Jokerz! sound problem (NOT hum)

[GlebeCS]

I have been restoring my Jokerz! and it is almost 100% now, the only
issue I have remaining is a confused sound issue.

I do get sound and speech, 90% of which is correct, sometimes the wrong
sound-byte is played at the wrong time and also there is at least one
phrase missing ('Quiet-We are playing').

When I press SW2 to test the sound I get nothing, no sound, no error,
nothing.

When the game starts there are no errors, but I get what I have always
thought to be normal long 'dong' sound when I switch on, then a couple
of seconds later a short 'dong', although no errors are shown I wonder
if this could be a clues to the issue, I know that if I could get the
sound test working a single 'dong' would point indicate bad RAM at U23.

Any advice appreciated as always.

Andy


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GlebeCS
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[GlebeCS]

Morning bump (UK time), anyone?

[TunaSled]

IMHO that damn joker laughing is a sound problem in itself :)

My Cyclone developed a similar sound issue, wrong sounds for certain events and other sounds missing entirely. I sent my board to Rob Anthony and it's 100% now. Turns out it had some acid damage that I did not see.

[GlebeCS]

Hi, am pretty sure that there is no acid damage, I am thinking that I
should change U23 (will have to order 6116 chip as have none), this may
be clutching at straws however as I am unsure.

[GlebeCS]

Another bump, I cannot find any information on testing the sound on the
Jokerz (or any system 11b really), is it a case of substituting parts
and if so is there any particular order to do this?

Andy

[homebrood]

This game was the only game ever to use the special stereo sound board that it has. Unique to Jokerz, not much info on the board from what I've heard.

Tom

[GlebeCS]

Last try with this one, I have done as much reading as I can find and I
think my best move is to replace the RAM on the cpu board and the 2
amplifiers on the sound board, if that doesn't cure the issue I am not
sure what to try next, probably capacitors on the sound board I think,
unless anyone has a better plan?

[TheKorn]

GlebeCS <an...@glebecomputers.co.uk> wrote in news:GlebeCS...@rrgparchive.com:

> Last try with this one, I have done as much reading as I can find and I
> think my best move is to replace the RAM on the cpu board and the 2
> amplifiers on the sound board, if that doesn't cure the issue I am not
> sure what to try next, probably capacitors on the sound board I think,
> unless anyone has a better plan?

I think you're barking up the wrong tree. That you get the wrong sounds sometimes
is indicitive to me of a data error, specifically of the ribbon cable that connects
the sound board to the CPU board. Could also be a failure of the chips that drive
the ribbon cable and/or receive the signals from the ribbon cable, but the ribbon
cable is easy and cheap to replace, so I'd say start there first.

I'd try that first, then go on to harder things. I'm dead sure you don't have an
amplifier problem, or you wouldn't get any sound whatsoever. RAM is a possibility
but much further down on the hit list, IMHO.

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[GlebeCS]

Hi, thanks for the response, I will make up a temporary ribbon cable
with alligator clip cables and see if the issue changes, or I may well
have an old PC ribbon I can modify.

I will report back once tested,

Thanks again,

[TheKorn]

GlebeCS <an...@glebecomputers.co.uk> wrote in news:GlebeCS...@rrgparchive.com:

> Hi, thanks for the response, I will make up a temporary ribbon cable
> with alligator clip cables and see if the issue changes, or I may well
> have an old PC ribbon I can modify.
>
> I will report back once tested,

np. IIRC (big IF!), an old floppy drive cable can be used if you use the drive B
(straight-through) connection. If you have computer junk that old hanging around,
of course. ;)

[GlebeCS]

Hi again,

You were dead right, an old floppy cable does fit the bill for testing,
unfortunately no improvement so I decided to watch some YouTube videos
and see if I can identify more of the faulty sounds, I have come up with
the following (may only mean anything to other Jokerz owners but it may
help someone point me in the right direction for a fix)

1. When the ramp raises the sound is not quite correct, quite a lot of
static but you can here the 'drawbridge' sound through the static.

2. When locking a ball there is a static type buzz instead of the
correct sound

3. There is less laughter when in multi-ball than their should be

4. When the card wheel is activated instead of saying 'Draw Poker' it
says 3 or 4 other phrases or sounds, a laugh, a 'jokerz wild' and the
sound that it should make (and does make) for adding a player while
playing.

5. The original problem that led me to check, it doesnt say 'Quiet, we
are playing' when losing a ball from multi-ball.

Any further help appreciated,

Thanks,

[TheKorn]

GlebeCS <an...@glebecomputers.co.uk> wrote in news:GlebeCS...@rrgparchive.com:

Hmmmmm.... I'm still thinking that this is some sort of "bad data" type issue,
but it'll take some probing to find the source. Do you have a logic probe?

If not, then it might be time to send the board out for repair. You *could* try
new sound roms first, though. Not sure of the availability/price over there, but
over here they're pretty cheap and a halfway decent shot of solving your problem.
After that you're really going to need to start probing lines to find out where
the signal is going wrong.

[GlebeCS]

Hi, I have replaced all the ROMs (I have a programmer and eraser).

Yes, I do have a logic probe but have no idea where to start probing,
lol

[TheKorn]

GlebeCS <an...@glebecomputers.co.uk> wrote in news:GlebeCS...@rrgparchive.com:

> Hi, I have replaced all the ROMs (I have a programmer and eraser).
>
> Yes, I do have a logic probe but have no idea where to start probing,
> lol

Great, the scan of the schematic for the audio board on the IPDB is damn near
unreadable, and it's the ONLY game that uses that board. Arrgh.

I would start by turning the volume down low (not quite inaudible) and putting the
game in sound test. Then I'd probe lines 3-10 on J1, to see if you're getting data
on each line at *some* point in the sound test. Those lines then go to U3 (a
buffer, I think?? REALLY hard to read), where I'd do the same test on the inputs
and outputs. (No chance of giving you pin numbers, can't read 'em.)

That would let you know that all your lines from the CPU are coming in, going to the
buffer chip, and coming back out OK.

[GlebeCS]

Hi Again,

I will get the probe out and see what I can find.

I have the same issue with not being able to find a readable copy of the
sound schematics, I don't suppose anyone has one they could scan?

[GlebeCS]

I have had a little poke around with the sound test playing.

On J1 on the sound board there is no pulsing on any pin during the sound
test, all pins are static either high/low or nothing showing on the
probe, same on J12 on the CPU board.

J12 is the output that feeds J1 on the sound board I assume?

Checking U23 RAM legs and there is pulse and change during the sound
test at the RAM chip, the sound test does only play 6 sounds, not
anywhere near as many sounds as the game contains.

Does this give any clue?

Thanks,

[TheKorn]

GlebeCS <an...@glebecomputers.co.uk> wrote in news:GlebeCS...@rrgparchive.com:

> I have had a little poke around with the sound test playing.
>
> On J1 on the sound board there is no pulsing on any pin during the sound
> test, all pins are static either high/low or nothing showing on the
> probe, same on J12 on the CPU board.

Well that can't be right. Every sound, the CPU is sending a command to the CPU
board to do something, and clearly the signal is getting there because your sound
board IS doing something. So either the way you're testing is bad, the probe is
bad, or the testing methodology is bad.

> J12 is the output that feeds J1 on the sound board I assume?

No, should be J21 on the CPU board (that ribbon cable you swapped earlier). J12
IIRC is somewhere in the switch matrix.

The sound board does have an analog input from the CPU section, so it's *possible*
that the sound test is only testing the sounds that are generated on the CPU
board. Unfortunately I'm just not familiar enough with jokerz to know if this
game does that or not. (This was during the sys11 crossover period where some
games generated sounds on both the CPU board AND the sound board, while some did
it all on just the sound board.)

> Checking U23 RAM legs and there is pulse and change during the sound
> test at the RAM chip, the sound test does only play 6 sounds, not
> anywhere near as many sounds as the game contains.
>
> Does this give any clue?

I'm afraid given the lousy quality of the schematic scan and my non-familiarity
with jokerz in particular we might have to call this one relatively prematurely.
Just don't have enough to speculate on, sorry!

[GlebeCS]

Hi, probe is fine and I am pretty sure I got it right (apart from
writing J12 when i meant J21)

The sound test runs exactly the same regardless of whether the ribbon is
connected or not.

I think I have more or less every part I need to totally rebuild the
sound board, but I managed to pick up a system 11A CPU board on eBay on
Tuesday, will swap that in when it arrives first so I can eliminate
anything other than the sound board.

Thanks for your help, hopefully I will report back when I get the issue
resolved

[TheKorn]

GlebeCS <an...@glebecomputers.co.uk> wrote in news:GlebeCS...@rrgparchive.com:

> Hi, probe is fine and I am pretty sure I got it right (apart from
> writing J12 when i meant J21)
>
> The sound test runs exactly the same regardless of whether the ribbon is
> connected or not.

Hmmm, well that would lend credence to the idea that the sound duties are split
between the CPU board and the sound board. Ugh; I dislike troubleshooting sounds in
this vintage because of the split responsibilities.

> I think I have more or less every part I need to totally rebuild the
> sound board, but I managed to pick up a system 11A CPU board on eBay on
> Tuesday, will swap that in when it arrives first so I can eliminate
> anything other than the sound board.

It's definitely worth trying, as it's possible the sounds that are in error are
generated on the CPU board instead of the sound board. (Doubly so since it won't
cost you anything!)

[GlebeCS]

Hi guys, my 11A CPU board arrived today and I have just fitted it, sound
is working 100%.

So now to find the cause of the issue, would the RAM at U23 be favourite
do you think?

Is there anything I can check now the 11B board is out?

Thanks,

[GlebeCS]

Also, I meant to add that I have bought a Jokerz Manual/Schematics today
and when it arrives (from Canada to UK so could be a while), I will try
and sort out an improved scan for IPDB, anyone here who wants it emailed
let me know.

[TheKorn]

GlebeCS <an...@glebecomputers.co.uk> wrote in news:GlebeCS...@rrgparchive.com:

> Hi guys, my 11A CPU board arrived today and I have just fitted it, sound
> is working 100%.
>
> So now to find the cause of the issue, would the RAM at U23 be favourite
> do you think?
>
> Is there anything I can check now the 11B board is out?

U23 is in the mix, but I'd also check U9. (I'd swap U9 with another PIA on the
board, see if the problem moves.)

[GlebeCS]

Thanks, I will give those a look next week as I am at the South Coast
Slam (UK pinball and video game weekend) this weekend.

One new problem since swapping the CPU boards has appeared, the bottom
row/line of the top display (players 1 & 2) was dropping out
intermittently for an hour and then went out completely, wont light up
at all now, I have checked the ribbon cable and that seems fine, a
problem with the new board or display board? Seems likely there is some
issue on the new CPU board.

Thanks again,

[TheKorn]

GlebeCS <an...@glebecomputers.co.uk> wrote in news:GlebeCS...@rrgparchive.com:

> Thanks, I will give those a look next week as I am at the South Coast
> Slam (UK pinball and video game weekend) this weekend.
>
> One new problem since swapping the CPU boards has appeared, the bottom
> row/line of the top display (players 1 & 2) was dropping out
> intermittently for an hour and then went out completely, wont light up
> at all now, I have checked the ribbon cable and that seems fine, a
> problem with the new board or display board? Seems likely there is some
> issue on the new CPU board.

How about let's finish fishing with one can of worms before opening up another? :)

[GlebeCS]

That sounds like a plan, I will update this next week,

[GlebeCS]

Update time.

I replaced the U23 RAM and my original board now works with correct
sounds (woohooo)

Now I would like to get the spare board 100% before I store it, the
issue as described is 1 line right at the bottom of all numbers/letters
on player 1 and 2 displays is out, this does not however seem to affect
the comma.

I have tested SCR2-SCR5 and resistance reads correct, what would you
suggest my next move is , should I test the 6821 at U41 and if so how
can I do this?

Thanks,

[TheKorn]

GlebeCS <an...@glebecomputers.co.uk> wrote in news:GlebeCS...@rrgparchive.com:

> Update time.
>
> I replaced the U23 RAM and my original board now works with correct
> sounds (woohooo)

Cool.

> Now I would like to get the spare board 100% before I store it, the
> issue as described is 1 line right at the bottom of all numbers/letters
> on player 1 and 2 displays is out, this does not however seem to affect
> the comma.
>
> I have tested SCR2-SCR5 and resistance reads correct, what would you
> suggest my next move is , should I test the 6821 at U41 and if so how
> can I do this?

It may sound stuffy, but I'd highly recommend starting a brand new thread on this
topic. That way people who know they don't know anything about sound boards (but
do know about displays) won't skip over it.

(Waiting to post steps for that thread, to keep things compartmentalized. ;) )

[GlebeCS]

Sounds sensible to me, will do it now.