New player needs advice.
AJ
how you can get such deep and immersive gameplay using nothing but ascii
characters. At first it was really hard to swallow the 'graphics', but now I
don't even see the ascii anymore, I automatically picture in my mind what
the characters represent. This is way better than what any nvidia or ati
card can put out ;).
Anyway, I read that archers were good first characters so I rolled one. It
was lots of fun until I started having ammo shortage problems. Because it
was my first game, I didn't know what I could or could not melee, so I used
my bow almost all the time. I used fletchery on logs to good use, but I
still ran out eventually (especially on those 'tension' dungeons). Doesn't
help that fletchery sets are limited. It's also really annoying that you
can't stack individual arrows. I got frustrated so started playing
recklessly until I died at level 18 in the dwarven tomb.
After that I tried a wizard, which had severe mana problems (spells' PP
requirements go up as you level, right?), got surrounded and died. I read
that wizards should dual-wield shields and focus on PV, which I think is
really silly. If that's what it takes to be successful with one then I won't
play one. Oh, and how do tactics work for casters? Why should I not be in
coward mode all the time?
Tried to find some info on the other classes but most in-depth guides I
found are for barbarians, which I have little interest in playing. If
someone could give me pointers for playing assassins and thieves, especially
in the early game, I would really appreciate it. Stealth is something that I
just can't find any real good info on. With max stealth, can you get close
enough to a hostile monster to backstab it, or must you find an invisibility
item?
Thank you.
TragicTheGarnerer
news:474d97b7$0$11982$a729...@news.telepac.pt...
> spells' PP requirements go up as you level, right?
No. From the manual:
ADOM uses a special number to describe the current attunement to the mana
flow of Ancardia for each and every spell the character learns. The more
often a spell is cast, the less close the attunement of the character to the
mana flow will be as his actions change the mana flow and force him to
re-attune him by again studying spellbooks.
Thus this number decreases with each spell casting until it is finally
reduced to zero and the character is no longer able to cast the spell.
As this number decreases, the PP requirements go up. You can increase it by
various means, e.g. by reading the appropriate spellbook. As you increase
it, the PP requirements go down.
> Oh, and how do tactics work for casters?
The same way it works for everybody else.
But as I remember, they are not as efficient at it as warrior classes
because it is influenced by stats and weapon skills. I could be wrong here
as I haven't played the game for quite some time.
> Why should I not be in coward mode all the time?
You could, but most likely you won't get far.
In ADOM wizards and other mages are not strict spellcasters like in some
other role-playing games and they should use weapons.
> If someone could give me pointers for playing assassins and thieves,
> especially in the early game, I would really appreciate it. Stealth is
> something that I just can't find any real good info on. With max stealth,
> can you get close enough to a hostile monster to backstab it, or must you
> find an invisibility item?
With higher speed and stealth you could attack monsters before they notice
you. So yes, it helps with backstabing. Although invisibility increases the
chance of backstabing even more.
> Thank you.
You are welcome.
Hope it helps.
AJ
However, I have been trying desperately to level an assassin but no matter
what I do I can never get one to even complete a single quest (I level up a
bit first in the ID). I can get close, by using berserker to kill most
monsters before they can touch me, and switching to coward mode for tough
mobs and hoping the poison will kick in and do its work. But it's an uphill
battle with the small HP pool and crap damage. I think I'm going to give up
on this class because even if I manage to get one to learn healing he'll
probably die on the next quest anyway.
Think I'm going to try a dwarf paladin carved out of rock.
"TragicTheGarnerer" <tragicthega...@email.t-com.hr> escreveu na
mensagem news:fikbao$r18$1...@ss408.t-com.hr...
Nathan
Yeah, you're right man. The ASCII graphics are definitely a plus for
this game, IMHO.
Here's the way I play it (with non-fighting classes):
I tend to play Hurthling Priest's all the time, so my play style is
entirely attuned to a spell casting life. I don't want to play the
melee classes because I feel spell casting is half of the fun .. maybe
I should try it sometime though, because that very same thing will add
some challenge to the game.
Right, so the first things that I want to do is get some offensive
projectile capabilities. If I start off with a spell book of minor
punishment (magic missile) or hellish flames (fire bolt) or something
like that, excellent. That will aid my survival a lot. (I keep that
spellbook with me, and only read it when my castings are getting low,
because I will probably have increased in level enough to learn many
more castings later.)
If I have no good offensive spells, I'll make a detour to the Infinite
Dungeon and hang around on levels 1 and 2 (or 2 and 3? I forget .. I
just hang around.) :) Great place to safely gain some experience and
maybe find some spell books. If you've picked a frail race and class
this is also probably the safest early-game strategy. The ID is a
great place to toughen up.
If I'm feeling lucky, I will tackle the top of the Puppy Cave early,
but if I encounter any obstacles I can't handle (rivers, ants,
powerful monster) I'll give up on the possibility of a live puppy and
just come back later when I'm much more powerful. Then I'll try the
Druid Dungeon (but usually not the actual druid) and pop back up to
look for Kranach if I can. But I'm very cautious here, and if I have
doubts about my survivability I'll head back to the Infinite Dungeon
for a little while.
Since I usually have a Hurtling I'll seek out some rocks for my first
projectile ammunition. I'll let a goblin rock thrower chase me around
and throw rocks if I cant' find them elsewhere. The main thing with
Magic Users is to work on all the ways to defend yourself. Ideally I
want to have offensive spells, also I want to train rocks, then arrows
and slings. If I've got full HP I'll usually melee the monsters I
find (unless it has some nasty effect when it touches me), then maybe
resort to rocks if I can't kill it quickly enough, then spells (coz
they're precious and I don't want to use them up too quickly.) Of
course, if I have an abundance of a spell, I will train that too.
Finding a good shield, defensive rings/girdles/etc is a priority too.
I tend to lean towards spears as my weapon since they get good
defensive bonuses too, but I will train up the sword or axe class too
when I get the chance. Spell casters might not be great in melee
combat, but every chance to conserve castings is worthwhile.
Oh, and strength is a major problem in the early game .. I keep myself
well fed and burdened as much as I can, to get that strength up. And
heavy use of the (T)actics command can save your life: I'm always in
coward mode when walking around, switch to berserk for projectile
weapons, and hover around the middle tactics for melee (remember,
shields don't get trained if you're too aggressive, and weapons don't
get trained if you're too defensive.)
Basically magic users have to be looked after, so monsters don't get
close enough to strike you very often. And you have to work hard on
training weapons so you can survive those lean spellbook times.
That's my tips for spell casters. They're all I know really. :) Did
I forget anything? Anyone disagree with these tactics?
Nathan.
coppro
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Look out for spoiler space.
Personally, my favorite way to start is with the puppy quest. It
serves as a filter for good characters (and good luck in terms of
anthill generation). I generally jump straight to the druid/healing
quest, though I will refrain from fighting Keethrax depending on the
character - he's too hard to fight then, and there's often two other
important concerns that need to be met to kill Keethrax - non-C
alignment and the ability to preserve the corpse (lots of holy water,
in other words).
At that point, I'll bring myself into the CoC and move on from there.
Also, I always drink from pools. It's more fun.
As for tactics, when playing a spellcaster, I generally melee as much
as I can in the early game, because if you aren't lucky, you will run
out of spells (almost invariably on the return trip through PC2). It
also strengthens the character for staying alive once spells cease to
be a commodity.
sandra
> I read that archers were good first characters so I rolled one.
> It was lots of fun until I started having ammo shortage problems.
> Because it was my first game, I didn't know what I could or could not
> melee, so I used my bow almost all the time. I used fletchery on logs to
> good use, but I still ran out eventually (especially on those 'tension'
> dungeons). Doesn't help that fletchery sets are limited.
More or less standard ways of getting more ammo is running around on
coward in front of monsters that shoot them, like kobolds and
barbarians. Barbarians you meet in the wilderness will usually net you
quite a few stacks.
> After that I tried a wizard, which had severe mana problems (spells' PP
> requirements go up as you level, right?), got surrounded and died.
Actually, it should go down as your wizard goes up in level because you
get discount up to 50 percent, IIRC. The only way it goes up is if
you're low on available castings. I think it starts increasing when
you're below 100.
> I read that wizards should dual-wield shields and focus on PV, which I
> think is really silly. If that's what it takes to be successful with one
> then I won't play one. Oh, and how do tactics work for casters? Why
> should I not be in coward mode all the time?
I guess no one dual-wields shields all the time, just in specific
situations -- you want to increase shield marks, you are fighting a
drainer or something else you do not want touching you at all if
possible, etc. I do, however, walk on coward with wizards all the time
and switch only when meleeing to increase weapon marks. I consider
spears perfect for wizards. You'll get very nice DV, especially in
combination with a shield and the damage of the weapon itself is almost
irrelevant as you'll fight with it only when it's not really important
to increase weapon marks and save castings.
As to other advice for wizards, get concentration up to 100 ASAP and get
treasure hunter talent ASAP -- you want to find as many books as
possible so as not to run out of attack spells. I find magic-related
talents more or less useless and go with DV-PV ones after that.
> Tried to find some info on the other classes but most in-depth guides I
> found are for barbarians, which I have little interest in playing. If
> someone could give me pointers for playing assassins and thieves,
> especially in the early game, I would really appreciate it. Stealth is
> something that I just can't find any real good info on. With max
> stealth, can you get close enough to a hostile monster to backstab it,
> or must you find an invisibility item?
The only successful thief I've ever had was a hobit. They level quickly
and if you find an altar, it's easy to increase you're piety and put it
to good use. Besides, they start with a few levels of rock-throwing,
making it much easier to survive until you get healing. Starting a
character born under candle (faster healing) makes life easier early on
for anyone starting without healing, including assassins and thieves.
Not sure about the exact ways stealth works. At high levels monsters
often do not notice you even when very close, but I usually find
something more important to increase in the early game, so I have no
idea whether having 100 stealth early on would be effective.
s.
Darren Grey
> Anyway, I read that archers were good first characters so I rolled one. It
> was lots of fun until I started having ammo shortage problems. Because it
> was my first game, I didn't know what I could or could not melee, so I used
> my bow almost all the time. I used fletchery on logs to good use, but I
> still ran out eventually (especially on those 'tension' dungeons). Doesn't
> help that fletchery sets are limited. It's also really annoying that you
> can't stack individual arrows. I got frustrated so started playing
> recklessly until I died at level 18 in the dwarven tomb.
Getting to level 18 is pretty impressive for someone that's not played
long. You obviously were doing some things right :) But some
pointers are in order... Firstly, any characters can master pretty
much everything in the game. To only use one type of combat is
extremely restrictive, and regardless of class you should be using
melee, missiles and magic in combination. Each of them applies
differently to different situations, and obviously certain classes
lean more towards each part, but it's silly to wholly ignore any of
the three.
As an archer you'll find that firing missiles at things will make most
combat a breeze. But melee is still handy, and against some monsters
necessary (eg doppelgangers). Normally against weak monsters I'd
stick to a spear and shield (or some good weapon I find), whilst
against tougher monsters I'll keep my distance and pepper them with
arrows. Arrows can be easily attained by barbarian encounters in the
wilderness, and after a certain level archers can get huge piles of
them from fletching logs. I normally throw away the arrows that don't
stack and just keep big piles of plain 1d6 arrows and whatever handy
slaying ones I find.
A high elven archer can normally learn spells fairly well too.
Offensive magic won't be all that useful since you won't have much PP
(though getting the Concentration skill helps), but utility spells
like Teleportation can really come in handy. Spells like fireball can
also get you out of tricky situations, and healing spells have their
use. With this box of tricks at your disposal you can get yourself
past any obstacle.
> After that I tried a wizard, which had severe mana problems (spells' PP
> requirements go up as you level, right?), got surrounded and died. I read
> that wizards should dual-wield shields and focus on PV, which I think is
> really silly. If that's what it takes to be successful with one then I won't
> play one. Oh, and how do tactics work for casters? Why should I not be in
> coward mode all the time?
Coward mode should be used by any character when they're not in melee
combat (when firing missiles you might want to turn it to some
aggressive flavour, but it doesn't make a huge difference). It's also
better to concentrate on DV than PV (though in the early game PV is
hugely important). If you find your PP requirements for a specific
spell going up it means you're running out of castings of it and need
to read the book again.
But again you shouldn't focus solely on magic. Wizards find it much
harder to raise melee and missile skills (if you want a more balanced
spellcaster in this respect I'd advise priests), but it's still
important to get them capable with a good melee weapon and with
missiles. Against runty monsters like goblins there's no reason to
waste spells. However as the game progresses you'll get more PP and
spell costs will go down, and you might find later on that you use
spells on most things.
> Tried to find some info on the other classes but most in-depth guides I
> found are for barbarians, which I have little interest in playing. If
> someone could give me pointers for playing assassins and thieves, especially
> in the early game, I would really appreciate it. Stealth is something that I
> just can't find any real good info on. With max stealth, can you get close
> enough to a hostile monster to backstab it, or must you find an invisibility
> item?
Stealth does allow backstabbing, yeah, but the chance of being hidden
isn't always that high. You also need a decent Backstabbing skill
level. Stealth doesn't feature too well in the game, and you'll
generally want to try to beef up your assassin or thief before
encountering anything too powerful. Don't let yourself get
surrounded, and keep missiles and magic around to help you out in any
situation. With a weak character I would normally wait till I get to
level 6-8 on VD1 before advancing anywhere else in the game - means
you get a few more HP under your belt to survive attacks longer.
Later in the game you'll find that herbs will be vital to boosting
your toughness and getting more HP.
Best of luck with your characters in future. Hope you find a class
that suits your own playstyle well :)
--
Darren Grey
Silent
tips for starting up. Its also great to see some fresh enthusiasm for
the game. This thread has brought up questions I have on spellbooks
On Nov 28, 9:59 pm, Nathan <tko...@yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
> (I keep that
> spellbook with me, and only read it when my castings are getting low,
> because I will probably have increased in level enough to learn many
> more castings later.)
I've found that starvation is a big concern in the early part of the
game, for several reasons, including encumbrance and poverty. So what
I do, as a wizard is read a spell book once to initially learn the
spell, and then once my concentration gets to 100 (being a top
priority), I read the spell book as much as I can to make it disappear
from my inventory. This lightens my load, and conserving energy. Am I
making a mistake in doing this? Another reason I do this is out of
fear of damage by water or trap doors....
What factors influence the number of castings you get each time you
read a spellbook? Is it concentration? Is it the proficiency you have
in casting the spell (e.g. "You have become more efficient in 'Frost
Bolt' spell (now +5)")? Does learning or willpower have something to
do with it? Or how about blessed, uncursed, cursed status of the tome?
I've noticed with some characters, when I read a tome, it is more
difficult to "gain any new insights".
Something dictates the number of times that I can read a tome. When I
fail to "gain any new insights" when attempting to read a tome, does
that count as one usage of the tome? Should I focus on getting
attribute points up or skill points up before I read the book into
oblivion?
Thanks.
Silent
Darren Grey
> What factors influence the number of castings you get each time you
> read a spellbook? Is it concentration? Is it the proficiency you have
> in casting the spell (e.g. "You have become more efficient in 'Frost
> Bolt' spell (now +5)")? Does learning or willpower have something to
> do with it? Or how about blessed, uncursed, cursed status of the tome?
The learning stat plays a very big role, as does your level and the b/
u/c status of the tome. These all affect your chance of actually
learning the spell in the first place too.
Different people do different things with spellbooks depending on how
they like to play. Normally in the early game I'll read each book
just once, and only read it again when I run out of castings. This is
because in my experience you get more knowledge of the spell this way
(since you always get more castings from a fresh reading than if
you're adding to existing knowledge of the spell). However if I don't
actually care about the spell or I'm not worried about running out of
castings (eg a spellbook of Light) then I'll read it till the book
disappears to train my Le stat.
> Something dictates the number of times that I can read a tome. When I
> fail to "gain any new insights" when attempting to read a tome, does
> that count as one usage of the tome? Should I focus on getting
> attribute points up or skill points up before I read the book into
> oblivion?
Each book has an internal counter of how many times you can read it, a
bit like a wand or fletchery set. Failing to gain new insights counts
as a use of this, though failing to understand the spellbook doesn't.
--
Darren Grey
Nathan
> I've found that starvation is a big concern in the early part of the
> game, for several reasons, including encumbrance and poverty. So what
> I do, as a wizard is read a spell book once to initially learn the
> spell, and then once my concentration gets to 100 (being a top
> priority), I read the spell book as much as I can to make it disappear
> from my inventory. This lightens my load, and conserving energy. Am I
> making a mistake in doing this? Another reason I do this is out of
> fear of damage by water or trap doors....
That is certainly a valid fear. But, when I think back to the bad
things that have happened to my characters, water damage has never
been much of a concern. If it is a rare and precious spell book I
might rethink this strategy, but I do like to keep one offensive spell
book with me. If I have to be diving into a river, I'll often be
coming back up that way anyway, so will leave paper/metal things
beside the previous down-stairs (utilizing the way there is no
activity on a level once I've left it.) There is eventually a way to
prevent water damage being much of a concern too. ;)
As for food, I very much like playing Hurthlings, so I have a cooking
set and am training my food preservation skill as I go, so food isn't
often much of a problem for me. You eventually learn the kinds of
things that can provide sustenance when the need becomes desperate
too. But eating monster corpses (the safe ones) whenever you can
really does help .. especially so you can learn their effects.
hehe.
If food is starting to be a problem, I will eat more of the less-
favoured corpses, and decrease my level of burdenment (I can almost
always come back for the equipment later.) Basically, with
experience, food does start to be less of a problem. I usually
lighten my load (holy symbol, musical instrument, etc.) at the
beginning of the game, and then load up with food.
> What factors influence the number of castings you get each time you
> read a spellbook? Is it concentration? Is it the proficiency you have
> in casting the spell (e.g. "You have become more efficient in 'Frost
> Bolt' spell (now +5)")? Does learning or willpower have something to
> do with it? Or how about blessed, uncursed, cursed status of the tome?
Darren has explained spellbooks pretty well. I would only add that,
if you cast directly from the book, you can cast forever. But it does
cost you more points, and I think the effectiveness of the spell is
better too. I almost never book-cast (in fact, I usually set the
variable that removes the option to), but it can be a useful thing to
know.
> I've noticed with some characters, when I read a tome, it is more
> difficult to "gain any new insights".
Some classes do find it quite difficult to learn spells. But certain
races can counter this somewhat.
For proper magic users this isn't a problem though. And it's worth
noting that wizards (only wizards?) find many more spell books than
other classes.
> Something dictates the number of times that I can read a tome. When I
> fail to "gain any new insights" when attempting to read a tome, does
> that count as one usage of the tome? Should I focus on getting
> attribute points up or skill points up before I read the book into
> oblivion?
As Darren pointed out, each spell can be read a limited number of
times. It's just like a wand in that is has a random number of
readings available, just you never get to know how many. Note also
that the blessed/uncursed/cursed status of the book greatly influences
how many castings a successful reading will give you. So there are
times when using a little holy water on the book could be useful.
Nathan.
TragicTheGarnerer
news:1065e2fd-99d3-4b6f...@f3g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 30, 5:57 am, Silent <ajayd...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> What factors influence the number of castings you get each time you
>> read a spellbook? Is it concentration? Is it the proficiency you have
>> in casting the spell (e.g. "You have become more efficient in 'Frost
>> Bolt' spell (now +5)")? Does learning or willpower have something to
>> do with it? Or how about blessed, uncursed, cursed status of the tome?
>
> The learning stat plays a very big role, as does your level and the b/
> u/c status of the tome. These all affect your chance of actually
> learning the spell in the first place too.
I'd just add that class has the biggest role in determining how good you
learn a spell as does the spell itself( it's much easier to learn and
improve your knowledge in Light spell than in Greater Identify).
I remember my orc priest was better at learning spells than gray elf
druid( who had better learning) although they are both members of the
'semi-spellcasters' group.
TragicTheGarnerer
> However, I have been trying desperately to level an assassin but no matter
> what I do I can never get one to even complete a single quest (I level up
> a bit first in the ID). I can get close, by using berserker to kill most
> monsters before they can touch me, and switching to coward mode for tough
> mobs and hoping the poison will kick in and do its work. But it's an
> uphill battle with the small HP pool and crap damage. I think I'm going to
> give up on this class because even if I manage to get one to learn healing
> he'll probably die on the next quest anyway.
Missed your post here, sorry. Hope you're still reading this.
Try using Candle as your starting month. It's not as "spectacular" as some
other months but it's a good month to start, specially if you're a new
player and play a class without Healing skill. It's main purpose is to keep
you alive through healing and divine interventions.
If you do choose to start with Candle, here's a bit of advice - don't get
adicted to it :) . It makes your early game *much* easier( it's not as
useful once you learn Healing but it still serves it's purpose) so you may
find that when you start a next character without Healing born in some
different month, he'll be almost imposible to keep alive( like you're
feeling right now). Similar thing happens when you play a Priest or a
Merchant, they both start with Detect Item Status - not as nearly as
essential like some skills but a damn useful one( specially early on).
Hope it helps and that you will continue to play an assassin, not my
favorite character but can be very fun to play with if equiped properly.