WHITEWATER TOPPER repro, in all seriousness

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darinjacobs

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Dec 1, 2011, 10:51:16 AM12/1/11
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Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
fell apart.

Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
but then maybe sell one every few months or so.

Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.

Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
with this. This is for the sign only.

I welcome your feedback.

Thanks
Darin


--
darinjacobs

PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decal...@comcast.net'
(decal...@comcast.net)
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

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Adam Becker

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:00:21 AM12/1/11
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I'll preorder one

On Dec 1, 10:51 am, darinjacobs <decalsa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> fell apart.
>
> Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> I welcome your feedback.
>
> Thanks
> Darin
>
> --
> darinjacobs
>
> PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> (decalsa...@comcast.net)

scubadentist

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:01:44 AM12/1/11
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On Dec 1, 9:51 am, darinjacobs <decalsa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> fell apart.
>
> Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> I welcome your feedback.
>
> Thanks
> Darin
>
> --
> darinjacobs
>
> PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> (decalsa...@comcast.net)
> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com

Well, I'd buy one for starters....
Message has been deleted

Pinster68

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:12:08 AM12/1/11
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darinjacobs;1832140 Wrote:
> Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> fell apart.
>
> Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> I welcome your feedback.
>
> Thanks
> Darin

To confirm for all ... we are talking just the decal for $200, right?


--
Pinster68

kickback

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:00:30 AM12/1/11
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I am very interested in a repro topper. Would this include the backing
plate as well as the decal? If so, I would think that you could easily
sell all 500 within six months, even if you had to resort to ebay
after you satisfied the rgp needs.

Why don't you have Rick open up pre-orders on his site and see what
the demand is?

CEllison

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:10:32 AM12/1/11
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I think the 250 mark is going to be extremely hard to hit in a short
time frame.
First thing I'd do is make it mandatory for pre-payment. If the
project falls through people get refunded. No one should squak about
that and if they do they aren't serious about wanting one anyway.
Honestly, I think you guys need to look at this as a long term
investment instead of a "hit and run" type scenario. Selling 500 is
completely doable considering all the topperless machines out there
but you need to plan on sitting on some for a couple years would be my
guess.
"Now watch the topper horders start dumping them on eBay to ensure
they don't lose money with new product coming out"

-=Chris=-
Message has been deleted

Taylorva

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:36:57 AM12/1/11
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I would buy one but 250 seems like a tall order.

I believe pinball inc. has the mold for the stand up plastic piece.


--
Taylorva

Homer Stevens

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:38:46 AM12/1/11
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Darin,
I think you could sell that many.A lot of games missing the topper and
A whole lot with bubbled and discolored toppers.
Homer

psk445

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:33:59 AM12/1/11
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I would be in for one.

Also, I think selling 250+ of them would be fairly easy at the $200
price point. It's not just people who are completely missing the
topper that would have a need for this, but would also include people
with faded toppers (common) or with damaged toppers (bubbled) and also
people that are doing high end restores.

Pacpin

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:52:19 AM12/1/11
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As much as i'd like to see this happen, realistically, 250 would be a
near impossible sale, let alone getting rid of the of the other 250.

Think about it, how many people on RGP even own a WH2O? And out of
that, how many NEED new toppers. I'd be surprised if you got even 50
orders out of the RGP group. So far you've got 6 people saying they
want one? That's a far cry from 250. So now you've got the remaining
200 to sell on ebay. Well what person that would spend 200 on a topper
isn't part of RGP or at least knows alot about pins? Not many. I'd
guess maybe 10-15 you could move on ebay. Then the orders would trickle
in after that. You might be better off to raise the price to 300.00 and
only have to move 100 units to break even.


--
Pacpin

NM

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Dec 1, 2011, 11:58:12 AM12/1/11
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I'd be in.


--
NM

Current: AFM, CFTBL, FGY, MB, NGG, SS, STTNG, TAF, ToM, TSPP, TZ, WH2O,
'54 Gottlieb Stage Coach.

psk445

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:00:55 PM12/1/11
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On Dec 1, 8:52 am, Pacpin <jml_...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Think about it, how many people on RGP even own a WH2O?  And out of
> that, how many NEED new toppers.

A LOT!

> So now you've got the remaining
> 200 to sell on ebay.  Well what person that would spend 200 on a topper
> isn't part of RGP or at least knows alot about pins?  Not many.

RGP is a very small percentage of the pinball community (albeit it's
the most active.) New WH20 toppers on eBay would sell like hotcakes
as you are now reaching the entire world of pinball owners and would
easily sell for $200+.

Amazingly this was actually a somewhat contributing post from you.


seymour.shabow

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:14:59 PM12/1/11
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darinjacobs wrote:
> Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> fell apart.
>
> Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> I welcome your feedback.

Prepaid preorder. History indicates lots of these projects are done
without this and the maker ends up stuck with them.

B.T.C.

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:04:13 PM12/1/11
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I would preorder one

pinballace

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:10:48 PM12/1/11
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kickback;1832148 Wrote:
> I am very interested in a repro topper. Would this include the
> backing
> plate as well as the decal? If so, I would think that you could
> easily
> sell all 500 within six months, even if you had to resort to ebay
> after you satisfied the rgp needs.
>
> Why don't you have Rick open up a pre-order on his site?

We've already made the backbox decal support so all that's left is the
decal. Please make the decal!


--
pinballace

Hans

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:13:14 PM12/1/11
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I think that $200 may be a bit prohibitive to be honest. Even without
the topper, it's already an expensive machine to restore given the
cost of the ramps.
Then add in another $125 or so for the dome and stand of course, and
it's $325 for everything.

You'd sell some in the initial frenzy for people that really want
one, but it's not low enough for folks like myself who have decently
passable toppers already.

-Hans


Message has been deleted

scottself

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:45:31 PM12/1/11
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Having experienced first hand (at Big Time Cabinets) the tendency of
buyers to fade away once a product is released, I would say go the
pre-order route.

That being said, I am definitely in for one!


--
scottself

James Lewis

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:50:09 PM12/1/11
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If we are talking just the decal..... no. If we are talking the decal
with the plastic standup I would probably be in IF I could buy the
plastic dome to go over it. When I bought mine I chose a complete
mountain set over a topper having no idea that the silly topper would
lower the value that much. I care not, it doesnt make the game any less
fun.


--
James Lewis

bakas...@yahoo.com

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Dec 1, 2011, 12:54:56 PM12/1/11
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Count me in for one! Totally willing to pre-pay for one too. My
machine has a topper but it has seen better days.

Brian

psk445

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:06:28 PM12/1/11
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HUH?

Dome:
http://mad-amusements.com/product.php?id_product=458

Plastic Stand:
http://mad-amusements.com/product.php?id_product=1689

New Decal:
TBD

Complete brand new topper = $300

On Dec 1, 9:50 am, James Lewis <zr11...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

ChevelleSSguy

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:11:18 PM12/1/11
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If your looking to make your money back or break even right off the
bat. Thats probably not going to happen. If your looking to sell them
all, it might take a little bit but they will certainly sell. I had no
idea these werent being made actually. It sounds like a lot of people
need them. If you post a presale here on RGP, KLOV, Pinside, Ebay,
Craigslist, and all the other classifieds out there you can find. You
should be fine.

kenny_ii

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:35:01 PM12/1/11
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I have to disagree about requiring prepayment. Sears doesn't require a
prepayment to make your new TV. Hobby guys without resources may need
deposits for funding, but companies bring products to market without
deposits all the time, it's sort of the way it works.

K2
--
kenny_ii

seymour.shabow

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:56:03 PM12/1/11
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kenny_ii wrote:
> I have to disagree about requiring prepayment. Sears doesn't require a
> prepayment to make your new TV. Hobby guys without resources may need
> deposits for funding, but companies bring products to market without
> deposits all the time, it's sort of the way it works.

Companies bring products to broad markets; niche/hobbyists markets is a
different story.

Darrin's the in middle, he has the resources, but at the same time, he
also does not want to get stuck with the inventory, tying up his more
limited resources.

Prepaid gets the people out of the mix that say they'll buy it, but then
don't. It judges real demand from people willing to put up the capital
so the producer knows they're serious about purchasing.

All it takes is 2-3 overran projects for these small producers to not
even bother.

James Lewis

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:44:35 PM12/1/11
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I had no idea they sold the stand up. I assume they are NOS, there isnt
any reason to remake it if there are no stickers.

I would buy the sticker just to make my game complete.


--
James Lewis

John Wart, jr

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:48:51 PM12/1/11
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Right, unless it's completely missing and you need chase board, harness,
the metal trim piece, fasteners etc.

I'd do $300 on my game, considering the playfields were $800 and a new
set of ramps is $600, what's another $300? Not even talking boulders,
plastics, flipper rebuilds, star posts, etc. Expensive game to restore,
but in the course of things, what's another $300?


John Wart, jr

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:50:55 PM12/1/11
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On 12/1/2011 1:44 PM, James Lewis wrote:
> I had no idea they sold the stand up. I assume they are NOS, there isnt
> any reason to remake it if there are no stickers.
>
> I would buy the sticker just to make my game complete.
>
>

No, the plastic standup is new production. Treasurecove has a decal that
lacks the mirrored effect, which adds a lot to the game - but a TC decal
on the standup is better than nothing.

Beechwood

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Dec 1, 2011, 1:57:33 PM12/1/11
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Selling 250 should be reachable. US sales alone, that is only 5 per
state. Add in the rest of the world, I think it could happen.


--
Beechwood

Joel
HIOP
"Hey, Its Only Pinball!!"

seymour.shabow

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Dec 1, 2011, 2:19:22 PM12/1/11
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John Wart, jr wrote:
>
> I'd do $300 on my game, considering the playfields were $800 and a new
> set of ramps is $600, what's another $300? Not even talking boulders,
> plastics, flipper rebuilds, star posts, etc. Expensive game to restore,
> but in the course of things, what's another $300?
>

It's $300. I'll send you my address if you're giving away Triple Ben's. ;)

I tend to be more impressed with people that take what they have and
make it really nice on the cheap.

Bryan Kelly

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Dec 1, 2011, 2:12:28 PM12/1/11
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I've told Rick dozens of times, this is one part I think is really
needed. Not only are most wrinkled, but they're also faded badly.
I've got an NOS on mine and the colors really stand out.

I've restored 5 WH2O's in the last 2 years and I know all the owners
would have bought one, if they were available.

Start a preorder with a discounted preorder price and I'll take 5.
And I have no issue whatsoever with putting money down on something
like this seeing as it's you doing them, Darin. :-)

Bryan (CARGPB 14)
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins


On Dec 1, 9:51 am, darinjacobs <decalsa...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> fell apart.
>
> Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> I welcome your feedback.
>
> Thanks
> Darin
>
> --
> darinjacobs
>
> PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> (decalsa...@comcast.net)

Bryan Kelly

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Dec 1, 2011, 2:14:54 PM12/1/11
to
And we need the damn speaker panel remade also!! ;-)
On Dec 1, 1:12 pm, Bryan Kelly <bskel...@aol.com> wrote:
> I've told Rick dozens of times, this is one part I think is really
> needed.  Not only are most wrinkled, but they're also faded badly.
> I've got an NOS on mine and the colors really stand out.
>
> I've restored 5 WH2O's in the last 2 years and I know all the owners
> would have bought one, if they were available.
>
> Start a preorder with a discounted preorder price and I'll take 5.
> And I have no issue whatsoever with putting money down on something
> like this seeing as it's you doing them, Darin.  :-)
>
> Bryan (CARGPB 14)http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins
>
> On Dec 1, 9:51 am, darinjacobs <decalsa...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> > fell apart.
>
> > Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> > look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> > actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> > but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> > Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> > it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> > Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> > preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> > with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> > I welcome your feedback.
>
> > Thanks
> > Darin
>
> > --
> > darinjacobs
>
> > PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> > (decalsa...@comcast.net)
> > This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic

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Dec 1, 2011, 2:27:31 PM12/1/11
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Darin, you need to explain exactly what you're proposing to sell for
$200. Is it just the embossed foil sticker that affixes to the front
of the plastic backing? Is the larger background sticker included
with this? Or is it the entire assembly of plastic backing,
background sticker, and foil sticker?

Thanks,
Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic

Dave

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Dec 1, 2011, 2:28:20 PM12/1/11
to
On Dec 1, 11:12 am, Bryan Kelly <bskel...@aol.com> wrote:
> I've told Rick dozens of times, this is one part I think is really
> needed.  Not only are most wrinkled, but they're also faded badly.
> I've got an NOS on mine and the colors really stand out.
>
> I've restored 5 WH2O's in the last 2 years and I know all the owners
> would have bought one, if they were available.
>
> Start a preorder with a discounted preorder price and I'll take 5.
> And I have no issue whatsoever with putting money down on something
> like this seeing as it's you doing them, Darin.  :-)
>
> Bryan (CARGPB 14)http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/bspins
>
> On Dec 1, 9:51 am, darinjacobs <decalsa...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Was close to getting this off the ground until my partnership with Gene
> > fell apart.
>
> > Was talking with Rick (BAA) last night and we are going to take another
> > look at getting these done. Our main concern is how many people would
> > actually buy them? We think we could sell 20 out of the gate around $200
> > but then maybe sell one every few months or so.
>
> > Because new handmade plates have to be made we need to run 500 to make
> > it cost effective. Which means we need to sell 250 just to break even.
>
> > Do you think we could sell that many? How would you feel about doing a
> > preorder to make this happen? Testing the waters before we go further
> > with this. This is for the sign only.
>
> > I welcome your feedback.
>
> > Thanks
> > Darin
>
> > --
> > darinjacobs
>
> > PM's turned off. Please email me directly at 'decalsa...@comcast.net'
> > (decalsa...@comcast.net)
> > This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com


I have a WH2O with a decal I repaired with the TC overlay. It looks
good but if I wish I had the option of a repro decal back then.
Selling 250 is a huge number, I can't imagine you will get that number
of pre-sales. But, have no fear pre-ordering from Darin. He made
arcade cocktail Ms Pacman and Galaga screen printed glass tops that I
thought could never get repro'ed!

Good luck with another needed repro item!

Chris

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Dec 1, 2011, 2:37:41 PM12/1/11