Black Maria
Mark Bassett
I am enjoying the current discussion on Hearts, one of the first
card games I learnt to play was "Black Maria", a (UK only?) version of
Hearts.
In Black Maria the penalty cards are:
all the Hearts - 1 point each
Queen of Spades - 13 points
King of Spades - 10 points
Ace of Spades - 7 points
At the start of the game you pass three cards to the right, and there's
no "shooting for the moon".
It's a very good card game for three ( leave out the Two of Clubs );
mu question is, would anyone who has played both games care to comment
on their respective merits ?
Regards,
Mark
Chris Lawson
: I am enjoying the current discussion on Hearts, one of the first
: card games I learnt to play was "Black Maria", a (UK only?) version of
: Hearts.
Black Maria was one of the first card games I started to play (back in the
6th form). Due to this I may well be somewhat biased but I do believe it is
one of the best Hearts variations and also one of the best three player
card games around (or at least in my top six favorite games).
: In Black Maria the penalty cards are:
: all the Hearts - 1 point each
: Queen of Spades - 13 points
: King of Spades - 10 points
: Ace of Spades - 7 points
: At the start of the game you pass three cards to the right, and there's
: no "shooting for the moon".
Same way we played it, except for we gave a 43 point bonus for 'the dirty'
This method of scoring is one of the best for several reasons. Now you
have to worry about three 'serious' cards, with just the QS plus Hearts
counting, the game was 'over' as soon as the QS was taken. This leads to
more planning opportunities and requires more game play, plus it sometimes
allows you to lead the QS knowing there is only the AS or KS left :)
It all is a matter of personal taste but I find Black Maria just so much
better.
The question of passing to the right (always) is important. Now you
cannot be sure your lead will be safe (as you could be if you pass to
the left). We also played that there were no restrictions on card leads.
You are allowed to lead a Heart or anything at any stage of the game.
If the above does not make much sense I am assuming everyone knows the
different rules about pass to the left, right, across and not being
allowed to lead Hearts until they are broken.
: It's a very good card game for three ( leave out the Two of Clubs );
: mu question is, would anyone who has played both games care to comment
: on their respective merits ?
As I said, I think it is one of the top three player games. It is
skilful as you know where 20 out of 51 cards are, with this you can
plan the play. I have tried the 10D variant, it is different but I
prefer the base game as is. The passing to the left does not work,
and I see not reason for the Heart lead restrictions. I think this
game is in the various David Parlett books, the best being in the
'Card Games for Three' an excellent book. Sorry if I have not given
good reasons for my preferences, it may come across as I like it
because I like it but I have tried a number of versions but always
find this version the best.
: Regards,
: Mark
Chris Lawson c.r.l...@bra0108.wins.icl.co.uk
Colin Bell
>Mark Bassett (ma...@iisc.co.uk) wrote:
>
>: In Black Maria the penalty cards are:
>
>: all the Hearts - 1 point each
>: Queen of Spades - 13 points
>: King of Spades - 10 points
>: Ace of Spades - 7 points
>
>: At the start of the game you pass three cards to the right, and there's
>: no "shooting for the moon".
>
>Same way we played it, except for we gave a 43 point bonus for 'the dirty'
>This method of scoring is one of the best for several reasons. Now you
>have to worry about three 'serious' cards, with just the QS plus Hearts
>counting, the game was 'over' as soon as the QS was taken. This leads to
>more planning opportunities and requires more game play, plus it sometimes
>allows you to lead the QS knowing there is only the AS or KS left :)
>It all is a matter of personal taste but I find Black Maria just so much
>better.
I disagree strongly with this being a better game than 'standard
Hearts' - which is the game I know of as Black Maria when played with
3 - (apart from 'shooting the moon', which I think should certainly be
included), since there is far too much luck involved in how many
spades you are dealt. In particular, unless you have a long holding, or
manage to throw it on a void, the Ace and King are always going to win
tricks without you being able to do anything about it. And as every time I've
played this game, most rounds start off with lot of spades being led out by
those with safe holdings, you have no time to establish a void. It is a very
rare hand indeed on which holding onto the top three spades is a good
strategy (if you have lots of spades, then the person you are passing to
won't have many, so you will be able to force them to take the top ones).
Whereas in the original, the QS may get forced out, but it is harder to do
(since you may have the A and K around as well), and having the A and K is
not so dreadful since you're likely to have a chance to play third on a
spade round.
>The question of passing to the right (always) is important. Now you
>cannot be sure your lead will be safe (as you could be if you pass to
>the left).
I don't understand this point. I would have though that passing to the right
gives you more safe plays than passing to the left: eg (going back to the
normal version), if you've passed the QS to your right, you can safely play
the AS and KS second without the risk of getting the Queen. I much prefer
varying the pass between the three options. You said later that 'passing
to the left does not work'. Could you explain why you think this?
>We also played that there were no restrictions on card leads.
>You are allowed to lead a Heart or anything at any stage of the game.
Agreed.
>As I said, I think it is one of the top three player games. It is
>skilful as you know where 20 out of 51 cards are, with this you can
>plan the play.
I find it's a bit prone to being 'card-counted': which makes it a very
skewed game if you have one or two players who can cope with it, and the
rest not. But for three balanced players it's pretty good (I'm now talking
about the 'original': the 'Black Maria' above I now refuse to play)
Colin
--
-
Colin Bell, CR...@CUS.CAM.AC.UK
Department of Pure Mathematics, University of Cambridge.
Mark Bassett
In article <3vqm5t$i...@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, <cr...@cus.cam.ac.uk> writes:
> I disagree strongly with this being a better game than 'standard
> Hearts' - which is the game I know of as Black Maria when played with
> 3 - (apart from 'shooting the moon', which I think should certainly be
> included), since there is far too much luck involved in how many
> spades you are dealt. In particular, unless you have a long holding, or
> manage to throw it on a void, the Ace and King are always going to win
> tricks without you being able to do anything about it. And as every time
I've
> played this game, most rounds start off with lot of spades being led out
by
> those with safe holdings, you have no time to establish a void. It is a
very
> rare hand indeed on which holding onto the top three spades is a good
> strategy (if you have lots of spades, then the person you are passing to
> won't have many, so you will be able to force them to take the top
ones).
>
I've never seen this as a problem in our games. How likely is it that two
players will both have long spade holdings without A, K or Q? And if they
do, well you play "shooting for the moon" anyway, so having the top spade
honours should be no handicap..
I recall games where I have been under pressure in spades, but I had no
problem simply winning with the Ace (once I was playing last to the trick,
of course). This is one of the nice features of the scoring systems, for 7
points isn't really a huge penalty, and now all the pressure is on the
player with the King.
> I don't understand this point. I would have though that passing to the
right
> gives you more safe plays than passing to the left: eg (going back to
the
> normal version), if you've passed the QS to your right, you can safely
play
> the AS and KS second without the risk of getting the Queen. I much
prefer
> varying the pass between the three options. You said later that 'passing
> to the left does not work'. Could you explain why you think this?
>
I can't speak for Chris Lawson, but my own preference for passing to the
right is for this reason: if players pass to the right you get to know
something about the hand of the player to your left, i.e. the one who
plays after you. So when you play to a trick you can, to some extent,
anticipate what card they will be playing on it as well.
Normally you would only have this advantage when your left-hand opponent
leads.
If everyone passes to the left, you get information about the hand of the
player who plays before you, but the only time this is of use is when it's
your lead, and leads tend to be more standard anyway.
So in my view, passing to the right makes for a more skilful game.
Regards,
Mark