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Anyone see "WOZ" at PPE yesterday????

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maf.mi

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Sep 22, 2012, 8:03:26 AM9/22/12
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I'm surprised that there is no information, photos, reviews etc on WOZ
that is supposed to be there this weekend. What's the deal?


--
maf.mi

Marty,
Farmington Hills, MI
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com

Frank Gigliotti

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Sep 22, 2012, 8:11:58 AM9/22/12
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News on pinside said it won't be revealed until noon today at Jacks
presentation.

"maf.mi" <mar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:maf.mi...@rrgparchive.com...

Frank Furhter

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Sep 22, 2012, 10:37:58 PM9/22/12
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Still no news?

american...@hotmail.com

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Sep 22, 2012, 11:07:23 PM9/22/12
to fr...@furhter.com
On Saturday, September 22, 2012 10:37:59 PM UTC-4, Frank Furhter wrote:
> Frank Gigliotti wrote: > News on pinside said it won't be revealed until noon today at Jacks > presentation. > > "maf.mi" <mar...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:maf.mi...@rrgparchive.com... >> >> I'm surprised that there is no information, photos, reviews etc on WOZ >> that is supposed to be there this weekend. What's the deal? >> >> >> -- >> maf.mi >> >> Marty, >> Farmington Hills, MI >> This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com >> > > Still no news?

All on pinside. Be there or be square.

Frank Furhter

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Sep 23, 2012, 9:21:16 AM9/23/12
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Nah, it was rethreaded here just fine a while after thus the miss.

DOC DOOM

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Sep 23, 2012, 12:12:10 PM9/23/12
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On Sep 23, 9:21 am, Frank Furhter <fr...@furhter.com> wrote:
> americannleag...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, September 22, 2012 10:37:59 PM UTC-4, Frank Furhter wrote:
> >> Frank Gigliotti wrote: > News on pinside said it won't be revealed until noon today at Jacks > presentation. > > "maf.mi" <mart...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >news:maf.mi...@rrgparchive.com... >> >> I'm surprised that there is no information, photos, reviews etc on WOZ >> that is supposed to be there this weekend. What's the deal? >> >> >> -- >> maf.mi >> >> Marty, >> Farmington Hills, MI >> This USENET post sent fromhttp://rgparchive.com>> > > Still no news?
>
> > All on pinside. Be there or be square.
>
> Nah, it was rethreaded here just fine a while after thus the miss.

Frank, it's hard to think, that with over 10,000 sperm....you were the
fastest swimmer!!!

Doc Doom

Frank Furhter

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Sep 23, 2012, 4:45:45 PM9/23/12
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FF2 didn't adapt to well after surgery, maybe 9,999th and not hard to
believe. http://tinyurl.com/9f3p9dr

Pinthetic

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Sep 23, 2012, 7:51:15 PM9/23/12
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I stood in line for my 2 balls of play with pal Steve Gligorea. It was
an interesting game. Some of the playfield toys are really good. I
believe, or was told, this unit had crippled software to speed up play
so it could be experienced by more people in a short time.

While I was playing Gary Stern and George Gomez were a few feet away
checking it out.

It has really nice artwork, (and I am not a fan of the movie). I am a
fan of Greg Freres through!

What I didn't like was: Weak flippers. Couldn't make the ramp unless
the shot was perfect. I really didn't get the split screen display,
but with only two balls per game you really can't judge it overall.

Dorthy's house was dark.

I'd love to play the full version when it's done.

Mario
Pinthetic

punked

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Sep 23, 2012, 11:38:38 PM9/23/12
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> > believe.  http://tinyurl.com/9f3p9dr- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hey Mario, tried to say "Hi" but you had alot of family, plus Steve
and Ruth...

You are right on with the weak flippers. I drained one ball real
quick, but shot at least a dozen balls at the ramp on the other, but
no go...

BTW, my buddy has pics of Gary and George "checking it out" Great
peeps....Thank You SR for the BIBLE!!!

Bob C

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Sep 24, 2012, 2:53:06 AM9/24/12
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Flipper power was turned down until game software is more complete


--
Bob C

Rare Hero

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Sep 24, 2012, 4:20:36 AM9/24/12
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On Sunday, September 23, 2012 11:54:03 PM UTC-7, Bob C wrote:
> Flipper power was turned down until game software is more complete

Why would the flipper strength have anything to do with code completion? If anything, stronger flippers would have made it more FUN since there wasn't much in the way of code....something's not right with this flipper situation...they felt REALLY BAD and I can't imagine any good reason to present that strength of flipper for people's first impressions of the game....

Greg

Aeneas - www.flippers.be

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Sep 24, 2012, 6:53:14 AM9/24/12
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Op maandag 24 september 2012 10:20:37 UTC+2 schreef Rare Hero het volgende:
> On Sunday, September 23, 2012 11:54:03 PM UTC-7, Bob C wrote: > Flipper power was turned down until game software is more complete Why would the flipper strength have anything to do with code completion? If anything, stronger flippers would have made it more FUN since there wasn't much in the way of code....something's not right with this flipper situation...they felt REALLY BAD and I can't imagine any good reason to present that strength of flipper for people's first impressions of the game.... Greg

Maybe flipper strength is also software controlled and also needs 'tuning' ?
So like we saw earlier a video of the game with no lamp effects (just all lamps on), it was probably easier to make a release with a default flipper strength (not the strongest) hardcoded in it..

Aeneas.
-- http://www.flippers.be

Frank Furhter

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Sep 24, 2012, 11:01:13 AM9/24/12
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Seems reasonable about the flipper tuning and thus maybe speed of game.
Kids, girls, men, boys, even slow enough for a dog to play.

yancy

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Sep 24, 2012, 1:31:43 PM9/24/12
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Bob C;1999545 Wrote:
> Flipper power was turned down until game software is more complete
Great sales tactic. I see Stern has met its match in the marketing
department.


--
yancy

Bob C

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Sep 24, 2012, 1:50:26 PM9/24/12
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All I know was the flipper power was turned down until more things are
ironed out. I noticed in a later video it did not seem to be an issue.

The game is not finished yet...it's not going to play like a finished
game until it's finished (software and all parts issues with 3rd party
vendors resolved)

Bob C

homebrood

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Sep 24, 2012, 2:44:52 PM9/24/12
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Also from what I've heard they said it should be basically Bally/Williams flipper hardware, which is usually quite strong like in TAF and many others.
If it is software controlled, then I would think they will be able to be tuned up quite a bit. I agree though, why weaken the flippers when you are trying to make a good impression? Maybe they are afraid to let it really fly in fear of something breaking until they can determine any weak points and fix them? In the video though the ball does appear to fly right up to the top of the play-field pretty quickly but if it can't make the ramp fairly easily then that's no good.

Tom

EZ E

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Sep 24, 2012, 3:27:04 PM9/24/12
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WAKE UP! JJP laid an egg, face it! All the BS about the line power,
code, leg pitch.... Believe Keith/JJP or your lying eyes! The game isn't
any fun to play. WOF? The shots are complete duds! Code doesn't fix
that! No flow = no fun! It's now turned into damage control. People are
trying to figure out how to sell the thing, get a refund or just escape
with with the least amount of damage! That's the facts! He better have
game number 2 lined up or it's OVER before it started! No one's ever
going to put a deposit on a JJP game, EVER!


--
EZ E

homebrood

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Sep 24, 2012, 3:51:11 PM9/24/12
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Ok, based on everything you just said, I am very interested in buying WOZ. Can you get me a good deal on one! Thanks

Tom

Kerry Richard

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Sep 24, 2012, 4:34:08 PM9/24/12
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EZSLEEZE...

I planning on buying JJP's #2 & #3. I seen the WOZLE game, played the
game and REALLY love what I saw. You'll need to buy some mouth wash
to rinse the crow out.

Kerry Richard

John I

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Sep 24, 2012, 5:54:37 PM9/24/12
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Kerry Richard;1999736 Wrote:
> On Sep 24, 12:28*pm, EZ E <erik.hoh... (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> > Snip
>
> EZSLEEZE...
>
> I planning on buying JJP's #2 & #3. I seen the WOZLE game, played the
> game and REALLY love what I saw. You'll need to buy some mouth wash
> to rinse the crow out.
>
> Kerry Richard


Please don't quote or feed the troll.

John


--
John I

http://www.floridapinballforum.com

Riggy

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Sep 24, 2012, 6:28:20 PM9/24/12
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I love how he's the self proclaimed "Most hated man in pinball". Most pittied, I would imagine. He just comes across sad and pathetic.

dragonberg

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Sep 24, 2012, 7:15:52 PM9/24/12
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software controlled flipper strength? come on is that even real?

I don't own any or have any tech experience with modern machines, so do
any of those have a software setting for flippers? The whole idea sounds
absurd.

watched the video on pinball news... looked normal to me. The ball
sailed right up the middle ramp if it was a good hit. Perhaps the shot
requires good aim, like its supposed too. Game looks amazing to me, I am
a fan of evolution.


--
dragonberg

Lloyd Olson

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Sep 24, 2012, 7:58:27 PM9/24/12
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On a Capcom pinball you can control flipper strength through software. On a
Stern pin you can too, solenoids, not sure right now about flippers.

So yes it is real that on WOZ software can control flipper strength.

LTG :)

"dragonberg" <jjer...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dragonbe...@rrgparchive.com...

EZ E

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Sep 24, 2012, 8:04:27 PM9/24/12
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It's official WOZLE has taken the title from Avatard worst pinball
machine made! That's a real trick! It's took Stern years to make a
crappy game that bad. JJP pulled it off first game! Like I said months
ago, the more you see the more you'll want to distance yourself from the
whole project! Wait till these turds hit the market for sale, good luck
getting $3K! That's if you ever get one! B.O.H.I.C.A WOZLE owners! Bend
Over Here It Comes Again! Did you notice it's almost Oct and no test
game! We know why now.


--
EZ E

Strohz

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Sep 24, 2012, 8:19:04 PM9/24/12
to

Actually, the latest version of LOTR had three software adjustments for
the flippers which helped make them weaker/stronger. I forget what they
were, but they made a noticeable difference.


--
Strohz

Frank Furhter

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Sep 24, 2012, 8:35:57 PM9/24/12
to
dragonberg wrote:
> software controlled flipper strength? come on is that even real?
>
> I don't own any or have any tech experience with modern machines, so do
> any of those have a software setting for flippers? The whole idea sounds
> absurd.
>
> watched the video on pinball news... looked normal to me. The ball
> sailed right up the middle ramp if it was a good hit. Perhaps the shot
> requires good aim, like its supposed too. Game looks amazing to me, I am
> a fan of evolution.
>
>

Software voltage control?

chuck

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Sep 24, 2012, 8:40:54 PM9/24/12
to fr...@furhter.com
Pulse width modulation.

Frank Furhter

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Sep 24, 2012, 10:11:51 PM9/24/12
to

llabrevlis

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Sep 24, 2012, 10:13:03 PM9/24/12
to
I was standing right next to WOZ on the show floor, Jack was watching
people play, his comment on the flipper strength was he likes a game
where you have to make a very good shot to make a ramp, not just in
the area and super strong flippers power it thru. He knows that's
him, and said you'll be able to adjust them to be as strong as you
want. Making the center ramp on the prototype was tough, but I saw
many people make it 3 times and start multiball!!

Just to make it very clear, this game software wise has a long way to
go, if that makes you nervous then you should call Jack and talk to
him, but my understanding is the grunt work is done, now it's pulling
all the elements together, and there are a ton of them!! I think it
is close to being able to go on test, maybe another few weeks of
programming and they'll have it, but the important thing is progress
is definitely being made!!

BTW, I also got to see underneath the playfield and see how the boards
are protected in the cabinet, game is going to be a joy to service!!

Dale

homebrood

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Sep 24, 2012, 10:19:58 PM9/24/12
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And EZ SLEEZE E HAS TAKEN THE TITLE OF rgpRETARD for being so fucking stupid!!!

Ha Ha Ha EZ WOZ is a great game even before software!!! You Suck Donkey Shit EZ!

Tom

pins4fun

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Sep 25, 2012, 12:43:17 AM9/25/12
to
All Capcom flippers had/have pulse width modulation, that is, you can
go to the menu and 'technically' adjust the flipper strength as you
like. Mine are set at factory default, because I don't think it makes
a bit of a difference, really for what/where it matters. They're
still the clunky Capcom flippers that lack the 'tactile efficiency' of
the B/W flippers, IMO.

gaspumprob

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Sep 25, 2012, 2:18:39 AM9/25/12
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I played WOZ three to four times and it has great toys! It looks very
nice, and Jack showed me the underside of the playfield and all the
subassemblies. He explained the weak flippers saying that when software
is done you will be able to program all flipper power levels for each
flipper separately. So he said the upper flipper could be set high and
the lower flipper set low or whatever. We need to wait for the final
product. It was a thrill to have the chance to play a prototype game.
Thanks Jack!! Jack packed it up early on Sunday because of a connector
problem under the payfield. It was just a bad connection because we
could wiggle it and get the left upkicker to work. A couple of techs at
the show kind of tried to help by resoldering the opto controller board
and after that the board was totally disfunctional. Probably bridged
something with solder. Jack was pissed and lowered the playfield and
packed it up.

Rob


--
gaspumprob

Current lineup MB AFM RFM TOTAN TOM WCS TAF TZ WH2O TGHS2 T2 RBION SM BK
BK2 HH PB BOPB FH JP WW and many more too many to list. Can't seem to
end this addiction LOL:D

Lloyd Olson

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Sep 25, 2012, 5:49:19 AM9/25/12
to
I wish I could have been there to fix it.

I'm sure the techs there were good, just not used to a crowd and pressure.
They didn't learn pinball repair in a crowded bar with drunks helping. A
whole different world.

LTG :)

"gaspumprob" <gaspu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:gaspumpr...@rrgparchive.com...

llabrevlis

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Sep 25, 2012, 6:49:16 AM9/25/12
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On Sep 25, 2:49 am, "Lloyd Olson" <l...@ssbilliards.com> wrote:
> I wish I could have been there to fix it.
>
> I'm sure the techs there were good, just not used to a crowd and pressure.
> They didn't learn pinball repair in a crowded bar with drunks helping. A
> whole different world.
>
> LTG :)
>
> "gaspumprob" <gaspump...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:gaspumpr...@rrgparchive.com...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I played WOZ three to four times and it has great toys! It looks very
> > nice, and Jack showed me the underside of the playfield and all the
> > subassemblies. He explained the weak flippers saying that when software
> > is done you will be able to program all flipper power levels for each
> > flipper separately. So he said the upper flipper could be set high and
> > the lower flipper set low or whatever. We need to wait for the final
> > product. It was a thrill to have the chance to play a prototype game.
> > Thanks Jack!!  Jack packed it up early on Sunday because of a connector
> > problem under the payfield. It was just a bad connection because we
> > could wiggle it and get the left upkicker to work. A couple of techs at
> > the show kind of tried to help by resoldering the opto controller board
> > and after that the board was totally disfunctional. Probably bridged
> > something with solder. Jack was pissed and lowered the playfield and
> > packed it up.
>
> > Rob

I was playing it when it finally packed it in, figures I would hit the
crystal ball twice in a row!! Jack worked on it with at least twenty
people watching, then heard that someone had done some unauthorized
tinkering on it, which he was not pleased to hear.

Anyway, after trying several things for a while with the crowd milling
around they decided to take it into a private area and fix it properly
which they did. Turned out to be a shorted wire connected to the opto
control board, once they found it, as far as I know it played fine
until they packed it up to ship back.

PismoArcade

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Sep 25, 2012, 9:26:01 AM9/25/12
to

Played it twice and experienced something I didn't expect... boredom.

Colorful, to say the least. But a real snooze for repeat gameplay. Plus
the thing kept breaking down.

So happy that I waited before making my decision. IMO, a major
disappointment.


--
PismoArcade

Borygard

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Sep 25, 2012, 9:36:28 AM9/25/12
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Exactly, the game was brought back into service and worked until its
scheduled departure at 3:30PM.

The game was actually dropped by the shipping company in transit and
it held up obviously very well, but there were a few issues that
needed to be worked out.

Hearing that each individual flipper will be adjustable is pretty
cool. I've said it before and I'll say it again, this is a game
changer, a major game changer. Very fun to shoot, and I simple say
"to shoot", and not to play, because it's not a finished game, I'll
play it and make my final judgement when I PLAY a complete game.
Those that are criticizing and whining because an unfinished game that
they've not yet seen in person, much less played, are just showing how
infintile and foolish they are. This is a great work in progress and
will be an amazing game.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587

Frank Furhter

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Sep 25, 2012, 9:58:09 AM9/25/12
to
You can't say wait and make a judgement when it is done and finish the
statement with 'will be an amazing game.' Judge it for what it is now,
or don't judge/speculate it at all.

llabrevlis

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Sep 25, 2012, 9:58:28 AM9/25/12
to
Wonder if you had had the chance to play Medieval Madness when it was
at the same stage of development, and all the castle did was swallow
the ball with no sound effects, no insert interaction on the
playfield, DMD only displaying partial animations etc, how exciting
would the gameplay have been as compared to how it turned out?? You
seriously think you can draw a valid conclusion from playing 4
balls??

It might turn out that's it not your thing, no pinball is loved by
everyone, but I'm so tired of some judging the game like it is
complete, when obviously it is not.

Joe Grenuk

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Sep 25, 2012, 10:14:10 AM9/25/12
to

>
> You can't say wait and make a judgement when it is done and finish the
> statement with 'will be an amazing game.'  Judge it for what it is now,
> or don't judge/speculate it at all.

Let's see....do I listen to Todd Nathan or Rob Anthony?

I pick Rob.






PismoArcade

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Sep 25, 2012, 12:50:06 PM9/25/12
to

llabrevlis;1999964 Wrote:
> On Sep 25, 6:26*am, PismoArcade <Pismoarc... (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
> wrote:
> > Played it twice and experienced something I didn't expect... boredom.
> >
> > Colorful, to say the least. But a real snooze for repeat gameplay.
> Plus
> > the thing kept breaking down.
> >
> > So happy that I waited before making my decision. IMO, a major
> > disappointment.
> >
> > --
> > PismoArcade
> > This USENET post sent from *http://rgparchive.com
>
> Wonder if you had had the chance to play Medieval Madness when it was
> at the same stage of development, and all the castle did was swallow
> the ball with no sound effects, no insert interaction on the
> playfield, DMD only displaying partial animations etc, how exciting
> would the gameplay have been as compared to how it turned out?? You
> seriously think you can draw a valid conclusion from playing 4
> balls??
>
> It might turn out that's it not your thing, no pinball is loved by
> everyone, but I'm so tired of some judging the game like it is
> complete, when obviously it is not.

WOZzzzz is hardly a "WIP", like MM, it has sound effects (The annoying
voice actress playing the Wicked Witch, the monotonous music) and the
gameplay seems pretty established to me. It's not the worst game I've
every played, but as others that I spoke with at PPE agreed, it's
nothing special and (IMO) doesn't justify the hype.

..and just as you are tired of people "judging" the game, I am equally
tired of anybody who dares to give an opinion on JJP or WOZ getting
slammed by understandably worried people that fronted Jack an interest
free loan two years ago.

Did the thing keep breaking down? Yep. (Fact, not opinion.)

Is WOZ appealing to the eye? IMO, yes.

Is the PPE train wreck Karma for JJ slamming GS about missed deadlines?
Sure looks like it.

Beechwood

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Sep 25, 2012, 1:15:36 PM9/25/12
to

You can please some of the people all of the time, and you can please
all of the people some of the time. But you can never please all of the
people all of the time.

JJP only has to please a few thousand people who purchase this game.
The ones that aren't pleased will sell it. Those that like it will keep
it. Eventually most WOZ's will find a home with those that are pleased
with it.

Arguing about this title has surpassed idiotic and now encroaches on
comical.


--
Beechwood

Joel
HIOP
"Hey, Its Only Pinball!!"
Message has been deleted

JimS

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Sep 25, 2012, 1:41:51 PM9/25/12
to
On Sep 25, 9:52 am, PismoArcade <Pismoarc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> WOZzzzz is hardly a "WIP", like MM, it has sound effects (The annoying
> voice actress playing the Wicked Witch, the monotonous music) and the
> gameplay seems pretty established to me. It's not the worst game I've
> every played, but as others that I spoke with at PPE agreed, it's
> nothing special and (IMO) doesn't justify the hype.
>
> ..and just as you are tired of people "judging" the game, I am equally
> tired of anybody who dares to give an opinion on JJP or WOZ getting
> slammed by understandably worried people that fronted Jack an interest
> free loan two years ago.
>
> Did the thing keep breaking down? Yep. (Fact, not opinion.)
>
> Is WOZ appealing to the eye? IMO, yes.
>
> Is the PPE train wreck Karma for JJ slamming GS about missed deadlines?
> Sure looks like it.
>
I don't have a problem when a machine is judged or criticized in a
constructive way. However, I think the saying "It's better to remain
silent and let people wonder if your clueless rather than open your
mouth and remove all doubt" applies to a few of the most vocal
critics. These people, such as yourself (though your not the worst of
them, by far), seem to have an axe to grind as opposed to sharing an
honest opinion. If I have misread your intent, I apologize, but you
may want to consider that's how you come across and it weakens the
points you are trying to make.

Jim



Joe Grenuk

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Sep 25, 2012, 1:51:26 PM9/25/12
to
That goes for me too. Honest opinions, positive or negative, are
welcomed, and especially so if rendered by informed pinheads, like
those of you who have seen and played the game.

Personally, I value and respect opinions like yours (Pismo), because
they appear to be offered straight up, and are based on your having
interacted with the game. On the other hand, when some Ahole stands on
the roof and shouts "It SUCKS! Worst game EVER! ", and does so over
and over again just to make sure we get it, that's A Hole other story.



TheKorn

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Sep 25, 2012, 2:05:43 PM9/25/12
to

dragonberg;1999780 Wrote:
> software controlled flipper strength? come on is that even real?

Yep, it's real all right.

> I don't own any or have any tech experience with modern machines, so do
> any of those have a software setting for flippers? The whole idea sounds
> absurd.

Yes, Capcom implemented it as a user-adjustable feature. Having purely
electronic control over the flippers is what allows games with broken
EOS switches to work rather than blow a fuse or catch on fire. In other
words, going all the way back to fliptronics it's been controllable, if
not outright user adjustable.

(Early updates of LOTR's code tweaked the flipper strength, IIRC.)


--
TheKorn

PismoArcade

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Sep 25, 2012, 2:12:25 PM9/25/12
to

JimS;2000052 Wrote:
> On Sep 25, 9:52*am, PismoArcade <Pismoarc... (AT) gmail (DOT) com>
Jim;

I assure you I have no axe to grind; I'm sorry if it comes off that way.
Such is the way of the internet vs talking to people face to face, where
you can discern inflection, snark, etc.

Truth be told... I've put away some money for a new pin and I was
considering WOZ. Jack's GS bashing put me off the machine initially, but
I kept an open mind and watched the progress.

I was excited to finally get a chance to play it at PPE.... So excited
that I stood in a very long line. (the breakdown made the wait even
longer.) I, and three others that I spoke with came away unimpressed,
while another found the game "annoying".

I decided to give it a second chance and once again got in line. Once
again, I just found the gameplay "ok".... Look, I'm far from a GS
sycophant... I find "Transformers" to be disappointing and dull.

..anyway, thanks for the feedback and thanks for not resorting to name
calling. There seems to be an abundance of that on both sides.

Thanks for the kind words, Jgrenuk....

JimS

unread,
Sep 25, 2012, 2:54:18 PM9/25/12
to
On Sep 25, 11:14 am, PismoArcade <Pismoarc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I assure you I have no axe to grind; I'm sorry if it comes off that way.
> Such is the way of the internet vs talking to people face to face, where
> you can discern inflection, snark, etc.
>
> Truth be told... I've put away some money for a new pin and I was
> considering WOZ. Jack's GS bashing put me off the machine initially, but
> I kept an open mind and watched the progress.
>
> I was excited to finally get a chance to play it at PPE.... So excited
> that I stood in a very long line.  (the breakdown made the wait even
> longer.) I, and three others that I spoke with came away unimpressed,
> while another found the game "annoying".
>
> I decided to give it a second chance and once again got in line. Once
> again, I just found the gameplay "ok".... Look, I'm far from a GS
> sycophant... I find "Transformers" to be disappointing and dull.
>
> ..anyway, thanks for the feedback and thanks for not resorting to name
> calling. There seems to be an abundance of that on both sides.
>
> PismoArcade
> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, I stand corrected then, and apologize for misreading your
motivatiion.

It's certainly not my job to champion the machine, but since you're
thinking about purchasing one, you may want to consider that the game
only has basic placeholders for sound and rules right now. I'm
thinking people who like the playfield layout of TZ or TSPP (or at
least don't dislike them) will probably be okay with the WOZ layout.
You probably already know the games that Keith Johnson and Chris
Granner have worked on, but if not, look them up on ipdb.org. If they
tend to create sofware and sound packages that you've liked in the
past, I think the chancea are good that WOZ will turn out to your
liking in this regard too. All my opinions of course and time will
tell.

Jim

PismoArcade

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Sep 25, 2012, 3:32:48 PM9/25/12
to

Thanks... I'll check it out.

I own TSPP (bought a mod and a topper at PPE), but just to show you how
subjective pinball is, Im not a fan of TZ. (Which pretty much makes me
the only one.)

I'm looking forward to play WOZ once it ships and hope to be proven
wrong on my initial impression.


--

Frank Furhter

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Sep 25, 2012, 3:51:34 PM9/25/12
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Hardly an interest free loan, when indeed the loan was done with genuine
interest at heart, as well as what seems to be a 10-15% return from the
current 'retail' price of 7500 or so. 1000 return on 'investment' for a
6500 dollar loan for 2 years is not terrible in todays 2-3% at best bond
markets and at times sub 1% in CDs.

llabrevlis

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Sep 25, 2012, 6:44:03 PM9/25/12
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On Sep 25, 9:52 am, PismoArcade <Pismoarc...@gmail.com> wrote:
But the sound effects are not placed, the music is looping, and hardly
any rules are in place, it is most definitely a "work in progress"!!

> It's not the worst game I've
> every played, but as others that I spoke with at PPE agreed, it's
> nothing special and (IMO) doesn't justify the hype.

As it sits I agree, but once again, it is not even close to finished,
you are getting maybe 20% of what the final play experience will be
like.

> ..and just as you are tired of people "judging" the game, I am equally
> tired of anybody who dares to give an opinion on JJP or WOZ getting
> slammed by understandably worried people that fronted Jack an interest
> free loan two years ago.

When the game is finished, I'll have no problem with people judging
the game, but you're prematurely condemning it, and that's what I have
an issue with.
>
> Did the thing keep breaking down? Yep. (Fact, not opinion.)

The game had a shorted wire, (which may or may not have been caused by
being dropped), the short caused the left kickout opto to fail, which
meant every time the ball went into the hole, the game couldn't find
it. Took them a little time to diagnose what it was, once they fixed
it, it was solid until they wrapped it up. So saying it kept breaking
down is just a bit dramatic, it had an issue they fixzed it, it's
pinball and it's a prototype, not like the whole system kept crashing.
>
> Is WOZ appealing to the eye? IMO, yes.

No argument, maybe the only thing everyone seems to agree on!!
>
> Is the PPE train wreck Karma for JJ slamming GS about missed deadlines?
> Sure looks like it.

This is where you show your bias IMO, it was hardly a train wreck, the
vast amount of feedback has been positive, and as for JJ slamming
Gary, Jack has said he said things he wished he hadn't and as far as I
know, they have shook hands and that's in the past.
>
> --
> PismoArcade
> This USENET post sent from  http://rgparchive.com

You seem to have missed my point, what I am saying is you played a
game that with tons of features not functioning in the way they will
when it is finished, no pinball game is really fun to shoot when you
aren't getting the proper feedback for the shot, take your favorite
game, turn off the sound, disconnect the DMD or display, and play a
game see how much fun it is! I realize the WOZ you played had some
feedback, but for the most part, when you made a shot, you didn't get
the correct sound, the inserts were not indicative of what you were
accomplishing, and only a couple of LCD animations were available.

In a way, I think Jack is taking a greater risk now taking the game
out in public in a semi working state than he was when he took it to
E3 and Seattle, at least there it was obvious the game was only in a
rudimentary state, but now, the game partially functions, a few things
work but most don't, so there's a real danger if the player doesn't
put it in the proper perspective.

What the Wizard of OZ is going to be when it is delivered is a long
way from what we saw at PPE, but IMO it was a great first step, the
basic operating system seemed to work flawlessly, and that is easily
half the battle, now Keith can start pulling all the elements
together, a process that will take time, but I suspect the heavy
lifting is for the most part done, now the creation of the game and
it's rules really begins!!

PismoArcade

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Sep 25, 2012, 7:43:50 PM9/25/12