Making of Mahjong Playing Cards Revisited...
Nicholas Cheung
number) deck of playing cards (as I posted it on the same subject last
year), purely intended for Mahjong players (especially those who play
NMJL or W-P rules)
That said, I decided to give US Playing Card company a call, and found
out the harsh truth in order to make these kinds of cards.
They said that a 5,000 deck minimum is required for non-standard decks
of Playing cards (non 52-card decks that is). That said, the
specifications (in condensed form) should be:
Back is some Mahjong-related theme.
the cards will be in their traditional mahjong appearance (like the 5
bamboo card will always have one red bamboo in the middle)
Also, the compositions of the intended deck will be as follows:
4x 1 to 9 bamboo (36), 4x 1 to 9 character (36), 4x 1 to 9 dot (36) =
108
4x White, Green and Red Dragons (12), 4x East, South, West and North
Winds (16) = 28
Basic Set = 136
Additional Cards:
(Ch + W) Plum, Orchid, Chrysanthemum, Bamboo = 4
(Ch + W) Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter = 4
(Singaporean) Cat, Rat, Old Man, Bag of Gold, Chicken, Worm, Fisherman
and Fish = 8
(Jp) 2x each of Red Five Bamboos, Red Five Characters and Red Five Dots
= 6
(Western) 8 Jokers = 8
(Vietnamese) 4 Red Jokers and 4 Green Jokers = 8
(All) 8 blanks = 8
Additional Cards total = 46
Total cards in proposed deck = 182 (pre Tom's original suggestion)
Now, the problem is finding a playing card company willing to make this
kind of set with the particular back we need.
This is the foundation. Assuming if this does get off, it all goes down
to: Will this be a hit or a bust with the Mahjong community? I don't
think rules will need to be typed, but for those who want to join AMJA
or the like, perhaps something could be done in respect to that.
Nick
Judy Gunnery
before. The NMJL sells a set of cards for $13.50 for "an exact duplication
of a set of tiles". Here is the website:
http://www.nationalmahjonggleague.org/store/merchandise.html (look in third
column, click on first item...)
I have been considering this for myself to use when traveling.
Judy
"Nicholas Cheung" <gold...@fastdial.net> wrote in message
news:3B5531FC...@fastdial.net...
Tom Sloper
>I decided to revisit the vision of a 152-card (or slightly higher
number) deck of playing cards (as I posted it on the same subject last
year),
Hmm. Decks of cards. I remember talking about a universal tile set, and I
have made one for myself. You can see it at
http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/universal.htm.
It wouldn't be hard to make a set of images one could use to print out on
heavy paper, then one could cut and make one's own cards. Kind of like the
files at http://www.geocities.com/rkcpek/mjcards1.zip and
http://www.geocities.com/rkcpek/mjcards2.zip (as listed in FAQ 4:
http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/mjfaq04.txt)... only prettier.
>purely intended for Mahjong players (especially those who play
>NMJL or W-P rules)
Well, as Judy Gunnery replied, the NMJL already makes 152-kard decks. They
call them "kards," to differentiate them from "the card," which is a list of
hands. See FAQ 7i, "Cards... And Kards."
http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/cards.htm. Those kards do not have the
special Vietnamese, Japanese, or Singaporean tiles listed below.
>That said, I decided to give US Playing Card company a call, and found
>out the harsh truth in order to make these kinds of cards.
Wow! Great research job, Nick! (^_^) That's great that you found someone
so willing to discuss fresh ideas with outsiders.
>They said that a 5,000 deck minimum is required for non-standard decks
>of Playing cards (non 52-card decks that is).
The 5,000-deck minimum is to keep the print run costs at a reasonable
minimum.
>Also, the compositions of the intended deck will be as follows:
>4x 1 to 9 bamboo (36), 4x 1 to 9 character (36), 4x 1 to 9 dot (36) =
>108
>4x White, Green and Red Dragons (12), 4x East, South, West and North
>Winds (16) = 28
>
>Basic Set = 136
>
>Additional Cards:
>(Ch + W) Plum, Orchid, Chrysanthemum, Bamboo = 4
>(Ch + W) Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter = 4
>(Singaporean) Cat, Rat, Old Man, Bag of Gold, Chicken, Worm, Fisherman
>and Fish = 8
>(Jp) 2x each of Red Five Bamboos, Red Five Characters and Red Five Dots
>= 6
>(Western) 8 Jokers = 8
>(Vietnamese) 4 Red Jokers and 4 Green Jokers = 8
>(All) 8 blanks = 8
>
>Additional Cards total = 46
>
>Total cards in proposed deck = 182 (pre Tom's original suggestion)
I had forgotten about the 2 extra red fives. The universal set that I made
has the standard four red fives (two five dots, one five crak, one five
bam). And my universal set has four Chinese jokers (for those who don't
want to look at English writing on their mah-jongg sets). And only 4
blanks. For a total of 180 (not 182).
One thing even my universal set might not have enough of is flowers. It may
be that there is some form of mah-jongg that requires more than 16
flowers... mmm, then again, maybe not.
I think another consideration needs to be the size of the kards. Take a
look at the narrow Sparrow kards in FAQ 7i. These smaller kards fit more
neatly into a small box than standard size cards would. It has often been
discussed on the playing-cards newsgroup (or was it the game design
newsgroup) that one could print cards on business-card stock.
Business-card-size kards would be nice, methinks.
>Now, the problem is finding a playing card company willing to make this
>kind of set with the particular back we need.
Well, there are probably several printing companies that could do it too
(information on such companies has been mentioned on the newsgroups several
times; I have it archived here somewhere). Then the problem would be
distributing it. And warehousing the run.
>This is the foundation. Assuming if this does get off, it all goes down
>to: Will this be a hit or a bust with the Mahjong community? I don't
>think rules will need to be typed, but for those who want to join AMJA
>or the like, perhaps something could be done in respect to that.
American-style 152-kard decks are already covered. Making a "universal" deck
would be a nice item for those of us on this newsgroup who enjoy exploring
different kinds of mah-jongg, but most players are going to just stick with
their own kind of mah-jongg, so wouldn't be interested in paying money for a
set (or deck) that they wouldn't use much. That hasn't stopped me from
thinking about it... but then I'm interested in all kinds of mah-jongg.
Cheers,
Tom
Tom Sloper
http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq.html
Dick Dillehunt
How would the minimums and/or costs differ if you used multiple standard
decks with the same backs? You could create 4 standard decks (208 cards)
and have the extra cards represent options for many/most of the different
variations. Each of the decks should have a unique card on the top face to
ease identification. You would have to manually collate the 4 decks into a
master set, then shrink wrap or use another package/box for storage. Not a
perfect solution, but it should be much easier and cheaper than trying to
produce a unique single deck set.
Just my $.02
Dick
Alan Kwan
printing company about printing those special cards?
"Live life with Heart." - Alan Kwan / ta...@notmenetvigator.com
http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot (hard-core video game reviews)
Tarot Games Hong Kong: http://home.netvigator.com/~tarot/com
(please remove anti-spam section "notme" from mailing address)
Glenn Kuntz
Alan Kwan <ta...@notmenetvigator.com> wrote in message
news:3b5715f4...@news.netvigator.com...
> Aren't there paper mahjong cards in print? What about asking the
> printing company about printing those special cards?
I've seen & played with them. Might only be available in the East though.
I would think they might be available at import shops, BTICBW.
Nicholas Cheung
Tom Sloper wrote:
>
{snip}
>
> I had forgotten about the 2 extra red fives. The universal set that I made
> has the standard four red fives (two five dots, one five crak, one five
> bam). And my universal set has four Chinese jokers (for those who don't
> want to look at English writing on their mah-jongg sets). And only 4
> blanks. For a total of 180 (not 182).
I will address that with eight Chinese Jokers, for a total of 190 tiles.
I am unsure if there are players playing Western or NMJL that use
Chinese Jokers, so let's accomodate them with these Chinese Jokers.
>
> One thing even my universal set might not have enough of is flowers. It may
> be that there is some form of mah-jongg that requires more than 16
> flowers... mmm, then again, maybe not.
>
Not sure if I have ever heard of a variation that requires more than 16
flowers...
> I think another consideration needs to be the size of the kards. Take a
> look at the narrow Sparrow kards in FAQ 7i. These smaller kards fit more
> neatly into a small box than standard size cards would. It has often been
> discussed on the playing-cards newsgroup (or was it the game design
> newsgroup) that one could print cards on business-card stock.
> Business-card-size kards would be nice, methinks.
>
My intention was to produce these cards like regular-sized playing
cards, and yes this assumes that many people can hold 14 cards in their
hand.
Not sure about business-card-sized kards, but I am thinking about if
anyone can read the cards through business-card stock.
{snip}
> American-style 152-kard decks are already covered. Making a "universal" deck
> would be a nice item for those of us on this newsgroup who enjoy exploring
> different kinds of mah-jongg, but most players are going to just stick with
> their own kind of mah-jongg, so wouldn't be interested in paying money for a
> set (or deck) that they wouldn't use much. That hasn't stopped me from
> thinking about it... but then I'm interested in all kinds of mah-jongg.
>
This I did not realize, maybe you did post it a while ago.
But yes, a universal deck, probably limiting the use of English and
Arabic Numerals unless where necessary. Admittedly, it may be unfeasible
(financially to say the least!) to produce localized versions, so if
people don't want to play using certain cards (like red fives for
non-Japanese players) they can always leave them out of the deck.
Nicholas Cheung
One of my original plans was a 208-card deck with all these extras
cards covered, but I am wondering if I can order blank decks with blank
backs. Because if standard decks were used as the order, I can reduce
the minimum order to 500 decks instead of 5000, and may be cheaper that
way.
That said, a standard deck would be 56 cards (52 cards + jokers +
advertising cards), so four such decks would be 224 cards, with the 34
extra cards perhaps unused(?)
In resopect to blank cards, I found four totally blank cards in my
Bicycle 2-pack Pinochle, so I think there is a possibility to ordering
500 decks of totally blank cards.
But the collating of 190 (or 208, 224) cards into one master deck for
shrink wrapping and manufacture info a box of their own provides a
seperate challenge in and itself.
Nick
Richard Heli
Kwan) wrote:
>Aren't there paper mahjong cards in print? What about asking the
>printing company about printing those special cards?
A set of Mah Jongg cards were printed and packaged with the book
The Fortune Teller's Mah Jongg : The Ancient Game As a Modern Oracle
by Derek Walters
Apparently used versions are available at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0670856401/thedetectandthetA/
Dick Dillehunt
reference you made. Besides, the extra cards could be used to include
various rule sets and options, to make your set as all inclusive as
possible.
I assumed that you had addressed packaging that would hold your desired
number of cards, so I did not consider it an extra item. I would think you
could place four cartons filled with cellophane wrapped decks next to each
other, then pick one deck from each, to form a set and place it in your
desired package.
If all you want is blank cards, they are sold in decks and/or individual
cards in shops that cater to magicians. http://www.magictricks.com/ has
them with or without printing on the either side for $8.95 per deck.
Printing on them after they have been "finished" might present another
problem, but the price is certainly right to experiment.
Dick
"Nicholas Cheung" <gold...@fastdial.net> wrote in message
news:3B572670...@fastdial.net...
Tom Sloper
>> Aren't there paper mahjong cards in print? What about asking the
>> printing company about printing those special cards?
Glenn wrote
>I've seen & played with them. Might only be available in the East though.
Not at all. See FAQ 7i, "Mah-Jongg Cards... and Kards"
(http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/cards.htm)
joseplluis pibernat
Tom Sloper <tom...@sloperama.com> escribió en el mensaje de noticias
w6I57.23927$M9.80...@typhoon.we.rr.com...
> Alan Kwan <ta...@notmenetvigator.com> wrote
>
> >> Aren't there paper mahjong cards in print? What about asking the
> >> printing company about printing those special cards?
>
> Glenn wrote
>
> >I've seen & played with them. Might only be available in the East
though.
>
> Not at all. See FAQ 7i, "Mah-Jongg Cards... and Kards"
> (http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/cards.htm)
You can try also http://www.trigono.com/Tarocchi/ita/meneghello/mah-jong.htm
joseplluis pibernat
Glenn Kuntz
Tom Sloper <tom...@sloperama.com> wrote in message
news:w6I57.23927$M9.80...@typhoon.we.rr.com...
> Alan Kwan <ta...@notmenetvigator.com> wrote
>
> >> Aren't there paper mahjong cards in print? What about asking the
> >> printing company about printing those special cards?
>
> Glenn wrote
>
> >I've seen & played with them. Might only be available in the East
though.
>
> Not at all. See FAQ 7i, "Mah-Jongg Cards... and Kards"
> (http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/cards.htm)
Thanks. The only ones I've seen had been brought back from Hong Kong by
visitors & recent immigrants. Might also be worth checking import shops (if
I didn't mention that previously.)
Tom Sloper
>You can try also
http://www.trigono.com/Tarocchi/ita/meneghello/mah-jong.htm
Thanks, joseplluis. The cards are beautiful, and I'm tempted to order a
deck. The site seems to say that mah-jongg originated in the year 900 (but
it's unclear whether that's AD or BC), which makes me wonder what his source
of information is. The site links to Jim May's page, where a more accurate
history is given.
Anyway, I added the URL to the kards FAQ
(http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq/cards.htm).
Tom
necrotron
place.
Must've been the easy availability of ivory in the early 20th century...
Perhaps someone should inquire to Wizards of the Coast...
or perhaps Carta Mundi directly?
Seems to me they would be experts at small print run stuff ala the alpha
Magic cards.
Besides, since the CCG market has had its massive implosion, there have to
be card manufacturers with time and cardstock on their hands...
As Mahjong has had a resurgence, and there is no copyright to the game as it
is more than 100 years old, it seems to me it would be a natural thing to do
to make one.
Necrotron
(who doesn't speak Swedish, but may call Carta-Mundi anyway)
(or was that Finnish... ah hell!)
Richard Heli
<necrotr...@home.net> wrote:
>I always wondered why it wasn't americanized as a card game in the first
>place.
It has been. It's called Mhing.
Dubb
news:LR_57.12634$gj1.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
As far as I know, we don't have any company named Carta Mundi here in
Sweden. I think you mean the one in Belgia, right?
Dubb
Tom Sloper
>I always wondered why it wasn't americanized as a card game in the first
>place.
The tiles are more fun.
>Must've been the easy availability of ivory in the early 20th century...
Very few ivory sets were made. Most sets were made of cow bone. See
Mah-JOngg FAQ 7c, What's It Made Of?
(http://www.sloperama.com/majexchange/id.htm).
>As Mahjong has had a resurgence, and there is no copyright to the game as
it
>is more than 100 years old, it seems to me it would be a natural thing to
do
>to make one.
Yeah, except most folks would rather play mah-jongg with tiles rather than
cards.
Tom Sloper
Author of the mah-jongg FAQs
http://www.sloperama.com/mjfaq.html