WHITEWATER TOPPER repro, in all seriousness

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darinjacobs

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Dec 1, 2011, 10:51:16 AM12/1/11
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Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
fell apart.

Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
but then maybe sell one every few months or so.

Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.

Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
with this. This is for the sign only.

I welcome your feedback.

Thanks
Darin


--
darinjacobs

PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decal...@comcast.net'
(decal...@comcast.net)
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

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Adam Becker

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:00:21 AM12/1/11
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I'll preorder one

On Dec 1, 10:51 am, darinjacobs <decalsa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> fell apart.
>
> Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> I welcome your feedback.
>
> Thanks
> Darin
>
> --
> darinjacobs
>
> PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> (decalsa...@comcast.net)

scubadentist

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:01:44 AM12/1/11
to
On Dec 1, 9:51 am, darinjacobs <decalsa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> fell apart.
>
> Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> I welcome your feedback.
>
> Thanks
> Darin
>
> --
> darinjacobs
>
> PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> (decalsa...@comcast.net)
> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com

Well, I'd buy one for starters....
Message has been deleted

Pinster68

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:12:08 AM12/1/11
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darinjacobs;1832140 Wrote:
> Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> fell apart.
>
> Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> I welcome your feedback.
>
> Thanks
> Darin

To confirm for all ... we are talking just the decal for $200, right?


--
Pinster68

kickback

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:00:30 AM12/1/11
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I am very interested in a repro topper. Would this include the backing
plate as well as the decal? If so, I would think that you could easily
sell all 500 within six months, even if you had to resort to ebay
after you satisfied the rgp needs.

Why don't you have Rick open up pre-orders on his site and see what
the demand is?

CEllison

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:10:32 AM12/1/11
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I think the 250 mark is going to be extremely hard to hit in a short
time frame.
First thing I'd do is make it mandatory for pre-payment. If the
project falls through people get refunded. No one should squak about
that and if they do they aren't serious about wanting one anyway.
Honestly, I think you guys need to look at this as a long term
investment instead of a "hit and run" type scenario. Selling 500 is
completely doable considering all the topperless machines out there
but you need to plan on sitting on some for a couple years would be my
guess.
"Now watch the topper horders start dumping them on eBay to ensure
they don't lose money with new product coming out"

-=Chris=-
Message has been deleted

Taylorva

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:36:57 AM12/1/11
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I would buy one but 250 seems like a tall order.

I believe pinball inc. has the mold for the stand up plastic piece.


--
Taylorva

Homer Stevens

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:38:46 AM12/1/11
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Darin,
I think you could sell that many.A lot of games missing the topper and
A whole lot with bubbled and discolored toppers.
Homer

psk445

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:33:59 AM12/1/11
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I would be in for one.

Also, I think selling 250+ of them would be fairly easy at the $200
price point. It's not just people who are completely missing the
topper that would have a need for this, but would also include people
with faded toppers (common) or with damaged toppers (bubbled) and also
people that are doing high end restores.

Pacpin

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:52:19 AM12/1/11
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As much as i'd like to see this happen, realistically, 250 would be a
near impossible sale, let alone getting rid of the of the other 250.

Think about it, how many people on RGP even own a WH2O? And out of
that, how many NEED new toppers. I'd be surprised if you got even 50
orders out of the RGP group. So far you've got 6 people saying they
want one? That's a far cry from 250. So now you've got the remaining
200 to sell on ebay. Well what person that would spend 200 on a topper
isn't part of RGP or at least knows alot about pins? Not many. I'd
guess maybe 10-15 you could move on ebay. Then the orders would trickle
in after that. You might be better off to raise the price to 300.00 and
only have to move 100 units to break even.


--
Pacpin

NM

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:58:12 AM12/1/11
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I'd be in.


--
NM

Current: AFM, CFTBL, FGY, MB, NGG, SS, STTNG, TAF, ToM, TSPP, TZ, WH2O,
'54 Gottlieb Stage Coach.

psk445

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:00:55 PM12/1/11
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On Dec 1, 8:52 am, Pacpin <jml_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Think about it, how many people on RGP even own a WH2O?  And out of
> that, how many NEED new toppers.

A LOT!

> So now you've got the remaining
> 200 to sell on ebay.  Well what person that would spend 200 on a topper
> isn't part of RGP or at least knows alot about pins?  Not many.

RGP is a very small percentage of the pinball community (albeit it's
the most active.) New WH20 toppers on eBay would sell like hotcakes
as you are now reaching the entire world of pinball owners and would
easily sell for $200+.

Amazingly this was actually a somewhat contributing post from you.


seymour.shabow

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:14:59 PM12/1/11
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darinjacobs wrote:
> Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> fell apart.
>
> Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> I welcome your feedback.

Prepaid preorder. History indicates lots of these projects are done
without this and the maker ends up stuck with them.

B.T.C.

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:04:13 PM12/1/11
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I would preorder one

pinballace

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:10:48 PM12/1/11
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kickback;1832148 Wrote:
> I am very interested in a repro topper. Would this include the
> backing
> plate as well as the decal? If so, I would think that you could
> easily
> sell all 500 within six months, even if you had to resort to ebay
> after you satisfied the rgp needs.
>
> Why don't you have Rick open up a pre-order on his site?

We've already made the backbox decal support so all that's left is the
decal. Please make the decal!


--
pinballace

Hans

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:13:14 PM12/1/11
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I think that $200 may be a bit prohibitive to be honest. Even without
the topper, it's already an expensive machine to restore given the
cost of the ramps.
Then add in another $125 or so for the dome and stand of course, and
it's $325 for everything.

You'd sell some in the initial frenzy for people that really want
one, but it's not low enough for folks like myself who have decently
passable toppers already.

-Hans


Message has been deleted

scottself

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:45:31 PM12/1/11
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Having experienced first hand (at Big Time Cabinets) the tendency of
buyers to fade away once a product is released, I would say go the
pre-order route.

That being said, I am definitely in for one!


--
scottself

James Lewis

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:50:09 PM12/1/11
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If we are talking just the decal..... no. If we are talking the decal
with the plastic standup I would probably be in IF I could buy the
plastic dome to go over it. When I bought mine I chose a complete
mountain set over a topper having no idea that the silly topper would
lower the value that much. I care not, it doesnt make the game any less
fun.


--
James Lewis

bakas...@yahoo.com

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:54:56 PM12/1/11
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Count me in for one! Totally willing to pre-pay for one too. My
machine has a topper but it has seen better days.

Brian

psk445

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:06:28 PM12/1/11
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HUH?

Dome:
http://mad-amusements.com/product.php?id_product=458

Plastic Stand:
http://mad-amusements.com/product.php?id_product=1689

New Decal:
TBD

Complete brand new topper = $300

On Dec 1, 9:50 am, James Lewis <zr11...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

ChevelleSSguy

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:11:18 PM12/1/11
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If your looking to make your money back or break even right off the
bat. Thats probably not going to happen. If your looking to sell them
all, it might take a little bit but they will certainly sell. I had no
idea these werent being made actually. It sounds like a lot of people
need them. If you post a presale here on RGP, KLOV, Pinside, Ebay,
Craigslist, and all the other classifieds out there you can find. You
should be fine.

kenny_ii

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:35:01 PM12/1/11
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I have to disagree about requiring prepayment. Sears doesn't require a
prepayment to make your new TV. Hobby guys without resources may need
deposits for funding, but companies bring products to market without
deposits all the time, it's sort of the way it works.

K2
--
kenny_ii

seymour.shabow

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:56:03 PM12/1/11
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kenny_ii wrote:
> I have to disagree about requiring prepayment. Sears doesn't require a
> prepayment to make your new TV. Hobby guys without resources may need
> deposits for funding, but companies bring products to market without
> deposits all the time, it's sort of the way it works.

Companies bring products to broad markets; niche/hobbyists markets is a
different story.

Darrin's the in middle, he has the resources, but at the same time, he
also does not want to get stuck with the inventory, tying up his more
limited resources.

Prepaid gets the people out of the mix that say they'll buy it, but then
don't. It judges real demand from people willing to put up the capital
so the producer knows they're serious about purchasing.

All it takes is 2-3 overran projects for these small producers to not
even bother.

James Lewis

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:44:35 PM12/1/11
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I had no idea they sold the stand up. I assume they are NOS, there isnt
any reason to remake it if there are no stickers.

I would buy the sticker just to make my game complete.


--
James Lewis

John Wart, jr

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:48:51 PM12/1/11
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Right, unless it's completely missing and you need chase board, harness,
the metal trim piece, fasteners etc.

I'd do $300 on my game, considering the playfields were $800 and a new
set of ramps is $600, what's another $300? Not even talking boulders,
plastics, flipper rebuilds, star posts, etc. Expensive game to restore,
but in the course of things, what's another $300?


John Wart, jr

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:50:55 PM12/1/11
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On 12/1/2011 1:44 PM, James Lewis wrote:
> I had no idea they sold the stand up. I assume they are NOS, there isnt
> any reason to remake it if there are no stickers.
>
> I would buy the sticker just to make my game complete.
>
>

No, the plastic standup is new production. Treasurecove has a decal that
lacks the mirrored effect, which adds a lot to the game - but a TC decal
on the standup is better than nothing.

Beechwood

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:57:33 PM12/1/11
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Selling 250 should be reachable. US sales alone, that is only 5 per
state. Add in the rest of the world, I think it could happen.


--
Beechwood

Joel
HIOP
"Hey, Its Only Pinball!!"

seymour.shabow

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Dec 1, 2011, 2:19:22 PM12/1/11
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John Wart, jr wrote:
>
> I'd do $300 on my game, considering the playfields were $800 and a new
> set of ramps is $600, what's another $300? Not even talking boulders,
> plastics, flipper rebuilds, star posts, etc. Expensive game to restore,
> but in the course of things, what's another $300?
>

It's $300. I'll send you my address if you're giving away Triple Ben's. ;)

I tend to be more impressed with people that take what they have and
make it really nice on the cheap.

Bryan Kelly

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Dec 1, 2011, 2:12:28 PM12/1/11
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I've told Rick dozens of times, this is one part I think is really
needed. Not only are most wrinkled, but they're also faded badly.
I've got an NOS on mine and the colors really stand out.

I've restored 5 WH2O's in the last 2 years and I know all the owners
would have bought one, if they were available.

Start a preorder with a discounted preorder price and I'll take 5.
And I have no issue whatsoever with putting money down on something
like this seeing as it's you doing them, Darin. :-)

Bryan (CARGPB 14)
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins


On Dec 1, 9:51 am, darinjacobs <decalsa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> fell apart.
>
> Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> I welcome your feedback.
>
> Thanks
> Darin
>
> --
> darinjacobs
>
> PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> (decalsa...@comcast.net)

Bryan Kelly

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Dec 1, 2011, 2:14:54 PM12/1/11
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And we need the damn speaker panel remade also!! ;-)
On Dec 1, 1:12 pm, Bryan Kelly <bskel...@aol.com> wrote:
> I've told Rick dozens of times, this is one part I think is really
> needed.  Not only are most wrinkled, but they're also faded badly.
> I've got an NOS on mine and the colors really stand out.
>
> I've restored 5 WH2O's in the last 2 years and I know all the owners
> would have bought one, if they were available.
>
> Start a preorder with a discounted preorder price and I'll take 5.
> And I have no issue whatsoever with putting money down on something
> like this seeing as it's you doing them, Darin.  :-)
>
> Bryan (CARGPB 14)http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins
>
> On Dec 1, 9:51 am, darinjacobs <decalsa...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> > fell apart.
>
> > Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> > look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> > actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> > but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> > Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> > it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> > Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> > preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> > with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> > I welcome your feedback.
>
> > Thanks
> > Darin
>
> > --
> > darinjacobs
>
> > PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> > (decalsa...@comcast.net)
> > This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic

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Dec 1, 2011, 2:27:31 PM12/1/11
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Darin, you need to explain exactly what you're proposing to sell for
$200. Is it just the embossed foil sticker that affixes to the front
of the plastic backing? Is the larger background sticker included
with this? Or is it the entire assembly of plastic backing,
background sticker, and foil sticker?

Thanks,
Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic

Dave

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Dec 1, 2011, 2:28:20 PM12/1/11
to
On Dec 1, 11:12 am, Bryan Kelly <bskel...@aol.com> wrote:
> I've told Rick dozens of times, this is one part I think is really
> needed.  Not only are most wrinkled, but they're also faded badly.
> I've got an NOS on mine and the colors really stand out.
>
> I've restored 5 WH2O's in the last 2 years and I know all the owners
> would have bought one, if they were available.
>
> Start a preorder with a discounted preorder price and I'll take 5.
> And I have no issue whatsoever with putting money down on something
> like this seeing as it's you doing them, Darin.  :-)
>
> Bryan (CARGPB 14)http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins
>
> On Dec 1, 9:51 am, darinjacobs <decalsa...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> > fell apart.
>
> > Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> > look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> > actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> > but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> > Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> > it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> > Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> > preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> > with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> > I welcome your feedback.
>
> > Thanks
> > Darin
>
> > --
> > darinjacobs
>
> > PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> > (decalsa...@comcast.net)
> > This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com


I have a WH2O with a decal I repaired with the TC overlay. It looks
good but if I wish I had the option of a repro decal back then.
Selling 250 is a huge number, I can't imagine you will get that number
of pre-sales. But, have no fear pre-ordering from Darin. He made
arcade cocktail Ms Pacman and Galaga screen printed glass tops that I
thought could never get repro'ed!

Good luck with another needed repro item!

Chris

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Dec 1, 2011, 2:37:41 PM12/1/11
to
Have you thought about doing a kickstarter for this? Then you could
get the backing you need up front.

hugh

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Dec 1, 2011, 2:59:03 PM12/1/11
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kenny_ii;1832270 Wrote:
> I have to disagree about requiring prepayment. Sears doesn't require a
> prepayment to make your new TV. Hobby guys without resources may need
> deposits for funding, but companies bring products to market without
> deposits all the time, it's sort of the way it works.
>
> K2

You must be new to RGP. :) It has happened in the past where a new
product was announced, many people stepped up and said they would buy
one and when it came time to pay most backed up leaving the producer
with a lot of stock. It has happened multiple times. If people really
want this product they need to step up and pay.

If there was anyone that I know in this hobby that will get it done and
get it done properly its Darin. I think a prepay option is the only way
to go with such a high risk venture.

Hugh


--
hugh

ron ott

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Dec 1, 2011, 3:04:25 PM12/1/11
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Im in for 2

Hans

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Dec 1, 2011, 3:42:02 PM12/1/11
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>
> All it takes is 2-3 overran projects for these small producers to not
> even bother.

Or not having the financial ability to do anything else with all their
capital locked up in dead inventory. Just look at the guy who did the
Genesis reproduction ramps. He said they turned out great, I think he
sold them all pretty fast, and he's never going to do anything ever
again due to the complexity of it all. This sounds like a $10,000
project easily to get the toppers into production, so I can understand
why smaller guys are nervous about this one. It would be a whole
different story if the original embossing die was still around, since
that's probably 2/3 or so of the initial outlay. Tough call on the
pricing, as that's a big bite to try and recoup if the sales volume is
small.

I tried a few months ago to track down who may have done the
originals, but never had any luck finding out who the supplier was.

-Hans

CEllison

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Dec 1, 2011, 3:53:54 PM12/1/11
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Glad the business minded people jumped in to reaffirm the NEED for pre
orders. But yet how many complained when JJP took pre orders? heh heh
Anyway - as far as tracking down the original plate (whatever it's
called), Rick is a Williams rights holder - he should be able to
simply pick up the phone and call Williams and find out who did it and
go from there.
Well, in theory it sounds that easy. I would assume he has and hit a
dead end.

-=Chris=-

Hans

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Dec 1, 2011, 3:57:22 PM12/1/11
to

> Well, in theory it sounds that easy. I would assume he has and hit a
> dead end.
>
> -=Chris=-

What I've found is mostly hearsay and rumor, but apparently it was a
small vender that did them and the owner either passed away or cannot
be located. I'd have to search again to find where I put the info,
but I had found what I believe to be the original patent for the
lighting effect process. But I kept hitting dead ends, and eventually
drifted away from working on tracking it down. It doesn't look like
anybody else ever really used the process either.

-Hans

Planetary Pinball

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Dec 1, 2011, 4:27:51 PM12/1/11
to
We may go the route of an auction where the price for everyone goes down the
more people that are in, with a threshold to lock people in, so there is
upside the more people come in.

After the initial auction then the retail price will be higher than what
people paid to reward them for stepping up.

I'll discuss with Darin and hopefully we can get this sorted out.

rick




"darinjacobs" <decal...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:darinjaco...@rrgparchive.com...
>
> Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> fell apart.
>
> Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> I welcome your feedback.
>
> Thanks
> Darin
>
>
> --
> darinjacobs
>
> PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decal...@comcast.net'
> (decal...@comcast.net)

DrFurly

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Dec 1, 2011, 4:56:49 PM12/1/11
to
I agree that you need to be willing to put some skin in the game for
this type of project to get off the ground. Might I also suggest coming
up with a pre-order price that is targeted lower than the retail price
post production if it makes financial sense. 250 is a lot to break even
in such a specialized market, but it would be great if the community
came together on projects like this. That said, I would pre-order if
given the chance.


--
DrFurly

darinjacobs

unread,
Dec 1, 2011, 4:59:46 PM12/1/11
to

To answer some questions in prior posts here I go.

So there's no confusion about the name of the part, this is what we
would be making http://tinyurl.com/bu4n4zm

I have been in touch with the original artist Phillip Grear who says for
sure the plates are gone for good. I take him at his word and didnt
question them. New plates need to be made and he says he can do them but
attached a very hefty price tag to them. There is also a realtively new
process I've found through a company who says they can do this. Once we
get a little further with this Ill get some samples from them. I also
visited a company in PHX when I lived there that does this type of work
and seen samples in person. But it was quite pricey to do. We want to
target $200 and not go above it. That's the goal.

I have a spotless track record of preorders. Have done at least one a
year since 2000. If the project doesnt move forward for any reason all
monies are immediately refunded. Obviously the major benefit is to
reduce potential cash risks. If we have to make 500 we need to sell
approx 250 to break even. We wouldnt be asking for anything near that.
So we wouldnt be asking for a risk-free project. I would think 50
preorders would be a good number to shoot for. I asked for 50 FH decal
sets when that was my first pin project and we got almost 200! I wont be
a part of this without some type of preorder. Ive had too many money
losing projects over the years that Ive had to dump. These projects were
the type where people said biuld it and I will buy it, which of course
didnt happen. I also have preorder projects where I still lost my
behind. Btw, Im not SEARS.

I will talk to Rick about the speaker panels. I think these should be
done quickly and without a preorder.

Cheers

John Wart, jr

unread,
Dec 1, 2011, 10:11:05 PM12/1/11
to
I don't disagree with you there, I don't make a habit of replacing parts
to just replace parts, but I don't see any way to make this part really
nice short of replacing it. If you compared a used original to a NOS
part, there's a definite difference. And I bought the playfield because
it was *cheaper* to buy a new playfield than it was to have my original
restored professionally. My cabinet is beat to death, but I got an
original cabinet in a deal with another collector and will restore *an*
original lower cabinet for my machine.

My game has a *decent* used playfield in it. The original playfield was
replaced by the person I got the game from, because the original was
shot. Really shot.

White Water is a top 5 pin for me, I'm willing to spend a little more on
this one to make it really, really nice. But, I won't be replacing all
the coils, I won't be chroming anything that wasn't originally chrome, etc

Heck, on a recent project, I actually took the original flipper
plungers, and replaced the link and bushing on them. I did use a new
coil sleeve though :)


owlnonymous

unread,
Dec 1, 2011, 10:51:51 PM12/1/11
to
I'm in for one. Coming from someone with no topper, I've dreamed that
the rumors of this project would come true.

NM

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 12:49:49 AM12/2/11
to

darinjacobs;1832410 Wrote:
>
>
> I will talk to Rick about the speaker panels. I think these should be
> done quickly and without a preorder.
>
> Darin

How about a repro CFTBL hologram while you guys are in the zone?

:D


--
NM

Current: AFM, CFTBL, FGY, MB, NGG, SS, STTNG, TAF, ToM, TSPP, TZ, WH2O,
'54 Gottlieb Stage Coach.

RazerX

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 9:50:52 AM12/2/11
to
I'd be in for one.

Rob

On Dec 1, 3:59 pm, darinjacobs <decalsa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> To answer some questions in prior posts here I go.
>
> So there's no confusion about the name of the part, this is what we
> would be makinghttp://tinyurl.com/bu4n4zm
> PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> (decalsa...@comcast.net)

tktlwyr

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 10:29:36 AM12/2/11
to
On Dec 1, 10:51 am, darinjacobs <decalsa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> fell apart.
>
> Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> I welcome your feedback.
>
> Thanks
> Darin
>
> --
> darinjacobs
>
> PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> (decalsa...@comcast.net)
> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com

Paul in Gilroy

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 10:48:31 AM12/2/11
to
I'd pre-order a new one in a heartbeat if the price was no more than
$200. At $250, I'm asking myself whether or not it's worth it. My
existing one has a bubble.

Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 11:31:23 AM12/2/11
to
I'm in at $200 for the entire printed piece (exclusive of the plastic
backing) and would be willing to send that in as a refundable
deposit. I'm also interested in the Whitewater speaker panel.

Thanks,
Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic

kenny_ii

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 11:40:50 AM12/2/11
to

I still disagree with the basic prepayment idea. I have never asked for
a deposit for any Pinpoint board project from anyone, even when offered.
I am not wealthy and have to make compromises between personal and
pinball all the time. As an example, the Flash Gordon Strobe project
cost me over 4k to develop and produce. I suspect if I had asked for
deposits, I'd have gotten 8 to 10 and cancelled the project. I've sold
38 boards so far, and will eventually sell out the rest and hopefully
break even or make a few bucks.
As a small business, I believe it's up to me to get a product developed
and to market without asking my customers to foot the bill. If I can't
figure out how to not lose money on a product, it's on me, not my
customers.

To be clear, I'm not saying anything negative about Darin or the
project, I'd buy one as well, but requiring prepayment is a
philosophical difference in our business models.

As as an FYI, Pinpoint Electronics is soon to celebrate it's 6'th year
in the replacement pinball board business. Thank you to all those that
supported my efforts so far.
www.pinpointelec.com

K2 / Tim



hugh;1832339 Wrote:
> You must be new to RGP. :) It has happened in the past where a new
> product was announced, many people stepped up and said they would buy
> one and when it came time to pay most backed up leaving the producer
> with a lot of stock. It has happened multiple times. If people really
> want this product they need to step up and pay.
>
> If there was anyone that I know in this hobby that will get it done and
> get it done properly its Darin. I think a prepay option is the only way
> to go with such a high risk venture.
>
> Hugh


--
kenny_ii

James Lewis

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 11:57:50 AM12/2/11
to

Ill jump in and say I would buy one and I'm willing to give a deposit
but I have a suggestion. It would be nice if you would sell them already
applied to the stand up. I would have a REALLY hard time applying a $200
sticker being afraid I would screw it up. Seeing as most of the cost is
the tools to make them, the stickers themselves wouldn't cost that much
to replace if you screwed one up but I cant call and say I screwed it up
can I have another.


--
James Lewis

ldnayman

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 12:20:25 PM12/2/11
to
On Dec 1, 1:35 pm, kenny_ii <kenny_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have to disagree about requiring prepayment.  Sears doesn't require a
> prepayment to make your new TV.  Hobby guys without resources may need
> deposits for funding,  but companies bring products to market without
> deposits all the time, it's sort of the way it works.

This is a joke, right?

I'm pretty sure Sears isn't in the business of manufacturing niche
items only a few hundred people in the entire world will be interested
in.

Hardware

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 12:14:21 PM12/2/11
to
If this subject keeps momentum you'll be able to buy your WH2O topper
label without putting money down, you'll just get it after everyone
else at a higher cost which is cool if you are OK with it.

If I still had my WH2O I'd preorder that label for $200 with no
issues. I'd be glad to be a part of making it happen.

Anyone that truly wants this label should have no problem putting the
money down first. I can't agree with Hugh more.

-Brian

Jeff Rivera (jar155)

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 1:14:34 PM12/2/11
to
I'd pay $200 for a repro. that would be great.

darinjacobs

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 1:23:27 PM12/2/11
to

kenny_ii;1832827 Wrote:
> I still disagree with the basic prepayment idea. I have never asked for
> a deposit for any Pinpoint board project from anyone, even when offered.
> I am not wealthy and have to make compromises between personal and
> pinball all the time. As an example, the Flash Gordon Strobe project
> cost me over 4k to develop and produce. I suspect if I had asked for
> deposits, I'd have gotten 8 to 10 and cancelled the project. I've sold
> 38 boards so far, and will eventually sell out the rest and hopefully
> break even or make a few bucks.
> As a small business, I believe it's up to me to get a product developed
> and to market without asking my customers to foot the bill. If I can't
> figure out how to not lose money on a product, it's on me, not my
> customers.
>
> To be clear, I'm not saying anything negative about Darin or the
> project, I'd buy one as well, but requiring prepayment is a
> philosophical difference in our business models.
>
>

Well no one is being forced into preordering, it's optional and it does
make projects happen that otherwise wouldnt.

I do understand where you're coming from. However if we introduced a
preorder discount as I have many times before, your point is greatly
diminished imo.

I've been at this for 11 years with probably over 100 projects, many of
which would not happen withouth a preorder for such a niche market.
There's a reason no one else has stepped to make these and others. Too
much risk.


--
darinjacobs

PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decal...@comcast.net'
(decal...@comcast.net)

Duane

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 2:46:00 PM12/2/11
to
> PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> (decalsa...@comcast.net)
> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com

I'll take one

pinballace

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 5:34:27 PM12/2/11
to

Hey Darin,
Give me a shout. I'd be willing to fund the entire project with no
pre-orders. For the past 10 years Pinball Inc has funded over 60
projects which ranged from $4K to $40K (none using a pre-order) and with
very few exceptions the investment was worth it (as long as you don't
get involved with anyone from Bloomingidiotown, IL). This is a project
which I believe would be worth the investment and I just so happen to
have some fresh funds which were totally unexpected from a land
downunda.

James Loflin
Pinball Inc


--
pinballace

darinjacobs

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 9:03:06 PM12/2/11
to

pinballace;1833065 Wrote:
> Hey Darin,
> Give me a shout. I'd be willing to fund the entire project with no
> pre-orders. For the past 10 years Pinball Inc has funded over 60
> projects which ranged from $4K to $40K (none using a pre-order) and with
> very few exceptions the investment was worth it (as long as you don't
> get involved with anyone from Bloomingidiotown, IL). This is a project
> which I believe would be worth the investment and I just so happen to
> have some fresh funds which were totally unexpected from a land
> downunda.
>
> James Loflin
> Pinball Inc

LOL!

Let's talk on the tele when I return form Vegas next week James.


--
darinjacobs

PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decal...@comcast.net'
(decal...@comcast.net)

rjones

unread,
Dec 2, 2011, 10:34:30 PM12/2/11
to
On Dec 2, 9:03 pm, darinjacobs <decalsa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> pinballace;1833065 Wrote:
>
> > Hey Darin,
> > Give me a shout. I'd be willing to fund the entire project with no
> > pre-orders. For the past 10 years Pinball Inc has funded over 60
> > projects which ranged from $4K to $40K (none using a pre-order) and with
> > very few exceptions the investment was worth it (as long as you don't
> > get involved with anyone from Bloomingidiotown, IL). This is a project
> > which I believe would be worth the investment and I just so happen to
> > have some fresh funds which were totally unexpected from a land
> > downunda.
>
> > James Loflin
> > Pinball Inc
>
> LOL!
>
> Let's talk on the tele when I return form Vegas next week James.
>
> --
> darinjacobs
>
> PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> (decalsa...@comcast.net)
> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com

Sounds as though you guys are on the road to getting this done. I am
happy to pre-order or whatever you guys decide. I am in for at least
one.

Thanks for getting the ball rolling on this!

rjones

Pinball wizard

unread,
Dec 3, 2011, 8:37:57 AM12/3/11
to
I am in for one also.

Greg

John Bigbooty

unread,
Dec 5, 2011, 4:10:01 PM12/5/11
to
Count me as another who is in for one around $200. I'm willing to
pre-pay if necessary.

Mark
Atlanta GA

justin davino

unread,
Jan 11, 2012, 5:53:18 PM1/11/12
to
On 1 dec 2011, 16:51, darinjacobs <decalsa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> fell apart.
>
> Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> I welcome your feedback.
>
> Thanks
> Darin
>
> --
> darinjacobs
>
> PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> (decalsa...@comcast.net)
> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com

Count me in for two!

Jay

unread,
Jan 23, 2012, 12:44:42 PM1/23/12
to
Any further status on this, I am interested as well.

Thanks.

Bill

unread,
Jan 23, 2012, 2:42:45 PM1/23/12
to
+1 I'm intererested

Paul in Gilroy

unread,
Feb 7, 2012, 2:12:27 AM2/7/12