Ever wonder what happens to all them old computers we send to China?

[GPE]

Well... they're coming back to us one counterfeit piece at a time.
Beware of what you are buying on ebay as the Chinese have nearly taken over
the electronic components section.

Here's one page of >tens of thousands< of counterfeit items listed on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-IC-ALLEGRO-DIP-18-UDN6118A-UDN6118A-1-UDN6118A-2-/250993268706?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a705d57e2

or here:

http://tinyurl.com/855s8u2

You'll note that these wonders are marked new with 0418 date codes. 18th
week of 2004 which is nearly two years -after- Allegro discontinued them.

You can also find some black topped MC6821P's from Freescale with 1112 date
codes. Sorry, Motorola dropped these several years ago - long, long before
becoming Freescale.
And Rockwell R6532P's with 0440 and 1019 date codes... uh, huh.

There are some decent parts listed but suspect ANYTHING from the Chinese
sellers.

Ed

[Classic Arcades Inc.]

I got stung on a bulk purchase of TMS2532's. The Date code was
December 2007. I knew I was in trouble when I started taking them out
of the tubes. Texas Instruments stopped making them 10+ years prior to
my date code. Hey China, If you are going to counter fit the chips at
least put a date code from the 80's. Sure enough My programmer took a
crap when I installed them in my special adapter to program 2532's. I
think they just print whatever the hot IC is at the time on the chip
they "scrub".. I was told back in 2003 when PIA's and CPU's were
getting hard to find that they were scrubbing 40 pin chips and simply
printing motorola 6821 part numbers on them same with the 6803 CPU. A
friend of mine who go burned on the 6803's sent some out for
verification and were shocked to find that when they were x-rayed the
one chip did not even come close to matching the 6803 finger print and
several others were just "blank" silicone with 40 pins on them

DOUBLE BUYER BEWARE ON RARE OBSOLETE PARTS THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN SHOW
UP FROM AN UNKNOWN SOURCE

Jeff
Classic Arcades Inc.

On May 23, 2:14 am, "GPE" <GPE_NoSpamPle...@cox.net> wrote:
> Well... they're coming back to us one counterfeit piece at a time.
> Beware of what you are buying on ebay as the Chinese have nearly taken over
> the electronic components section.
>

> Here's one page of >tens of thousands< of counterfeit items listed on ebay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-IC-ALLEGRO-DIP-18-UDN6118A-UDN6118A-1-UD...

[Tim O]

On Wed, 23 May 2012 01:14:29 -0500, "GPE" <GPE_NoSp...@cox.net>
wrote:

"So that we can avoide make mistake"

LOL

[MrBally]

On May 23, 2:14 am, "GPE" <GPE_NoSpamPle...@cox.net> wrote:

> Well... they're coming back to us one counterfeit piece at a time.
> Beware of what you are buying on ebay as the Chinese have nearly taken over
> the electronic components section.
>

> Here's one page of >tens of thousands< of counterfeit items listed on ebay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-IC-ALLEGRO-DIP-18-UDN6118A-UDN6118A-1-UD...

>
> or here:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/855s8u2
>
> You'll note that these wonders are marked new with 0418 date codes.  18th
> week of 2004 which is nearly two years -after- Allegro discontinued them.
>
> You can also find some black topped MC6821P's from Freescale with 1112 date
> codes.  Sorry, Motorola dropped these several years ago - long, long before
> becoming Freescale.
> And Rockwell R6532P's with 0440 and 1019 date codes...  uh, huh.
>
> There are some decent parts listed but suspect ANYTHING from the Chinese
> sellers.
>
> Ed

This is a rare case where paypal comes in really handy. Get even with
those chink bastards. I apologize to any Chinese Americans who I may
have offended.

[pin_w...@hotmail.com]

On May 23, 2:14 am, "GPE" <GPE_NoSpamPle...@cox.net> wrote:

> Well... they're coming back to us one counterfeit piece at a time.
> Beware of what you are buying on ebay as the Chinese have nearly taken over
> the electronic components section.
>

> Here's one page of >tens of thousands< of counterfeit items listed on ebay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-IC-ALLEGRO-DIP-18-UDN6118A-UDN6118A-1-UD...

>
> or here:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/855s8u2
>
> You'll note that these wonders are marked new with 0418 date codes.  18th
> week of 2004 which is nearly two years -after- Allegro discontinued them.
>
> You can also find some black topped MC6821P's from Freescale with 1112 date
> codes.  Sorry, Motorola dropped these several years ago - long, long before
> becoming Freescale.
> And Rockwell R6532P's with 0440 and 1019 date codes...  uh, huh.
>
> There are some decent parts listed but suspect ANYTHING from the Chinese
> sellers.
>
> Ed

Agreed, this problem is a modern-day Trojan horse.

[Jon]

You sure they are not reworking them in to cheap knockoff Air Jordans
to sell to unsuspecting pinball folk.

[nwojedi]

if there discontinued, isn't it good someone is making them?


--
nwojedi

* C a p t a i n N e o *
Pinball Playfield restoration service at:
_www.Captainneo.com (\"http://www.captainneo.com\")__:D
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

[TheKorn]

nwojedi <nwo...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:nwojedi...@rrgparchive.com:

> if there discontinued, isn't it good someone is making them?

I think the point of the post is that nobody is making them, thus they must be
conterfeit remarks.

--
Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the web or on
DVD?

http://www.webwidevideo.com/

[Terry Cumming]

I bought a cheap USB stick from China a couple of years ago. It did
not work properly in any PC. I tried to recover my money. By this time
eBay had already suspended the seller. I had to mail the item back
with a signature.

It was funny as eBay provided me the seller's address in Chinese only.
I said, "how am I supposed to mail this from here, I need regular
lettering?". They told me to use a translator service. I gave up as
the cost of shipping it registered would have exceeded the part cost.
And who knows where I was really sending it to?

However, most of my cheap Chinese purchases have been fine.

Terry Cumming

[G-P-E]

TheKorn;1944386 Wrote:
> nwojedi <nwo...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:nwojedi.5d11vw (AT)
> rrgparchive (DOT) com:

>
> > if there discontinued, isn't it good someone is making them?
>
> I think the point of the post is that nobody is making them, thus they
> must be
> conterfeit remarks.
>
> --
> Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on
> the web or on
> DVD?
>
> http://www.webwidevideo.com/

Exactly.
*Nobody* is making these unobtainable parts. They are removing old IC's
from old PC boards using blow torches and coffee cans then sorting the
removed IC's by pin counts and case styles. Actual part number and
manufacturer doesn't matter as long as the IC "looks" to be correct.
They then clean and straighten the legs, sand and/or black-top the part
to remove original part marking and re-mark the part with whatever IC
part number is getting the best prices this week. Of course, the
counterfeiters are stupid enough to think that the buyer always wants
the newest of parts so they normally put on recent date codes regardless
as to when the part was discontinued. You may be paying for what looks
like a UDN6118A... but the IC, internally, is actually something such as
the inexpensive ULN2803 or nearly anything else. In some documented
cases, the parts actually contain -nothing-. Just empty IC's with no
internal die. Part looks good, price is right... Plug it in, huh -
nothing works.

FYI --
Allegro UDN6118A's shouldn't have date codes beyond about 0210 or the
10th week of 2002.

What I'm doing is just trying to toss out a warning to scrutinize the
parts if the source is questionable.

Ed


--
G-P-E

[flyer666]

GPE;1944293 Wrote:
> Well... they're coming back to us one counterfeit piece at a time.
> Beware of what you are buying on ebay as the Chinese have nearly taken
> over
> the electronic components section.
>
> Here's one page of >tens of thousands< of counterfeit items listed on
> ebay:

> http://tinyurl.com/855s8u2

>
> or here:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/855s8u2
>
>
>
> You'll note that these wonders are marked new with 0418 date codes. 18th
>
> week of 2004 which is nearly two years -after- Allegro discontinued
> them.
>
> You can also find some black topped MC6821P's from Freescale with 1112
> date
> codes. Sorry, Motorola dropped these several years ago - long, long
> before
> becoming Freescale.
> And Rockwell R6532P's with 0440 and 1019 date codes... uh, huh.
>
> There are some decent parts listed but suspect ANYTHING from the Chinese
>
> sellers.
>
> Ed

I have to hand it to them...Recycling...


I buy these types of chips all the time and no problem. Hell give them a
part number and they will hunt them down for you.


--
flyer666

[cal50]

I needed an obscure (by today's standards) display chip for my SkeeBall
display.

UNCN583A

Skeeball had them but wanted $55 a pop or they would sell you a new LED
display for a couple hundred. I found the chip I needed off of fleabay
(from China) for about 1/2 and ordered one. Luckily it worked.

It was a common chip made in the thousands and I am sure its NOS or a
damn good pull job. I would be very wary if you looking for an expensive
but less common chip from across the pond.

That same chip is listed on ebay from a Wizard Amusement for only $73+
$6 shipping. They must have purchased the ones I did not take....

http://fwd4.me/11Ks


I think I would change the socket before paying those prices.


--
cal50

RGP Archive and posting Gateway

[Compute]

G-P-E;1944402 Wrote:
> Exactly.
> *Nobody* is making these unobtainable parts. They are removing old IC's
> from old PC boards using blow torches and coffee cans then sorting the
> removed IC's by pin counts and case styles.

> Ed

That sounds a lot more work than is necessary. We deal with counterfeit
parts where I work, and they're typically harder to distinguish than
that. Why use that much labor when you could probably buy damn near
18-pin DIP brand new for cheaper than the cost of doing all that work.
It's not just DIPs they're doing it with, either. QFNs, even BGAs can
be faked. It's not us hobbyists they're after, it's companies like the
one I work for. We buy stuff in reels and tubes and trays, thousands at
a time. That is where the money is.


--
Compute

[G-P-E]

Compute;1944454 Wrote:
> That sounds a lot more work than is necessary. We deal with counterfeit
> parts where I work, and they're typically harder to distinguish than
> that. Why use that much labor when you could probably buy damn near
> 18-pin DIP brand new for cheaper than the cost of doing all that work.
> It's not just DIPs they're doing it with, either. QFNs, even BGAs can
> be faked. It's not us hobbyists they're after, it's companies like the
> one I work for. We buy stuff in reels and tubes and trays, thousands at
> a time. That is where the money is.

We deal with counterfeit parts at work as well. Our lawyers have
actually gone after the counterfeiters on ebay but have pretty much
given up after endless filings, Ebay will yank the auction only to have
it reappear a day or two later.
Some manufacturers actually watch ebay for fakes. Some companies such
as Motorola and it's spinoffs apparently don't give a damn.

For users of newer parts, it is much harder to spot fakes. Even the
laser etched parts have pretty good fakes showing up.
But, for us on RGP where we use parts in which have been discontinued
for years, it isn't so hard to spot them. And, they do counterfeit most
everything... but most of us in RGP also don't use the other package
styles.

As for the counterfeitrs actually using this procedure to get parts. Yes
- they actually DO use this method. I have watched a documentary on
this where they show the whole beginning to end process. They get old
boards in, run them over torches to melt the solder then bang the boards
on coffee cans to collect the parts. They have other groups of people
that do nothing but sort parts. And other that do nothing more than
pretty them up.
Gotta remember, labor there is nothing. It costs less there for the
labor for reclaiming old parts than to buy brand new even if the new are
blanks.

You never know what you will get from them. Some of the parts are
recycled garbage guaranteed not to work. Some of the parts are
manufacturer rejects that were supposed to be scrapped but weren't.
Some of the parts are remarked slower or lower voltage/current versions
where they pass them off as a faster or more capable part. Once in a
while - you actually get what you wanted. It's a crap shoot. Some
people will actually gamble with purchasing these parts with hopes that
they will get parts that will work. They might but that's up to them.
I just think it's immoral to send them any money for parts that are
misrepresented.

Some people think this doesn't hurt anybody. Try explaining that to the
family of the victims in a recent helicopter crash which was attributed
to counterfeit components.


--
G-P-E

[G-P-E]

Compute;1944454 Wrote:
> That sounds a lot more work than is necessary. ... Why use that much

> labor when you could probably buy damn near 18-pin DIP brand new for

> cheaper than the cost of doing all that work. ...


Here's just one video.

http://youtu.be/5vN_7NJ4qYA


--
G-P-E

[Hans]

With such a market for fakes like these, it always makes me wonder why
legitimate companies don't spring up to focus on smaller runs of new
manufacture components.

But then I remember how absurdly difficult it is for garage business
type models to come up with the equipment to do the work, and I doubt
that many legit IC manufacturers would bother unless you run 100,000
or more of the things.

-Hans

[ldnayman]

Maybe I'm missing something, but when did we start sending old
computers to China?

I thought they went to inner city high schools or the dump.

[KenH]

On May 22, 11:14 pm, "GPE" <GPE_NoSpamPle...@cox.net> wrote:
> Well... they're coming back to us one counterfeit piece at a time.
> Beware of what you are buying on ebay as the Chinese have nearly taken over
> the electronic components section.
>

> Here's one page of >tens of thousands< of counterfeit items listed on ebay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-IC-ALLEGRO-DIP-18-UDN6118A-UDN6118A-1-UD...

>
> or here:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/855s8u2
>
> You'll note that these wonders are marked new with 0418 date codes.  18th
> week of 2004 which is nearly two years -after- Allegro discontinued them.
>
> You can also find some black topped MC6821P's from Freescale with 1112 date
> codes.  Sorry, Motorola dropped these several years ago - long, long before
> becoming Freescale.
> And Rockwell R6532P's with 0440 and 1019 date codes...  uh, huh.
>
> There are some decent parts listed but suspect ANYTHING from the Chinese
> sellers.
>
> Ed

Yikes! I bought some of these from "Eric Cheung Electronics" (a
different seller than you posted). I have a display board with
sockets, and I just tested them in a display and they work perfectly.
The chips look like new, but have a slightly different date code of
0438. I didn't know that the chip was discontinued before that date,
or I probably would not have chanced it. Maybe this seller is OK?

I'd be interested to hear from anyone else that may have bought from
Eric Cheung Electronics.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10pcs-IC-UDN6118A-DIP-18PIN-UDN-6118-display-driver-/310361270373?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4842f92865

[goatdan]

On May 23, 1:37 pm, G-P-E <g...@cox.net> wrote:
> In some documented
> cases, the parts actually contain -nothing-.  Just empty IC's with no
> internal die.  Part looks good, price is right... Plug it in, huh -
> nothing works.

Yup -- I did a project in the video game world that required a chip
that the place that we ordered the parts from after we started taking
pre-orders suddenly came back and said, "Oops! Sorry! We don't have
those!" After a nearly year-long delay, we found the part in China
and were ecstatic -- it cost about the same including shipping as
here, but unlike these the seller actually claimed them to be their
version of the product built to the same specs.

They sent us a stack of empty ICs with no internal dies.

Luckily, customs caught it before we put them into the boards (they
would have been machine soldered on to a project that cost us nearly
$20k...) and refused entry into the country. PayPal was kind of
farting around about it, but American Express told me that they would
be happy to reverse the charges if PayPal wouldn't. I told PayPal
that, and PayPal then was only too happy to reverse the charges.

It's a strange world where this stuff that can cost pennies one day is
suddenly obsolete and unobtainuim the next.

[AVP Pinball Division]

"G-P-E" <g...@cox.net> wrote in message news:G-P-E....@rrgparchive.com...

>
>
> Some people think this doesn't hurt anybody. Try explaining that to the
> family of the victims in a recent helicopter crash which was attributed
> to counterfeit components.
>
>
> --
> G-P-E

Long history of counterfeit parts in aviation...

--
Pistol Pete
AVP Pinball Division
Towson, MD
410-583-9200
web: http://www.AVPpinball.com
email: ser...@AVPpinball.com

[GPE]

"ldnayman" wrote in message
news:e60984fe-362e-42ca...@j10g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...

>
> Maybe I'm missing something, but when did we start sending old
> computers to China?
>
> I thought they went to inner city high schools or the dump.

Nope... no business computers to the dump anymore.
EPA put a stop to that several years ago. Businesses face a steep fine if
their monitors or other equipment is found in the dump and can be traced
back. Up sprang tons of "computer recycling" companies. These get
subsidies from the government, charge you to take the computers away and
'recycle' them and then sell the scrap to China and other countries by the
pound.
I know for sure about the subsidies they get - an acquaintance of mine
started one of these companies. Got a *free* truck from the government plus
building subsidies, tax breaks, etc.

Good percentage of this comes from Canada, Europe and Russia as well.
Apparently they also have disposal rules - we're all guilty on this one. As
long as you can dump them on a foreign country, the rules don't apply.

[GPE]

You got lucky -- apparently these were either factory rejects (off in one
spec or another) or similar remarked parts. The factory rejects route tends
to happen often. They were supposed to destroy them but often just route
them out the back door.
But, yeah - those have date codes more than two years after they were
discontinued.

If you want to see the king of counterfeiters on ebay - search for junk that
is sold by "goodbuy711"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"KenH" wrote in message
news:6e8d2688-3b3d-497c...@ra8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...

[Lee]

On May 23, 2:14 am, "GPE" <GPE_NoSpamPle...@cox.net> wrote:

> Well... they're coming back to us onecounterfeitpiece at a time.

> Beware of what you are buying on ebay as the Chinese have nearly taken over
> the electronic components section.
>

> Here's one page of >tens of thousands< ofcounterfeititems listed on ebay:http://www.ebay.com/itm/2PCS-IC-ALLEGRO-DIP-18-UDN6118A-UDN6118A-1-UD...

>
> or here:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/855s8u2
>
> You'll note that these wonders are marked new with 0418 date codes.  18th
> week of 2004 which is nearly two years -after- Allegro discontinued them.
>
> You can also find some black topped MC6821P's from Freescale with 1112 date
> codes.  Sorry, Motorola dropped these several years ago - long, long before
> becoming Freescale.
> And Rockwell R6532P's with 0440 and 1019 date codes...  uh, huh.
>
> There are some decent parts listed but suspect ANYTHING from the Chinese
> sellers.
>
> Ed

Not only a problem in pinball...
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-21/china-top-source-of-counterfeit-u-s-military-electronics.html

[ldnayman]

On May 24, 12:01 am, "AVP Pinball Division" <serv...@avppinball.com>
wrote:
> "G-P-E" <g...@cox.net> wrote in messagenews:G-P-E....@rrgparchive.com...

>
> > Some people think this doesn't hurt anybody.  Try explaining that to the
> > family of the victims in a recent helicopter crash which was attributed
> > to counterfeit components.
>
> > --
> > G-P-E
>
> Long history of counterfeit parts in aviation...
>

I gotta ask - I tried to find evidence of a recent helicopter crash
due to counterfit Chinese parts and couldn't find anything. Did this
actually happen?

[David Gersic]

In many states, it's now illegal to dump electronics, they must be
"recycled", where "recycled" means "packed in to 40ft. shipping
containers and sent to China to be broken down with torches and
coffee cans".

--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |
| You're too unstable to understand yourself, much less calculus. |
| Email address is a spam trap. Visit the web site for contact info. |

[GPE]

"ldnayman" wrote in message
news:e71c466a-a502-4d94...@l17g2000vbj.googlegroups.com...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yep. But this was in Australia. I'll see if I can find the link.