Point-trick game: Double King Pied

[Jake Patterson]

My family traditionally plays a point-trick game called Double King Pied (not
sure of spelling of "Pied".) The game was played by my grand parrents in
Woodstock, Vermont. I was wondering if anyone has heard of it.

The game is played by four players in fixed teams of two. It is played with
a 53 card deck consisting of the normal cards plus one Joker.

The Deal:

Each player is dealt twelve cards, with the remaining five going to the center
of the table.

Bidding and Declaring trump:

Bidding is clockwise starting from the person after the dealer, each player
bids the number of points that they think they can take (from 1 to 100). They
can also opt to pass. Bidding continues clockwise amoung the players who have
not passed until three players have passed. The winning bidder takes the five
cards from the center of the table and then declares the trump suit. The set
of cards that are in-trump include the cards of the trump suit, plus the
opposite suit king, nine, and five, plus the Joker.

Discard:

Each player then discards down to six cards, at this stage the winning bidder
has the oppurtunity to ask their partner if they can take a number of (in
trump) cards that would otherwise be discarded. For example, if the winning
bidder has nine cards that are in trump, they might say to their partner:
"Can you take three cards?" Their partner would likely say "Yes". Since
there are fewer cards that are "in trump" then held by players after discard,
one or more player will hold some cards that are out of trump, but I will get
to that later.

Play:

Six tricks are then played, with the winning bidder leading the first trick.
Supposing the trump suit is Spades, the order of power, and point values,
are as follows:

Ace of Spades 1 point
King of Spades 25 points
King of Clubs 25 points
Queen of Spades
Jack of Spades
Ten of Spades
Nine of Spades 10 points
Nine of Clubs 10 points
Eight of Spades
Seven of Spades
Six of Spades
Five of Spades 5 points
Five of Clubs 5 points
Four of Spades
Three of Spades
Two of Spades 1 point
Joker 18 points

The most powerfull card played in a trick takes the trick, and captures the
three other cards played in that trick. Therefore, the player who holds the
Joker (which is the least powerfull card, but worth lots of points) has the
responsibility to play it when they are sure that their partner's card will
take that trick, lest its points be captured by one of their opponents.

Each trick after the first is lead by the player who took the last trick.
That player can "throw off" by playing an out-of-trump card, in order to get
rid of any such cards that they have (it may be desireable to save an in-trump
card for a later trick.) If a player throws off, the next player may throw
off as well. Out-of-trump cards have no power and are worth no points. If a
player has no more in-trump cards, then they are "out" and they simply put
their cards down, the remaining three players continue to play tricks as
normal.

Scoring:

The points are added up and if the team that won the bidding has captured
enough points to cover their bid, then they get the number of points that they
captured. Otherwise, they go back by the difference. The other team gets the
number of points that they captured. Play continues until one team gets to
500 points.

I would be interested to hear if anyone else has any experience with this
game.

--
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[John McLeod]

Jake Patterson <jpat...@gnu.uvm.edu> wrote:
>My family traditionally plays a point-trick game called Double King Pied (not
>sure of spelling of "Pied".)

It's a variation of Pedro. I have come across (single) King Pede, but
not this game. Evidently yours is called double because the king or the
same colour as the trump suit is an extra scoring trump - in normal King
Pede there is only one trump king.

>The game was played by my grand parrents in
>Woodstock, Vermont. I was wondering if anyone has heard of it.

You may like to look at http://www.pagat.com/allfours/pedro.html which
has several related games but not this exact one. It is perhaps
interesting that the similar games 63 and 83 are played in Maine, which
is not all that far away.

>Discard:
>
>Each player then discards down to six cards, at this stage the winning bidder
>has the oppurtunity to ask their partner if they can take a number of (in
>trump) cards that would otherwise be discarded. For example, if the winning
>bidder has nine cards that are in trump, they might say to their partner:
>"Can you take three cards?" Their partner would likely say "Yes". Since
>there are fewer cards that are "in trump" then held by players after discard,
>one or more player will hold some cards that are out of trump, but I will get
>to that later.

You do not say this, but I would guess that perhaps it is illegal to
discard a scoring trump card. Otherwise an opponent of the bidder could
easily save the joker by discarding it.

>Each trick after the first is lead by the player who took the last trick.
>That player can "throw off" by playing an out-of-trump card, in order to get
>rid of any such cards that they have (it may be desireable to save an in-trump
>card for a later trick.) If a player throws off, the next player may throw
>off as well.

Suppose that the first player throws off and the second player plays a
(high) trump which the third player cannot beat. Is the third player now
allowed to throw off or must he also play (waste) a trump?

>The points are added up and if the team that won the bidding has captured
>enough points to cover their bid, then they get the number of points that they
>captured. Otherwise, they go back by the difference. The other team gets the
>number of points that they captured.

Presumably they get these points irrespective of whether the bidding
team wins or not?

>Play continues until one team gets to
>500 points.

- and if both teams reach 500 points in the same deal?

>I would be interested to hear if anyone else has any experience with this
>game.

No - but some knowledge of related games. Thanks very much for posting
the rules.
--
John McLeod For information on card games visit
jo...@pagat.demon.co.uk http://www.pagat.com/

[Jake Patterson]

> You may like to look at http://www.pagat.com/allfours/pedro.html which
> has several related games but not this exact one. It is perhaps
> interesting that the similar games 63 and 83 are played in Maine, which
> is not all that far away.

Thanks for your reply. I had found links to the pagat site in my searches
on Google, but the site was down when I tried to go to it. I probably
should have checked Google's cached copies...

> You do not say this, but I would guess that perhaps it is illegal to
> discard a scoring trump card. Otherwise an opponent of the bidder could
> easily save the joker by discarding it.

When I have played, cards were discarded face up, and the same for when you
are "out" after holding no trumps in your hand. I would assume, but I have
not asked, that it would be illegal to throw away scorring trumps in either
situation.

> Suppose that the first player throws off and the second player plays a
> (high) trump which the third player cannot beat. Is the third player now
> allowed to throw off or must he also play (waste) a trump?

I have only played it myself a few times, but I think they must waste a trump
in this situation.

> Presumably they get these points irrespective of whether the bidding
> team wins or not?

I think so, but I was not the one keeping score... I will ask and post a
clarification.

This is one of those situations that I wish I had gotten into this tradition
at an earlier age, I think my mother tried to push this on me too soon (I
was 4 or 5 at the time.) This turned me off on it for a while, I am just now
getting into it (at 28)

I may have to write a computer version...

I do have few corrections to my previous post right now... The trump nines
are actually worth nine points each instead of ten, and the trump Jack and
trump Ten are each worth one point. I was working from memory there. This
leaves the trump Queen, Eight, Seven, Six, Four and Three as non-scoring. I
recall that it is also possible to bid a 100 double, for example if you hold
the Ace, Queen, Jack, Ten, and both Kings of trump. I am pretty sure that a
team that fails to make their bid actually goes back by the bid amount and
not by the difference, and I think that a failed bid of 100 double results in
that team losing 100 and not 200, but I will double check that (and the other
details.)

One more thing... minimum bid was 1 point, so I would think it would be
possible for partners to exchange information encoded in the bid amounts. I
will inquire as to the legality of that technique. Of course that would be
pretty hard to stop people from doing if they were so inclined.

--
Yet another Yet another Yet another Yet another Yet another
lame (TM) lame (TM) lame (TM) lame (TM) lame (TM) l
3D .sig! 3D .sig! 3D .sig! 3D .sig! 3D .sig! 3D .sig
-This .sig and the post preceding it brought to you by: jpat...@zoo.uvm.edu-

[crl0...@gmail.com]

This is so very exciting to find. My parents and aunt & uncle used to play this.. (my dad would have been 90 this year). I have looked forever for these rules and couldn't find them. I was beginning to think they made it up, however, my dad & aunt were from midstate Vermont.. so, I guess there is the connections!!

Thanks for posting! Now, I can teach my children and keep the game going!

[John McLeod]

On 28/10/2014 12:02, crl0...@gmail.com wrote:
>> My family traditionally plays a point-trick game called Double King
>> Pied (not sure of spelling of "Pied".) The game was played by my
>> grand parrents in Woodstock, Vermont. I was wondering if anyone
>> has heard of it.

'Pied' is normally spelled 'Pede'. This is a variant of King Pede, which
in books is usually called King Pedro, itself a variant of Pedro.

I have published rules of a couple of versions of King Pede at
http://www.pagat.com/allfours/pedro.html#king and the games 63 and 83
are also related. But this version with the off-suit kings and nines
also counting for a total of 100 is new to me. Thank you for posting it.

--
John McLeod For information on card games visit

jo...@pagat.com http://www.pagat.com/

[jpdene...@gmail.com]

Jake,
I personally appreciate your dialog on double king pede. I played it in Bridgewater, VT a few nights in December 1963. I forgot all the rules but remembered the name. Thanks to Google and you I can now teach this to my family. Thanks.
John

[danielelwi...@gmail.com]

Dan Mead - My grandparents and parents - residents of Rutland County, Vt. and Washington County, NY played this game a quite often. It resulted in many rousing tricks, and not a few heated arguments. My grandfather, Henri LaRose (a transplanted Quebecois) was especially fond of it.

[agibb...@gmail.com]

Grew up playing this game and LOVE it. Learned as a kid also in vt

[dragon...@gmail.com]

I learned this game when I lived in Vermont in the 80's. Been years since I've played, wish I knew others that played too, to refresh my memory!

[crl0...@gmail.com]

question on the cards that are to be discarded when you weed out all but six.. can the joker or the 9 or 5 of opposite suit be discarded or are they considered trump and have to be kept or disclosed that they are being discarded?

[pathof...@gmail.com]

My grandfather, uncle, father and I used to play this game in Vermont - specifically Lincoln. And whenever I ask anyone about this game, they always learned it in Vermont. Have not played in years. And I better hurry up as I am as old as my grandfather now!

Dolly Anagnostis
Saco, Maine
dollya...@icloud.com

[schneide...@gmail.com]

My family played a game we called "Pied"(not sure of spelling). My Dad would call it "24 for 48" because that was the highest bid you could make if you thought you and your partner could take all the tricks and win 48 points. They also called it "High-Low-Jack and Game".

[schneide...@gmail.com]

They would play in pairs or two teams of three, or if enough of the family had gathered, they would have 2 tables of 4. They would play "men vs.women", and occasionally a family member would have to play as a member of the opposite sex. I think my grandparents learned the game in Vermont, as they lived in New Hampshire, but had friends in VT.

[terryi...@gmail.com]

Hi, All!
My grandparents learned this game from their landlord in the 1920's or early 30's in Crown Point, NY.
I played for years with my mother, aunts and uncles. I am now teaching my adult children how to play.
They called it "King Peed" and I'm not sure of the spelling, either.
HERE IS HOW I WAS TAUGHT THIS GAME:

KING PEID

Power rank from most to least:
Trump Opposite Points
(same color)
Ace 1

King King 25 each

Queen -

Jack Jack 1 (trump only)

10 1 (trump only)

9 9 9 each
8 -
7 -
6 -

5 5 5 each

4 -
3 -

2 1 point

Joker 18 points

Total points possible: 100 per hand.
Play to 500.

DIRECTIONS

Object of the game: to win tricks containing cards with points. Odds of winning are increased by being highest bidder (providing you have enough winning cards to take enough tricks).
Deal: 9 cards to 4 players; then four “kitty” cards to each, which can not be seen until after bidding. Dealer gets 5 in the kitty. (53 cards total)
After each player looks at their 9 cards, “airplane bidding” starts with the first person after the dealer until one person wins the bid. Then the kitty cards may be added to each player’s hand. High bidder then names the suit to be trump for the hand. Ace has highest rank (to take a trick), Joker has none. Joker can only “take” itself if no trump is led and then no trump played by all during that trick.
Trump MUST be played on the first trick, led out by the highest bidder. When trump is led, players must play trump if they have it.
Players keep 6 cards and discard the rest before play begins. Should a player have more than 6 trump cards, the extra cards can be passed to their partner. Should the partner also have more than 6 cards, their lowest non-point cards should be discarded. Bid winner passes to partner first. (Partners should not pass back and forth – only one passing per hand.) Whoever takes the trick leads out next.
END
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

On Monday, December 4, 2000 at 9:23:35 PM UTC-5, Jake Patterson wrote:

[kimtat...@gmail.com]

My parents used to come to my house and play! My mom passed about two years ago and now we don’t play 😢

[kimtat...@gmail.com]

My mom and dad taught my husband and I we loved playing with them.

[Timothy Perron]

On Monday, December 4, 2000 at 9:23:35 PM UTC-5, Jake Patterson wrote:

I'm now 36, but my Me'mere (grandma) taught me how to play this game when I was in high school. But this was not a game we played only with a few people. Rather, my Me'mere used to play every week with a group (and I would often join in) of about 20-30 people in Ferrisburgh, VT. She lived in Vergennes, VT just adjacent to Ferrisburgh. So it was quite well-known in that area, at least among that generation. Besides me and my younger brother, there was no one there under the age of 70. And I never knew anyone in my generation or my parents' generation who knew or even heard of the game so unfortunately it looks like it is passing away into history at least in that area of VT. But I absolutely love the game, and so I hope it can find a following through which it can continue!

[Steven Needham]

Myself and my siblings ( 6 of us ) were taught by our parents some 40+ years ago in Warren County in upstate NY ( mom was from the Burlington area of Vermont ). They called it Double King Pede ( pede pronounced like : Timmy peed his pants) I've tweaked Jake Patterson's post to convey the version my parents learned and taught to us, yet another variation to add to the list, LOL.

The game is played by four players in fixed teams of two. It is played with

a 52 card deck consisting of the normal cards, no Jokers.

The Deal:

Each player is dealt 9 cards,starting to the left of the dealer clockwise 3 at a time until all have 9, with the remaining 16 going face down by the dealer

Bidding and Declaring trump:

Bidding is clockwise starting from the person after the dealer, each player

bids the number of points that they think they can take (from 1 to 82) minumum bid is 30, with the dealer bidding last, only 1 bid per person.
If you can't outbid the highest bidder,you have to pass.If 3 passes, the dealer must take the bid for 30. The winning bidder declares the trump suit. The set

of cards that are in-trump include the cards of the trump suit, plus the

opposite suit of the same color king, nine, and five.

Discard:

Each player, other than the dealer,then discards down to no higher than six cards, at this stage the winning bidder

has the oppurtunity to ask their partner if they can take a number of (in
trump) cards that would otherwise be discarded. For example, if the winning
bidder has nine cards that are in trump, they might say to their partner:
"Can you take three cards?" Their partner would likely say "Yes". Since

there are fewer cards that are "in trump" then held by players after discard.If any of the other players have more than 6 trump cards they must discard the extra cards and declare them.
The dealer then hands out make up cards to the other 3 players, if needed,clockwise till they all have 6 cards total.The dealer gets to pick out 6 cards from what's left in the deck
plus their 9 cards they used to bid on.If the dealer has to throw away any extra "trump cards" they must show what cards they are to the other 3 players and then
add them to the discard pile face down.The only exception is if the dealer having won the bid, and has the trump suit "2 card" they are allowed to keep it as a seventh card and declare it by
showing to the other 3 players, and them placing it face down by itself in that players point pile.

Play:

Six tricks are then played, with the winning bidder leading the first trick, and they must lead off with trump on the 1st trick.

Supposing the trump suit is Spades, the order of power, and point values,
are as follows:

Ace of Spades 1 point
King of Spades 25 points
King of Clubs 25 points
Queen of Spades

Jack of Spades 1 point
Ten of Spades 1 point
Nine of Spades 9 points
Nine of Clubs 9 points

Eight of Spades
Seven of Spades
Six of Spades
Five of Spades 5 points
Five of Clubs 5 points
Four of Spades
Three of Spades
Two of Spades 1 point

The most powerful card played in a trick takes the trick, and captures the

three other cards played in that trick.

Each trick after the first is led by the player who took the last trick.

That player can "throw off" by playing an out-of-trump card, in order to get
rid of any such cards that they have (it may be desireable to save an in-trump

card for a later trick.) If a player throws off, the other 3 may throw
off as well, but only in the led suit (no 5,9,or King of the same color off suit), or can throw trump.
Out-of-trump cards have no power (only if all 4 players "throw off" then the player with the highest off card wins that trick) and are worth no points. If a
player has no more in-trump cards,and the trick led with trump, then they are "out" and they simply put

their cards down, the remaining three players continue to play tricks as

normal. It is not allowed to discard or throw away any trump cards, especially if your partner is the dealer during the discard part. This is cheating.

Scoring:

The points are added up and if the team that won the bidding has captured
enough points to cover their bid, then they get the number of points that they

captured. Otherwise, they go back by the bid. The other team gets the

number of points that they captured. Play continues until one team gets to

500 points. In the event both teams score over 500 in the last trick, the team that took the bid wins.

[loyed neuer]

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