ascension @ new moon

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Yosemite Sam

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Sep 30, 2022, 10:48:48 PM9/30/22
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Have you ever ascended during a new moon? I know four days isn't very
much time for such a thing, but you guys are always bragging about how
fast and easy you ascend.

My best was getting to minetown, but that is a nest full of hostile monsters.
Wouldn't you know it a mind flayer showed up. It didn't get me, but the mob
I was fleeing through blinded did.

Pat Rankin

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Oct 1, 2022, 6:35:50 AM10/1/22
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On Friday, September 30, 2022 at 7:48:48 PM UTC-7, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> Have you ever ascended during a new moon? I know four days isn't very
> much time for such a thing, but you guys are always bragging about how
> fast and easy you ascend.

The only thing new moon does, aside from the "be careful"
message at the start of the game, is make melee with
cockatrices become more dangerous. And that increase in
danger is nullified if you're carrying a lizard corpse. To-be-3.7
relatively recently took out the lizard corpse override but it
still doesn't make new moon particularly challenging.

Starting and ascending on Friday the 13th is a far more
interesting (and much harder) challenge, not just because
you only have one day. You start with -1 luck so prayer won't
work until you're able to repair that. The equilibrium point
for luck timeout also shifts from the usual 0 to -1 so you
can't simply wait it out, and if you achieve a temporary luck
boost it won't last. Once you've got a luckstone (or one of
the three luck-bestowing quest artifacts) though, things are
pretty much back to normal.

Janis Papanagnou

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Oct 1, 2022, 8:25:35 AM10/1/22
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On 01.10.2022 04:48, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> Have you ever ascended during a new moon? I know four days isn't very
> much time for such a thing, but you guys are always bragging about how
> fast and easy you ascend.

Data from those of my NH-343 games at NAO where xlogfiles are available:

379 A - -
51 A - N
51 A N -
16 A N N
327 D - -
3 D - N
5 D N -
34 D N N

The flags are in this order Died/Ascended, N/- birth during new moon,
N/- death during new moon, and the first column shows the number of
games that match games with those flags.

The 16 ascensions during new moon are the games starting/ending at

deathdate=20110106:birthdate=20110104
deathdate=20141123:birthdate=20141120
deathdate=20150717:birthdate=20150715
deathdate=20140629:birthdate=20140627
deathdate=20160605:birthdate=20160604
deathdate=20140131:birthdate=20140130
deathdate=20140529:birthdate=20140527
deathdate=20160706:birthdate=20160704
deathdate=20111225:birthdate=20111223
deathdate=20151014:birthdate=20151011
deathdate=20140627:birthdate=20140626
deathdate=20150520:birthdate=20150517
deathdate=20141223:birthdate=20141221
deathdate=20160408:birthdate=20160405
deathdate=20160804:birthdate=20160802
deathdate=20160209:birthdate=20160207

>
> My best was getting to minetown, but that is a nest full of hostile monsters.
> Wouldn't you know it a mind flayer showed up. It didn't get me, but the mob
> I was fleeing through blinded did.

From my data I cannot see that new moon would significantly affect the
chances, which backs up Pat's statement. Although I have twice as much
deaths during a pure new moon game compared to a game ascended during
a new moon phase.

For more accurate data and conclusions we should consider all games at
NAO.

Janis

Jukka Lahtinen

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Oct 1, 2022, 10:34:36 AM10/1/22
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Pat Rankin <r.pat....@gmail.com> writes:

> Starting and ascending on Friday the 13th is a far more
> interesting (and much harder) challenge, not just because
> you only have one day. You start with -1 luck so prayer won't

Doesn't the game only check the date when you start it or restore a
saved game?
So, as long as you don't save, the "only one day" is not an issue.

--
Jukka Lahtinen

Pat Rankin

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Oct 2, 2022, 4:03:29 PM10/2/22
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On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 7:34:36 AM UTC-7, Jukka Lahtinen wrote:
> Doesn't the game only check the date when you start it or restore a
> saved game?
> So, as long as you don't save, the "only one day" is not an issue.

Yes. Same for phase of moon.

If you're actually playing when crossing the time threshold,
continuing is probably reasonable. But letting the game sit
idle until the next day and then resuming seems to be against
the spirit of a time-oriented challenge.

Chris Bowers

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Oct 14, 2022, 2:48:09 AM10/14/22
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Two (realtime) days is the pretty much fastest for me. I usually ascend in 3-5 days. I'm not sure I could ascend in a single (realtime) day. If I started as something super easy (valkyrie/Samurai) then maybe. I've never tried to ascend in just a day. I think I could do it. But why?


Chris Bowers

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Oct 14, 2022, 2:48:51 AM10/14/22
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I also play super fast. I also don't use a pet. I also die a lot.

Janis Papanagnou

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Oct 14, 2022, 5:40:49 AM10/14/22
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On 14.10.2022 08:48, Chris Bowers wrote:
> Two (realtime) days is the pretty much fastest for me. I usually
> ascend in 3-5 days.

Same here if I play continuously. But often I also pause some days
or occasionally even weeks. That's also because I don't try speed
ascensions, I always play in (sort of) the same way, preparing my
character to win. Speed ascensions - which I consider a conduct -
require a different style of playing. Those two styles also differ
in the results; I'd certainly not reach the same ascension rate if
I play faster and do the game less prepared in a speed ascension
attempt.

> I'm not sure I could ascend in a single (realtime) day. If I started
> as something super easy (valkyrie/Samurai) then maybe. I've never
> tried to ascend in just a day. I think I could do it. But why?

There's an online speed ascension I viewed just a few days ago on
Youtube. It was from user Adeon (I think) and it's recorded at NAO,
so could be searched for there as well. On Youtube you'll have some
comments during the game. He did it online in less than 2 hours. He
had of course chosen a dwarven valkyrie, the easiest and therefore
best class for such an attempt. And he was playing version NH-343.
NAO keeps track of speed ascensions (IIRC), so there's probably
quite a few games that can be replayed there if someone's interested
in the techniques.

Janis

Pat Rankin

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Oct 14, 2022, 5:40:51 PM10/14/22
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On Friday, October 14, 2022 at 2:40:49 AM UTC-7, Janis Papanagnou wrote:
> There's an online speed ascension I viewed just a few days ago on
> Youtube. It was from user Adeon (I think) and it's recorded at NAO,
> so could be searched for there as well. On Youtube you'll have some
> comments during the game. He did it online in less than 2 hours. He
> had of course chosen a dwarven valkyrie, the easiest and therefore
> best class for such an attempt. And he was playing version NH-343.
> NAO keeps track of speed ascensions (IIRC), so there's probably
> quite a few games that can be replayed there if someone's interested
> in the techniques.

There's an organization called something like "European Speedrunners
Association" (I think; the acronym used is ESA) and they have periodic
live-streamed marathons of a large variety of games. Last year
'luxidream' played nethack in it. He had a 90 minute time slot allotted.

After a bit of start-scumming for better characteristics, he started a
game, then died in Sokoban after about 15 minutes. He immediately
started another game (I don't think he took the time to start-scum the
second time because of the real-time deadline) and ascended in
1 hour 21 minutes and a few seconds. (They didn't cut him off when
his session exceeded 90 minutes after assurances were given that
end of game was imminent.)

It wasn't played on a server but I watched it live-streamed on twitch
after it was announced on r/nethack at reddit. He played to-be-3.7
as it stood a year ago and was using the curses interface on a display
showing a lot of rows and columns (curses is better at utilizing extra
space than tty) but unfortunately a fairly small font to enable that.

It's available for viewing (the whole 90-something minutes, not just
the ascension; I just verified that this link works) at
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1099828707

He mainly used a drum or horn to scare monsters away. At the end
of the game he was running around the Astral level with AC 3 (that's
+3, not a typo)!
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