Cheating (or farming) Death

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SteveYo

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Sep 13, 2022, 1:50:14 PM9/13/22
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OK, I'd read that the horsemen on Astral can move fast while pushing through monsters, and now my Lvl-30-almost-extinctionist wizard has experienced this first-hand. (Would be full-extinctionist except I stepped on an eel corpse (covering the level-port trap), and 'ported out of the Plane of Water without my 3 equipped-to-teeth Archons).

Regardless, I was hoping to do some Death-farming for a while, but now jellies can't be used to block him in. It has to be boulders. So I wished up one boulder so far, with 3 more wishes left.

So, seeking learned advice:
1. MOST IMPORTANT! - can I poke a halberd at Death through boulders? I don't think so, right?
2.a. Where is the best spot to trap a rider with boulders, especially if the answer to #1 is no?
2.b. Also Included in my needs would be enough squares to push the boulder out of the way to get at Death's loot.

Thanks in advance...
steveyo

Pat Rankin

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Sep 13, 2022, 2:28:36 PM9/13/22
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On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:50:14 AM UTC-7, steven...@gmail.com wrote:
> Regardless, I was hoping to do some Death-farming for a while,
> but now jellies can't be used to block him in. It has to be boulders.
> So I wished up one boulder so far, with 3 more wishes left.

A blessed scroll of earth would net you 8 boulders if read
at a spot surrounded by 8 floor spots, and a single wish for
2 scrolls is likely to succeed. Asking for 3 or more will
probably yield just 1. (An uncursed scroll would drop a 9th
boulder on your head but then they're harder to maneuver.)

I think pushing a boulder on top of a Rider corpse triggers
its immediate revival these days but am not sure.

Monsters with a wand of striking will zap it at you if there
is a boulder in between.

> So, seeking learned advice:
> 1. MOST IMPORTANT! - can I poke a halberd at Death through
> boulders? I don't think so, right?

You need to see the target and not have any obstacles. Even
if telepathy is enough to see (I'm not sure offhand; the Eyes
of the Overworld definitely would be) boulders will still be an
obstacle. So you're right, "no". But you can throw or shoot
missiles 'over/under/through' the boulder. Wand zaps and
spell casts too.

I think that if you manage to get a slow monster attack past
a Rider's innate resistance, the slowness will be remembered
by the corpse and reapplied when it revives. Not sure though.
A wand of slow monster will most likely be resisted, but the
spell of same cast by a hight level hero might not be.

Janis Papanagnou

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Sep 13, 2022, 2:33:47 PM9/13/22
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On 13.09.2022 20:28, Pat Rankin wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:50:14 AM UTC-7, steven...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Regardless, I was hoping to do some Death-farming for a while,
>> but now jellies can't be used to block him in. It has to be boulders.
>> So I wished up one boulder so far, with 3 more wishes left.
>
> A blessed scroll of earth would net you 8 boulders if read
> at a spot surrounded by 8 floor spots, and a single wish for
> 2 scrolls is likely to succeed. [...]

Is this move possible? - Last time I checked (in NH-343) the Planes
(at least Astral, for sure) was exempt from a scroll of earth being
effective there. - Has that changed in NH-36x?

Janis

Janis Papanagnou

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Sep 13, 2022, 2:37:00 PM9/13/22
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On 13.09.2022 19:50, SteveYo wrote:
> OK, I'd read that the horsemen on Astral can move fast while pushing
> through monsters, and now my Lvl-30-almost-extinctionist wizard has
> experienced this first-hand. (Would be full-extinctionist except I
> stepped on an eel corpse (covering the level-port trap), and 'ported
> out of the Plane of Water without my 3 equipped-to-teeth Archons).

I suggest to always use the '^' command to check any covered square
before stepping on it; that takes no turn and makes sure you won't
get separated from your pets; given that you have pre-identified
the portal (e.g. by confused gold detection) in the first place, of
course.

Janis

SteveYo

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Sep 13, 2022, 3:13:22 PM9/13/22
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On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:28:36 PM UTC-4, Pat Rankin wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:50:14 AM UTC-7, steven...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Regardless, I was hoping to do some Death-farming for a while,
> > but now jellies can't be used to block him in. It has to be boulders.
> > So I wished up one boulder so far, with 3 more wishes left.
> A blessed scroll of earth would net you 8 boulders if read
> at a spot surrounded by 8 floor spots, and a single wish for
> 2 scrolls is likely to succeed. Asking for 3 or more will
> probably yield just 1. (An uncursed scroll would drop a 9th
> boulder on your head but then they're harder to maneuver.)

I do not think scrolls of earth work on Astral.

Pat Rankin

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Sep 13, 2022, 5:48:29 PM9/13/22
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On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 12:13:22 PM UTC-7, steven...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:28:36 PM UTC-4, Pat Rankin wrote:
>> A blessed scroll of earth would net you 8 boulders if read
>> at a spot surrounded by 8 floor spots [...]
>
> I do not think scrolls of earth work on Astral.

You're right. In the endgame they only work when read
on the Plane of Earth. If I was ever aware of that, I had
forgotten.
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