Question about Pinochle...
Ed Sayre
: Well I just joined this newsgroup and I was wondering what were
: all the types of Pinochle. When I came to college I only knew the way my
: family plays, but I've seen others. Does anyone have the rules for these
: other types? Any help would be appreciated.
The two main variations I've seen deal with using either a single
deck or double deck game. I don't care for the double-deck version (does
anyone know where I can ftp a good single-deck version? The double-deck
one is nice, but I don't like d-d). You can change the rules about what
you need to open, and the point structure. My friends and I use 10 for an
Ace's round (I think 100 is standard...just find it easier to cut the
numbers), and play to a 150-pt differential, meaning you win if you're
150 pts better than your opponent (eg, you have 120, they have -30).
I've even played "cutthroat," which is a 3-player version, but I don't
care for that one...always trying to find a fourth! :) But I'm no expert,
just letting you know what I see here.
Regards,
--
Ed Sayre internet: ed.s...@m.cc.utah.edu
Kit McCormick
Some folks count a pinochle as 14 pts meld, others just 4.
I have heard mention of "tournament pinochle" (which is where a
14pt pinochle comes from).
I play with 2 decks (we toss out the 9's) and count a pinochle as
14 (30-90-120) meld.
I am very interested in hearing what others have to say in reponse to
your question.
Regards!
Kit McCormick
Casey Forest
I've played pinochle many ways. My family plays with a single deck,
and no passing of cards, which I have gathered is unusual. We start
the bidding at 100, which I would bid if I had 2 aces and nothing else.
a marriage is 20, pinochle 40, double pinochle only 80 (even if trump),
marriage in trump 40, double marriage in trump 80, trump suit 150 (160
with a nine). We each only bid ONCE! If I bid before my partner, my
bid indicates to them what I have in meld, if I want the bid, etc. We
also keep score by passing 1000 points worth of chips across to your
partner instead of keeping score on paper. I much prefer chips, but it
is what I grew up on. I have always had the impression that this is
a family version.
My ex-boyfriend's family played with two decks, I don't remember much
about it - it was several years ago.
I've also played with my grandpa at the senior citizens center a few times -
also a long time ago. They play both three and four handed. A double
pinochle is 300 or 400 (can't remember - it was a while back) as is
a double marriage in trump. Cards are passed in both 3 and 4 handed, and
the bidding goes round in round. The bidding also starts higher than my
family way - 150 or so I think. Like I said, it has been a while and
I've never quite adapted to this way of playing as well as the family way
which I, of course, think is the best :).
It has been my experience, unfortuntely, that pinochle is something of
a dying art. I LOVE this game - especially the family way - but we
don't do that much now that my grandma has passed away :(. My ex
boyfriend is the only person near my age (20s) that I have found that
plays the game. Lots of my friends have never even seen it played :(.
I'll be looking forward to reading other posts - to see if other folks
play the same way, or if there are even MORE variations.
casey
ca...@theocean.uoregon.edu
D
pinochle in trump is 300 or 400 (cant remember) as is a double marriage
Jim Jarrett
Forest) wrote:
>
> It has been my experience, unfortuntely, that pinochle is something of
> a dying art. I LOVE this game - especially the family way - but we
> don't do that much now that my grandma has passed away :(. My ex
> boyfriend is the only person near my age (20s) that I have found that
> plays the game. Lots of my friends have never even seen it played :(.
>
Wow. All of my friends know how to play (same age), and do so, ad
nauseum. That and euchre. :-)
We play where bidding starts at 26. A run is 15, K's around are 8, Q's 6,
J's 4, A's 10, marriage in trump 4, marriage 2, pinochle 4, double
pinochle 30 (?), a 9 of trump is 1. When playing 4 player, the partners
that get the bid pass 3 simultaneously.
3-player, during the deal we build up 3 cards in the kitty, and start
bidding at 21. Whoever gets the bid gets the kitty.
We also play with pinochle shorthand. If you've got an around, just show
the card of that suit. So, if you see the K of Hearts (if hearts is
trump) and Q of clubs, that's 10 points of meld.
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jim Jarrett, CCP |
| Eastman Kodak ESPC Engineering Services |
| 901 Elmgrove Road MC 35400 |
| Rochester, NY 14653-5400 (716) 726-6365 |
| jar...@pixel.kodak.com All opinions expressed are mine alone |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Richard Scheper
fo 20. There are 25 points in the deck: aces, kings, and tens are 1 point
each; last trick is one point. We play partners with 4 people. The
partners must sit opposite to each other. Meld goes like: marriage-2,
trump marriage-4, pinochle-4, run-15, aces around-10, kings around-8,
queens-6, jacks-4, 9 of trump-1. We play where you have to beat the
trick, and must trump if out of suit.
Anybody else play this way?
-Rich Scheper
Joseph Casadonte
: We play single deck. The minimum bid is 21, but the dealer is stuck
We rarely play cut-throat (must beat all tricks if able), but otherwise
we play exactly like this. Oh yeah, if trump is lead, then all players
must beat it if able.
We play 3 player both with and without the kitty (meow).
We also play 5 hand, with 2 decks, and ever-changing partners. If
anyone is interested I can get all the rules. It's kinda silly....
"Are you suggestin' coconuts mi-grate?"
Jerry Winner
Jim Jarrett <jar...@pixel.kodak.com> wrote:
>Wow. All of my friends know how to play (same age), and do so, ad
>nauseum. That and euchre. :-)
>
>We play where bidding starts at 26. A run is 15, K's around are 8, Q's 6,
>J's 4, A's 10, marriage in trump 4, marriage 2, pinochle 4, double
>pinochle 30 (?), a 9 of trump is 1. When playing 4 player, the partners
>that get the bid pass 3 simultaneously.
All my friends and I play pinochle. I learned to play in college where
90% of the floor in my dorm played. I often played for 6-8 hours a day.
(Why I never graduated). We play whenever we can get together. We use
rules very similair to the above. Except that we play auction bid, bid
starts at 21 if someone bids, 20 if the dealer gets stuck with it.
We vary between double pinochle being 30 or 8 (Depending on who's house).
We also don't pass any cards to our partners.
Christopher Beck
I read a lot of posts here about 4-hand and 3-hand pinochle but
how about 2-hand? Its a little strange but fun.
You play with one deck. Deal 10 cards to each player. The rest
in a pile face down. Turn the next card over and that is trump.
If it is a 9 then the dealer gets 1 pt. Now the opponent leads
any card out of his hand that he wants, usually 10's since they
are a point, a really high card, and useless in all meld except
trump. Anyway, the opponent can then follow with any card he
wants. Higher in the suit wins, trump wins. The winner of that
trick can then meld anything in his hand. Meld points are as follows:
2 - marriage
4 - marriage in trump
10 - run in trump ( 150 for the double run )
10 - Aces ( 100 for 8 aces )
8 - Kings ( 80 for 8 kings )
6 - Queens ( 60 for 8 queens )
4 - Jacks ( 40 for 4 jacks )
1 - 9 in trump
4 - pinochle
30 - double pinochle
All the doubles ( 8 aces, double pinochle, etc. ) must be melded
at the same time.
Also, if a 9 was not initially turned up, then the trick winner can
exchange a 9 of trump for the upturned card. Good deal if an ace
is the up card.
Well, play continues with the winner of the trick leading the next
trick and that winer then playing any meld he wants to. Melded cards
can be played and any time and can also be used in conjunction with
other melds later. ( eg. first meld 4 kings than the next trick
meld a queen to make a marriage. )
When all the cards in the pile are exhausted, you pick up your meld.
and then play out the rest of the cards in tricks, but you now must
follow suit, beating trump if lead, if possible. Final score is meld
plus 1 pt for all aces, 10s and kings collected.
Counting cards is a big help in this game. If you know that your
opponent has a run, stop him from melding it by playing the ace
of trump. Remember you can only meld if you win the trick.
I hope this makes sense. Its easier to show then to talk about.
I have a dos version of pinochle that has 2, 3 and 4 player options.
If anyone is interested, let me know.
Has anyone else ever played this way?
chris.
--
cb...@omni.voicenet.com
cb...@bluestone.com
Karen Paffendorf
(* those my family usually plays with)
value of double pinochle 300* or 80
number of packs 1* or 2 depending on the number of people.
passing cards, play with what is dealt, or bidding for a kitty*
scoring with paper or chips*
2 person mutation where you have to win a trick to meld (frustrating)
Give a person holding 5+ 9s $.25 where payment is $0.05 per 100 pts.
counting tricks kings 5 and queens 5 VS kings 10 and queens 0 *
(the trailing zero is then often dropped in scoring)
counting the hand double if trump is spades*, counting the hand
triple if in hearts (from book of hoyle, but still).
Although I learned from my grandfather, it was not that long ago
that I used to play with some others in my dorm. Keep looking
there are young people that play ... you can also teach them.
Actually have played during my lunch hour at work too.
--
Karen Paffendorf
Scott Johnson
> Wow. All of my friends know how to play (same age), and do so, ad
> nauseum. That and euchre. :-)
> We play where bidding starts at 26. A run is 15, K's around are 8, Q's 6,
> J's 4, A's 10, marriage in trump 4, marriage 2, pinochle 4, double
> pinochle 30 (?), a 9 of trump is 1. When playing 4 player, the partners
> that get the bid pass 3 simultaneously.
> 3-player, during the deal we build up 3 cards in the kitty, and start
> bidding at 21. Whoever gets the bid gets the kitty.
> We also play with pinochle shorthand. If you've got an around, just show
> the card of that suit. So, if you see the K of Hearts (if hearts is
> trump) and Q of clubs, that's 10 points of meld.
These are the same rules that we play with two different sets of friends,
except the opening bid is 25 and we don't use the shorthand melding. My
parents play this way with the added rule that an extra K or Q of trump
is worth 2 if you have a run and that 9's of trump save themselves as meld.
We've played double-deck with my sister and brother-in-law and everything
stays the same except the opening bid is 50 and there are no 9's. A real
mind-bender after playing a lot of single-deck where the bidding tops out
around 40.
And finally, with another couple we played single-deck no passing.
Scoring is the same but bidding starts at 15.
I guess we're pretty adaptable as far as rules go. The game is mostly
an excuse to sit around and gab.
Scott Johnson
s...@cv.hp.com
Tim Shippert
cards between the declaring partners. I always played this way, too, and
so has everybody I've ever met who played pinochle - but _no_ book I have
ever read giving the rules of pinochle has even listed card passing as a
variant. One would think that the Morehead and USPCC Hoyles (which you can
find everywhere) would at least make an attempt to track down commonly
played variants of the games they list (especially since they come out with
another edition every year or so).
Anyway, I grew up playing pinochle with my parents and siblings.
We always played that a pinochle is 6, but that is really non-standard and
one of my parents probably misrememberd the value from when they were kids.
Double pinochle is 30, and a "round robin" (marriage in every suit) was 50.
All eight aces was 100, all eight kings was 80, etc. Double run was 150.
Nobody ever got any of the high scoring sets, of course, so what they were
worth really doesn't matter.
We also play that if you bid so high that even after meld you are
more than 25 pts. away, you can still make your bid if you shoot the moon
(take every trick). This can get pretty fun if you have one loser in your
hand and you need to play it just right.
I have recently started playing with another group which uses
substantially different rules than any I've seen here. For one thing, they
pass four cards, but they do it like the kitty in three-handed: partner
passes four cards, declarer picks them up and looks, and _then_ passes four
back. I'm not sure if I like this or not (but hey, we play at their house,
so its their rules), but it does allow some interesting maneuvers. For
example, once the declarer had kings around, but couldn't pass them back to
her partner because she needed the king for her run. So she passed some
back aces to her partner, and during the play led her kings into those
aces. This is a called a finesse in bridge; you will win those tricks if
the opponant on declarer's right has the other ace, but you will lose them
if the opponant on declarer's left has it. I found this tactic extremely
pleasing, and it is less likely to happen in regular 3-card simultaneous
pass pinochle, because declarer's partner has already denuded himself of
any playing strength and has received a bunch of garbage in return.
This new group also uses what I not-so-affectionately call the
"stupid rule": if your side takes the bid, you _have_ to have a meld in
trump (run, marriage, or dix) or else you go down automatically - you don't
even get a chance to play it out. I can't find any redeeming value in this
rule; it places an arbitrary limitation on play, without adding any
corresponding benefit. However, like I said, their house, their rules.
Incidentally, my family seems to be the only people in the universe
who don't drop the trailing zero for point totals - we start the bidding at
250; marriages are worth 20, runs 150, aces around 100 (we call them "100
aces"). 250 pts. worth of tricks, counting last trick. Most books I've
seen keep the trailing zero in their scoring tables, although at least they
do mention that some groups drop it. I think keeping it is historically
accurate, because counters used to be different: instead of Aces, Tens and
Kings each worth 10 pts, I've seen scoring schemes where Kings and Queens
are each worth 5, and even more complicated ones where A=11, T=10, K=4,
Q=3, J=2. The latter scheme should also be used in the two-handed version
of pinochle, and is used in some other like klabberjass.
--
Tim Shippert ship...@alumni.caltech.edu
"If we are going to stick to this damned quantum-jumping, then I regret
that I ever had anything to do with quantum theory."
-E. Schrodinger
Geoffrey T. Dairiki
I learned to play Pinochle from my mom's side of the family. That and
Pan (panguine? anybody play that? -- another great game!) were obligatory
whenever visiting Grandpa & Grandma in Montana.
My friends and I started playing quite a bit and developed some bidding
conventions. Does anybody else use bidding conventions?
Generally they are (see appendix for a list of the rules I've been playing by):
Up by 10 (a minimum raise) once, then pass next chance:
This tells your partner that you have a mediocre to good "passing hand".
No voids -- probably can three good cards (e.g. trump or aces),
no matter what suit might be named trump.
Up by 10 twice (or more) before passing:
Does not guarantee any support. You may have voids/singletons galore.
This bid solely expresses interest in actually taking the bid.
Up by 20 (a jump bid), then pass:
Promises strong support should your partner take the bid. Generally
guarantees at least two decent trump in any suit, and no losers
in the pass. (Passed cards are all either trump, aces, or possibly
pinochle material if trump is spades or diamonds.) When a player makes
this bid, his/her partner generally must bid -- either to bluff, or
in earnest -- since this bid announces "I have three of each suit,
and have no hope of making any bid."
Up by 30:
Similar to up by 20, but not quite as strong. Guarantees no losers
in the pass, but there may be some singletons. This bid implies
lots of aces, and therefore does not obligate ones partner to
assume the bidding.
Up by 40:
Announces to the world that you hold three-quarters of the
double-pinochle. Your partners response, should he hold the
fourth piece should be another huge raise -- usually an
up by 30.
Appendix A
----------
Assumed rules:
1 deck -
Meld: marriage 20, 40 in trump
pinochle 40, 300 for double pinochle
J's around 40, 400 for double
Q's 60, 600
K's 80, 800
A's 100, 1000
Run in trump (J through A) 150, 1500 for double
9 of trump 10
Tricks: A's, 10's, K's 10 each
last trick 10
Four handed: opening bid is 250. Person who takes bid gets to exchange
four cards with partner, game is to 1500.
I've played three and two handed as well -- but, of course, bidding
conventions are of no use then...
David Dailey
I was hoping for when I voted for this newsgroup! (Well, that and
cribbage, too...)
My pinochle experience is similar to some of the rest of you, but
different in some ways, too. Since it looks like we're exchanging
"here's how I play" stories, here's mine:
I learned to play when I was about 6-- pinochle was a game all four
of us could play. We play four-handed racehorse auction, meaning
partners sit opposite each other, bid goes around until all but one
player has passed (a player is out of the bidding the first time he/she
says "pass"), and declarer receives four cards from partner after naming
trump, then sends back four cards. We play with a single 48-card deck.
Point values (we hold onto the trailing zero):
Run in trump: 150 Double: 1500
Nine of trump: 10
Marriage (trump): 40
Marriage (common): 20
Aces around: 100 Double: 1000
Kings around: 80 800
Queens around: 60 600
Jacks around: 40 400
Nines around: 10 :)
Pinochle: 40 Double: 300
Each player must beat the trick on the table, must trump if out of
suit, etc, even if that will screw up their partner.
Bidding starts at 260 (dealer liable for 250 if all pass). If
meld + 250 < bid, hand is thrown in (though I like the "shoot the
moon" clause mentioned earlier!). A team must take a pointer (A, 10,
K, or final trick) to save their meld, unless their meld is only
nines of trump.
We hold pinochle parties every couple of months-- invite over 12 or 16
people and have several tables going at once. Each table plays
four hands around, winning team moves to the next table, losers stay
put. Teams split on arriving at tables. Usually at least half of
the people have never played or have played very little, so it's a
great social event.
If you wanna talk pinochle, especially in the Seattle area, e-mail me!
David
michael kelly
played "100 Aces" and people from the west side played it "10 Aces".
We usually all played "10 Aces" (to 500) instead of the higher
multiples because we used the simplified point values for tricks.
(Only aces, tens and kings count, 1 point a piece.)
We generally played no-pass, but occasionally we would allow some
passing, with an appropriately higher bid.
Polish Pinochle (Queen of diamonds, Jack of Spades) was worth
two if you could get away with it. Nines around was worth 1 ;)
--
+ Mike Kelly, Notre Dame Department of Physics mke...@ovid.helios.nd.edu +
+ +
+ Oh, and never mind the words, just hum along and keep on going. +
+ - Ian Anderson +
Kit McCormick
What's this about swapping cards whilst playing pinochle? Never heard of
that. Could somebody please let me know how this works?
Thanx
Kit McCormick
Jennifer Goosney
generally in the thirties for a really good hand. Of course, meld points
are correspondingly lower - 15 for a run, 2 for a marriage, etc. Also,
I've never passed cards.
But I agree, it is a most excellent game and one that is not played
nearly enough. :)
Jenn.
Christopher R. Brull
: Hey!
: Thanx
: Kit McCormick
The game is called racehorse. After the cards are dealt the bid proceeds as
normal. The highest bidder gets to name trump. (Let's call the high bidder A,
and his partner B). After A names trump, B passes A four cards from B's hand.
The goal here is that B will give A the cards for a run, double pinochle, or
double marriage. After A lays down his meld, he passes four of the cards
remaining in his hand to B. Then everyone else melds. After that you play
normal pinochle.
Because getting a hand with lots o' meld is very easy to do, bidding tends
to go quite high. A bid of 500 is very makable. On the other hand, if you
count on your partner's hand for that one last card for a run, you can go down
big too... It's a fun game, but the emphasis is not so much on the play of the
game but the ability of your partner to give you the cards you need to make big
meld.
Enjoy!
-crb-
--
Christopher R. Brull University of Kansas
c-b...@ukans.edu Department of Physics and Astronomy
SWBT: (913)864-3610(w) Lawrence, KS 66045
(913)236-6277(h)
ICBM: 38 59 30N 94 38 00W ROCK CHALK, JAY HAWK, KU!!!
-
A millihelen is the amount of beauty necessary to launch one ship.
michael kelly
dai...@irving.apl.washington.edu (Geoffrey T. Dairiki) writes:
|> My friends and I started playing quite a bit and developed some bidding
|> conventions. Does anybody else use bidding conventions?
|> Up by 40:
|> Announces to the world that you hold three-quarters of the
|> double-pinochle. Your partners response, should he hold the
|> fourth piece should be another huge raise -- usually an
|> up by 30.
|> Four handed: opening bid is 250. Person who takes bid gets to exchange
|> four cards with partner, game is to 1500.
Pass four cards with a min bid of 250?!!! The minimum bid ought to be
at least 350! Unless your partner is a fool and refuses to pass you
queens and jacks of trump because it would break up his all-around,
you ought to be trump, ace and knuckle rich after the pass.
(I'm assuming that the declarer passes the knuckles unless Spades
or Diamonds is trump.)
This is generally why I don't like passing variants. Most people
refuse to up the minimum bid. I'd rather see teams get set occasionally
because of high bids than sit back and watch six aces and eight trump
come out of the declarer's hand every time.
The only convention I ever used was that I would meld "sideways"
if I had an ace in that suit. (Only when we played "cheating allowed"
of course...)
David C. Jones
>|> Four handed: opening bid is 250. Person who takes bid gets to exchange
>|> four cards with partner, game is to 1500.
>Pass four cards with a min bid of 250?!!! The minimum bid ought to be
>at least 350! Unless your partner is a fool and refuses to pass you
>queens and jacks of trump because it would break up his all-around,
>you ought to be trump, ace and knuckle rich after the pass.
>(I'm assuming that the declarer passes the knuckles unless Spades
>or Diamonds is trump.)
Excuse me, but don't make any comments about it unless you've tried
it. First of all 350 is not reasonable. 350 would be about the
average pull. Secondly, you have to remeber that in bidding games
part of the bidding is passing signals to your partner. The variation
I learned starts at 150, which I agree is probably a bit low, 250 would
seem fair, but if both teams average or loser hands you either have
to alter your signals or end up with a lot of set hands.
>This is generally why I don't like passing variants. Most people
>refuse to up the minimum bid. I'd rather see teams get set occasionally
>because of high bids than sit back and watch six aces and eight trump
>come out of the declarer's hand every time.
Because you're trying to fill your run, not fill in aces, you don't
get this very often. Again you show your ignorance of either having
not tried it, or only done it once. You also have to remember that
since your opponent will have the same option as you do (should they
win) that the high bids even themselves out. The bluffing strategy
also adds a different level to the game that I haven't seen in other
bidding variants of pinochle.
David J.
redd...@utdallas.edu
have not seen the way my friends and I play posted, so here goes...
Double-deck - toss the 9's (80 card deck)
Each player gets 20...
Bidding starts at 50...
Minimum raise 1 to 60
5 to 100
10 thereafter
Meld:
Arounds: Single Double
Aces 10 100
Kings 8 80
Queens 6 60
Jacks 4 40
Marriages 2 4
" of trump 4 8
Runs (trump 15 150
only)
Roundhouse 32 160
(marriage in
every suit)
Game was to 500...
Bidding Conventions:
Opening Bidder: 51 - Aces Around
59 - "Thousand Aces" - Double Aces Around
Raising Bids: By one unit...you want to name trump.
By two or more units...meld bid...
Under 60...Diff between bids x 10 = meld
Over 60...Jump bid indicates 30 meld
Also, we play a passing version of this game called Airplane...
After bidding, and trumps are named, we pass our partner 5 cards (both
sides)...This happens simultaneously...
Hope this is of some use...
Big John
S-FACTOR
Have played it 2,3,4,5, and 6 handed.
Mostly play in two handed.
Three handed plays with Kitty.
Four handed is partner.
2-4 handed is single deck
5 handed is great fun, double deck minus the nines, High bidder gets to
ask for a card. the person who has it is their partner for that round.
While the other three partner up (at least in the play of the hand)
6 handed-full double deck, 2 teams of 3 I think, although i have played
this most rarely.
I count pinochle as 4 and double pinochle as 30 (actually, I think
pinochle is really supposed to mean double; that is if you only have 1
queen and 1 jack then you have only a half of a pinochle).
but I count double marriages as 4 (in non-trump) and 8 (trump)
In the play of the hand, aces, tens and kings count one with last trick
counting one (2-4 handed) and two (5-6 handed)
Like to continue to hear from others who play pinochle.
Peter
Geoffrey T. Dairiki
<snip>
> Pass four cards with a min bid of 250?!!! The minimum bid ought to be
> at least 350!
> This is generally why I don't like passing variants. Most people
> refuse to up the minimum bid. I'd rather see teams get set occasionally
> because of high bids than sit back and watch six aces and eight trump
> come out of the declarer's hand every time.
Fighting words!
Try it before you knock it. We go set plenty often, thank you.
Though the min bid is 250, typical hands we play go for 370-400 --
sometimes higher still. The room for (legal) communication (it always
irritated me when my grandma would say "pass with help") makes things
quite interesting.
Of course, it always depends a lot on who you play with; however, if
you think bids are going too cheap, you can always bid more.
Just to plug my original question:
Does anyone else play pinochle with interesting bidding conventions?
mickm...@gmail.com
The evolving specifications page is available at www.powerpinochle.com/forum/PN.php
While I welcome all forms of feedback and contribution, I very desperately need to "see" a large range of functioning variants. Please contact me and if you are capable, please video a complete game in your known variants.
There sounds like a fair amount of enthusiasm in this group, please share it with me. The Pinochle Notation is not the end, it is the beginning. I will be building free online tools that rely on the notation. Browse the site, post in the forum. Grow the game!
