Wildcat #125 Pinball Cleaner
wildcat...@my-deja.com
the criticism of WILDCAT #125 on the internet as well as in print and in
telephone conversations. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I'm here to tell you I developed
the formula, I know what the ingredients are, it has been field tested and
there is NO repeat No proof by any operator distributor or manufacturer that
#125 does damage to any playfield and that includes mylar. This rumor started
several years ago with a pinball manufacturer who had their own agenda.
There was a personality conflict between myself and an executive of the
company. Thus the rumor got started by this small minded and unknowledgable
man about chemical products. He had no degree in chemistry or even a
working knowledge of how a formula is developed and processed to be
introduced to the public. I have stayed out of it because I thought it was a
petty attempt to defame myself, my prdouct and my company. WILDCAT PRODUCTS.
INC. has been developing and producing quality products for 31 years. It is
about time that I set this unfounded rumor to rest. We at WILDCAT take great
pride in developing quality products for the amusement, casino and vending
industries. This is a game that has progressed like a childs game where
rumors seem to develop into fact. I am here to state it is in fact a rumor,
unfounded and without basis. WILDCAT #125 has not and will not affect any
damage on a mylar playfield. I have heard of several cases where the mylar
was not applied properly and after applying #125 the area of mylar was
loosened but did not affect any other part of the playfield. I hope this
will once and for all stop these rediculous rumors. Should you have any
questions about our R & D or quality control please don't hesitate to contact
my office. Regards, Joe Peters President WILDCT PRODUCTS
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
dragster73
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
tat-2
Interesting.
Sorry, I had to comment. It isn't everyday that a company president posts in
this newsgroup.
tat-2
aka Ed
<wildcat...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8mq61g$mph$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Matthew
problems?
I say that if we have the president of Wildcat putting his credibility,
integrity and business on the line by making statements in this newsgroup we
should at least listen. If anyone has some personal experience that
contradicts his statements then post them.
Matthew
"dragster73" <dragster7...@hotmail.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:03749190...@usw-ex0105-035.remarq.com...
Bob E.
>
> Whooa, after all the Novus/Wildcat debates, the president speaks out!
> Interesting.
>
> Sorry, I had to comment. It isn't everyday that a company president posts in
> this newsgroup.
>
Hey, I post almost every day! --Bob
======================================================================
Bob Ellingson bob...@halted.com
Halted Specialties Co., Inc. http://www.halted.com
3500 Ryder St. (408) 732-1573
Santa Clara, Calif. 95051 USA FAX (408) 732-6428
rebel
The discussion was about petroleum distillates and diamondplate, not
Wildcat and mylar.
Someone jumped in and flamed me for saying Wildcat was bad, when I wasn't
even talking
about that product.
Sorry, but if I have any concerns about using a $20 product, whatever it
may be, on a valuable and
irreplaceable playfield, I'm just not going to use it! That is my choice.
I've seen the results both good
and bad. Again, I've never used Wildcat and am not saying anything good or
bad about that stuff.
--
Rob
...going my way?
"Matthew" <matt...@shianet.org> wrote in message
news:k24k5.20085$gv3.6...@news-east.usenetserver.com...
Cliffy
inert product like Meguires or Novus. So as long as Wildcat remains
harmful to plastics I won't trust it on my machines. Sorry.
wildcat...@my-deja.com wrote:
<snip a lot of unexplained hooey>
--
Cliffy
For Funhouse ramp repair kits;
http://members.home.net/crinear/ramps/ramps.html
'82 Tron U/R
'87 F-14 Tomcat
'90 Funhouse
Association of Pinball Owners and Players
Western Director
http://www.ilovepinball.com/APOP
Check out Marco Rossignoli's The Complete Pinball Book
http://members.home.net/crinear/pinbook.html
Tony Miklos
It is nice to see your post here. If you check Deja.com, you will see
that there has never been anyone here that has had a bad experience with
any of your products. There are however, a hell of a lot of rumors
going around. Don't worry Mr. Peters, checking Deja.com again, you will
see that the few people who have been in this business for ten or twenty
years agree that Wildcat #125 is a great product. We have reported what
we have seen from actual experience. It cleans, protects, and makes the
ball go fast. Many others here (who have never used your products)
continue to spread their rumors and hearsay. Personally, if I were you,
I would file some libel suits against these people who love to gossip.
--
Tony Miklos
Pinball Paramedic Repair Service
1372 Tagart Road
East Greenville, PA 18041
215-541-4167
"Repairs for most anything coin-op"
rebel
This just keeps getting more ridiculous.
--
Rob
...going my way?
"Tony Miklos" <tmi...@netcarrier.com> wrote in message
news:3990DA71...@netcarrier.com...
Mike Singer
about
> the criticism of WILDCAT #125 on the internet as well as in print and in
> telephone conversations. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I'm here to tell you I
developed
> the formula, I know what the ingredients are, it has been field tested and
> there is NO repeat No proof by any operator distributor or manufacturer
that
> #125 does damage to any playfield and that includes mylar.
OK this may be true, but do you have proof that it doesn't harm any
playfield and/or mylar?
I am not here to criticize and I would like to believe you but:
Why wouldn't you supply us with
A phone number
An address
A real email address
Afterall how are supposed to contact your office?
Mike Singer
www.avpinball.com
cody
I thought the problem with the product was with it yellowing
clear plastic ramps and clear plastics, not mylars. ANY
cleaning/waxing product will worm its way underneath loose mylar
and cause problems.
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, and it's still heresay,
but I thought a certain Gottlieb collector had experienced
problems with Wildcat yellowing clear plastic ramps. True or
false?
-Cody
President, EDLOCO fan club.
If yer not knockin' yer not winnin'.
Play STERN pinball!
Boycott Williams Gaming.
cfhNO...@provide.net.invalid
>clear plastic ramps and clear plastics, not mylars. ANY
>cleaning/waxing product will worm its way underneath loose mylar
>and cause problems.
Yes correct. The problem with wildcat is not mylar related
(though i agree, due to capillary action, wildcat can get
under mylar and loosen it; but after it evaporates, the
glue is essentially unharmed).
The problem with Wildcat is its affect on ACRYLIC plastics.
This includes ramps, "star" posts (like williams uses on
WPC games), and Diamondplate finishes. Wildcat CAN have a
negative affect on these acrylic plastic products.
This is why Williams recommends Novus2. Novus2 has no "hot"
solvents in it. Wildcat is largely solvent, and this is
what causes problems on acrylic plastics. Smell the stuff;
then smell Novus2. You'll understand.
That is the problem with Wildcat. The issue with mylar is
minimal, if it exists at all...
Gary Ludwick
playfield and/or mylar?<<
You cannot prove a negative.
Tony Miklos
> I am not here to criticize and I would like to believe you but:
>
> Why wouldn't you supply us with
>
> A phone number
> An address
> A real email address
>
> Afterall how are supposed to contact your office?
>
> Mike Singer
> www.avpinball.com
All the information you need is on the container. Buy some and try it!
It's great stuff!
dragster73
causing problems?
I say that if we have the president of Wildcat putting his
credibility, integrity and business on the line by making
statements in this newsgroup we should at least listen. If
anyone has some personal experience that contradicts his
statements then post them.
Matthew
The president of the untied states says he didnt have sexual
relations with that woman!!! and OJ says he didnt kill his wife
and i dont believe them either!
To whom it may concern: I have stood by for several years now
hearing about the criticism of WILDCAT #125 on the internet as
well as in print and in telephone conversations. ENOUGH IS
ENOUGH! I'm here to tell you I developed the formula, I know
what the ingredients are, it has been field tested and there is
NO repeat No proof by any operator distributor or manufacturer
that #125 does damage to any playfield and that includes mylar.
I have heard of several cases where the mylar was not applied
properly and after applying #125 the area of mylar was loosened
but did not affect any other part of the playfield.
Well one one hand you say it doesnt effect mylar and then on the
other you say it does if the mylar isnt applied correctly.
So which is it?
This alone is reason enough for me not to use this product on my
game.
If i get this under a corner of mylar that isnt applied
correctly and it starts to lift then you get dirt under it it
looks like crap! Now if i go to remove the hole piece of mylar i
may damage the part of the playfield that the mylar is still
stuck to by pulling on it. The cause of this is badly applied
mylar comming loose from using wildcat.
I personally dont use wildcat cleaner and i dont tell customers
that come into where i work to buy wildcat, not to buy it. They
can make a choice for themselve.
Tony Miklos
>
> DISCLAIMER: I have never used the Wildcat product.
>
> clear plastic ramps and clear plastics, not mylars. ANY
> cleaning/waxing product will worm its way underneath loose mylar
> and cause problems.
>
> but I thought a certain Gottlieb collector had experienced
> problems with Wildcat yellowing clear plastic ramps. True or
> false?
>
> -Cody
The question is, why the hell would someone badmouth the product when
they were using it in ways other than it's intended purpose? The label
says it is a PLAYFIELD cleaner! Duh.
--
Tony
cody
people clean their ramps with their playfield cleaner, duh. Why
would you use two different products to clean your playfield and
ramps when another can do both, duh. I didn't "badmouth"
anything, just stated what has been stated before, and described
it as such, duh.
You made your point you like the stuff...no need to attack me
for participating in discussion, duh.
-Cody
President, EDLOCO fan club.
If yer not knockin' yer not winnin'.
Play STERN pinball!
Boycott Williams Gaming.
-----------------------------------------------------------
dragster73
You apear ready to fight for this stuff till the end.
Tony i wish i had a bottle of this stuff in front of me to read
what it says. Does it tell you on the bottle not to use it on
plastic? or does it just say it is a pinball machine PLAYFIELD
cleaner? or you can use it to clean your pinball machine?
Tony Miklos
>
> You made your point you like the stuff...no need to attack me
> for participating in discussion, duh.
I wasn't attacking you. You said that you don't know if it harms
anything or not, and I respect that. I was attacking the people who
state that it IS bad when they have no proof or evidence of it ever
doing any damage.
--
Tony
cfhNO...@provide.net.invalid
I think Tony IS the president of wildcat! lots of stock options.
>Tony i wish i had a bottle of this stuff in front of me to read
>what it says. Does it tell you on the bottle not to use it on
>plastic? or does it just say it is a pinball machine PLAYFIELD
>cleaner? or you can use it to clean your pinball machine?
Wildcat works great for removing old sticker off the sides
of your pinball cabinet! it's a good adhesive remover...
Tony Miklos
>
> Tony do you have stock in this product???
I have no stock in the Wildcat Chemical Company. I wish I did! I
happen to like their product and I hate to see people spreading rumors
about a it when they have no evidence whatsoever to substantiate their
claims.
> Tony i wish i had a bottle of this stuff in front of me to read
> what it says. Does it tell you on the bottle not to use it on
> plastic?
No it does not. Why do you ask? Do you have any proof that it will
harm plastic? Please note your sources!
> or does it just say it is a pinball machine PLAYFIELD
> cleaner?
Yes. Well actually it says "pinball playfield cleaner and polish"
> or you can use it to clean your pinball machine?
No, nothing on the label suggests it is an all purpose cleaner. It does
however say that it is good for polishing pool balls and air hockey
tables (with the air turned ON!) It doesn't mention it but it also does
wonders for glass! Try it on a slightly worn glass. It's more work
than windex but it will look great!
--
Tony
Tracy Fort
the other hand goes good with pizza.
Tracy
On Tue, 08 Aug 2000 23:44:49 GMT, in rec.games.pinball you wrote:
>To whom it may concern: I have stood by for several years now hearing about
>the criticism of WILDCAT #125 on the internet as well as in print and in
>telephone conversations. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I'm here to tell you I developed
>the formula, I know what the ingredients are, it has been field tested and
>there is NO repeat No proof by any operator distributor or manufacturer that
>#125 does damage to any playfield and that includes mylar. This rumor started
>several years ago with a pinball manufacturer who had their own agenda.
>There was a personality conflict between myself and an executive of the
>company. Thus the rumor got started by this small minded and unknowledgable
>man about chemical products. He had no degree in chemistry or even a
>working knowledge of how a formula is developed and processed to be
>introduced to the public. I have stayed out of it because I thought it was a
>petty attempt to defame myself, my prdouct and my company. WILDCAT PRODUCTS.
>INC. has been developing and producing quality products for 31 years. It is
>about time that I set this unfounded rumor to rest. We at WILDCAT take great
>pride in developing quality products for the amusement, casino and vending
>industries. This is a game that has progressed like a childs game where
>rumors seem to develop into fact. I am here to state it is in fact a rumor,
>unfounded and without basis. WILDCAT #125 has not and will not affect any
>damage on a mylar playfield. I have heard of several cases where the mylar
>was not applied properly and after applying #125 the area of mylar was
>loosened but did not affect any other part of the playfield. I hope this
>will once and for all stop these rediculous rumors. Should you have any
>questions about our R & D or quality control please don't hesitate to contact
>my office. Regards, Joe Peters President WILDCT PRODUCTS
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 04:10:48 GMT, Cliffy <cri...@home.net> wrote:
>Hmmm but you still haven't explained any BENEFIT of using it over an
>inert product like Meguires or Novus. So as long as Wildcat remains
>harmful to plastics I won't trust it on my machines. Sorry.
>
>wildcat...@my-deja.com wrote:
><snip a lot of unexplained hooey>
Warner Robins,Ga
912-953-6428
ICQ 349793
Dave Stambaugh
reasonable to assume it's going to get on the acrylic plastic parts. So if
it's not intended for use on those parts, it should say so on the label.
OTOH, if the product is harmless to everything found on a p/f, it would be
to the manufacturer's advantage to say that. It's just like chrome polish
for cars: the label says what it's for and what it's NOT for. I'm not
knocking Wildcat. But I think everyone agrees that Novus #2 is harmless to
all parts found on a playfield, so it seems like it's probably safer to use.
Are you saying Wildcat is completely safe to use on everything found on a
playfield?
-dave (not trying to pick an argument, honest)
"Tony Miklos" <tmi...@netcarrier.com> wrote in message
news:3991B8F2...@netcarrier.com...
Kellie
Ok, I've stayed out of it for as long as I can. Dave, you have a point. I
think Novus is best used by the collector who doesn't need to clean as
often. But for route operators, Wildcat cleans the fastest, and as an
operator, it's never harmed anything on any of my playfields. One wipe, and
grime is instantly gone. But maybe that's because we clean every week. I
don't purposely clean plastic ramps with it just to stay on the safe side,
but there's never been a problem. But if you have a grimey playfield,
something like Wildcat is going to get it clean the fastest.
My .02,
Kellie
Tony Miklos
>
> Are you saying Wildcat is completely safe to use on everything found on a
> playfield?
No. I however have never seen it cause any harm to anything on a
playfield.
Are you saying that it isn't safe to use on everything found on a
playfield? If so, what will it harm? Please back up any claims with
facts and sources. This entire argument is about here say, let's get to
the facts.
--
Tony
Dave Stambaugh
"opinions" I respect say it isn't safe on acrylics. Novus is -- nobody
disputes that. Tony, you're taking this too personally. I think it boils
down to this: Everyone agrees Novus is safe for just about everything. Not
everyone agrees about Wildcat. Even the president of the company didn't say
"Safe for everything". That's not a knock. I'm just saying that if I have
a choice of 2 effective cleaner/polishes, and one is safe for everything,
and the other may not be, I will take the safe one.
We haven't even mentioned that Novus is less expensive. :)
-dave
"Tony Miklos" <tmi...@netcarrier.com> wrote in message
news:3991D15F...@netcarrier.com...
Dave Stambaugh
than most of us. So you should use what works best for you. Now
personally, I find Novus to be incredibly effective as a cleaner/polish, and
I'm 99.9% sure it's harmless to everything found on a playfield, so that's
what I use.
Here's a challenge for you: Clean a route game with whatever you normally
use. Then follow that up with a liberal application of Meguiar's Carnauba
Paste Wax. My prediction is that you can either 1) Go two weeks between
cleanings, or 2) Each weekly cleaning will be much easier. In fact you can
probably use the wax as a 1-step cleaner/wax if the p/f isn't too grimey.
So when a p/f is grimey, I do Novus followed by wax. If the p/f is just a
little dirty, it gets just the wax. This works great for me and is a big
timesaver -- fewer cleanings.
-dave
"Kellie" <pinv...@skybinamusements.com> wrote in message
news:8msj4o$18n0$1...@newssvr05-en0.news.prodigy.com...
> > Are you saying Wildcat is completely safe to use on everything found on
a
> > playfield?
> >
> > -dave (not trying to pick an argument, honest)
> >
> > "Tony Miklos" <tmi...@netcarrier.com> wrote in message
cody
switched on yesterday by mistake. Pay no attention to the man
behind the computer.
-Cody
President, EDLOCO fan club.
If yer not knockin' yer not winnin'.
Play STERN pinball!
Boycott Williams Gaming.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Tony Miklos
>
> I'm not saying it isn't safe because I don't know. But others whose
I look at it this way. There is a large "Pinball Community" and we are
all part of it. Would you talk bad about me here on RGP just because
others told you their opinion of me? I don't think you would because I
believe you are a good and honest person who wouldn't gossip and spread
rumors. Now think of Mr. Joe Peters. He is also part of this
community. There are numerous people here that continuously talk bad
about his products when in fact they have NO history of using them.
They are simply going on hearsay and badmouthing Mr. Peters product.
Since I am one of the very small percentage of people here that do have
experience using his products (for 20 years), I feel obligated to stand
up for him.
> I think it boils down to this: Everyone agrees Novus is safe for just about everything.
Well not exactly. For fifty years pinball manufacturers warned about
the dangers of water based cleaners. I'm sure on a good playfield it's
not going to cause harm, but there is no way I would use water based
novus on a playfield that has cracked or missing paint! If it's really
dirty and long overdue for a cleaning, I use wildcat with a little
polishing compound added to it.
>
> We haven't even mentioned that Novus is less expensive. :)
But it's only a cleaner and polish. Wildcat is a cleaner, a gentle
polish, a wax, and it's quick.
Look, I know darn well that a carnuba paste wax is going to protect
better than wildcat, but that's not the point here. The point is that
until someone proves that wildcat has ever harmed anything, then they
should keep it to themselves instead of badmouthing an upstanding member
of this pinball community. Wildcat #125 does what the label say's and
it does it quickly and easily, and of course, no one has ever proven it
harms anything.
Well, I'm about sick of this subject and I'm sure everyone else here is
also. I'll try to resist any further replies.
--
Tony
cfhNO...@provide.net.invalid
>and we are all part of it. Would you talk bad about me here
>on RGP just because others told you their opinion of me?
i don't know. maybe we should ask Rob Lawshe? I WANT RUMORS!
(cuz most rumors are based in truth!).
>They are simply going on hearsay and badmouthing Mr. Peters
product.
You think this is this some conspiracy theory? Like who killed
Kennedy?
>Since I am one of the very small percentage of people
>here that do have experience using his products (for 20
>years), I feel obligated to stand up for him.
Which is fine! You are a professional, and wildcat has
worked for you. But the facts are here; it is easy to
mis-use this product and cause damage!
>> I think it boils down to this: Everyone agrees Novus is
>> safe for just about everything.
>Well not exactly. For fifty years pinball manufacturers
>warned about the dangers of water based cleaners. I'm sure
>on a good playfield it's not going to cause harm, but there
>is no way I would use water based novus on a playfield that
>has cracked or missing paint!
(manufacturers are referring to water products like
Windex and the like).
I use Novus2 ALL THE TIME on games from the 1950's to the
1990's. That includes lacquer EM playfields with missing
paint.NO PROBLEMS.
Actually Wildcat is WORSE for playfields with missing paint!!!
Ya hear that Tony? WORSE! you are cause WAY MORE damage to
worn playfields by using Wildcat!
this is WHY: wildcat is the consistency of water. when applied
to a playfield with missing paint, wildcat is "soaked up" by
the pores of the revealing wood. Also capillary action will
"suck" Wildcat under delaminating paint. This causes the wood
to expand. This expansion can cause paint delamination!!!!!
Because novus2 is so THICK, the pores of the wood have a
really hard time extraction ANY moisture from the Novus2.
Novus2 is FAR SAFER on worn playfields than Wildcat! If
you think otherwise, well... "jane, you ignorant slut!"...
>> We haven't even mentioned that Novus is less expensive. :)
>But it's only a cleaner and polish. Wildcat is a cleaner,
>a gentle polish, a wax, and it's quick.
"gentle"? you are smoking crack! Wildcat is a wax? Oh that's
right, you think Oswald was the only gunman too, right?
>Look, I know darn well that a carnuba paste wax is going
>to protect better than wildcat, but that's not the point here.
It's not the point, but it's good to remember! Thanks for
bring it up...
>Wildcat #125 does what the label say's and
>it does it quickly and easily, and of course, no one has
>ever proven it harms anything.
Well i have! and so has Tim Arnold. And frankly, if ONE
person has a problem with wildcat, THAT'S ONE PERSON TOO
MANY for me.
Here's another person, a friend of mine (that doesn't visit
this group). He was cleaning a Gottlieb EM playfield with
a rag soak in wildcat. He got distracted, and left the rag
on the playfield. He came back a couple hours later, and
found the paint on the playfield was soft! So soft, when he
used the Wildcat, it started to remove the paint.
SO what exactly do you think caused that? the SOLVENTS in
wildcat!
Bottom line: Wildcat is NOT a good product IN MY OPINION.
If it works for you Tony, fine, use it! And we appreciate
the input. But you MUST remember the audience in this
newsgroup. You have complete novices to experts. And because
we have such a wide range of experience, i feel that Novus2
is WAY SAFER to use.
I have experiemented with both Wildcat and Novus2.
Bottom line: i HAVE SEEN damage to playfields with Wildcat.
And you can take that to the bank!
Tony Miklos
"c...@provide.net" wrote:
> Actually Wildcat is WORSE for playfields with missing paint!!!
> Ya hear that Tony? WORSE! you are cause WAY MORE damage to
> worn playfields by using Wildcat!
>
> this is WHY: wildcat is the consistency of water. when applied
> to a playfield with missing paint, wildcat is "soaked up" by
> the pores of the revealing wood. Also capillary action will
> "suck" Wildcat under delaminating paint. This causes the wood
> to expand. This expansion can cause paint delamination!!!!!
Hey cfh, go back to science class before spewing more rumors. Petroleum
distillates do not cause wood to swell. On the other hand, water does!
See why I don't listen to rumors? They are often started by someone
talking about things they don't understand.
> Novus2 is FAR SAFER on worn playfields than Wildcat! If
> you think otherwise, well... "jane, you ignorant slut!"...
With comments like that and all the other garbage that I snipped, I'm
wondering why I'm even giving you the courtesy of a reply.
> Here's another person, a friend of mine (that doesn't visit
> this group). He was cleaning a Gottlieb EM playfield with
> a rag soak in wildcat. He got distracted, and left the rag
> on the playfield. He came back a couple hours later, and
> found the paint on the playfield was soft! So soft, when he
> used the Wildcat, it started to remove the paint.
So he MISUSED the product, it softened the paint, and you're blaming the
product instead of him? I don't understand your reasoning?
I suppose if it was novus that he left on a bare part of the playfield
and the grain of the wood raised, cracking the paint, that would have
been his fault, not the novus.
Personally, if I had noticed the paint was softened, I would have let it
sit until it hardened again. That was his second mistake.
> But you MUST remember the audience in this
> newsgroup. You have complete novices to experts.
Yes you are correct, and most of the experts agree that wildcat is a
great product! They know from experience! Most of the novices (who
overwhelm this group) believe the rumors.
Let's keep this a civil discussion, no need for the silly comments.
Let's stick to the facts. You have claimed to have seen problems
firsthand that were caused by wildcat. I don't understand why don't you
share them with us? Are you afraid they are unfounded and you may get
sued?
--
Tony
cfhNO...@provide.net.invalid
>comments.
Ok, sorry for my previous silly comments. you are 100% right
there!
>> Actually Wildcat is WORSE for playfields with missing paint!!!
>> Ya hear that Tony? WORSE! you are cause WAY MORE damage to
>> worn playfields by using Wildcat!
>>
>> this is WHY: wildcat is the consistency of water. when applied
>> to a playfield with missing paint, wildcat is "soaked up" by
>> the pores of the revealing wood. Also capillary action will
>> "suck" Wildcat under delaminating paint. This causes the wood
>> to expand. This expansion can cause paint delamination!!!!!
>
>Hey cfh, go back to science class before spewing more rumors.
>Petroleum distillates do not cause wood to swell. On the
>other hand, water does!
>See why I don't listen to rumors? They are often started by
>someone talking about things they don't understand.
Ah, but you think i just pulled this out of my ass?
I used to do professional wood finishes. and one part
of doing these finishes is to "raise the grain", in
the sanding prep of the wood.
Typically i would use water. because as you stated, it
raises the grain easily. BUT i would also use other
products, depending on wood and the situation. So a
blanket "pet dist" doesn't raise grain is DEAD WRONG.
that IS from experience!!! (and LOTS of it!). I used
a number of different pet dist products to raise grain
in varing amounts. THIS IS REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE.
>> Here's another person, a friend of mine (that doesn't visit
>> this group). He was cleaning a Gottlieb EM playfield with
>> a rag soak in wildcat. He got distracted, and left the rag
>> on the playfield. He came back a couple hours later, and
>> found the paint on the playfield was soft! So soft, when he
>> used the Wildcat, it started to remove the paint.
>
>So he MISUSED the product, it softened the paint, and you're
>blaming the product instead of him? I don't understand your
>reasoning?
yes he did mis-use the product. but the point is, it wasn't
that difficult to mis-use it! That's really the issue.
>I suppose if it was novus that he left on a bare part of the
>playfield and the grain of the wood raised, cracking the
>paint, that would have been his fault, not the novus.
But you are missing the point! the AMOUNT of solvent in
these two products is SIGNIFICANTLY different (solvent being
pet dist for wildcat, water for novus2). That's the issue!
Novus2 is SO THICK, capillary action CAN NOT OCCUR! And
that's the reason Novus2 is so good! Wildcat is so thin,
capillary action happens EASILY.
And raising the grain or not, if capillary action happens,
you have a foreign product that "wedges" itself between
the paint and the wood. THIS IS BAD. VERY BAD. (regardless
of what the material is!)
>Let's stick to the facts. You have claimed to have seen
>problems firsthand that were caused by wildcat. I don't
>understand why don't you share them with us? Are you afraid
>they are unfounded and you may get sued?
i have been sharing them with you! it seems you just refuse
to believe them...
rebel
Hmm, lets see... you started all of this when you flamed *me* for
'gossiping' about wildcat when I wasn't
even talking about it!! You also implied anyone who hasn't cleaned pinballs
for 10-20 years can't
possibly know what they are talking about. If somebody's experience or
opinion (based on experience) means nothing, why should yours then? Nobody
has to prove anything. Many agree that petroleum distillate is not
the best cleaner for diamondplated playfields, and is probably harmful if
used long term. I've seen what happens.
You can't convince me otherwise, especially when something like Novus is
much safer and nicer to work with.
Is wildcat flammable?
Is it toxic?
Does it have strong vapours?
Are the vapours bad for you?
What would you rather have on your skin?
Does wildcat affect plastic?
Just curious..
--
Rob
...going my way?
> Let's keep this a civil discussion, no need for the silly comments.
> Let's stick to the facts. You have claimed to have seen problems
> firsthand that were caused by wildcat. I don't understand why don't you
> share them with us? Are you afraid they are unfounded and you may get
> sued?
>
> --
> Tony
Edloco
>Well, I'm about sick of this subject and I'm sure everyone else here is
>also. I'll try to resist any further replies ..Tony (Snip)
OK, Tony, New Subject : Randy Buffalo uses Wildcat 125 on his 93 + -
games on Location.........EL
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John
Wolffyg
with the product and had phenominal results.
Here are the simple rules I use to make sure there are no abuses with the
product:
1) Do a small area of the playfield at a time
2) Apply the wild cat in circular motions
3) With a dry rag buff the areas of the playfiled just cleaned
4) By suggestion from people in the news group, use wildcat on playfield only,
not ramps, ball guides or plastics
My results from using wild cat is I get vivid colors on the playfield artwork,
a shine on the table, and ball speed is dramatically increased.
If you are a detail oriented person I would suggest wildcat, however if you
want to do a quick clean and get the game running, use Novus
-wolffy
Fred
stuff.....I never could figure out how anybody bought into THAT!?....
"Wolffyg" <wol...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000814174633...@ng-md1.aol.com...
1Ripper
I've only used Wildcat on my pins and NEVER had a problem. I tried Novus,
but it left dirt behind thaht Wildcat cleaned up.
Bill
who prefers Wildcat anyday over Novus
Tony Miklos
>
> Looks like we - again - have the Novus vs. Wildcat debate again, eh? :)
>
> I've only used Wildcat on my pins and NEVER had a problem. I tried Novus,
> but it left dirt behind thaht Wildcat cleaned up.
>
> Bill
> who prefers Wildcat anyday over Novus
It's nice to see a few more speaking up for the product they prefer,
even if it isn't the "popular" thing to use. I still haven't seen any
actual complaints about it except for "I've heard it does damage". The
one person here that claimed he has seen it do damage, never told us
what damage he actually witnessed.
--
Tony
tat-2
two, I think it might clean up my MR&*mrs pacman nicely....
I got into the novus, basically because it was recommended and available in
the 64oz bottle.
I know petroleum distilates will clean much better then an amonia based
product.
BTW: amy people who mentioned using "Butchers" paste wax READ the lable!
It is a excellent wood (petroleum based paste wax)
Tat-2
not wanting to start a war...
"Tony Miklos" <tmi...@netcarrier.com> wrote in message
news:399C1009...@netcarrier.com...
Terry Cumming
>
> To whom it may concern: I have stood by for several years now hearing about
> the criticism of WILDCAT #125 on the internet as well as in print and in
> telephone conversations. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I'm here to tell you I developed
> the formula, I know what the ingredients are, it has been field tested and
> there is NO repeat No proof by any operator distributor or manufacturer that
> #125 does damage to any playfield and that includes mylar.
I can't give any definitive answers, but I can provide some empirical
observations. I've used W125 on EM playfields for over 20 years on my
home games. I can't think of any case where I believe it caused any
damage. The stuff cleans dirt very well.
It seems good common sense not to "soak" playfields in the stuff,
especially on open wood.
Remember that this product was "recommended by Bally" <g>
I think it also makes sense to use a wax after cleaning. I recently just
opened up a can of Johnson's paste wax. I bought around 1978 and just
used it for the first time a couple of weeks ago! The stuff still seems
perfect.
Terry Cumming
http://1930s.com
NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS: tcum...@axxent.ca
1Ripper
In fact, Wildcat has cleaned the playfields BETTER than Novus! I have a
nice bottle of Novus gathering dust...
Bill
Wildcat all the way!