM, Crawl, >and Ragnarok (blasphemy!)
Never udder that word in the R.G.R.A. again lest you be...
disliked.(gasp!)
--
John the Ragnarok hater
Kazoo King
> >BTW: Alphaman rocks! It was my first roguelike. Plus it rocks.
> >
>
>
>
> Where can I find Alphaman?
>
> Thanks,
> Angelo
I have no idea. Actually, I recall seeing it on www.the-underdogs.org.
It's possibly there. I've also seen it on various rogue-like dedicated
sites, I can't remember any addresses tho...
About the game: It's odd. There are microwaves, and Gilligan, and
Mary-Anne, and the munsters, and Buzz Aldrin. Oh and Elvis and a host of
impersonators. And toilet paper, alker seltzer, and frozen desserts.
Julian Day
wrote:
>On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:33:58 +0300, "Juuso Heimonen"
Crawl is what its name implies: a pure dungeon-crawl. It's simpler than
ADOM, but on some days, I just want to play whack-an-orc.
Olli "Shader" Juhala
>On Thu, 02 May 2002 22:34:40 +0100, Angelo Braz <angel...@clix.pt>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:33:58 +0300, "Juuso Heimonen"
>><juuso.h...@gmx.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>"Angelo Braz" <angel...@clix.pt> wrote in message
>>>news:20utcugq67fv5nkia...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>: What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
>>>
>>>In order: Nethack, Adom and Dungeon Crawl
>>
>>
>>Dungeon Crawl is somewhat simple compared to ADOM, don't you think? I
>>mean... I'm playing ADOM and love it, so it's hard to get used to a
>>simpler game...
>
>Crawl is what its name implies: a pure dungeon-crawl. It's simpler than
>ADOM, but on some days, I just want to play whack-an-orc.
besides, Crawl posesses an gods and magic system lighyears ahead of ADOM.
--
Olli "Shader" Juhala
A wand of wishing.
A BLOODY WAND OF BLOODY WISHING!
FIVE!
A BLOODY WAND OF BLOODY WISHING WITH FIVE BLOODY CHARGES!
-Wyld Karde at rec.games.roguelike.adom
sha...@SPAMNOT.surffi.net, ICQ# 81231128
Olli "Shader" Juhala
>
>"Patrick Burroughs" <luna...@crosswinds.net> wrote in message
>news:MPG.1739f49a2...@news.shocking.com...
>> On the day of Wed, 1 May 2002 10:27:22 -0500, Haxot (Ha...@operamail.com)
>> spake thusly . . .
>> >
>> >BTW, what is crawl, and where can I find it?
>> >
>>
>> http://www.dungeoncrawl.org/
>>
>> My advice for your first character is a Hill Orc Death Knight,
>> specialising in Necromantic magic. They're tough, and start with the
>> powerful Pain spell. Watch your HP though; Pain makes up for its power by
>> costing 1HP *and* 1MP to cast. Still, better to kill nasty enemies at
>> distance (or at least soften them up) then to go toe to toe with them.
>
>Other good race/class combos I've found:
>
>
>Spriggan Transmuter (Nasty ass. The spell you start with, Disrupt, will
>kill just about anything, at any stage in the game, albiet after quite a few
>castings with some creatures. One of these is at the top of my table)
Crawl dev-team decided dirupt was bit *too* powerfull, so it made an hasty
exit. That leaves us with Mummy Necromancers. You don't have to eat, and your
expert in the games current obscenely powerful spell, Pain.
>Minotaur Chaos Knight (Xom) (These guys start with some ncie chunky
>equipment, and have the blessings of Xom right from the start :))
Anything of XOm is fun really, and is a good choice for newbies since you
don't have to worry about sacrificces and whatnot. Also Dawrven Fighters are a
one way ticet to boredom, since they become the *Ultimah HackMeisters* pretty
damn quicly.
Sam Blanning
> >
> >
> >Angband I like a lot. [...]
>
> Where can I find Angband?
>
Cody Hatch
<92027DEE1ed...@192.168.0.8>:
>co...@chaos.net.nz (Cody Hatch) wrote in <9201DAEF...@130.133.1.4>:
>
>[snip angband dissing]
>
>>That's not Angband. Angband has 10 races, same as ADOM. In fact,
>>they've very nearly the SAME races. Off the top of my head, Angband
>>swaps Drakeling for Dunadan, and renames the three elves.
>
>And has halflings back as hobbits again, and adds half-troll's - but
>yeah, they are very similar.
Well, swaps trolls for half-trolls, and orcs for half-orcs. So pretty much
just renaming, apart from the Drakelings.
>>>Admittedly, Crawl is the much the same, but I found
>>>Crawl more enjoyable. Maybe because of the equal number of flavors of
>>>kick-ass in the class selection. Besides, I don't think there were
>>>"Yeeks" in any of Tolkien's works,
>>
>>There aren't Yeeks in Angband either.
>
>I'm fairly sure it's the only game I've ever seen yeeks *in*. Well,
>except possibly for moria.
My bad. I was thinking of Yeeks as character races, not yeeks as monsters.
Angband does add a couple of not-quite-canon monster types. Kobolds, yeeks,
jellies, snakes, bugs, and so forth. Tolkien obviously wasn't paying attention
to the needs of game developers - too few monsters, particularly low level
monsters.
>>>which Angband claims to be somewhat
>>>(slightly (maybe) ) based on. A better claim would be "we liked some
>>>of the names for places and things that Tolkien used, so we 'borrowed'
>>>them for our game."
>>
>><shrug> I don't think that was Angband.
>
>I might be mis-reading this, but isn't he saying angband has a lot of
>tolkieny stuff in? In which case thats surely very true (half the
>uniques for example).
If you mean unique items, I'm pretty sure that every single one comes from
Tolkien. If you mean unique monsters, I'm pretty sure every one that comes
from a "real" (that is, mentioned by Tolkien) race does. There *IS* Mugash the
Kobold lord, for example, but since Tolkien didn't have enough monster types,
adding stuff like Kobolds was fairly neccesary.
In any case, Angband is the most Tolkien-esque game I've played, even with the
odd non-Tolkien monster. Certainly more than 50% Tolkien-based. IMHO.
>>>My main problem with Angband was that unlike *every* other roguelike
>>>I've come across I couldn't just sit down, skim over a few basic key
>>>commands, and start playing. It just didn't work for me.
>>
>>Really? I've been able to do so with every Roguelike except Crawl.
>
>[snip]
>
>Hmm - I've played adom, nethack, angband, crawl + random others and IMO
>the most complicated one in terms of commands was probably adom.
Well, yeah, but they make SENSE in ADOM. :-P
Cody
Pasi Niskanen
Patrick Burroughs <luna...@crosswinds.net> skrev i
diskussionsgruppsmeddelandet:MPG.1739f49a2...@news.shocking.com...
> On the day of Wed, 1 May 2002 10:27:22 -0500, Haxot (Ha...@operamail.com)
> spake thusly . . .
> >
> >BTW, what is crawl, and where can I find it?
> >
>
> http://www.dungeoncrawl.org/
>
> My advice for your first character is a Hill Orc Death Knight,
> specialising in Necromantic magic. They're tough, and start with the
> powerful Pain spell. Watch your HP though; Pain makes up for its power by
> costing 1HP *and* 1MP to cast. Still, better to kill nasty enemies at
> distance (or at least soften them up) then to go toe to toe with them.
Sooo... any other places to download Crawl from? The downloads from that
homepage don't seem to be working at all for me. Tried both through IE and
an FTP Client to log in to their FTP server but no luck.
Any ideas if some other webpage has them for download? All I seem to find
are linking to the above page.
Haxot
"Pasi Niskanen" <pasi.n...@telia.com> wrote in message
news:kIxA8.35692$n4.75...@newsc.telia.net...
I will email it to you within 24 hours, Please respond yea or nea.
I can't remember whare I got the latest from the other night, but it is the
latest ver.
Abbasinaya,
haxot
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Frances Kathleen Moffatt
>> Sooo... any other places to download Crawl from? The downloads from that
>> homepage don't seem to be working at all for me. Tried both through IE and
>> an FTP Client to log in to their FTP server but no luck.
>> Any ideas if some other webpage has them for download? All I seem to find
>> are linking to the above page.
> I will email it to you within 24 hours, Please respond yea or nea.
> I can't remember whare I got the latest from the other night, but it is the
> latest ver.
Will you please learn to snip what isn't relevant to your replies?
I mean, honestly, at this point, I'm not asking you to *do* it, though
that would be nice. I'm asking you to goddamn well *learn* to do it, at
which point I'll feel far less guilty for ignoring a deliberately
self-indulgent poster than a perpetually dumb one who couldn't catch a
clue if it crawled up through his keyboard and attached itself to him
Alien facehugger style.
Love and coffee,
Frances
Pasi Niskanen
> I can't remember whare I got the latest from the other night, but it is
the
> latest ver.
Yes, please do e-mail it to me.
Oh yeah, your e-mail account, if the one you use here is your real one,
seems to have exceeded it's disk quota. Tried to e-mail you there and tell
you to mail it to me, but since htat didn't work I'll just tell you here
instead, so please do mail it, my e-mail's at the top of the post. Thanks :)
Jeff Olson
> About the game: It's odd. There are microwaves, and Gilligan, and
> Mary-Anne, and the munsters, and Buzz Aldrin. Oh and Elvis and a host
> of impersonators. And toilet paper, alker seltzer, and frozen
> desserts.
Yes, it's odd. And parts of it are very annoying. In particular, it
desperately needs real AI for monsters, and something better than all
those "space bar" presses to make the test interface work.
I wrote Alphaman during graduate school as a way of relieving stress. I
had just been exposed to "Rogue" and said "I can write that in 1 month."
Well, as most of you programmers know, the devil is in the details. I
thought as one of the few who actually completed a game, I'd give a
couple of hard-learned suggestion.
Spend a long, long time planning before you ever sit in front of the
computer to program. Decide all the major things you intend to include,
so you will make allowences for them from the start. For example, I was
well into Alphaman before I realized I wanted to include player
invisibility. An obvious thing, I know. And I planned poorly enough
that it was a lot harder to add late in the game than it would have been
if I'd thought to include it from the start.
Once you start programming, test your game regularly on an old, slow
computer. I learned a lot about algorithm speed by testing Alphaman on
an IBM XT (8088 processor). I also made sure the final game, zipped,
would fit on a 5 1/4" floppy.
Another suggestion as well. If you're programming for fun, as I was,
don't ask other people for algorithms (except for the most complex
ones). The real joy and sense of accomplishment came from figuring
things out for myself - I independently developed link lists,
Bresenham-type routines, random-number-seed storage as a way of storing
an entire dungeon, cave and dungeon maze generation, castle level
generation, etc.
I programmed Alphaman in a vacuum. That is, I hadn't seen any other
Roguelikes at all. This was probably a bad thing overall, as people
expect certain things to be the same among all Roguelikes. But it was
also good because it meant that Alphaman wasn't derivative, except in
the sense that all these games are derivative of Tolkien and TSR games.
But it was also bad because I could have learned a lot from looking at
how others did their UI.
I don't maintain an Alphaman website (there never seemed to be enough
interest to do it). The easiest way to find it (look for version 1.1)
is a Google search. I do have a character I sent to those who actually
registered the game, and if someone maintains a real Roguelike site, I'd
be willing to have that included. I'd also be happy to share any
routines I used, if anyone would actually be interested in somewhat
clumsy routines.
Regards,
Jeff Olson
Haxot
> the
> > latest ver.
>
> Yes, please do e-mail it to me.
Thanks, my computer just crashed, but I have fixed it. in the email and on
the way
abbasinya,
haxot
P.S. Frances, Is this better on the snipping? I got bit once for snipping
too much, and I guess I overreacted and stopped snipping.
TNX
Haxot
"Jeff Olson" <nospamc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ud92u7q...@news.supernews.com...
> On 2-May-2002, "Kazoo King" <saty...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > About the game: It's odd. There are microwaves, and Gilligan, and
> > Mary-Anne, and the munsters, and Buzz Aldrin. Oh and Elvis and a host
> > of impersonators. And toilet paper, alker seltzer, and frozen
> > desserts.
>
> Yes, it's odd. And parts of it are very annoying. In particular, it
> desperately needs real AI for monsters, and something better than all
> those "space bar" presses to make the test interface work.
>
> I wrote Alphaman during graduate school as a way of relieving stress. I
> had just been exposed to "Rogue" and said "I can write that in 1 month."
> Well, as most of you programmers know, the devil is in the details.
>
> Regards,
> Jeff Olson
Neat, though it must have been hard.
Best regards,
Haxot
Angilion
<rasko...@go2.pl> wrote:
>> What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
>>
>> So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
>>
>> What you think?
>
>Cancel your post! Cancel your post! Cancel your post!
>Or else we will have another war on the groups ;-)...
>
>BTW : GR, ADoM, NetHack, Crawl, Angband.;-)
GR? Never heard of it.
I have a soft spot for Nethack, because I whiled away
many hours at uni playing it on a nice Unix box.
I also have a soft spot for Rogue, because it was
the first Roguelike game I played (yes, I am old).
ADoM is the only game that has been on my hard drive
for 5 years and which I *still* play after winning a hundred
or more times. That says it all, really.
--
Always remember you're unique.
Just like everyone else. (Anon)
Kornel "Anubis" Kisielewicz
> >>
> >> So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
> >>
> >> What you think?
> >
> >Cancel your post! Cancel your post! Cancel your post!
> >Or else we will have another war on the groups ;-)...
> >
> >BTW : GR, ADoM, NetHack, Crawl, Angband.;-)
>
> GR? Never heard of it.
No wonder... It never saw daylight... yet ;-)
> ADoM is the only game that has been on my hard drive
> for 5 years and which I *still* play after winning a hundred
> or more times. That says it all, really.
I keep all of them... despite the fact that I don't play them
anymore...
regards,
--
Kornel "Anubis" Kisielewicz (kis...@fulbrightweb.org)
GenRogue cRPG/Rogue-like Project ( http://genrogue.n3.net )
"hominem non odi, sed eius vitia"
Frances Kathleen Moffatt
> P.S. Frances, Is this better on the snipping? I got bit once for snipping
> too much, and I guess I overreacted and stopped snipping.
Very much better, IMHO. Just rememebr to leave in attributions and you'll
do fine. :)
Love and coffee,
Frances
Haxot
haxot
Ilya K. Shumov
>
> Where can I find Angband?
>
Blin, could you snip all those crap?!
You can find Angband here: http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?p=Angband
or here: http://altavista.com/sites/search/web?q=Angband&pg=q&avkw=tgz&kl=XX
or anywhere else! Feel free to fantasize!
--
Ilija
shumov at mail dot ru
Vadim Gaidukevich
You wrote on Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:01:18 +0100:
AB> What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
AB> So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
the best of the best for me it is Avanor
:-)
by the way: new version v.0.4.8. released.
Vadim Gaidukevich
Avanor, the Land of Mystery
www.avanor.com
Vadim Gaidukevich
You wrote on 1 May 2002 22:45:56 GMT:
CH> If Avanor replaces any established roguelike, I suspect it would be
CH> ADOM itself. If you like the minimalist aproach of Angband, or the
CH> "feature rich"
CH> enviroment of Nethack, I haven't seen anything in Avanor that might
CH> interest you.
Avanor has unique features which deffer it from most other roguelikes:
1) All creatures moving at the same time.
2) hero it is a creature (so creatures can use inventory, has skills, can
learn spells etc.)
and also Avanor growth quickly: at now it is need more than two hours too
win game.
Haxot
"Vadim Gaidukevich" <va...@wargaming.net> wrote in message
news:ab5ogm$fj54m$1...@ID-116798.news.dfncis.de...
> Avanor has unique features which deffer it from most other roguelikes:
> 1) All creatures moving at the same time.
> 2) hero it is a creature (so creatures can use inventory, has skills, can
> learn spells etc.)
> and also Avanor growth quickly: at now it is need more than two hours too
> win game.
> Vadim Gaidukevich
Sorry to say, but after around 50+ games I managed to win after only an hour
and 15 minutes.
Unfortunately, This brings my average to about 3 and a half hours per win,
and my wins to 21.
Oh well.
Abbasyinya,
haxot
P.S. It is one of the best games ever, second to ADOM. I will be following
it's progress closely, 'cause it is a lot of fun.
Cody Hatch
116798.news.dfncis.de>:
I know, and that's neat. But I was talking about the feel of the game -
there's nothing about Avanor (so far) that would make me play it instead of
Angband or Nethack, because it's a very different style of roguelike.
Cody
Angilion
I've downloaded it and started to play. It's *very* ADoM-ish, which
unfortunately makes it seem like an unfinished version of ADoM. The
user interface is less easy to use, for example, despite a remarkable
resemblance to ADoM.
Having said that, it's good enough to overcome the annoyance of
interface issues like the rather inconvenient way of paying a shopkeeper.
I'm continuing to play it. Not as much as ADoM, but some.
Vadim Gaidukevich
You wrote on Mon, 6 May 2002 11:43:22 -0500:
>> Avanor has unique features which deffer it from most other
>> roguelikes:
>> 1) All creatures moving at the same time.
>> 2) hero it is a creature (so creatures can use inventory, has skills,
>> can learn spells etc.)
>> and also Avanor growth quickly: at now it is need more than two hours
>> too win game.
>> Vadim Gaidukevich www.avanor.com
H> Sorry to say, but after around 50+ games I managed to win after only
H> an hour and 15 minutes.
H> Unfortunately, This brings my average to about 3 and a half hours per
H> win, and my wins to 21.
Did you tried to win for a both sides? :-) (It is not an easy thing to kill
King of Avanor without s/l)
Haxot
> Hello, Haxot!
> Did you tried to win for a both sides? :-) (It is not an easy thing to
kill
> King of Avanor without s/l)
>
> Vadim Gaidukevich
Noooo, I am afraid that I will always stink of law, and I do not tend to
play the strange and archaic creatures most rogue-likes tend to offer.
Abbasinya,
haxot
Vadim Gaidukevich
You wrote on Tue, 7 May 2002 08:04:56 -0500:
H> Noooo, I am afraid that I will always stink of law, and I do not tend
H> to play the strange and archaic creatures most rogue-likes tend to
H> offer.
that is no problem, I've plan to add some new difficulties in v.0.5.0 for
good ending :-)
by the way: Could you post your victory (memorial file) in rgr.misc?
Haxot
Snip<
> by the way: Could you post your victory (memorial file) in rgr.misc?
>
>
> Vadim Gaidukevich
After I get a few wins with 0.4.8.
Sorry to say, but I have been playing the ones without the memorial feature
thus far.
abbasynia,
Jan
> > had just been exposed to "Rogue" and said "I can write that in 1 month."
> > Well, as most of you programmers know, the devil is in the details.
> SNIPPP.......
> >
> > Regards,
> > Jeff Olson
Oh yeah, I used to really like that game. It was too hard for me
though. I could never figure out what to do after Elvis!
Sam Blanning
"Jan" <janetca...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:26c82423.02050...@posting.google.com...
> > > I wrote Alphaman during graduate school as a way of relieving stress.
I
> > > had just been exposed to "Rogue" and said "I can write that in 1
month."
> > > Well, as most of you programmers know, the devil is in the details.
> > SNIPPP.......
> > >
> though. I could never figure out what to do after Elvis!
I think (read: guess) you have to kill all the fake Elvises. Then go through
the level again until you find the real Elvis (you know he's real because he
sings without a mistake, unlike the fakes). He'll give you the blue suede
shoes, a tape recorder that tells you where to go next, and I think there's
some food and stuff as well.
I got to the last level of the third tower once or twice, but didn't manage
to kill the big boss guy. It was so long ago that I've forgotten who he was
or why I was there.
I also recall that at some point I always seemed to inexplicably lose the
blue suede shoes Elvis gave me, so it would have been a bit pointless
beating him anyway. And that time limit seems really tight - theoretically
you have to clear a tower a day, which doesn't seem to leave much room for
exploring the ruins and suchlike.
Jeff Olson
On 8-May-2002, janetca...@hotmail.com (Jan) wrote:
> Oh yeah, I used to really like that game. It was too hard for me
> though. I could never figure out what to do after Elvis!
I suggest you do a Google search for alphaman.spl, a spoiler file that
gives away hints about all 6 of the castles.
Jeff
Sam Blanning
from the top of the file):
1. Detailed descriptions of the various Mental and Physical Mutations
2. Weapons, Armor and Shield ratings
3. Detailed berry descriptions
4. Detailed tech device descriptions
5. Overview of creatures
Timofei Shatrov
confuse everyone with this message:
>What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
>
>So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
>
>What you think?
I just found this little game:
http://www.bay12games.com/armok.htm
Download it and you'll die laughing.
The most silly features:
-The whole bunch of stupid races (Fat Cows, Norway Rats).
-Humans have tail.
-Characters have FINGERS! (That's silly, because, well, they have toes too).
-You can force you character to walk very strangely (on tail,right arm and third
finger for example).
-Item descriptions are hilarious (read description of your sword).
-Fight descriptions are hilarious ("Your left kidney is hit! Diaphragm is hit!")
-You can walk on water. The surface of water is not plain.
-And of course, awful 3D models.
Before playing turn on fullscreen in /INIT/init.txt directory because it's damn
too slow.
I know you'll like that game!!!
--
#__|___|_/########|___|__###############################################
#|___|#######O#O####|___|# Timofei Shatrov aka Grue (grue -> mail.ru) #
#__|__|###########|___|__# http://grue3.tripod.com #
#|___|_|#########|__|__Gr#########################################[4*72]
Todd A. Van Duren
Try this:
TVD
Jeff Olson
On 9-May-2002, "Sam Blanning"
<enqu...@nationalcoursingclub.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> 1. Detailed descriptions of the various Mental and Physical Mutations
> 2. Weapons, Armor and Shield ratings
> 3. Detailed berry descriptions
> 4. Detailed tech device descriptions
> 5. Overview of creatures
I'm surprised. I thought even the earliest included:
6. Details about the 6 castles which one must visit to complete the
quest.
Perhaps the very first spoiler file version omitted it. In any case,
another poster posted a more recent (i.e., 1995) version with the
missing information.
I wish the file didn't have a defunct e-mail address... :(
Regards,
Jeff
Karkadinn
>I just found this little game:
>http://www.bay12games.com/armok.htm
>
>Download it and you'll die laughing.
Hmm. I'm laughter resistant. I think I ate a clown corpse when I was a wee
lad.
::downloads anyway, since Deus Ex turned out to be rather boring::
--
Signing off as Stephen Mackey, the Multi-Threaded RFE Database Liaison.
"Sore wa himitsu desu."
Dinthalion
<ab4dru$n3g$1...@news.onet.pl>:
>> GR? Never heard of it.
>
>No wonder... It never saw daylight... yet ;-)
When will be beta version ? ;)
--
Pozdrowienia,
Dinthalion
dinth...@o2.pl / GG#1491948
Dinthalion
<p9c3dugben5o7814i...@4ax.com>:
>On 30 Apr 2002 23:53:07 GMT, co...@chaos.net.nz (Cody Hatch) wrote:
>
>>angel...@clix.pt (Angelo Braz) wrote in
>><20utcugq67fv5nkia...@4ax.com>:
>>
>>>What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
>>>
>>>So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
>>>
>>>What you think?
>>
ADOM, Crawl and ToME (and years age GSNBand;)
>
>
>Where can I find Angband?
--
Dinthalion
dinth...@o2.pl / GG#1491948
Antti Tuominen
> On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:01:18 +0100, Angelo Braz <angel...@clix.pt> tried to
> confuse everyone with this message:
>
>
>>What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
>>
>>So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
>>
>>What you think?
>>
>
> I just found this little game:
> http://www.bay12games.com/armok.htm
>
> Download it and you'll die laughing.
>
> The most silly features:
<snip>
> -And of course, awful 3D models.
>
> Before playing turn on fullscreen in /INIT/init.txt directory because it's damn
> too slow.
> I know you'll like that game!!!
>
>
Hmm, since when have roguelike games used OpenGL?
I thought that the original Rogue is written using only
ASCII codes 0-127.
Well, maybe this is an evolvement in the roguelike games,
though I'd classify this to be a normal RPG.
--
Antti
fortune: cannot execute; out of cookies
matija
> ::downloads anyway, since Deus Ex turned out to be rather boring::
WHAT?! boring?!? dude, i'm playing it for the third time now!
--
the yeti loves to drink shnaps too, so he's like a real shaman... he, uhm,
uh, if you want to contact him, you have to put some alcoholic offerings in
front of the forest. [-mystery of the yeti]
address is scrambled - remove SPAMISEVIL to reply
Karkadinn
>> ::downloads anyway, since Deus Ex turned out to be rather boring::
>
> WHAT?! boring?!? dude, i'm playing it for the third time now!
What can I say, Half-Life spoiled me. ;)
Sam Blanning
"Karkadinn" <kark...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020510113419...@mb-ml.aol.com...
>
> >> ::downloads anyway, since Deus Ex turned out to be rather boring::
> >
> > WHAT?! boring?!? dude, i'm playing it for the third time now!
>
> What can I say, Half-Life spoiled me. ;)
>
Lives Forever more than Deus Ex, but NOLF is different from those two in
that the dialogue makes it what it is, rather than the action).
I prefer Half-Life, but it didn't stop me enjoying Deus Ex almost as much.
Totto
news:20020510113419...@mb-ml.aol.com:
> Matija said:
>>> ::downloads anyway, since Deus Ex turned out to be rather boring::
>>
>> WHAT?! boring?!? dude, i'm playing it for the third time now!
>
> What can I say, Half-Life spoiled me. ;)
must say that I find Deus Ex to be the only really tolerable FPS floating
around.
Despite its somewhat flaky AI and outdated graphics engine, it has one of
the best storylines I've encountered in PC gaming. And some very appealing
small touches, like the skill and augmentation system, which as far as I
know is unique to Deus Ex.
It is also rather ... unique ... in multiplayer.
To stray back on topic, my latest character (Dord. the Dwarven Priest)
recently YASD'ed in the top level of Tower of Eternal Flame.
"Plenty of hit points, I can wait another round before casting heal."
"The (whatever it was) critically hits you. (x3)"
Best character yet, with a very interesting game. Got a level with altar,
vault and tension room on my way to the HMV, but the Black Tome spawned as
well, destroying my chances of a precrown in reasonable time. Crowning
gift Vanquisher was however very nice, together with a mace of destruction
5d6+6 and the lurvely selection of spellbooks spawned I was doing fine
until I met Khela, wherupon I got a wish one or two levels later (for
7lb). No other trouble, until the Tower killed me. :(
Incidentally, do Rings of Ice even exist? I swear I haven't seen a single
one in my ADOM career, and that includes my savescumming g16p2 days. (This
was my best nonscummed char to date, still got a long way to do).
- Tor "I *speeeled* my DRIINK!" E.
--
Tor E. Bjørstad t...@ii.uib.no
perl -e 'for(1..16){$p.="TOR! ";print"$p\n";$a+=$_};die"$a times.\n"'
By sending commercial e-mail to this account, you consent to the terms and
conditions listed at http://www.ii.uib.no/~tor/notice.html
sqweek
says...
> Timofei Shatrov said:
>
> >I just found this little game:
> >http://www.bay12games.com/armok.htm
> >
> >Download it and you'll die laughing.
Heh. I almost died of boredom before I worked out 'World travel' and
'Regional travel'
My first character then died in the first round of combat, and my second
character got knocked out in the first round of combat, and then about
50 rounds later I was finally dead.
> Hmm. I'm laughter resistant. I think I ate a clown corpse when I was a wee
> lad.
> ::downloads anyway, since Deus Ex turned out to be rather boring::
I'm with matija here, Deus Ex is a great game
I'm also playing it through for the third time :)
Though, I haven't played it for quite a while... I've been playing it
stealth like, killing/knocking out as few people as possible.
Karkadinn
>Despite its somewhat flaky AI
To quote a review that pretty much sums up all my problems with DE....
"The most severe problem with Deus Ex is the AI. There isn't one. Instead there
are a few canned responses in the game's enemies."
The rest of the review is here, if you want to read it:
http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/zones/reviews/pc/jun00/deusex.html
>and outdated graphics engine,
I don't take much note of graphics, but they were too dark for me in DE. I had
a hard time seeing anything, even when I adjusted the brightness option. Maybe
if I had played longer I would have gotten to more sunny levels, but I wasn't
going to wade through all the gloom and murk (not GOOD gloom and murk, like
Doomesque) for too much longer.
>it has one of
>the best storylines I've encountered in PC gaming.
It's hard to appreciate a story when the immersion factor is totally spoiled by
crummy AI and special items hidden in random trash cans, etc. Either trash the
story and go with a fun but ultimately shallow game (Mario Brothers 3 and Doom
are still pure joy after all these years, for instance), or go with a
story-heavy game with a reasonable amount of realism (Half-Life or even
Hitman).
>And some very appealing
>small touches, like the skill and augmentation system, which as far as I
>know is unique to Deus Ex.
Oh, good grief. Not unique to DE. Just unique to DE *within that particular
genre*. Other genres of games have been doing it for decades. So they tried
to go a LITTLE multigenre, but not enough to be truly creative about it or
"risk" anything. Color me unimpressed.
>"Plenty of hit points, I can wait another round before casting heal."
>"The (whatever it was) critically hits you. (x3)"
Oh yeah. I've done that one. :)
John Rowat
> Despite its somewhat flaky AI and outdated graphics engine, it has one of
> the best storylines I've encountered in PC gaming. And some very appealing
> small touches, like the skill and augmentation system, which as far as I
> know is unique to Deus Ex.
System. Shock.
System Shock 2, if you must and can't find the original, but the original
is still the best FPS game ever made, and it ranks at #2 on my list of
Best Games Ever.
> To stray back on topic, my latest character (Dord. the Dwarven Priest)
> recently YASD'ed in the top level of Tower of Eternal Flame.
> "Plenty of hit points, I can wait another round before casting heal."
Error parsing statement: incompatible phrase "enough hitpoints" with
location "top of ToEF".
Core dumped.
> Best character yet, with a very interesting game. Got a level with altar,
> vault and tension room on my way to the HMV, but the Black Tome spawned as
> well, destroying my chances of a precrown in reasonable time. Crowning
> gift Vanquisher was however very nice, together with a mace of destruction
> 5d6+6 and the lurvely selection of spellbooks spawned I was doing fine
> until I met Khela, wherupon I got a wish one or two levels later (for
> 7lb). No other trouble, until the Tower killed me. :(
You mean Purifier, right? If you HAD gotten Vanquisher, I'd want a .flg
because it's not supposed to be able to be generated for anything but
Barbarians and necromancers, and I'd have to boggle at a priest getting it
and laugh at you for dying once you have it.
Dying when you have Vanquisher actually takes work.
> Incidentally, do Rings of Ice even exist? I swear I haven't seen a single
> one in my ADOM career, and that includes my savescumming g16p2 days. (This
> was my best nonscummed char to date, still got a long way to do).
Wish for them next time instead of SLBs. Yes, they exist, your game just
doesn't like you.
Alternately, buy out a ring shop and let it restock a few times, or simply
finish the game with "=" in your autopickup definition. Check your
inventory before you win - you'll have one, most likely. They're not
uncommon late in the game, after they're not so useful any more.
-John
--
Sometimes, you just have to grin and try again with a fresher corpse and
slight changes to the formula.
-The Onion Horoscopes, Feb 13 2002.
Karkadinn
>Dying when you have Vanquisher actually takes work.
Oh, like trying to rob the Casino, for instance, perhaps?
::grumble, mutter, sulk::
Sam Blanning
> Totto said:
>
> >Despite its somewhat flaky AI
>
> To quote a review that pretty much sums up all my problems with DE....
> "The most severe problem with Deus Ex is the AI. There isn't one. Instead
there
> are a few canned responses in the game's enemies."
I thought it was fine for the purpose. Ok, they do many extremely stupid
things, like running in small circles when you trap them on a rooftop and
get them to critical health, but you kill them soon afterwards so it hardly
matters.
>
> >and outdated graphics engine,
>
> I don't take much note of graphics, but they were too dark for me in DE.
I had
> a hard time seeing anything, even when I adjusted the brightness option.
I had no problems at all. I didn't even have to adjust the brightness. And
for areas that are deliberately dark, there's a flashlight.
> Maybe
> if I had played longer I would have gotten to more sunny levels, but I
wasn't
> going to wade through all the gloom and murk (not GOOD gloom and murk,
like
> Doomesque) for too much longer.
Actually, they're mostly fairly dark, except for the indoor places. But you
can always see everything without having to have the flashlight on all the
time. Thief, for example, was *shite* at that. I spent the whole of the last
level with brightness up to maximum, simply because it was unplayable
otherwise.
I think if you had any problems, it was your computer's fault.
>
> >it has one of
> >the best storylines I've encountered in PC gaming.
>
> It's hard to appreciate a story when the immersion factor is totally
spoiled by
> crummy AI and special items hidden in random trash cans, etc.
One: There are no items hidden in trash cans.
Two: I don't see what bearing the AI has on the plot at all.
> Either trash the
> story and go with a fun but ultimately shallow game (Mario Brothers 3 and
Doom
> are still pure joy after all these years, for instance), or go with a
> story-heavy game with a reasonable amount of realism (Half-Life or even
> Hitman).
Half-Life wasn't story-heavy compared to Deus Ex. Aliens invade. You kill
them. You run in a straight line for a while, occasionally encountering
scientists who tell you which way to go, out of the two challenging
decisions of a) forward or b) back the way you came for no apparent reason.
Eventually you take the fight to your enemies. You kill a giant floating
guinea-pig. You win. Anything that could possibly be called a 'story' comes
at the end, and it's not so much a story as a cliffhanger. Not that that's a
criticism of Half-Life at all.
>
> >And some very appealing
> >small touches, like the skill and augmentation system, which as far as I
> >know is unique to Deus Ex.
>
> Oh, good grief. Not unique to DE. Just unique to DE *within that
particular
> genre*. Other genres of games have been doing it for decades.
So what? It's still unique to that particular genre, and that's enough.
When Wolfenstein was created, the first person perspective had been around
for ages (although free turning was perhaps more recent). Wolfenstein was
still unarguably a milestone.
> So they tried
> to go a LITTLE multigenre, but not enough to be truly creative about it or
> "risk" anything. Color me unimpressed.
Of course it was a risk. There are countless hordes of games who tried to
straddle two genres and fell between two stools.
Tigershark7000
>Oh, like trying to rob the Casino, for instance, perhaps?
>::grumble, mutter, sulk::
>
I robbed the Casino with a level 35 barbarien. The trick is to fight in the
dark, most of the guards can't even fight there and those who can can't use the
paralize attack. Step into the light and your dead.
--
John
P.S. Stephen:How do you get AOL to put '(karkadinn)' in your 'From:' slot? I am
tierd of being known as 'tigershark7000' but I can't do anything about it.
Totto
news:abh9ap$9u2$1...@driftwood.ccs.carleton.ca:
> Error parsing statement: incompatible phrase "enough hitpoints" with
> location "top of ToEF".
>
> Core dumped.
But really, they were barely hitting me, and I was just pulling out a line
of them so that I could use my limited castings of frost bolt more
effici...SPLAT.
Next time I'll be even MORE paranoid.
> You mean Purifier, right? If you HAD gotten Vanquisher, I'd want a
> .flg because it's not supposed to be able to be generated for
> anything but Barbarians and necromancers, and I'd have to boggle at a
> priest getting it and laugh at you for dying once you have it.
>
> Dying when you have Vanquisher actually takes work.
Uhm, let me double-check that, probably just a brain fart on my part.
Yup, Purifyer sounds much more reasonable, particularly since I was
running a big fat shield together with it.
Still a darn nice weapon though.
>> Incidentally, do Rings of Ice even exist? I swear I haven't seen a
>> single one in my ADOM career, and that includes my savescumming
>> g16p2 days. (This was my best nonscummed char to date, still got a
>> long way to do).
>
> Wish for them next time instead of SLBs. Yes, they exist, your game
> just doesn't like you.
Might just. But the ability to OUTRUN stuff is so NICE, particularly in
DH2.
And it's not as though I ever get unwishedfor 7lbs, either.
- Tor "eternium 2h swords in the SMC, on the other hand" E.
Timofei Shatrov
<anttituomi...@PLEASE.kolumbus.fi> tried to confuse everyone with this
message:
>Timofei Shatrov wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:01:18 +0100, Angelo Braz <angel...@clix.pt> tried to
>> confuse everyone with this message:
>>
>>
>> I just found this little game:
>> http://www.bay12games.com/armok.htm
>>
>> Download it and you'll die laughing.
>>
>> The most silly features:
>
>
><snip>
>
>
>> -And of course, awful 3D models.
>>
>Hmm, since when have roguelike games used OpenGL?
>
>I thought that the original Rogue is written using only
>ASCII codes 0-127.
>
>Well, maybe this is an evolvement in the roguelike games,
>though I'd classify this to be a normal RPG.
>
It was posted on r.g.r.announce and author claims it to be a roguelike. I don't
see nothing roguelikish in it too.
Kornel "Anubis" Kisielewicz
news:abgk4s$pcj$3...@news.tpi.pl...
> kis...@fulbrightweb.org (Kornel "Anubis" Kisielewicz) wrote in
> <ab4dru$n3g$1...@news.onet.pl>:
>
> >> GR? Never heard of it.
> >
> >No wonder... It never saw daylight... yet ;-)
>
>
> When will be beta version ? ;)
Eeeeeee...... ? ;-))) I dunno. Maybe womwhere at the end of the summer
break.
regards,
--
Kornel "Anubis" Kisielewicz (kis...@fulbrightweb.org)
GenRogue cRPG/Rogue-like Project ( http://genrogue.n3.net )
YARNS :: Roguelike News ( http://yarns.felis7.civ.pl )
"hominem non odi, sed eius vitia"
Cody Hatch
<Xns920ABE862DE10...@213.46.194.76>:
>kark...@aol.com (Karkadinn) wrote in
>news:20020510113419...@mb-ml.aol.com:
>> Matija said:
>>>> ::downloads anyway, since Deus Ex turned out to be rather boring::
>>>
>>> WHAT?! boring?!? dude, i'm playing it for the third time now!
>>
>> What can I say, Half-Life spoiled me. ;)
>
>Yet again jumping out from left field and into an OT thread (*sigh*), I
>must say that I find Deus Ex to be the only really tolerable FPS
>floating around.
Well...many/most people wouldn't call it an FPS. It was typically billed as an
RPG, or as an Action/RPG. <shrug> Genres based on an interface, rather than
the gameplay, aren't a good idea IMHO.
>Despite its somewhat flaky AI
An understatement, if there ever was one. :-)
>and outdated graphics engine,
I didn't have a problem with that. I thought it adequate.
>it has one
>of the best storylines I've encountered in PC gaming.
Well...if you like that kinda thing. Yay, goverment conspiracies and secret
agents. It had the subtlety of a brick. I preffered the Half-Life storyline,
which was more engaging, even if equally obvious. Then again, I never played
all the way through Deus Ex, so maybe the storyline picked up...
>And some very
>appealing small touches, like the skill and augmentation system, which
>as far as I know is unique to Deus Ex.
Uh...no. For one thing, the skill system sucked. Great idea, but poorly
implemented from a gameplay perspective. But hardly unique. To start with,
there's the System Shock series (in a lot of ways, like Deus Ex Done Right),
and beyond that, there's a hundred odd RPG's.
Cody
shakil
> On Wed, 1 May 2002 21:46:15 +1200, "Kazoo King" <saty...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Angelo Braz" <angel...@clix.pt> wrote in message
> >news:20utcugq67fv5nkia...@4ax.com...
> >> What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
> >>
> >> So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
> >>
> >> What you think?
> >
> >
> >
> >Crawl (p17, havn't managed to find p23 yet, grr)
> >ADoM
> >Gumband (only for the mode where you have to go up instead of down)
> >
> >previously it's looked something like this:
> >
> >Alphaman
> >ADoM
> >Zangband
> >
> >And then a little like this:
> >
> >ADoM
> >Alphaman
> >Crawl
> >
> >Then maybe:
> >
> >ADoM
> >Crawl
> >Alphaman
> >
> >Then I got a little sick of ADoM. I still love it, and still play it, but
> >only now and then.
> >
> >BTW: Alphaman rocks! It was my first roguelike. Plus it rocks.
> >
>
>
>
> Where can I find Alphaman?
>
> Thanks,
> Angelo
USe this site and download whatever roguelike you want.
http://www.win.tue.nl/~kroisos/roguelike.html
Sam Blanning
"Cody Hatch" <co...@chaos.net.nz> wrote in message
news:920B8396...@130.133.1.4...
> >>>>
> >>>> ::downloads anyway, since Deus Ex turned out to be rather boring::
> >>>
> >>> WHAT?! boring?!? dude, i'm playing it for the third time now!
> >>
> >> What can I say, Half-Life spoiled me. ;)
> >
> >Yet again jumping out from left field and into an OT thread (*sigh*), I
> >must say that I find Deus Ex to be the only really tolerable FPS
> >floating around.
[...]
> >And some very
> >appealing small touches, like the skill and augmentation system, which
> >as far as I know is unique to Deus Ex.
>
> Uh...no. For one thing, the skill system sucked. Great idea, but poorly
> implemented from a gameplay perspective.
Why was that? I thought it was implemented quite well. Although there are a
few choices that are obviously Wrong (who's going to use Heavy weapons as a
main weapon, for example, and Regeneration is overpowered), most of it works
quite well. Each new skill rise is enough of an improvement to give you a
real feeling of achievement.
> But hardly unique. To start with,
> there's the System Shock series (in a lot of ways, like Deus Ex Done
Right),
I didn't like System Shock. Excellent atmosphere (at least until you meet
the Hammerites, sorry I mean worm-zombies), but too much retracing your
steps with only the odd Hamm... pipe zombie to break the flow, and
absolutely no reason that I could see for taking the automap away from you
just when it began to get fun and it actually felt like I might bother to
complete the game.
> and beyond that, there's a hundred odd RPG's.
Most of which aren't any good, and none of which are anything like Deus Ex
that I know of, so it doesn't matter.
John Rowat
> I didn't like System Shock. Excellent atmosphere (at least until you meet
> the Hammerites, sorry I mean worm-zombies), but too much retracing your
> steps with only the odd Hamm... pipe zombie to break the flow, and
> absolutely no reason that I could see for taking the automap away from you
> just when it began to get fun and it actually felt like I might bother to
> complete the game.
Take automap away from you?
Huh?
And you don't need to retrace your steps... at all, really. Occasionally
you'll need to leave an area and you'll WANT to do it via the route you
came in to conserve health, but that's it. A single pass through each
area is all you need, with a few exceptions - and the things that trigger
the need to return to those area trigger new monsters there in new and
sensible places doing sensible things.
Thinking my way through the game again:
All the way around 1, all the way around 2, all the way around 3, down to
Reactor, back up to 3 with new monsters, down to 2 for 20 seconds to take
the cargo 'vator to 4, through 4, through 5 (Cortex reaver! small
guns! Ugh!), through 6, through the Gardens, up to 7, down to 6 for a few
seconds, down to 4 again for a quick trip with new enemies, all the way
through 7, down to the Reactor again with new enemies and locations
available, to 5 again with new enemies goals, all the way around 8 (the
only really LINEAR level in the whole station), to 9, halfway around (if
you know the route), to SHODAN'S mainframe cyberjack, and into the heart
of the beast.
No route retracing necessary, although sometimes it's REALLY hand y to
know the layout and backtrack to avoid a monster or two. In every case,
though, that's optional - you can always go head on with a mutated cybord
or SEC-2 robot if you REALLY want to, and you can usually win.
matija
> Yay, goverment conspiracies and secret
> agents. It had the subtlety of a brick. I preffered the Half-Life storyline,
> which was more engaging, even if equally obvious. Then again, I never played
> all the way through Deus Ex, so maybe the storyline picked up...
and that's just why you and karkian (yes, pun intended :))
haven't grown to absolutely *adore* the game. things start
to get interesting in the second half.
Karkadinn
> and that's just why you and karkian (yes, pun intended :))
> haven't grown to absolutely *adore* the game. things start
> to get interesting in the second half.
::doesn't know what the pun means but WANTS to... le sigh::
Many books make this same mistake. They start out with a confusing,
seemingly-profound-but-actually-just-irritatingly-vague sequence in the very
beginning that you never understand until near the end. This turns people off
from the books at the start, but if they can get past the start there's usually
a good tale in there.
It appears that Deus Ex, in its story intensity, made the mistake of having a
bad prologue. :) Maybe I'll give it another try. After I beat Fallout 2.
Heh. Fallout 2 ALSO had a bad beginning (stupid temple fighting sequence when
I'm playing a non-fighter character... blah...) but the Louis Armstrong song
made up for that, as far as I'm concerned.
Accordingly, yes, I did just edit out one of those aforementioned vague
sequences from my book's prologue before printing it out. ;) Larsen-Pomada,
here I come... whether you want me or not....
--
Signing off as Stephen Mackey, apologizing for the rambling.
"Sore wa himitsu desu."
Juho Julkunen
> As roses wither, so does Sam Blanning:
>
> > I didn't like System Shock. Excellent atmosphere (at least until you meet
> > the Hammerites, sorry I mean worm-zombies), but too much retracing your
> > steps with only the odd Hamm... pipe zombie to break the flow, and
> > absolutely no reason that I could see for taking the automap away from you
> > just when it began to get fun and it actually felt like I might bother to
> > complete the game.
>
> Take automap away from you?
>
> Huh?
I think he's talking about SS2, where you do indeed lose automap once
you reach Rickenbaker. Which doesn't actually matter since it's a pretty
small ship. And I seem to recall that game requiring some backtracking.
(But if it feels like too much, you're doing something wrong. Basically,
I did some extra running back and forth because I chose to.)
But he's talking crazy, either way. System Shock 2 is quite lovely.
I only recently managed to get my hands on the original. Now I
just need to find the time to play it.
--
The Outsider
"Shit man! You sendin' the Fett? That's all the fuck you had to say
nigga. You send that badassed mutha down here and we gonna get imperial
on these muthafuckers' asses!"
(First draft of Mace Windu's dialogue from Attack of the Clones)
Cody Hatch
<MPG.1747b1df9...@news.carnet.hr>:
>Cody Hatch, completely geschtonkenflapped, wrote:
>> Yay, goverment conspiracies and secret
>> agents. It had the subtlety of a brick. I preffered the Half-Life
>> storyline, which was more engaging, even if equally obvious. Then
>> again, I never played all the way through Deus Ex, so maybe the
>> storyline picked up...
>
> and that's just why you and karkian (yes, pun intended :))
> haven't grown to absolutely *adore* the game. things start
> to get interesting in the second half.
The sole purpose of a plot (certainly the opening parts of it) is to draw
you into the game (movie, book, whatever). If it doesn't do that until the
SECOND half, it's an abject failure, no matter how interesting it might end
up being for the masochists who stick it out that far.
They make a BIG point of that in writing classes, incidentally. If your
first paragraph doesn't grab the reader and MAKE them read the whole
chapter (and that chapter doesn't make them read the whole book), then
you've screwed up. Sadly, the point is often lost on game developers, who
seem to think all it takes is more polygons[1]. :-)
Cody
[1]: Of course, sometimes that's correct. I didn't think I'd like Dungeon
Siege, but was so overwhelmed by the stunning graphics that I kept playing
it until I started to appreciate the surprisingly good gameplay and the
excellent skill system. I probably wouldn't have kept at it if the game
hasn't been so pretty.
Cody Hatch
<abjvvl$ti2$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>:
>"Cody Hatch" <co...@chaos.net.nz> wrote in message
>news:920B8396...@130.133.1.4...
>>
>> >And some very
>> >appealing small touches, like the skill and augmentation system,
>> >which as far as I know is unique to Deus Ex.
>>
>> Uh...no. For one thing, the skill system sucked. Great idea, but
>> poorly implemented from a gameplay perspective.
>
>Why was that? I thought it was implemented quite well. Although there
>are a few choices that are obviously Wrong (who's going to use Heavy
>weapons as a main weapon, for example, and Regeneration is overpowered),
>most of it works quite well. Each new skill rise is enough of an
>improvement to give you a real feeling of achievement.
Well, if you like it, you like it, I guess. Personally, I got the feeling the
map makers and the people doing the rest of the game never talked to each
other.
I found there nearly every skill-related choice had a single "right" answer,
and there was almost always no way to tell at the time. The system where you
periodically got a choice of two upgrades was particularly bad. You just had
to guess, only to frequently find you'd traded an uber-skill for a completly
useless abillity that was only useful in ONE small part of the game you had
ALREADY PASSED.
Basically, that kind of game should have a LOT of emphasis on non-linearity and
multiple solutions to any given problem. I didn't see it.
>> But hardly unique. To start with,
>> there's the System Shock series (in a lot of ways, like Deus Ex Done
>Right),
>
>I didn't like System Shock. Excellent atmosphere (at least until you
>meet the Hammerites, sorry I mean worm-zombies), but too much retracing
>your steps with only the odd Hamm... pipe zombie to break the flow, and
>absolutely no reason that I could see for taking the automap away from
>you just when it began to get fun and it actually felt like I might
>bother to complete the game.
Well, I didn't complete that game either (I like twitch-games, and I like skill
games, but combining them correctly hasn't been done yet, IMHO). But listening
to my friends go on (and ON) about the damn thing, it sounds like you were
playing a different game. :-)
>> and beyond that, there's a hundred odd RPG's.
>
>Most of which aren't any good, and none of which are anything like Deus
>Ex that I know of, so it doesn't matter.
"Aren't any good" is subjective. You mean, you don't like the small handful
you've personally tried? 'Cause even the worst games have rabid partisans.
Like Deus Ex. :-P
Still and all, if you can't stand to be parted from the twitch gaming aspect of
Deus Ex, I guess you better wait for Deus Ex 2, or maybe Thief 3.
Cody
John Rowat
>> > I didn't like System Shock. Excellent atmosphere (at least until you meet
>> > the Hammerites, sorry I mean worm-zombies), but too much retracing your
>> > steps with only the odd Hamm... pipe zombie to break the flow, and
>> > absolutely no reason that I could see for taking the automap away from you
>> > just when it began to get fun and it actually felt like I might bother to
>> > complete the game.
>>
>> Take automap away from you?
>> Huh?
> I think he's talking about SS2, where you do indeed lose automap once
> you reach Rickenbaker. Which doesn't actually matter since it's a pretty
> small ship. And I seem to recall that game requiring some backtracking.
> (But if it feels like too much, you're doing something wrong. Basically,
> I did some extra running back and forth because I chose to.)
Right, and suddenly the Hammerite/worm zombie reference makes more sense.
> But he's talking crazy, either way. System Shock 2 is quite lovely.
> I only recently managed to get my hands on the original. Now I
> just need to find the time to play it.
It's very good. I found my copy, too - or, rather, my CD is still AWOL,
but I found that I'm better prepared than I thought, and I found where on
my HD I had COPIED the CD to.
I've got the original disks for Pools of Darkness on there, too. Life is
good.
Karkadinn
>I've got the original disks for Pools of Darkness on there, too. Life is
>good.
Hmm. Pools of Radiance's evil twin brother? :)
--
Signing off as Stephen Mackey, the Multi-Threaded RFE Database Liaison.
"Sore wa himitsu desu."
John Rowat
<System Shock>
> Well, I didn't complete that game either (I like twitch-games, and I
> like skill games, but combining them correctly hasn't been done yet,
> IMHO).
So set Combat to 0, and puzzles and plot to 3. Instant puzzle/skill game.
Set plot to 0 and Combat to 3, instant FPS with the only goal being the
baddy at the heart of the bridge. Set combat to 3, puzzles to 3, plot to
3, and cyberspace to 1 (my personal favourite setting) and just play the
neatest FPS/Puzzle/RPG game in existence.
Sam Blanning
> >> Yay, goverment conspiracies and secret
> >> agents. It had the subtlety of a brick. I preffered the Half-Life
> >> storyline, which was more engaging, even if equally obvious. Then
> >> again, I never played all the way through Deus Ex, so maybe the
> >> storyline picked up...
> >
> > and that's just why you and karkian (yes, pun intended :))
> > haven't grown to absolutely *adore* the game. things start
> > to get interesting in the second half.
>
> The sole purpose of a plot (certainly the opening parts of it) is to draw
> you into the game (movie, book, whatever). If it doesn't do that until
the
> SECOND half, it's an abject failure, no matter how interesting it might
end
> up being for the masochists who stick it out that far.
If you think that playing Deus Ex is masochism, then you don't like the game
and there's not really any point in continuing. See, the point of playing
the game isn't to find out what happens next. If you want a great plot, read
a good book. The point of playing the game is because it's *fun*. Although I
was always thinking "What's going to happen next?" when I finished a
mission, the plot really wasn't that important to me, it was just something
nice under the background. Rather like playing a good music CD while playing
a music-free game, say, Worms.
I didn't see anything wrong with the plot at first, either. No, it's not
complicated, but is Rollercoaster Tycoon crap because it doesn't draw you in
with a riveting plot? Worms? ADOM? They draw you in with great gameplay, and
in my opinion, Deus Ex does the same. If you don't like it, fine, I'm in a
couple of game-disliking minorities myself, but don't try and call it an
abject failure.
John Rowat
> John Rowat said:
>>I've got the original disks for Pools of Darkness on there, too. Life is
>>good.
> Hmm. Pools of Radiance's evil twin brother? :)
"Pool" of Radiance, singular.
It's a series of four games (or three novels, or six novels depending on
how you look at it)
The games are
Pool of Radiance (level 1-5 or 6 characters)
Curse of the Azure Bonds (level 5 to 10 characters)
Secret of the Silver Blades (Level 10 to 16 characters)
Pools of Darkness (level 15-ish to level 40 characters)
Pools of Darkness is a really, really neat game.
The novels are:
Pool of Radiance
Pools of Darkness
Pool of Twilight (not made into a game)
and (with unrelated characters) the Azure Bonds trilogy.
But, anyway, the Pools are only similar in that they're planar gates. The
Pool of Radiance let Tyranthraxus into the world. The Pools of Darkness
let Bane take good chunks of the world to him, for ease in crushing.
(Neat stories, for D&D. I can't believe I remember this much about them.
The Elminster versus Gothmenes scene is quite deliberately made to be
an imitation of Gandalf vs the Balrog. It's pretty funny.)
Timofei Shatrov
everyone with this message:
>On Tue, 30 Apr 2002 21:01:18 +0100, Angelo Braz <angel...@clix.pt> tried to
>confuse everyone with this message:
>
>>What are the 3 best roguelike games out there?
>>
>>So far I only know Adom and a little bit of NetHack...
>>
>>What you think?
>
>I just found this little game:
>http://www.bay12games.com/armok.htm
>
>Download it and you'll die laughing.
>
>The most silly features:
<snip>
Well, it all fades in comparison with descriptions of different body parts and
substances. Where else can you find boiling temperature of brain tissue, colour
of blood in gaseous form (!) and whether liquid bone conducts electricity. Man,
this game was written by maniac.
Totto
news:20020511190038...@mb-ca.aol.com:
> Matija said:
>
>> and that's just why you and karkian (yes, pun intended :))
>> haven't grown to absolutely *adore* the game. things start
>> to get interesting in the second half.
>
> ::doesn't know what the pun means but WANTS to... le sigh::
Heh. Heh heh heh. Interesting mental image. *instinctively reaches for
stack of LAMs at mention of karkians*
> Many books make this same mistake. They start out with a confusing,
> seemingly-profound-but-actually-just-irritatingly-vague sequence in
> the very beginning that you never understand until near the end.
> This turns people off from the books at the start, but if they can
> get past the start there's usually a good tale in there.
Well, I admit that hunting terrorists in the bombed-out ruins of a famous
structure in New York City could be termed a bit unoriginal or bad-taste,
despite the game's original release date.
If in doubt, the plot starts twisting after a couple of missions.
It is also worth to note that the game creators know their conspiracy lore
well. Reading Illuminatus! by Wilson and Shea added to the experience
because it made me catch that many more of the references, but it is by no
means obligatory. The game world is pretty internally consistent, and well
fleshed out through myriads of random dialogue, newspaper clippings, and
the like.
Other sets of realworld references range from classic SciFi ("Gully
Foyle"?!) to contemporary movies. There are a lot of them.
To comment on some other points upthread, I'd like to add that the perhaps
best gaming magazine about (PC Gamer) absolutely adores the game.
Incidentally, I find that PC Gamer's opinions tend to coincide pretty well
with mine. It has however gotten very mixed reviews elsewhere (ranging
from "excellent" to "overhyped", mostly), and seems to polarize opinions
quite well in this forum, also.
Incidentally, Sam, was that your letter printed in the last PC gamer
issue?
- Tor "at least you didn't call him a greasel" E.