Fixing Zaccaria Space Shuttle startup

[gjou...@gmail.com]

I'm trying to fix a Zaccaria Space Shuttle.
Power board is ok, CPU board passes LEON test, Eproms have been changed.
Now, at start up, the point displays show 99 and the ball to play display shows 08 then 13. Then the displays turn off and nothing reacts.
What can I look at now?

Thanks

Guillaume

[c...@provide.net]

The displays are all interchangeable, except there are jumpers
to signify which display is credit, player1 etc etc. there is
also a high score display too! (total of 6 displays on this game.)
They all connect via a ribbon cable (that connects to the
sound board too.) But you can have they mixed up and it does not
matter (the game doesn't care). But it freaks you out if they
are in the wrong position.

i'm going by memory, but jumper1 = player1. jumper5=credit,
jumper6=high score. these jumpers are on the display boards.
double check you have everything in the right spot.

then you need to make sure you have a good battery!
gen1 zaccaria games don't play nice with a dead battery.
personally i use a coin style battery with a diode to
replace the original rechargeable nicad battery.

with a good battery, hold the momentary switch down
on the MPU board, and power the game up. this will
clear the audits and empty the memory. using the coin
door switch, go thru the audits/adjustments and
make changes (per manual.)

after that, you should be ready to go!
more info here:

http://www.pinrepair.com/zac

[gjou...@gmail.com]

The flipper programming board is not enough to set the options at startup (the battery is not replaced yet).
I will as a battery and test it.

[gjou...@gmail.com]

Now the new battery is in place, I let it charge about 5 minutes.
I tried to power up with MPU board switch hold, and nothing better happened.
Pinrepair didn't give me help on it.
Does anybody have another idea ?

Regards

[David Gersic]

On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 03:54:26 -0700 (PDT), c...@provide.net <c...@provide.net> wrote:
> On Monday, October 23, 2017 at 6:09:08 AM UTC-4, gjou...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I'm trying to fix a Zaccaria Space Shuttle.
>> Power board is ok, CPU board passes LEON test, Eproms have been changed.
>> Now, at start up, the point displays show 99 and the ball to play display shows 08 then 13. Then the displays turn off and nothing reacts.
>> What can I look at now?
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Guillaume
>
> The displays are all interchangeable, except there are jumpers
> to signify which display is credit, player1 etc etc. there is
> also a high score display too! (total of 6 displays on this game.)
> They all connect via a ribbon cable (that connects to the
> sound board too.) But you can have they mixed up and it does not
> matter (the game doesn't care). But it freaks you out if they
> are in the wrong position.
>
> i'm going by memory, but jumper1 = player1. jumper5=credit,
> jumper6=high score. these jumpers are on the display boards.
> double check you have everything in the right spot.

Correct, but it doesn't sound like this board is booting, so
the order of the displays isn't going to matter much.

> then you need to make sure you have a good battery!
> gen1 zaccaria games don't play nice with a dead battery.
> personally i use a coin style battery with a diode to
> replace the original rechargeable nicad battery.

The board will boot with or without a good battery. With no settings,
you should get the displays alternating between all 6s and all 9s. If
you have the "programming" board attached, it should read that for
default settings if the RAM contents are invalid.

> with a good battery, hold the momentary switch down
> on the MPU board, and power the game up. this will
> clear the audits and empty the memory. using the coin
> door switch, go thru the audits/adjustments and
> make changes (per manual.)

The momentary switch doesn't do that. It's only used to enable setup
from the coin door. There is a "memory reset" feature, which may be
useful if the contents of the 5101 are scrambled, but I've rarely found
that to be enough to keep the board from booting.

The other change is a "clear CMOS RAM" feature where the game will
ignore and clear the contents of the 5101 if it is powered up with
TP19 (Switch Matrix Row 1) connected to TP20 (Switch Matrix Column 0).

> after that, you should be ready to go!
> more info here:
>
> http://www.pinrepair.com/zac

And lots more on my web site...


--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |
| Murphy's Fifth Corollary: Every solution breeds new problems. |
| Email address is a spam trap. Visit the web site for contact info. |

[David Gersic]

On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 03:08:58 -0700 (PDT), gjou...@gmail.com <gjou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to fix a Zaccaria Space Shuttle.
> Power board is ok, CPU board passes LEON test, Eproms have been changed.

EPROMs have been changed ... to what? Space Shuttle should have a 2716 in
IC1 and 4 x 2708s in IC2-5. Not too many people can burn 2708s these days.
If you're converting the board to something other than 2708s, that's an
important detail.

It may have come with a masked PROM in IC1. If so, you'll need to jumper it
for a 2716 if you're replacing it. Have you verified the jumpers are correct?

> Now, at start up, the point displays show 99 and the ball to play display shows 08 then 13. Then the displays turn off and nothing reacts.
> What can I look at now?

It doesn't sound like the board is booting and running correctly. Gen1 boards
are kind of a challenge that way. There's no real on-board tests or diagnostics.
It either boots and runs, or it doesn't. Leon's test ROM is interesting, but
can pass a board that isn't actually working.

--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |

| Your sperm's in the gutter, your love's in the sink. |

[David Gersic]

On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 10:35:20 -0700 (PDT), gjou...@gmail.com <gjou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The flipper programming board is not enough to set the options at startup (the battery is not replaced yet).

It is. But it won't make the board boot, or fail to boot.

--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |

| A woman's favorite position is CEO. |

[David Gersic]

On Mon, 23 Oct 2017 14:41:22 -0700 (PDT), gjou...@gmail.com <gjou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Now the new battery is in place, I let it charge about 5 minutes.
> I tried to power up with MPU board switch hold, and nothing better happened.

The button on the board isn't going to do anything at this point, you can
ignore it.

> Pinrepair didn't give me help on it.
> Does anybody have another idea ?

Without wanting to blow my own horn too loudly, I repair these boards. You
may just want to send it to me and let me figure it out. There are some
failures that I see somewhat regularly, but not enough to be able to just
say "oh, change X and it'll be fine".

--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |

| Give a man a free hand and he'll run it all over you. -- Mae West |

[gjou...@gmail.com]

Thank you David for the proposal, but from France it's less easy.
I replaced all the EPROMs with 2716s by adding modified media for IC2-3-4-5.
For IC1, the jumpers are correct.
For information, there was no battery leakage and therefore no repair of this type.
I followed the steps of your site, with the oscilloscope, I have the reset, changes on the address bus (I tested all the supports and the bus is well connected).
There's probably a step that stops him from continuing, but I can't see which one.

Regards

[gjou...@gmail.com]

I mean modified socket not media (as seen on http://www.pinrepair.com/zac/ "Converting One 2708 socket to 2716").

[David Gersic]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 00:43:21 -0700 (PDT), gjou...@gmail.com <gjou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you David for the proposal, but from France it's less easy.

I ship world wide.

> I replaced all the EPROMs with 2716s by adding modified media for IC2-3-4-5.

Which way is the board modified for 2716s? I recently worked on one where it was
modified incorrectly, effectively disabling the ROMs from being read.

Also, since you have a 'scope, check to see what the ripple is on the 5V rail. I
had a modified board here a while back that looked ok with only one ROM installed,
but with each one I added, the ripple got worse to the point where it wouldn't
boot. I converted that one back to 2708s, and it ran fine.

> For IC1, the jumpers are correct.

Ok, worth double checking.

> For information, there was no battery leakage and therefore no repair of this type.

Wow. That's unusual.

> I followed the steps of your site, with the oscilloscope, I have the reset, changes on the address bus (I tested all the supports and the bus is well connected).
> There's probably a step that stops him from continuing, but I can't see which one.

That's the fun of working on a Gen1 board. There are several things that
can be going wrong, all with the same or similar symptoms.

--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |

| Emulate: (v.) to simulate hardware glitches with software bugs. |

[David Gersic]

On Tue, 24 Oct 2017 01:32:58 -0700 (PDT), gjou...@gmail.com <gjou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I mean modified socket not media (as seen on http://www.pinrepair.com/zac/ "Converting One 2708 socket to 2716").

Looks like that should work. Haven't tested it myself, but the socket
modification appears to be correct.

--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |

| Wizard Guild parking ONLY - violators WILL be toad! |

[gjou...@gmail.com]

The 5V rail look very clean and second checking of jumpers seems ok too.
Here is a pdf with waveforms of test point
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B293W73zqmknN0IzNERjUTY2NEE
I haven't found any source to compare all of them, could you give me your opinion ?

Thanks a lot

Guillaume

[gjou...@gmail.com]

Looking at why TP18 was always high, I discovered modifications to the CPU board. I think it was modified for a Locomotion and refurbished for the Space Shuttle. Repair on IC11 pin 6 track,"fresh" soldering on J2/1 (jumper for ROM3 are restored properly).

[David Gersic]

On Wed, 25 Oct 2017 13:42:34 -0700 (PDT), gjou...@gmail.com <gjou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Looking at why TP18 was always high, I discovered modifications to the CPU board. I think it was modified for a Locomotion and refurbished for the Space Shuttle. Repair on IC11 pin 6 track,"fresh" soldering on J2/1 (jumper for ROM3 are restored properly).

Ah, yes, that would cause no end of confusion. Remove the Locomotion
modifications (two wire patches), repair the cut trace, set the jumpers
correctly, and try it again.

--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |

| Moderators are not God. God has mercy. |

[gjou...@gmail.com]

Le samedi 28 octobre 2017 06:05:15 UTC+2, David Gersic a écrit :
> Ah, yes, that would cause no end of confusion. Remove the Locomotion
> modifications (two wire patches), repair the cut trace, set the jumpers
> correctly, and try it again.
>
> --
> | David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |
> | Moderators are not God. God has mercy. |
> | Email address is a spam trap. Visit the web site for contact info. |

The two wires are removed, IC11 pin 6 is connected to IC39 pin 12 and all jumpers are in accordance with the table on your website (ROM1 2716 and ROM3 2708).
I think one of my problems is with the pulse generator.
If I understand correctly, if IC39 pin 5 has a top to bottom transition, IC39 pin 6 generates a high level pulse. The first transition is caused by the reset signal and then the output pulse should self-supply, but as IC39 6 remains high.
I replaced IC22 who was no longer doing what I expected and IC39 as well.
Where can this permanent high level come from?

[David Gersic]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2017 23:53:22 -0700 (PDT), gjou...@gmail.com <gjou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Le samedi 28 octobre 2017 06:05:15 UTC+2, David Gersic a écrit :
>> Ah, yes, that would cause no end of confusion. Remove the Locomotion
>> modifications (two wire patches), repair the cut trace, set the jumpers
>> correctly, and try it again.
>>

> The two wires are removed, IC11 pin 6 is connected to IC39 pin 12 and all jumpers are in accordance with the table on your website (ROM1 2716 and ROM3 2708).

Ok, good.

> I think one of my problems is with the pulse generator.

Could be. That can be a problem area. Are the capacitors good?

> If I understand correctly, if IC39 pin 5 has a top to bottom transition, IC39 pin 6 generates a high level pulse. The first transition is caused by the reset signal and then the output pulse should self-supply, but as IC39 6 remains high.
> I replaced IC22 who was no longer doing what I expected and IC39 as well.
> Where can this permanent high level come from?

There are IC22 and IC23 in there as well. Are you getting a pulse at IC29
pin 1 (RESET)?

--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |

|I am 99.99999512% sure PGP doesn't use any floating point. - P. Zimmerman|

[gjou...@gmail.com]

Hi

My mistake.
I did the LEON test again and I finally have the following outputs that remain fixed:
IC34 pin 7,9,12,14
IC40 pin 1
IC41 pin 1,7,12,14
I don't see what would connect these anomalies.
About the reset pulse, I've got it.

Guillaume

[gjou...@gmail.com]

Hello

Now only problems with IC34 pin 7,9,12,14 remains.
Memory test and input are all ok.
I've changed IC21 to a new 5101 but it still doesn't work.

Regards

Guillaume

[gjou...@gmail.com]

Hi

Now IC34 pin 12,14 looks OK.
It remains problem on pin 7 and 9.
I've checked IC21 pin 10 and 12, but there is no moving signal.
IC20 is a new one, so I can't find which IC could do this problem.

If anyone can ...
Thanks

Guillaume