Jazz Jackrabbit
Mark Mach Stoltzfus
Bryan King Parker <par...@cs.utexas.edu> wrote:
[snip]
>The most bitter disappointment was Jazz Jackrabbit... geez, what crap.
>If I wanted to play Sonic the Hedgehog, I'd plug in my Genesis. How
>can they get away with crap like that? I only have one question...
>what video mode & method are they using for the scrolling?
Hey, if it's such crap, why are you curious how they got the scrolling
so smooth and fast?
>I also downloaded the Apogee preview pictures. Damn... one of the games
>is yet another Wolf 3-D clone, aren't we tired of these yet? (yes) The
>next was another video game rip-off... this one stolen from Super Mario
>Kart. And the last was... oh yea, another fighting game. For Christ's
>sake, buy a console machine, there are plenty of SFII & MK rip-offs on
>those machines. <sigh>
I welcome anyone to make a Wolf 3-D clone who wants to. I won't play
it, but it's good coding practice for them, and they never forced you
to play it. If you payed for it, well, tough shit.
>Anyway, this definitely gives me new hope and all of you as well. We need
>some quality, original game! Or remakes of classics! There are alot
>of games waiting to be redone right.
> Bryan
Original games are nice, but if they're that good, I'd prefer to pay
for them so that their clever authors are rewarded for their creativity.
Keep in mind Apogee has always shown considerable creativity and talent.
I doubt anything they release is "crap." (as I recall it is Apogee that
made Jazz Jackrabbit)
Mark
p.s. I'd consider Wolf 3-D a classic. Perhaps you should consider
the "clones" as a "remakes of a classic," and you'd be a lot less
disappointed.
Bryan King Parker
of shareware/public domain games from wuarchive... with two exceptions:
CyberDogs v1.0 is EXCELLENT if you have a buddy to play with and you
like Gauntlet-style shoot-em ups. The other exception is Aethra, which
is a role playing game... haven't gotten into it yet, but from first
glance it appears to have the same basic character / combat engine as
Dungeons of Kairn, which was truly an excellent CRPG! Well, it seems to
have major updates in every area: graphics, sound, size, etc.
The most bitter disappointment was Jazz Jackrabbit... geez, what crap.
If I wanted to play Sonic the Hedgehog, I'd plug in my Genesis. How
can they get away with crap like that? I only have one question...
what video mode & method are they using for the scrolling?
I also downloaded the Apogee preview pictures. Damn... one of the games
is yet another Wolf 3-D clone, aren't we tired of these yet? (yes) The
next was another video game rip-off... this one stolen from Super Mario
Kart. And the last was... oh yea, another fighting game. For Christ's
sake, buy a console machine, there are plenty of SFII & MK rip-offs on
those machines. <sigh>
mval...@draco.lnec.pt
: In article <3588gi$3...@strauss.udel.edu> amis...@strauss.udel.edu (Mark Mach Stoltzfus) writes:
: >Hey, if it's such crap, why are you curious how they got the scrolling
: >so smooth and fast?
: *grin*
: arjan brussee - programmer of JJ
YYYYYYYIEIIIEEIIIIIEEEE a star programmer, a celebrity !! Here !!!
YYYIIIIEEEE ( histeric screams, Beatle fan like )...
Could I get your autograph, please !????
On a printout with the source code for the Jazz scroll routine ;-)...
C U!
Mario Valente
Bryan King Parker
>>The most bitter disappointment was Jazz Jackrabbit... geez, what crap.
>>If I wanted to play Sonic the Hedgehog, I'd plug in my Genesis. How
>>can they get away with crap like that? I only have one question...
>>what video mode & method are they using for the scrolling?
>
>Hey, if it's such crap, why are you curious how they got the scrolling
>so smooth and fast?
Well, the reason I call it crap is because it is a blatant copy of another
game down to almost every detail. OK, Jazz a gun, Sonic doesn't. So
what. Yes, the scrolling is very well done... however, that in itself
certainly does not make up for being crap.
Bryan King Parker
>As as a platform game engine, I think few would disagree that its
>technically superior to any other PC platform game so far-- yet I agree
>that its gameplay tended to be a little repetitive (run whilst shooting
>and don't stop). The speed was visually exciting, but did lead to a
>"run--pause--run--pause" style of gameplay. Younger players used to
>a Sonic-style game would probably enjoy it more (heck, I grew up on
>static backgrounds, so I get confused in slow scrollers!)
Yes, you're absolutely right. The scrolling is by far the best I've
seen for any action game on the PC. In fact, I was dead wrong in
calling the game 'crap'. My only complaint against it is its un-
originiality.
Bryan
Tim Triemstra
|
| : *grin*
Most people in this group are obviously impressed with the scrolling in
this game, those that aren't impressed have to at least concede that it
can't be done much better.
However, I have real curiousities why such a complete rip from Sonic was
necessary. There are minor playability differences (the bonus stages
seem fairly irrelevent and the "shooting" is nice) but the heart of the
game is as close as a brother to Sonic.
Couldn't things like the shoes, the stars floating around the guy when
invincible and things like that been a little more original. Even
picking up the items (aka rings) could have been changed a little bit
more than just making them different sprites.
I don't want to over-criticize because Jazz is a good game, it just
occurs to me that the lack of originality could really hurt a well done
programming effort.
--
Tim.
= Tim Triemstra = emp...@umcc.umich.edu =
== ==
= Wouldn't you like to be a pepper too? =
Joel Finch
an Epic release.
And to the person quoted in that message:
you seem to take it as a personal insult that someone
should choose to spend their own time and resources
to make a game that you personally don't want to play.
Get a grip. It's not like you're being forced to use
any of them. Go plug in your damn Genesis and let the
rest of us get on with it.
Seeya, Joel :)
(jfi...@ozemail.com.au)
Fastgraph
082...@pc-lab.fbk.eur.nl (A.R. Brussee) writes:
>>If I wanted to play Sonic the Hedgehog, I'd plug in my Genesis. How
>> remember some people don't have Sonic. There are a LOT of
people who like it, who cares?
Arjan, I am so *happy* Jazz Jackrabbit got flamed on Internet!
Now if anybody flames my book, or Fastgraph, or anything else,
I won't even worry about it. I'll know I am good company. I mean,
if Arjan's game got flamed, then that means even the greatest
stuff in the world could get flamed! No amount of flaming will ever
bother me again. :)
BTW, I think Jazz is about the most nearly perfect side scroller
ever written for the PC. It is beautiful, intelligent, humorous,
playable, well-designed and well-programmed. Truly a work of art!
Too good for Epic, though. :)
Diana
A.R. Brussee
>>If I wanted to play Sonic the Hedgehog, I'd plug in my Genesis. How
remember some people don't have Sonic. There are a LOT of people who like
it, who cares?
>Hey, if it's such crap, why are you curious how they got the scrolling
>so smooth and fast?
*grin*
>I doubt anything they release is "crap." (as I recall it is Apogee that
>made Jazz Jackrabbit)
Epic Megagames it is.
Dr. Cat
Nice art, animation, sound, music, great attention to detail, and
eminently playable. (I won't mention the scrolling, technical wizardry
doesn't interest or impress me as much as creative skills.)
Unoriginal? Geez, I hated that unoriginal "Secret of Monkey Island"
game, because it was just like King's Quest only with different art and
dialogue and plot and music and characters and puzzles and settings.
Other than that it was EXACTLY the same.
-- Dr. Cat
Victor Putz
HL> Apogee that made Jazz Jackrabbit)
Uh-oh, prepare to be boarded. Epic Megagames made Jazz, not Apogee.
HL> Hey, if it's such crap, why are you curious how they got the
HL> scrolling so smooth and fast?
As as a platform game engine, I think few would disagree that its
technically superior to any other PC platform game so far-- yet I agree
that its gameplay tended to be a little repetitive (run whilst shooting
and don't stop). The speed was visually exciting, but did lead to a
"run--pause--run--pause" style of gameplay. Younger players used to
a Sonic-style game would probably enjoy it more (heck, I grew up on
static backgrounds, so I get confused in slow scrollers!)
HL> CyberDogs v1.0 is EXCELLENT if you have a buddy to play with and
HL> you like Gauntlet-style shoot-em ups.
Congratulations to Ronny Wester, author of CyberDogs.
-->VPutz
Tim Sweeney
>Well, the reason I call it crap is because it is a blatant copy of another
>game down to almost every detail. OK, Jazz a gun, Sonic doesn't. So
>what. Yes, the scrolling is very well done... however, that in itself
>certainly does not make up for being crap.
>
Fortunately, Jazz Jackrabbit is shareware and you don't have to pay for
it if you don't like it. We are deeply saddened that you didn't enjoy
our game, yet we find some consolation in the fact that several million
other people will try the shareware version of Jazz, tens of thousands
of them will indeed send in their registration checks, and the Jazz
development team will earn several hundred thousand dollars in the
wonderful process of free market economics.
-Tim/Epic
Douglas Limmer
>Fortunately, Jazz Jackrabbit is shareware and you don't have to pay for
>it if you don't like it. We are deeply saddened that you didn't enjoy
>our game, yet we find some consolation in the fact that several million
>other people will try the shareware version of Jazz, tens of thousands
>of them will indeed send in their registration checks, and the Jazz
>development team will earn several hundred thousand dollars in the
>wonderful process of free market economics.
You'd've had one more customer if you'd've gotten the program to work with my
PAS 16 without it killing the game between stages ...
Doug L.
--
Douglas Limmer - lim...@math.orst.edu
"Stand back everybody; I'm gonna express myself!"
- "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Polka Patterns", Square 1 Television
The Dude
I thought Jazz was definitely cool. It's the first game (besides Zork III)
that I actually considered paying for. I usually had enough by the time I
reach the end of the shareware copy, and the game tries to tell me how I
just _have_ to buy the next seven episodes just so I can kill the head bad
guy. You don't know how boring that pitch is. But with Jazz, I find the
game cool in and of itself, not for reaching the end and killing the big
turtle guy. It's going to be a great moral decision for me to actually shell
out money, but in this case it's probably well deserved. I don't think I'll
go for the Jazz t-shirt, though. Is there a Jazz coffee mug?
Tom
--
Thomas Cook
gt0...@prism.gatech.edu
The Dude
: You'd've had one more customer if you'd've gotten the program to work with my
: PAS 16 without it killing the game between stages ...
It works fine with my PAS 16.
Tom
--
Thomas Cook
gt0...@prism.gatech.edu
A.R. Brussee
>Arjan, I am so *happy* Jazz Jackrabbit got flamed on Internet!
oh JOY! I know all the flaws in Jazz (and there's a LOT programming wise
too), and we'll try to address these things in a sequel. The sequel will
probably have parallaxing and such stuff, and I'll try to keep the frame
rate the same.
A.R. Brussee
the bonusstages are a simple thing that is HARDWARE on the nintendo, all the
games that use the so-called MOde-7 look like this. Gameplay is totally
different.
There are a lot of games out there which have stars around the guy when he's
invincible, have springs, shooting, etc. When we started this we knew one
thing: Sonic was the best platform game out there, and we just wanted to
capture a fast paced feeling like that game. There isn't a copyright on fast
scrolling&running rodents.
arjan
A.R. Brussee
>You'd've had one more customer if you'd've gotten the program to work with my
>PAS 16 without it killing the game between stages ...
well, the PAS is just a wierd soundcard. We try to get as much custom
support in there as possible, but even the PAS-s brothers seem to be
incompatible with eachother. Be sure to run your initialization program and
to boot as CLEAN as possible.
We tested heavily it on a PAS (the last 4 weeks of programming were actually
done on a computer with a PAS-16 in it) but as the PC-platform stands
nowadays there's really no such thing as compatibility.
Fastgraph
082...@pc-lab.fbk.eur.nl (A.R. Brussee) writes:
>>Arjan, I am so *happy* Jazz Jackrabbit got flamed on Internet!
>> oh JOY! I know all the flaws in Jazz (and there's a LOT programming
wise too), and we'll try to address these things in a sequel.
Arjan, they are flaming my book, they are flaming my library, they are
flaming my magazine articles and my friends, next thing they will be
flaming my clothes!
It seems like as soon as you accomplish anything, no matter how hard
you work and how good you make it, somebody wants to tear it down.
Why do they do that?
Diana
Maurader
> >>Arjan, I am so *happy* Jazz Jackrabbit got flamed on Internet!
>
> >> oh JOY! I know all the flaws in Jazz (and there's a LOT programming
> wise too), and we'll try to address these things in a sequel.
> Arjan, they are flaming my book, they are flaming my library, they are
> flaming my magazine articles and my friends, next thing they will be
> flaming my clothes!
>
> It seems like as soon as you accomplish anything, no matter how hard
> you work and how good you make it, somebody wants to tear it down.
> Why do they do that?
Penis envy?
>
> Diana
>
Oops, guess not.... ;-)
Chuck
Brandon Taylor
>Arjan, they are flaming my book, they are flaming my library, they are
>flaming my magazine articles and my friends, next thing they will be
>flaming my clothes!
>
>It seems like as soon as you accomplish anything, no matter how hard
>you work and how good you make it, somebody wants to tear it down.
>Why do they do that?
>
>Diana
>
Flaming is an unfortunately common (although sometimes deserved) occurrence
on the Internet. The best way to deal with the non-deserved flames is to
simply ignore them. I believe that constructive criticism is a VERY
valuable thing to an author or developer, but flaming for flaming's sake
is infantile.
btw. Could I get a copy of the latest release of FastGraph Light :) ?
_______________________________________________________________________
Brandon E Taylor - Fujitsu Computer Products of America,
Advanced Systems Group.
2402 Clover Basin Drive, Longmont, Co. 80503
(303) 682-6462 e-mail: Tay...@Intellistor.com
Duane D Morin
A.R. Brussee <082...@pc-lab.fbk.eur.nl> wrote:
>There are a lot of games out there which have stars around the guy when he's
>invincible, have springs, shooting, etc. When we started this we knew one
>thing: Sonic was the best platform game out there, and we just wanted to
>capture a fast paced feeling like that game. There isn't a copyright on fast
>scrolling&running rodents.
Nor are passing spinning signposts to mark landmarks throughout the level,
or jumping onto big swinging balls to avoid spikepits, or any number of
other little details. The point was, I think, that a little more originality
would have made it a far, far better game. The first person to come up
with the idea of "Ok, Jump over the badguys and bonk them on the head"
had something original, look how many times it's been copied (who remembers
Bonk for the TurboGrafx?!) Sonic even had originality with the "super spin
and bust through stuff" gimmick. Jazzy's got a gun. Big whoop. Where's
the original "hook" to make us go wow? It is, after all, supposed to be a
game, not just a demonstration of programming excellence.
technically, a breakthrough. but I downloaded it saturday, and beat it
in about 3 hours (not straight, either). Gameplay, eh.
>arjan
P.S. - How come when defending the game you say "we" tried to do such and
such, but you sign yourself "programmer of jj"? Makes it sound like you're
a oneman show, IMHO.
ddm
GREG HJELSTROM
: Arjan, they are flaming my book, they are flaming my library, they are
: flaming my magazine articles and my friends, next thing they will be
: flaming my clothes!
: It seems like as soon as you accomplish anything, no matter how hard
: you work and how good you make it, somebody wants to tear it down.
: Why do they do that?
I agree, there seems to be a lot of negative posts. Like when doom
came out, then the next week all these programmers jump in and say
how trivial it is and how they could program it in one month, etc...
Greg
David Wareing
>The most bitter disappointment was Jazz Jackrabbit... geez, what crap.
>If I wanted to play Sonic the Hedgehog, I'd plug in my Genesis. How
>can they get away with crap like that? I only have one question...
>what video mode & method are they using for the scrolling?
What a stupid comment. Perhaps people *want* to play Sonic type
games on the PC? Sheesh.
>I also downloaded the Apogee preview pictures. Damn... one of the games
>is yet another Wolf 3-D clone, aren't we tired of these yet? (yes) The
No. How dare someone write a game that you're personally not interested
in huh? Geez, I'm sure glad we don't like the same games.
>next was another video game rip-off... this one stolen from Super Mario
>Kart. And the last was... oh yea, another fighting game. For Christ's
>sake, buy a console machine, there are plenty of SFII & MK rip-offs on
>those machines. <sigh>
Are you a born whiner or do you have to work hard at it?
>Anyway, this definitely gives me new hope and all of you as well. We need
>some quality, original game! Or remakes of classics! There are alot
>of games waiting to be redone right.
So do them and quit your whining. This is rec.games.programmer, not
rec.does.somone.want.to.write.my.perfect.game.for.me. If you think
something could be improved how about you try it before bucketing down
on everyone else's efforts?
Pathetic.
--
David Wareing
Adelaide, South Australia dwar...@apanix.apana.org.au
--------------------------------------------------------------
Macintosh Games & Multimedia Programming
Steve Hodsdon
>
> Arjan, they are flaming my book, they are flaming my library, they are
> flaming my magazine articles and my friends, next thing they will be
> flaming my clothes!
Your PJs?
>
> It seems like as soon as you accomplish anything, no matter how hard
> you work and how good you make it, somebody wants to tear it down.
> Why do they do that?
Because you're a "public" figure. All *I* get flamed about is using the
proper newsgroup for my postings...
Steve
bana...@teleport.com
I have to make a call on this flame jazz.jackrabbit
going on here.
IT WAS A GOOD GAME!
No matter HOW much it was like sonic the hedgehog, it was good the art, the
speed, the EVERYTHING.
Plus, isn't copying just a way of flattering the origonal?
Give em' a break, they worked hard on this.
rob
Juergen Egeling
|> Fastgraph (fast...@aol.com) wrote:
|> : It seems like as soon as you accomplish anything, no matter how hard
|> : you work and how good you make it, somebody wants to tear it down.
|> : Why do they do that?
|>
chance to tell otherprogrammers, that he JJ team gets about some bucks.
So, where will programmers go for? The promised couple of bucks? or to
any other gaming company???
I definetely think its a fine marketing strategie. ;-)
Juergen
Douglas Limmer
(A.R. Brussee) writes:
>In article <35du4a$g...@gaia.ucs.orst.edu> lim...@math.orst.edu (Douglas
Limmer) writes:
>
>>You'd've had one more customer if you'd've gotten the program to work with my
>>PAS 16 without it killing the game between stages ...
>
>well, the PAS is just a wierd soundcard. We try to get as much custom
>support in there as possible, but even the PAS-s brothers seem to be
>incompatible with eachother. Be sure to run your initialization program and
>to boot as CLEAN as possible.
Heh. I booted with just the PAS sound driver running [and 8 megs of memory].
Apparently, it wasn't clean enough.
Rainer Deyke
: It seems like as soon as you accomplish anything, no matter how hard
: you work and how good you make it, somebody wants to tear it down.
: Why do they do that?
Why do people flame fastgraph? I can think of several reasons:
1. setcolor function. I prefer passing the color as an argument to
every drawing function.
2. gotoxy functions. I prefer passing the starting location as
arguments.
3. fg_text requires length of string (if I remember correctly) passed
as argument. Why not use strlen?
4. Some functions (palette? dithered rectangle?) work differently in
different modes.
5. I see no point in clipping limits if half of the function ignore
them.
6. If the gif functions really use a static buffer, why not
dynamically allocate the memory instead?
7. Support for useless video modes, but very little support for
tweaked VGA modes.
8. No virtual pages for some modes.
--
+---------------------------------------------------------+
| "I don't work for HP, nor for anyone else, and if I did |
| I still wouldn't speak for them." |
| Rainer Deyke - rai...@mdddhd.fc.hp.com |
+---------------------------------------------------------+
Rich Gortatowsky
: Fastgraph (fast...@aol.com) wrote:
: : It seems like as soon as you accomplish anything, no matter how hard
: : you work and how good you make it, somebody wants to tear it down.
: : Why do they do that?
: Why do people flame fastgraph? I can think of several reasons:
: 1. setcolor function. I prefer passing the color as an argument to
: every drawing function.
: 2. gotoxy functions. I prefer passing the starting location as
: arguments.
: 3. fg_text requires length of string (if I remember correctly) passed
: as argument. Why not use strlen?
: 4. Some functions (palette? dithered rectangle?) work differently in
: different modes.
: 5. I see no point in clipping limits if half of the function ignore
: them.
: 6. If the gif functions really use a static buffer, why not
: dynamically allocate the memory instead?
: 7. Support for useless video modes, but very little support for
: tweaked VGA modes.
: 8. No virtual pages for some modes.
The lib. is fast, much of this due I assume to the use of some static
global data and the like. But... I agree.
In my engine I thought about going that route and decided against it in
Some areas. Write modes for example I implemented as a global item, the
overhead going the other way was too costly. ANd, why set the write mode
300 times inside a putpixel loops... Or, why set the color over & over
again as it does take time, not much, but when magnified by loops
it can appear. Colors however can be passed both of signed and unsigned
values both 16 & 32 bit. Same w/ coordinates. Though le" engine supports
resolutions (virtual and hopefully ACTUAL for some devices down the road)
of 65535x65535... A user of the lib may pass say Put(2345000,-345345,-346746);
w/ absolutely no complaints. The programmer may supply his/her own clipping
transformation etc routines or used the planned supplied systems. Same w/
Color handling & Write modes... I supply an openend ed arena so a> I can
easily extend it and B> So can anyone else.
I also have it merily perking w/ 386 code as I thought inititially would not
be possible... But it was. I'm like inches from getting multi-colored fills
perfected and FAST REAL REAL FST!. Does knowone out there use the extra
segment registers in these boxes (hint).
AH well nuff' hoot.
I agree with you generalluy that is. A graphics newbie would go through
sheer horror having to learn the PC video subsystem. I did. And still am.
A game library need be open ended enough that it can grow w/ you and is
a purrfect mate for C++. Even though I could plop another gr engine under
the hood of mine and call it a V-6. I found like 3-5 texts that yield far
better results than any lib. I tried and they all have wonderful source
examples of VGA,SVGA & X mode and much more inside em'. I learn something
this way, the PC video subsystem, tricks and niftys and the works...
The total cost of the books is between $200-$300 bucks so it does not
outprice say a library.. And I get a real library...
--
Rich Gortatowsky j...@raster.Kodak.COM
Eastman Kodak Company
These comments are mine alone and not Eastman Kodak's. How's that for a
simple and complete disclaimer?
Rainer Deyke
: 300 times inside a putpixel loops... Or, why set the color over & over
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: again as it does take time, not much, but when magnified by loops
^^^^^
In 256 color mode, you "set" the color by storing it in a global
variable. Besides, how often do you actually use the same color twice
in a row? Passing the color on the stack can actually be faster in
large model, and passing it in a register is *lots* faster.
Rich Gortatowsky
: Rich Gortatowsky (r...@raster.kodak.com) wrote:
: : 300 times inside a putpixel loops... Or, why set the color over & over
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: : again as it does take time, not much, but when magnified by loops
: ^^^^^
: In 256 color mode, you "set" the color by storing it in a global
: variable. Besides, how often do you actually use the same color twice
: in a row? Passing the color on the stack can actually be faster in
: large model, and passing it in a register is *lots* faster.
See what I wanted to do was have each raster have it's own writemode
but when looking at the logistics of this it proved impractical though
someday who knows. I would have to track which raster is current through
either a dispatcher or each and every primative. I decided upon the global.
As I stated I think... I do pass color in all routines and allow vectored
altering of the color data. This way negatives & values > the actual pallette
are still valid data. For Scientific reasons or perspective users of the lib
may need the ability to represent more data than a palette allows.
I've been contemplating adding cursor position in graphics for a few reasons.
Alot of texts seem to emply the method of moving a cursor then drawing a
point or line w/ the cursor as the base coordinate. One can still draw lines
w/ multiple coords but ALSO w/ the ability to position the cursor.
Possibly even multiple cursors for multiple pages or per page...
Dunno... Opinions are welcome...
: --
: +---------------------------------------------------------+
: | "I don't work for HP, nor for anyone else, and if I did |
: | I still wouldn't speak for them." |
: | Rainer Deyke - rai...@mdddhd.fc.hp.com |
: +---------------------------------------------------------+
--
Fastgraph
Deyke) writes:
>>Why do people flame fastgraph? I can think of several reasons:
>> 1. setcolor function. I prefer passing the color as an argument to
every drawing function.
To me, that would seem wasteful. If you pass more arguments than you
need, it is less efficient. If you draw a bunch of stuff using the same
color,
then you don't need to pass the color each time.
However, it is a matter of preference, and I respect your right to
disagree
with me. :)
2. gotoxy functions. I prefer passing the starting location as
arguments.
Again, it is a matter of preference and effeciency. You can always
write your own line function:
line(x1,y1,x2,y2)
{
fg_move(x1,y1);
fg_draw(x2,y2);
}
(I am not sure that is strictly efficient either.)
>> 3. fg_text requires length of string (if I remember correctly) passed
as argument. Why not use strlen?
I usually do something like fg_text(string,strlen(string)).
Ted wrote the fg_text function to require the string length so it
would be compatible with all the languages (not all languages
have 0 string terminators) and also so you could display less than
a whole string, for example when you want to highlight the first
letter of a menu item or something.
>> 4. Some functions (palette? dithered rectangle?) work differently in
different modes.
Of course they do. Palettes in CGA are completely different from
palettes in EGA and DACS in VGA. The dithered rectangles are
somewhat hardware dependent.
>> 5. I see no point in clipping limits if half of the function ignore
them.
Good point. It is a speed vs. functionality tradeoff. If we did clipping
checks in all the blit functions, it would slow down all the blits. Most
people seem to prefer that we optimize for speed. BTW, the lack of
clipping in the fg_drawmap() function was a problem, IMO. For one
thing, you couldn't clip fonts. Aggravating! Ted has added support for
that in 4.0, plus clipped fonts now work in FG/Fonts. We needed that!
>> 6. If the gif functions really use a static buffer, why not
dynamically allocate the memory instead?
Good point. I am not sure why Ted chose to use a static buffer
for the GIF function. Perhaps again it was a speed consideration.
If enough people think this is a problem, he will probably change
it.
>> 7. Support for useless video modes, but very little support for
tweaked VGA modes.
I thought we had a lot of support for the tweaked modes! What is
it you think is lacking?
BTW, I agree, support for Tandy and PC/Jr is pretty worthless any
more. That was put in years ago, back games were expected to
support those modes. It wouldn't be a good idea at this point to take
them out, because somebody, somewhere, is still supporting a program
that uses them.
>> 8. No virtual pages for some modes.
I think this has been fixed with the virtual buffer support in FG 4.0.
Virtual buffers are more flexible than virtual pages -- they can be any
size and work with any video mode.
BTW, I don't consider any of this a flame. I consider it an intelligent
discussion. Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback.
Diana
Rainer Deyke
: In article <3625sj$a...@deyke3.fc.hp.com>, rai...@deyke3.fc.hp.com (Rainer
: Deyke) writes:
: >>Why do people flame fastgraph? I can think of several reasons:
: >> 4. Some functions (palette? dithered rectangle?) work differently in
: different modes.
: Of course they do. Palettes in CGA are completely different from
: palettes in EGA and DACS in VGA. The dithered rectangles are
: somewhat hardware dependent.
Of course they are different, from the hardware's point of view.
However, one of the advantages of supporting multiple modes is that
this eliminates the need to specifically support any single mode.
I think it would be an improvement if you emulated CGA or at least
EGA palette routines for MCGA/VGA, and approximated VGA palettes
in EGA modes. As for dithered rectangles, I'm quite sure that the
EGA single color / blank approach could be used in other modes, if
not necessarily as efficiently.
: >> 7. Support for useless video modes, but very little support for
: tweaked VGA modes.
: I thought we had a lot of support for the tweaked modes! What is
: it you think is lacking?
Well, for one thing you only support four resolutions. Many people
prefer a width of 360, for example. I managed to get quite a lot (20?
40?) of tweaked VGA modes to run on my computer using a routine that
accepts both the width and the height (as opposed to a single mode
number) as arguments. Of course very few people actually use a lot of
these modes, but I think supporting them would still be a good idea,
for the sake of compatability.
Fastgraph
Deyke) writes:
>> I think it would be an improvement if you emulated CGA or at least
EGA palette routines for MCGA/VGA, and approximated VGA palettes
in EGA modes.
I think this works! At least it is supposed to. I know I have used it
before, back when I used to write games that supported all the
modes from Hercules through VGA.
I haven't done this in a long time, though. But we had some functions
that handled this, like fg_defcolor which sets a virtual color. Also,
there
are ways to remap the EGA colors to the VGA DACs. This is a
tech support thing, I have a help sheet on this I can fax you if you
need it.
>> Well, for one thing you only support four resolutions. Many
people prefer a width of 360, for example
Are any games using that 360 width? The reason we didn't
support it originally is because Ted read somewhere that mode
can burn out some monitors. All we need is to get sued for
writing code that breaks people's hardware! But I have not actually
heard of any monitors being burned up by using that mode. OTOH,
I don't know any games use that mode either. Do you?
If we can sort through the rumors and get some actual data on
this, we could probably support it. There is some demand for
it. What I would like to see is somebody say "we sold 50,000
copies of our game and nobody complained about any broken
monitors". So far all we have to go on is some vague warnings
that this is a potentially dangerous mode.
Diana
Tim Triemstra
|
| Tell me a game that isnt just a copy of another game? If you could
| come up with a new idea then you have it made!
| As it is, with the exception of very few games, they are just
| re-worked, nicer graphics, more baddies, better scrolling... but
| still just a copy.
Actually, to simply say "all games are copies" is really avoiding the
issue of how much of a copy Jazz is of Sonic. To say "Global Conquest"
is just another Risk clone is petty, but by your definition accurate.
Jazz has almost every gaming element except the shooting a direct copy
from Sonic. The shoes, the signs, the tubes, the "grabbing rings", the
swinging balls etc. They are far more than conceptual copies, they are
almost identical graphics and motions (in the case of the shoes and the
swinging balls especially.)
This isn't entirely a bad thing since we won't see a Sonic for the PC
most likely. But, it is unquestionably a higher degree of copying than
normally seen. In fact, I can't think of a single game that was a
greater copy so soon after the original release (not counting copies made
by the original company.)
--
Tim.
= Tim Triemstra = emp...@umcc.umich.edu =
== ==
= Wouldn't you like to be a pepper too? =
Ralph Barbagallo
Richard Maddocks <ma...@civy.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>As it is, with the exception of very few games, they are just re-worked,
>nicer graphics, more baddies, better scrolling... but still just a copy.
>Richard Maddocks
Well, I think you're making too big a generalization. There
is a difference between a blatant copy and an attempt to put a new spin
on an old genre. I haven't played Jazz the Jackrabbit, so I can't
comment on that.
Granted, there are VERY few releases for all platforms combined
each year that are genuinely good games, but not everything is a copy.
For instance: Many people would consider the Streetfighter series
a 'copy' of Data East's Karate Champ. This is not true. While it's
in the same genre, Capcom added enough in SFII to make it a bit
different from the originator. However, I'd call a game like
World Heroes a 'copy' of Streetfighter II since it really doesn't
add anything new.
There are some companies that do nothing but crank out copies.
Konami and Capcom's arcade releases come to mind. All Konami does
these days is release TMNT variants while Capcom steadily cranks out
the same old SFII and Final Fight clones.
There are companies that try something new. Atari Games
tried to break from the norm with Space Lords. Granted, it's not
totally original, but it's different. Namco also broke the mold
with Cybersled. Of course, there have been one on one vehicle challenges
(such as the duel mode in Steel Talons), but Cybersled had a decent
amount of good variations on a single theme.
It's like saying every action movie is a clone since it's in
the same genre. I'm not saying we don't have a lack of creative games
out there, but I wouldn't make a generalizatoin saying that every
game is a 'copy'.
--
Ralph A. Barbagallo III --- rbar...@cs.uml.edu --- Only AMIGA makes it
URL: http://www.uml.edu/~rbarbaga Possible...
R.I.P. Jay Miner: June 20th 1994 Father of the 2600, Atari 8bit, Amiga
-=-VAPS Member=-=-Classic Game Collector=-=-Broke Freelance Journalist=-
Peter Hinz
Yup, I agree, shareware is a good strategy. You write something, while doing
something else (like working), and if your product is good then you make some
money. If on the other hand your product is only on par with most of the
shareware software out there then you will slide into oblivion, never to be
heard of again.
Give the people who market your product some credit. It is a lot of hard work
to build up all contacts and to then distribute your software. I've heard
the some companies (no names here!) only give the programmer 10% of the money
a game makes. THAT IS A RIP OFF. You spend 6-9 months working you ass off
and you dont get much in return. I say 30% to 40% of the INCOME (not the
profit) the game generates should go to the programmer.
Any shareware distributers out there care to comment?
Till later
Peter
--
|Peter Hinz | SGI is fun. :)
|pe...@cs.uct.ac.za | Note: Windows is NOT a virus, Viruses do something!
|University of Cape Town| One in a million things happen nine times out of ten.
|South Africa | Mosaic: "http://www.cs.uct.ac.za/~peter/HOME.html"
Richard Maddocks
par...@cs.utexas.edu "Bryan King Parker" writes:
> Well, the reason I call it crap is because it is a blatant copy of another
> game down to almost every detail.
So is every other fucking game.
Tell me a game that isnt just a copy of another game? If you could come up with
a new idea then you have it made!
As it is, with the exception of very few games, they are just re-worked,
nicer graphics, more baddies, better scrolling... but still just a copy.
--
Richard Maddocks
Joel Finch
>
> Are any games using that 360 width? The reason we didn't
> support it originally is because Ted read somewhere that mode
> can burn out some monitors. All we need is to get sued for
> writing code that breaks people's hardware! But I have not actually
> heard of any monitors being burned up by using that mode. OTOH,
> I don't know any games use that mode either. Do you?
>
> If we can sort through the rumors and get some actual data on
> this, we could probably support it. There is some demand for
> it. What I would like to see is somebody say "we sold 50,000
> copies of our game and nobody complained about any broken
> monitors". So far all we have to go on is some vague warnings
> that this is a potentially dangerous mode.
>
> Diana
>
Hi Diana,
Pinball Fantasies has a "high resolution" mode which is 360x350.
Unfortunately, the artwork used is the same as for the 320x200
mode, so the aspect is a little off. Other than that, I have
heard no complaints or problems with the mode. Matt Pritchard's
ModeX demo also demonstrates all the easy-to-get VGA resolutions,
including the 360 width, and I haven't heard any complaints about
it, either.
I can't really see how a 360-wide mode could burn out a monitor,
since the VGA uses a 720-wide mode for text (to allow the "hidden"
9th column in the text cell), and 360 is only pixel-doubled 720.
If you can get sued for damage caused by a 360 pixel width, you
could probably get sued for any problems caused by ModeX, too,
since it's not provided explicitly by the BIOS on the card :)
Seeya, Joel :)
(jfi...@ozemail.com.au)
John Pallett-Plowright
>Actually, to simply say "all games are copies" is really avoiding the
>issue of how much of a copy Jazz is of Sonic. To say "Global Conquest"
>is just another Risk clone is petty, but by your definition accurate.
>Jazz has almost every gaming element except the shooting a direct copy
>from Sonic. The shoes, the signs, the tubes, the "grabbing rings", the
>swinging balls etc. They are far more than conceptual copies, they are
>almost identical graphics and motions (in the case of the shoes and the
>swinging balls especially.)
So?
Let's face it, folks, just about every book published, every game
written, evern movie put out can be referenced to something previous.
True, Jazz is almost identical to the Sega game Sonic. Without wanting
to sound overly offensive, let me ask you to ask yourselves a question:
Were you to actually program an engine as decent as Jazz's, how would
YOU approach making the game that goes with it?
1) Take a look at what's out there for similar engines and do your
damndest to copy the parts that work. This is called learning
by experience, and it's what makes society run at the high
technological level that it's at - your nice CLONE is a copy of
somebody else's computer, too.
2) Try to write everything based upon nothing at all, reinvent the
wheel, etc. etc. Well, you get credit for trying to do it,
but let's face it. Virtually every game written is improved
upon in future games; if you DON'T look at the pros and cons
of previous games and take the good, chuck the bad, you are
not going to get a great game.
3) Try to AVOID copying the good parts out of Sonic. Great idea. Truly.
Ok, so I'm long winded, but the bottom line is as follows: Anything you
see in a game that reminds you of other games you've played, no matter
how blatent, is just an attempt to bring you the best. I personally
like Jazz, hate Sonic; I can see crappy things Sonic does that Jazz doesn't
do (Gee, perhaps they didn't copy the stuff that was awful!).
People will be saying "This is a Wolfenstein clone", "This is a Doom clone",
"This is a Sonic Clone", "This is a god-knows-what's-next clone" for as
long as games are written; Personally, I'm just going to shut up and
enjoy them.
John
PS: In my humble experience on the net, it's usually jealousy that founds
such statements, or plain power hunger. There's enough of that
in other newsgroups, how about we keep this one on at least a BIT
of a professional level, eh?
<Panting, wiping sweat off forehead, simmering down a little...>
Please?
Tim Triemstra
| Unfortunately, the artwork used is the same as for the 320x200
| mode, so the aspect is a little off. Other than that, I have
| heard no complaints or problems with the mode. Matt Pritchard's
| ModeX demo also demonstrates all the easy-to-get VGA resolutions,
| including the 360 width, and I haven't heard any complaints about
| it, either.
Well, back to the Jazz thing in a related story...
I brought a copy of the shareware version of Jazz to a friend's house
today and the video wouldn't work right! It was fine durring all the
"in-between" stages like the starfield effect and such, but during the
"About to enter zone" statement and during the actual game the screen
virtically scrolled. Kinda like watching a TV station that isn't quite
in. The game is of course unplayable like this. the bunny jumps off the
top and comes out the bottom, not quite right :)
I'm going to forward this to Epic today and see what they say. He's
running a good machine aside from the monitor. It's a 486-66 with a
Stealth 24 with the WD chip. The monitor is an old IBM 12" (8513 I
believe) which works fine with DOOM so I assume that ModeX in general
isn't a problem. I'll tell ya what I find out.
Phil Carlisle
>running a good machine aside from the monitor. It's a 486-66 with a
>Stealth 24 with the WD chip. The monitor is an old IBM 12" (8513 I
>believe) which works fine with DOOM so I assume that ModeX in general
>isn't a problem. I'll tell ya what I find out.
>
Probably the 60hz refresh, arjan used it.. it does the same on my tft screen,
I asked arjan a while ago, and he said they were thinking of putting out an
overall bug fix release if there was enough demand, otherwise, I might just
hack his mode setting routines and see if I cant get it working right...
--
Phil. (aka zoombapup // CodeX)
/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Phil Carlisle - p...@espr.demon.co.uk Hull,England...... |
| aka zoombapup // codex espr development, third eye productions... |
\----------------------------------------------------------------------/
A.R. Brussee
>Probably the 60hz refresh, arjan used it.. it does the same on my tft screen,
>I asked arjan a while ago, and he said they were thinking of putting out an
there's a problem with some S3 cards which don't _get_ scrolling. You need
some kind of software utility from your vidcard manufacturer to get the card
working in a 100% VGA compatible mode. It also happens in normal 70 Hz mode.
I've finished a new EXE which has a /VGA commandline switch which forces the
game into 70Hz mode. Where DOOM runs, Jazz will run with this switch,
arjan
Tim Triemstra
Q>some kind of software utility from your vidcard manufacturer to get the
card
Q>working in a 100% VGA compatible mode. It also happens in normal 70 Hz
mode.
Q>
Q>I've finished a new EXE which has a /VGA commandline switch which
forces the
Q>game into 70Hz mode. Where DOOM runs, Jazz will run with this switch,
Q>
Q>arjan
Arjan, my friend got hold of a second 8513 (IBM 12" VGA) monitor that
looked exactly the same as the one that had the vertical hold problem -
and this monitor worked! We couldn't really _use_ it because it's color
was completely f*'d (not a Jazz problem) but for some reason only that
mode on that one monitor gave us that problem. BTW: He wasn't using an
S3 based card, its a Stealth 24X (which uses the WD 90C31 or something
like that.) Hope that helps, and I'll look to see if your new .EXE may
solve the problem.