Williams Whitewater WPC Fliptronics 2 fault

wozzer

unread,

Mar 10, 2016, 3:45:04 PM3/10/16

to

Hi,
I have a weird fault where making the EOS on any of the 3 flippers on the game causes the coil to energise, if you manually lift the flipper in attract mode it stays energised,if you play a game as soon as you press the flipper button, it energises and stays locked on.
I have changed the LM339's and the HCT374 and HCT244 on the Fliptronics 2 board,but this hasn't made any difference so i'm starting to wonder if it's a leaky transistor or component, if I unplug the EOS plug from the fliptronics board the flippers work fine.
I have seen a page where someone was selling a fliptronics board with the same fault but can't find any clues as to what causes the problem. Can anyone kind soul help?

Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic

unread,

Mar 10, 2016, 4:41:35 PM3/10/16

to

I'd start by looking for a short circuit from one of the EOS switches to ground. With the EOS connector unplugged at the Fliptronic board and power off, check for continuity from any of the wires at the EOS connector to the ground braid in the back box. If you don't find anything suspicious try unplugging the flipper switch connector at the Fliptronic board *and* at the flipper button opto boards and repeat the same experiment.

Joseph "Tony" Dziedzic

wozzer

unread,

Mar 10, 2016, 5:07:53 PM3/10/16

to

Hi,
Thanks for the reply, I have metered the EOS contacts and non of them are leaking to ground, I then unplugged the flipper switch connector at the fliptronics board, and unplugged the flipper button opto boards, didn't make any difference, as soon as I manually raised a flipper it remained energised. It's bloody weird!

Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic

unread,

Mar 10, 2016, 6:18:18 PM3/10/16

to

Let me get this straight: With both the EOS and flipper opto board connectors unplugged the flipper remains enegerized? If it's a single flipper I'd suspect the transistor/pre-driver associated with the "hold" winding of the flipper; that could result in the hold winding being energized all the time. The hold winding typically doesn't have enough power to cause the flipper to operate.

If it's all (or more than one) flipper things get more complicated. Try removing the ribbon cable at J903 (?) from the Fliptronic board; any change?

Tony

wozzer

unread,

Mar 11, 2016, 5:33:27 AM3/11/16

to

Thanks for your help, I do appreciate it, right the fault is on all 3 flippers, with all plugs connected coil locks up when I manually push any flipper up. With just the EOS plug removed I get no fault on any flipper, with just the flipper switch plug removed I get the fault on any flipper, and with just the large ribbon cable disconnected I don't get the fault. Does this point to a problem with another board do you think because of the fault occuring with the ribbon cable disconnected?

Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic

unread,

Mar 11, 2016, 9:56:22 AM3/11/16

to

It's possible one of the other boards connected via the ribbon cable (sound, dot matrix controller) may be causing the issue. What happens if you disconnect the ribbon cable leading from the Fliptronic board to those two boards (leaving it connected to the Fliptronic board)? Try the same test with the Fliptronic, sound, and dot matrix controller boards connected but disconnect the ribbon cable from the CPU board.

Swapping the Fliptronic board with a known good one would be helpful if you have access to one.

wozzer

unread,

Mar 12, 2016, 5:29:04 AM3/12/16

to

Hi,
It energises the flippers if the ribbon cable is connected to the mpu and the fliptronics boards, it doesn't if I just have the ribbon to the other boards so i'm thinking its either the fliptronics board or the mpu causing this problem, I have another fliptronics board but this one doesn't do anything in the pinball!

Joseph 'Tony' Dziedzic

unread,

Mar 12, 2016, 3:05:49 PM3/12/16

to

Do you have an ASIC chip puller? (Radio Shack used to sell one, don't know if they still do.) Pull the CPU board out of the game, and if you have a puller remove the WPC ASIC and reseat it, otherwise just press firmly on the top of the ASIC with the CPU board resting on a flat surface. (The reason I suggest pulling the board is so you don't stress the board when trying to press down on the ASIC.) Unlikely to be the problem, but odd problems can arise if the connections to the ASIC are flaky.

Also check the battery holder on the CPU board; any signs of leakage or fuzz on the battery terminals?

wozzer

unread,

Mar 14, 2016, 6:26:40 AM3/14/16

to

Hi there,
I have already reseated the ASIC, the board hasn't got any battery leakage on it, I have had a development though, after thinking it was related to the CPU I changed the 74hct138, but only had a 74hc138 so after chopping the original off the board I soldered a socket on and then put this chip in and now it the board doesn't work at all, it doesn't see the flipper switches pressed in test or anything so I have ordered some 74hct138's. I'm hoping that its not working now because of my hc138 being installed! Not the greatest fan of this flipper system!

wozzer

unread,

Mar 16, 2016, 4:15:28 PM3/16/16

to

Phew what a job! Got it going and after seeing so many odd fliptronics faults online without remedy I thought I would update the thread in case anyone has this fault in the future.
I put in a new 74hct138 and the pinball had the original fault, all three flippers staying energised once the relevant flipper buttons were pressed in a game, or if you manually pushed a flipper up with your hand in attract mode.
I came to the conclusion that the decoder chips around the ribbon area between the cpu, fliptronics, sound and display area must be the problem so I decided to try changing U1 and U3 on the cpu board, this gave me a new fault, garbage on the display, well not complete garbage but where there should have been text I had blocks of dots!
With everything plugged in I also had my flipper fault, but if I unplugged the display board my flipper fault vanished and they worked ok, so next I changed U22 and U28 (the decoder chips on the display board) and viola everything works, my display text is good and my flippers have lost the strange 'energised once the EOS switch is made' problem.
I hope this makes sense and I hope someone in the future that has this fault will see this thread as I have spent hours and hours on this problem!

Pin Del

unread,

Mar 16, 2016, 4:58:41 PM3/16/16

to

Thanks for sharing !, I've been following this wondering what it could have been .

Pin-Del,

c...@provide.net

unread,

Mar 17, 2016, 7:13:10 AM3/17/16

to

On Wednesday, March 16, 2016 at 4:15:28 PM UTC-4, wozzer wrote:

----
So basically the DMD controller board was
corrupting the data lines enough to cause
the fliptronics to act weird. That is a
really strange problem!

I kind of forgot to mention this, but we
could have solved this sooner in the process...
weird behaviors should be isolated. that is,
we should have told you to only have the
fliptronics board connected via ribbon cable
(sound and dmd controller out of the equation),
and that would have probably told you a lot
more and sooner...

Message has been deleted

wozzer

unread,

Mar 18, 2016, 6:18:18 AM3/18/16

to

Hi There,
Yes a weird fault, I do think it was the decoder chips on both the cpu and the dmd controller, as at the start of my fault I did unplug the audio and the dmd controller ribbons and the fault disappeared which made me think it was an mpu fault, however my new garbled dmd problem started after changing the cpu decoder chips and thats when if I disconnected the dmd controller the fault vanished.