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Sys11 Pinbot High Score Reset
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Rosemountain
Dec 11, 2011, 7:49:07 PM12/11/11
to
I guess I have 3 questions:
My Credit button stopped working and I think I traced it down to the
High Score Reset button , it is the first switch on the column, the
diod got detached from the right middle connector and the connector
broke off from the actual switch. Anyone know of a way to bypass this
or do I have to replace the diod and swich ?
During the Switch Edge test none of the switches seem to work along
that line, is also possible the board is damaged at this point ?
Would I expect the other switches to work since they are "farther"
down the line from the High Score Reset issue ?
My Credit button stopped working and I think I traced it down to the
High Score Reset button , it is the first switch on the column, the
diod got detached from the right middle connector and the connector
broke off from the actual switch. Anyone know of a way to bypass this
or do I have to replace the diod and swich ?
During the Switch Edge test none of the switches seem to work along
that line, is also possible the board is damaged at this point ?
Would I expect the other switches to work since they are "farther"
down the line from the High Score Reset issue ?
TheKorn
Dec 12, 2011, 12:46:00 AM12/12/11
to
Rosemountain <rosemoun...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:6a87b588-f05b-4d63-8548-
12f72f...@d17g2000yql.googlegroups.com:
> I guess I have 3 questions:
>
> My Credit button stopped working and I think I traced it down to the
> High Score Reset button
By credit button, do you mean the start button or one of the coin switches? (I
think you mean start switch, just want to be sure.)
> it is the first switch on the column, the
> diod got detached from the right middle connector and the connector
> broke off from the actual switch. Anyone know of a way to bypass this
> or do I have to replace the diod and swich ?
That wouldn't keep other switches from working, but would obviously keep THAT
switch from working. Unless the daisy-chain going into / out-of that switch was
broken in the process; that would cause other switches wired downstream from that
one not to work.
> During the Switch Edge test none of the switches seem to work along
> that line, is also possible the board is damaged at this point ?
Sure, it's possible. Test it and find out:
Put game in switch edge test. Pull off 1J8, 1J10, and 1J9 (1J9 is probably empty
already). Then test from each pin in 1J8 to each pin in 1J10... 1J8-1 to 1J10-1,
1J8-2 to 1J10-1, 1J8-3 to 1J10-1, etc... then 1J8-1 to 1J10-2, etc.
1J8 are the switch matrix columns, 1J10 are the switch matrix rows.
> Would I expect the other switches to work since they are "farther"
> down the line from the High Score Reset issue ?
Where the switches are in the switch matrix is not directly relevant. The key
factor is 'as the wire flies', as the wires daisy-chain from one switch to the
next in the same column, and also from one switch to the next in the same row.
So, let's say you have a switch in column 3, and it's at the back of the
playfield. Could be row 3, could be row 6, doesn't matter; the wire goes there
first to minimize the amount of wire. Then another wire goes from that switch to
the next switch in that column. Then a wire goes from THAT switch to the next
switch in the column, etc ad nauseum.
--
Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the web or
on DVD?
http://www.webwidevideo.com/
12f72f...@d17g2000yql.googlegroups.com:
> I guess I have 3 questions:
>
> My Credit button stopped working and I think I traced it down to the
> High Score Reset button
think you mean start switch, just want to be sure.)
> it is the first switch on the column, the
> diod got detached from the right middle connector and the connector
> broke off from the actual switch. Anyone know of a way to bypass this
> or do I have to replace the diod and swich ?
switch from working. Unless the daisy-chain going into / out-of that switch was
broken in the process; that would cause other switches wired downstream from that
one not to work.
> During the Switch Edge test none of the switches seem to work along
> that line, is also possible the board is damaged at this point ?
Put game in switch edge test. Pull off 1J8, 1J10, and 1J9 (1J9 is probably empty
already). Then test from each pin in 1J8 to each pin in 1J10... 1J8-1 to 1J10-1,
1J8-2 to 1J10-1, 1J8-3 to 1J10-1, etc... then 1J8-1 to 1J10-2, etc.
1J8 are the switch matrix columns, 1J10 are the switch matrix rows.
> Would I expect the other switches to work since they are "farther"
> down the line from the High Score Reset issue ?
factor is 'as the wire flies', as the wires daisy-chain from one switch to the
next in the same column, and also from one switch to the next in the same row.
So, let's say you have a switch in column 3, and it's at the back of the
playfield. Could be row 3, could be row 6, doesn't matter; the wire goes there
first to minimize the amount of wire. Then another wire goes from that switch to
the next switch in that column. Then a wire goes from THAT switch to the next
switch in the column, etc ad nauseum.
--
Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the web or
on DVD?
http://www.webwidevideo.com/
Rosemountain
Dec 12, 2011, 6:59:32 AM12/12/11
to
On Dec 12, 12:46 am, TheKorn <TheK...@TheKorn.Net> wrote:
> Rosemountain <rosemountain2...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:6a87b588-f05b-4d63-8548-
> 12f72f9e8...@d17g2000yql.googlegroups.com:
Correct, the Start button. But that was just the first switch I
noticed not working. Once I got into the Switch tests I realized
that none of the switches along that column are working. I started
tracing the Green - Brown wire back to look for a short and
found the disconnected diod at the High Score Reset button (the last
switch on that column).
Thanks for confirming that the others still should work as I do not
see any direct evidence of a broken wire along that chain (only the
diod on the last one).
I believe the diod is there to prevent a spike of current from being
sent back to the board and possibly damage it, right ?
Thanks for the info on testing the board. Is there a specific jumper
wire I should use, or any wire connected from one to the other will
work? I'm assuming the game can
be left in the 'on' position while jumping each one and testing in
Switch Edge mode ?
Thanks again!
> Rosemountain <rosemountain2...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:6a87b588-f05b-4d63-8548-
> 12f72f9e8...@d17g2000yql.googlegroups.com:
noticed not working. Once I got into the Switch tests I realized
that none of the switches along that column are working. I started
tracing the Green - Brown wire back to look for a short and
found the disconnected diod at the High Score Reset button (the last
switch on that column).
Thanks for confirming that the others still should work as I do not
see any direct evidence of a broken wire along that chain (only the
diod on the last one).
I believe the diod is there to prevent a spike of current from being
sent back to the board and possibly damage it, right ?
Thanks for the info on testing the board. Is there a specific jumper
wire I should use, or any wire connected from one to the other will
work? I'm assuming the game can
be left in the 'on' position while jumping each one and testing in
Switch Edge mode ?
Thanks again!
TheKorn
Dec 12, 2011, 8:24:14 AM12/12/11
to
Rosemountain <rosemoun...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:29f79d9c-3e5f-4509...@e2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
> Correct, the Start button. But that was just the first switch I
> noticed not working. Once I got into the Switch tests I realized
> that none of the switches along that column are working. I started
> tracing the Green - Brown wire back to look for a short and
> found the disconnected diod at the High Score Reset button (the last
> switch on that column).
See, I'm really confused why you're saying it's the last switch on that column.
By wire, it isn't. And by wire is the *only* thing that matters; position in the
switch matrix is NOT indicitive of its position on the wire.
> Thanks for confirming that the others still should work as I do not
> see any direct evidence of a broken wire along that chain (only the
> diod on the last one).
> I believe the diod is there to prevent a spike of current from being
> sent back to the board and possibly damage it, right ?
No. You're correct if you're talking about a solenoid, but we're talking about a
switch here. The diode is to prevent false switch readings when you have more
than one switch closed at the same time.
> Thanks for the info on testing the board. Is there a specific jumper
> wire I should use, or any wire connected from one to the other will
> work?
Nope any old wire will do, as long as it doesn't have any breaks in it.
> I'm assuming the game can
> be left in the 'on' position while jumping each one and testing in
> Switch Edge mode ?
It'd be pretty damn difficult to get the game to get results from switch edge test
with the game off! :)
news:29f79d9c-3e5f-4509...@e2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
> Correct, the Start button. But that was just the first switch I
> noticed not working. Once I got into the Switch tests I realized
> that none of the switches along that column are working. I started
> tracing the Green - Brown wire back to look for a short and
> found the disconnected diod at the High Score Reset button (the last
> switch on that column).
By wire, it isn't. And by wire is the *only* thing that matters; position in the
switch matrix is NOT indicitive of its position on the wire.
> Thanks for confirming that the others still should work as I do not
> see any direct evidence of a broken wire along that chain (only the
> diod on the last one).
> I believe the diod is there to prevent a spike of current from being
> sent back to the board and possibly damage it, right ?
switch here. The diode is to prevent false switch readings when you have more
than one switch closed at the same time.
> Thanks for the info on testing the board. Is there a specific jumper
> wire I should use, or any wire connected from one to the other will
> work?
> I'm assuming the game can
> be left in the 'on' position while jumping each one and testing in
> Switch Edge mode ?
with the game off! :)
Rosemountain
Dec 12, 2011, 9:13:50 AM12/12/11
to
On Dec 12, 8:24 am, TheKorn <TheK...@TheKorn.Net> wrote:
I look at the manual switch matrix sheet
it just shows up as the last one in that column that also reflects the
fact that it is farthest from the board.
> > Thanks for confirming that the others still should work as I do not
> > see any direct evidence of a broken wire along that chain (only the
> > diod on the last one).
> > I believe the diod is there to prevent a spike of current from being
> > sent back to the board and possibly damage it, right ?
>
> No. You're correct if you're talking about a solenoid, but we're talking about a
> switch here. The diode is to prevent false switch readings when you have more
> than one switch closed at the same time.
>
Interesting point , so is it safe to assume the possiblity that the
disconnected diod might not
have anyting to do with the entire line of switches along that chain
not working ?
> > Thanks for the info on testing the board. Is there a specific jumper
> > wire I should use, or any wire connected from one to the other will
> > work?
>
> Nope any old wire will do, as long as it doesn't have any breaks in it.
>
> > I'm assuming the game can
> > be left in the 'on' position while jumping each one and testing in
> > Switch Edge mode ?
>
> It'd be pretty damn difficult to get the game to get results from switch edge test
> with the game off! :)
Yeah, that was funny the way I phrased that. I definitely need the
unit on to test. I was just
checking to see if it is safe to have it on as I jump from one to
another on the board. As apposed to
turn it off ...place the jumper...turn it on...test the switch and so
on...Thanks for confirming and the humor...
I really appreciate your help...Ill be able to give your suggestions a
shot tonight.
> Rosemountain <rosemountain2...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:29f79d9c-3e5f-4509...@e2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com:
>
> > Correct, the Start button. But that was just the first switch I
> > noticed not working. Once I got into the Switch tests I realized
> > that none of the switches along that column are working. I started
> > tracing the Green - Brown wire back to look for a short and
> > found the disconnected diod at the High Score Reset button (the last
> > switch on that column).
>
> See, I'm really confused why you're saying it's the last switch on that column.
> By wire, it isn't. And by wire is the *only* thing that matters; position in the
> switch matrix is NOT indicitive of its position on the wire.
>
I guess I mean it is the last switch along the wire from the board. If
>
> > Correct, the Start button. But that was just the first switch I
> > noticed not working. Once I got into the Switch tests I realized
> > that none of the switches along that column are working. I started
> > tracing the Green - Brown wire back to look for a short and
> > found the disconnected diod at the High Score Reset button (the last
> > switch on that column).
>
> See, I'm really confused why you're saying it's the last switch on that column.
> By wire, it isn't. And by wire is the *only* thing that matters; position in the
> switch matrix is NOT indicitive of its position on the wire.
>
I look at the manual switch matrix sheet
it just shows up as the last one in that column that also reflects the
fact that it is farthest from the board.
> > Thanks for confirming that the others still should work as I do not
> > see any direct evidence of a broken wire along that chain (only the
> > diod on the last one).
> > I believe the diod is there to prevent a spike of current from being
> > sent back to the board and possibly damage it, right ?
>
> No. You're correct if you're talking about a solenoid, but we're talking about a
> switch here. The diode is to prevent false switch readings when you have more
> than one switch closed at the same time.
>
disconnected diod might not
have anyting to do with the entire line of switches along that chain
not working ?
> > Thanks for the info on testing the board. Is there a specific jumper
> > wire I should use, or any wire connected from one to the other will
> > work?
>
> Nope any old wire will do, as long as it doesn't have any breaks in it.
>
> > I'm assuming the game can
> > be left in the 'on' position while jumping each one and testing in
> > Switch Edge mode ?
>
> It'd be pretty damn difficult to get the game to get results from switch edge test
> with the game off! :)
unit on to test. I was just
checking to see if it is safe to have it on as I jump from one to
another on the board. As apposed to
turn it off ...place the jumper...turn it on...test the switch and so
on...Thanks for confirming and the humor...
I really appreciate your help...Ill be able to give your suggestions a
shot tonight.
TheKorn
Dec 12, 2011, 10:39:26 AM12/12/11
to
Rosemountain <rosemoun...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:ff3509f3-4e4f-4dd5...@f33g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
>> No. You're correct if you're talking about a solenoid, but we're
>> talking about a
>> switch here. The diode is to prevent false switch readings when you
>> have more
>> than one switch closed at the same time.
>
> Interesting point , so is it safe to assume the possiblity that the
> disconnected diod might not
> have anyting to do with the entire line of switches along that chain
> not working ?
More than likely the disconnected diode is unrelated, *unless* there it introduces
a short to ground which would bring down that entire column. (By having that free
end touch something it shouldn't, such as ground.)
>> > I'm assuming the game can
>> > be left in the 'on' position while jumping each one and testing in
>> > Switch Edge mode ?
>>
>> It'd be pretty damn difficult to get the game to get results from
>> switch edge test with the game off! :)
>
> Yeah, that was funny the way I phrased that. I definitely need the
> unit on to test. I was just
> checking to see if it is safe to have it on as I jump from one to
> another on the board. As apposed to
> turn it off ...place the jumper...turn it on...test the switch and so
> on...Thanks for confirming and the humor...
>
> I really appreciate your help...Ill be able to give your suggestions a
> shot tonight.
Oh yeah, you'll be fine going from pin to pin with the game still on. Worst case,
you'll hit two pins and then get two rows or two columns of switches reporting.
That won't hurt anything. (It won't help you diagnose anything, but it won't
cause a problem, either.)
news:ff3509f3-4e4f-4dd5...@f33g2000yqh.googlegroups.com:
>> No. You're correct if you're talking about a solenoid, but we're
>> talking about a
>> switch here. The diode is to prevent false switch readings when you
>> have more
>> than one switch closed at the same time.
>
> Interesting point , so is it safe to assume the possiblity that the
> disconnected diod might not
> have anyting to do with the entire line of switches along that chain
> not working ?
a short to ground which would bring down that entire column. (By having that free
end touch something it shouldn't, such as ground.)
>> > I'm assuming the game can
>> > be left in the 'on' position while jumping each one and testing in
>> > Switch Edge mode ?
>>
>> It'd be pretty damn difficult to get the game to get results from
>> switch edge test with the game off! :)
>
> Yeah, that was funny the way I phrased that. I definitely need the
> unit on to test. I was just
> checking to see if it is safe to have it on as I jump from one to
> another on the board. As apposed to
> turn it off ...place the jumper...turn it on...test the switch and so
> on...Thanks for confirming and the humor...
>
> I really appreciate your help...Ill be able to give your suggestions a
> shot tonight.
you'll hit two pins and then get two rows or two columns of switches reporting.
That won't hurt anything. (It won't help you diagnose anything, but it won't
cause a problem, either.)
Rosemountain
Dec 12, 2011, 5:50:16 PM12/12/11
to
On Dec 12, 10:39 am, TheKorn <TheK...@TheKorn.Net> wrote:
> http://www.webwidevideo.com/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Board test shows that all switchs along that line work at the board.
So since within the cabinet it is all switches related to the same
wire (Green / Brown), I traced the wire all the way from the board to
the last switch in the line and could not find the obvious disconnect
or short.
Don't laugh but about a month ago a buddy of mine was playing it and
he says to me "hey, I lost a ball!". Somehow a ball dissapeard from
play. Of course he has no clue where it went. I looked for a while and
then just broke down and put another ball in play from my spare
parts. Game seemed to work fine for a while until this issue. Have
you ever seen a case where a ball slips into the gap between the
playfield and where the wires go and get stuck in there possibly
causing a short somewhere?
>
> - Show quoted text -
Board test shows that all switchs along that line work at the board.
So since within the cabinet it is all switches related to the same
wire (Green / Brown), I traced the wire all the way from the board to
the last switch in the line and could not find the obvious disconnect
or short.
Don't laugh but about a month ago a buddy of mine was playing it and
he says to me "hey, I lost a ball!". Somehow a ball dissapeard from
play. Of course he has no clue where it went. I looked for a while and
then just broke down and put another ball in play from my spare
parts. Game seemed to work fine for a while until this issue. Have
you ever seen a case where a ball slips into the gap between the
playfield and where the wires go and get stuck in there possibly
causing a short somewhere?
KenH
Dec 13, 2011, 8:30:13 AM12/13/11
to
> you ever seen a case where a ball slips into the gap between the
> playfield and where the wires go and get stuck in there possibly
> causing a short somewhere?
Switch test (not the switch edge test) would show if a switch were
> playfield and where the wires go and get stuck in there possibly
> causing a short somewhere?
stuck on.
This is just me, but if I were facing this problem, I'd do this test
on the suspect column. This test eliminates or confirms the PF as the
problem:
http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Switch_Matrix_Row_and_Column_Testing
If the column confirms as 'bad' (no switch number response) in the
test, then you have isolated the problem to the MPU and may have a bad
transistor or other component on the MPU that drives that column.
If the test is successful, then you have isolated the problem to the
PF.
TheKorn
Dec 13, 2011, 8:34:51 AM12/13/11
to
Rosemountain <rosemoun...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:fa4c7dc4-e8ee-4c26...@u32g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> Board test shows that all switchs along that line work at the board.
> So since within the cabinet it is all switches related to the same
> wire (Green / Brown), I traced the wire all the way from the board to
> the last switch in the line and could not find the obvious disconnect
> or short.
Well, then the next thing is to do what I call a 'long continuity' test. Put your
meter on continuity, and grab a long piece of wire. Hook one probe to one end of
the wire, hook another probe to the other end of the wire. See if it's continuous
or not.
Also, have you checked continuity on the switch itself when it's pushed in? Maybe
you just have a bad switch.
> Don't laugh but about a month ago a buddy of mine was playing it and
> he says to me "hey, I lost a ball!". Somehow a ball dissapeard from
> play. Of course he has no clue where it went.
Check *inside* your slingshots. Failing that, check behind rubbers; if they're
loose they can sometimes allow a ball to slip past.
> I looked for a while and
> then just broke down and put another ball in play from my spare
> parts. Game seemed to work fine for a while until this issue. Have
> you ever seen a case where a ball slips into the gap between the
> playfield and where the wires go and get stuck in there possibly
> causing a short somewhere?
Nope. That'd be a first. I HAVE had balls fall into the cabinet for various
reasons, but you'll hear that.
news:fa4c7dc4-e8ee-4c26...@u32g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> Board test shows that all switchs along that line work at the board.
> So since within the cabinet it is all switches related to the same
> wire (Green / Brown), I traced the wire all the way from the board to
> the last switch in the line and could not find the obvious disconnect
> or short.
meter on continuity, and grab a long piece of wire. Hook one probe to one end of
the wire, hook another probe to the other end of the wire. See if it's continuous
or not.
Also, have you checked continuity on the switch itself when it's pushed in? Maybe
you just have a bad switch.
> Don't laugh but about a month ago a buddy of mine was playing it and
> he says to me "hey, I lost a ball!". Somehow a ball dissapeard from
> play. Of course he has no clue where it went.
loose they can sometimes allow a ball to slip past.
> I looked for a while and
> then just broke down and put another ball in play from my spare
> parts. Game seemed to work fine for a while until this issue. Have
> you ever seen a case where a ball slips into the gap between the
> playfield and where the wires go and get stuck in there possibly
> causing a short somewhere?
reasons, but you'll hear that.
KenH
Dec 13, 2011, 8:56:30 AM12/13/11
to
>>>Board test shows that all switchs along that line work at the board.
Ok, I didn't see that, never mind what I said.
But switch test (not the edge test) would show a stuck on (shorted)
switch.
TheKorn
Dec 13, 2011, 8:57:56 AM12/13/11
to
TheKorn <The...@TheKorn.Net> wrote in
news:Xns9FBA4D1F3...@69.16.185.252:
> Well, then the next thing is to do what I call a 'long continuity'
> test. Put your meter on continuity, and grab a long piece of wire.
> Hook one probe to one end of the wire, hook another probe to the other
> end of the wire. See if it's continuous or not.
Er... test the continuity of the wire in the game (going from the head to the start
button) using the extra length of wire you grabbed. (I suppose for good measure you
should also test that length of wire, make sure IT'S continuous as well before you
do that! :) )
news:Xns9FBA4D1F3...@69.16.185.252:
> Well, then the next thing is to do what I call a 'long continuity'
> test. Put your meter on continuity, and grab a long piece of wire.
> Hook one probe to one end of the wire, hook another probe to the other
> end of the wire. See if it's continuous or not.
button) using the extra length of wire you grabbed. (I suppose for good measure you
should also test that length of wire, make sure IT'S continuous as well before you
do that! :) )
TheKorn
Dec 13, 2011, 8:58:41 AM12/13/11
to
KenH <klhub...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:c12c47f6-5a0c-456f-93c2-49122fa20098
@r6g2000yqr.googlegroups.com:
The words you're looking for are "switch level test". ;)
@r6g2000yqr.googlegroups.com:
KenH
Dec 13, 2011, 9:54:16 AM12/13/11
to
>
> The words you're looking for are "switch level test". ;)
>
Thats the one! Thanks!
> The words you're looking for are "switch level test". ;)
>
Rosemountain
Dec 13, 2011, 7:23:27 PM12/13/11
to
On Dec 13, 9:54 am, KenH <klhuber2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > The words you're looking for are "switch level test". ;)
>
> Thats the one! Thanks!
Alright, I connected a wire to just before that Column wire goes into
> > The words you're looking for are "switch level test". ;)
>
> Thats the one! Thanks!
the board and another one at the end of the PF (the High Score Reset)
performed a continuity test and there does not appear to be a break in
that connection.
I ran the Switch Edge test again just to be sure and like before none
of the switch along that column seem to work at all. So if the
connections in the PF seem intact and the board seems to work, what
else can it be?
If nothing else, I'm learning a lot :)
TheKorn
Dec 14, 2011, 10:16:40 AM12/14/11
to
Rosemountain <rosemoun...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:b26df6b3-ca3c-4024-bf26-
a9d6e0...@s26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> On Dec 13, 9:54 am, KenH <klhuber2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > The words you're looking for are "switch level test". ;)
>>
>> Thats the one! Thanks!
>
> Alright, I connected a wire to just before that Column wire goes into
> the board and another one at the end of the PF (the High Score Reset)
> performed a continuity test and there does not appear to be a break in
> that connection.
Well, that's only half the equation. You need to do the same test on the row wire
as well.
If that comes up clean as well, have you put your probes across the switch itself
and pushed the button?
> I ran the Switch Edge test again just to be sure and like before none
> of the switch along that column seem to work at all. So if the
> connections in the PF seem intact and the board seems to work, what
> else can it be?
It's possible that the connector itself (known as an IDC connector) is faulty.
The wires simply settle down in a v-groove, which pierces the insulation and makes
contact with the pin. If somebody yanks on the wires vs pulls on teh connector,
it's possible to get the wire to back out of that connector, which will cause it
not to connect.
A quick test would be to grab a tiny flathead screwdriver and push the wire in
1j8-1 down. If that works, IT'S ONLY TEMPORARY that it does and you need to
replace that connector for a permanent fix.
a9d6e0...@s26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
> On Dec 13, 9:54 am, KenH <klhuber2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > The words you're looking for are "switch level test". ;)
>>
>> Thats the one! Thanks!
>
> Alright, I connected a wire to just before that Column wire goes into
> the board and another one at the end of the PF (the High Score Reset)
> performed a continuity test and there does not appear to be a break in
> that connection.
as well.
If that comes up clean as well, have you put your probes across the switch itself
and pushed the button?
> I ran the Switch Edge test again just to be sure and like before none
> of the switch along that column seem to work at all. So if the
> connections in the PF seem intact and the board seems to work, what
> else can it be?
The wires simply settle down in a v-groove, which pierces the insulation and makes
contact with the pin. If somebody yanks on the wires vs pulls on teh connector,
it's possible to get the wire to back out of that connector, which will cause it
not to connect.
A quick test would be to grab a tiny flathead screwdriver and push the wire in
1j8-1 down. If that works, IT'S ONLY TEMPORARY that it does and you need to
replace that connector for a permanent fix.
TheKorn
Dec 14, 2011, 10:19:06 AM12/14/11
to
TheKorn <The...@TheKorn.Net> wrote in
news:Xns9FBB5E628...@69.16.185.252:
> It's possible that the connector itself (known as an IDC connector) is
> faulty. The wires simply settle down in a v-groove, which pierces the
> insulation and makes contact with the pin.
Er, a better way to say it is that it slices the insulation and makes contact with
the wire inside.
news:Xns9FBB5E628...@69.16.185.252:
> It's possible that the connector itself (known as an IDC connector) is
> faulty. The wires simply settle down in a v-groove, which pierces the
> insulation and makes contact with the pin.
the wire inside.
Rosemountain
Dec 17, 2011, 3:27:44 PM12/17/11
to
On Dec 14, 10:19 am, TheKorn <TheK...@TheKorn.Net> wrote:
> TheKorn <TheK...@TheKorn.Net> wrote innews:Xns9FBB5E628...@69.16.185.252:
Ok, so I focused on the Credit button switch and did a continuity test
of that Green wire all the way back to the board, that test confirmed
continuity. I then tested the Yellow wire that happens to go from the
Credit switch to the board in one straight shot. So I did a continuity
test of that yellow wire from the Credit switch to the board and that
confimed good continuity. So now, I am really at a loss. Could there
be a short somewhere else I'm missing ?
> TheKorn <TheK...@TheKorn.Net> wrote innews:Xns9FBB5E628...@69.16.185.252:
of that Green wire all the way back to the board, that test confirmed
continuity. I then tested the Yellow wire that happens to go from the
Credit switch to the board in one straight shot. So I did a continuity
test of that yellow wire from the Credit switch to the board and that
confimed good continuity. So now, I am really at a loss. Could there
be a short somewhere else I'm missing ?
TheKorn
Dec 18, 2011, 8:31:19 AM12/18/11
to
Rosemountain <rosemoun...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:d85a3b07-1c61-46de...@d10g2000vbk.googlegroups.com:
>> Er, a better way to say it is that it slices the insulation and makes
>> contact with the wire inside.
>
* You did a continuity test across the switch itself, pushed the switch in, and
had continuity, right?
* You did a continuity test on each wire, back to the head, and found each one
continuous.
* You did a switch edge test on the CPU board itself, from the column connector
to the row connector, and that column worked in that test.
* None of the switches in that column work when it's plugged in normally.
Unless I'm missing something (which is kind of why I was 'thinking out loud' up
there), I only see two possibilities here...
1) Something is shorted (either on the playfield or in the cabinet) and sending
extra voltage into the switch matrix column line, essentially 'overriding' the
closed switch. Though I would think this would be evident by blowing a 2n3904 in
the switch matrix column, which would have been shown by failing the board-only
switch matrix test.
2) This is a WAG (wild ass guess)... I've run into it on more than one occasion
that SRC6 is damaged / cracked internally, so that the game's switch matrix's
signals become garbled almost to the point of unrecognizability. In one case, the
switch matrix was failing, then as a sanity check, I checked one of my working
games and found the same thing on *just a few* of the switch columns! I replaced
SRC6 on both boards, and the switch matrix signals cleaned up on both boards, and
the original board that was exhibiting crazy switch matrix problems was fixed.
(The one that was exhibiting no symptoms but working stayed working... :) ) It's
a WAG, but maybe your board is suffering from the same syndrome?
I don't have any *really good* ideas at this point, to be honest.
Oh wait, yes I do! We can test for #1. (We can test for #2, but you'd need an
oscilloscope, and I don't expect you have one. :) )
Turn the game on (don't care what mode), and pull off 1P8. Check for DC voltage
(with reference to ground) for each pin of 1P8. Shouldn't see much of anything.
If you do, then that line has a short to it and is backfeeding voltage into the
switch matrix.
news:d85a3b07-1c61-46de...@d10g2000vbk.googlegroups.com:
>> Er, a better way to say it is that it slices the insulation and makes
>> contact with the wire inside.
>
> Ok, so I focused on the Credit button switch and did a continuity test
> of that Green wire all the way back to the board, that test confirmed
> continuity. I then tested the Yellow wire that happens to go from the
> Credit switch to the board in one straight shot. So I did a continuity
> test of that yellow wire from the Credit switch to the board and that
> confimed good continuity. So now, I am really at a loss. Could there
> be a short somewhere else I'm missing ?
Just thinking out loud here...
> of that Green wire all the way back to the board, that test confirmed
> continuity. I then tested the Yellow wire that happens to go from the
> Credit switch to the board in one straight shot. So I did a continuity
> test of that yellow wire from the Credit switch to the board and that
> confimed good continuity. So now, I am really at a loss. Could there
> be a short somewhere else I'm missing ?
* You did a continuity test across the switch itself, pushed the switch in, and
had continuity, right?
* You did a continuity test on each wire, back to the head, and found each one
continuous.
* You did a switch edge test on the CPU board itself, from the column connector
to the row connector, and that column worked in that test.
* None of the switches in that column work when it's plugged in normally.
Unless I'm missing something (which is kind of why I was 'thinking out loud' up
there), I only see two possibilities here...
1) Something is shorted (either on the playfield or in the cabinet) and sending
extra voltage into the switch matrix column line, essentially 'overriding' the
closed switch. Though I would think this would be evident by blowing a 2n3904 in
the switch matrix column, which would have been shown by failing the board-only
switch matrix test.
2) This is a WAG (wild ass guess)... I've run into it on more than one occasion
that SRC6 is damaged / cracked internally, so that the game's switch matrix's
signals become garbled almost to the point of unrecognizability. In one case, the
switch matrix was failing, then as a sanity check, I checked one of my working
games and found the same thing on *just a few* of the switch columns! I replaced
SRC6 on both boards, and the switch matrix signals cleaned up on both boards, and
the original board that was exhibiting crazy switch matrix problems was fixed.
(The one that was exhibiting no symptoms but working stayed working... :) ) It's
a WAG, but maybe your board is suffering from the same syndrome?
I don't have any *really good* ideas at this point, to be honest.
Oh wait, yes I do! We can test for #1. (We can test for #2, but you'd need an
oscilloscope, and I don't expect you have one. :) )
Turn the game on (don't care what mode), and pull off 1P8. Check for DC voltage
(with reference to ground) for each pin of 1P8. Shouldn't see much of anything.
If you do, then that line has a short to it and is backfeeding voltage into the
switch matrix.
quattrohead
Dec 18, 2011, 9:55:47 AM12/18/11
to
Has the MPU ever had leaking batteries on it ?
I had a High Speed that had almost no damage from leaking batteries,
but the switch input connector was very intermittent. I had to cut the
wires back a couple of inches and put a new connector on. Its the
connector directly down from the battery pack.
I had a High Speed that had almost no damage from leaking batteries,
but the switch input connector was very intermittent. I had to cut the
wires back a couple of inches and put a new connector on. Its the
connector directly down from the battery pack.
Rosemountain
Dec 18, 2011, 3:48:30 PM12/18/11
to
batteries were a mess and did leak.
I took out the entire batter holder and installed a new one. Not sure
where the switch input connecter is.
Ill try and find it...thanks.
Rosemountain
Dec 18, 2011, 3:54:56 PM12/18/11
to
On Dec 18, 8:31 am, TheKorn <TheK...@TheKorn.Net> wrote:
Checked for DC voltage and was not able to identify any. I did some
more testing on that one column wire from the credit button and
verified 100% that the switches are fine. I disconnected the white
connector that joins many of the wires as they start to go into the
top.
I then put the game into Switch Edge mode and used a jumper from the
terminal end of the green to go directly into the board..and they
work!
So it is only when I connect 1P8 into the board they do not work. If I
remove IP8 and jump directly to that column wire they work. I also
noticed that an entire
other column is not working so I am wonding if it is related to what
you were saying earlier. Maybe a short in the other column wire is
messing up the board
signal. Of course when I look a the other column wire and trace it
from switch to switch I do not see an obvious disconnect or short.
does this sound like the SRC6 issue you mentioned ?
more testing on that one column wire from the credit button and
verified 100% that the switches are fine. I disconnected the white
connector that joins many of the wires as they start to go into the
top.
I then put the game into Switch Edge mode and used a jumper from the
terminal end of the green to go directly into the board..and they
work!
So it is only when I connect 1P8 into the board they do not work. If I
remove IP8 and jump directly to that column wire they work. I also
noticed that an entire
other column is not working so I am wonding if it is related to what
you were saying earlier. Maybe a short in the other column wire is
messing up the board
signal. Of course when I look a the other column wire and trace it
from switch to switch I do not see an obvious disconnect or short.
does this sound like the SRC6 issue you mentioned ?
Rosemountain
Dec 19, 2011, 4:17:46 PM12/19/11
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Update: After a few hours of trying to find the issue here is what
> - Show quoted text -
'fixed' it. I found it strang that each column work work independently
if I unplugged the IJ8 connector from the board and ran a single
jumper from that to the board. But when I plugged in the IJ8 certain
columns would not work.
Must be a short somewhere ...right?
So I started to adjust the way the IJ8 was seated into the board and
after some trial and error I found a position slightly at an angle
where all of the switch columns work.
Strange..right? Anyway, I guess I can try and find the exact
short...or maybe the issue is with that connector ? Game works better
now then before as there were some switches not working before (other
then the credit switch) that now all work!
Thanks again for all the help, there is no way I could have
systematically worked this out alone.
TheKorn
Dec 19, 2011, 4:30:56 PM12/19/11
to
Rosemountain <rosemoun...@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:466c67eb-5a88-470d...@p20g2000vbm.googlegroups.com:
> So I started to adjust the way the IJ8 was seated into the board and
> after some trial and error I found a position slightly at an angle
> where all of the switch columns work.
>
> Strange..right? Anyway, I guess I can try and find the exact
> short...or maybe the issue is with that connector ? Game works better
> now then before as there were some switches not working before (other
> then the credit switch) that now all work!
>
> Thanks again for all the help, there is no way I could have
> systematically worked this out alone.
D'oh... You have a broken solder joint on one of the pins of 1J8. Solder suck &
re-solder that header and you'll probably be fine.
Should have thought of that one, didn't.
news:466c67eb-5a88-470d...@p20g2000vbm.googlegroups.com:
> So I started to adjust the way the IJ8 was seated into the board and
> after some trial and error I found a position slightly at an angle
> where all of the switch columns work.
>
> Strange..right? Anyway, I guess I can try and find the exact
> short...or maybe the issue is with that connector ? Game works better
> now then before as there were some switches not working before (other
> then the credit switch) that now all work!
>
> Thanks again for all the help, there is no way I could have
> systematically worked this out alone.
re-solder that header and you'll probably be fine.
Should have thought of that one, didn't.
KenH
Dec 19, 2011, 4:51:16 PM12/19/11
to
>
> D'oh... You have a broken solder joint on one of the pins of 1J8. Solder suck &
> re-solder that header and you'll probably be fine.
or a wonky female pin or two in the IDC, but more likely the solder
> D'oh... You have a broken solder joint on one of the pins of 1J8. Solder suck &
> re-solder that header and you'll probably be fine.
joint. I'd probably replace the connector AND resolder the headers.
Borygard
Dec 19, 2011, 5:15:34 PM12/19/11
to
On Dec 14, 7:19 am, TheKorn <TheK...@TheKorn.Net> wrote:
> ...
Connector? :)
As for the angleing J8 to get it to work, with previous battery
leakage on the board, I'd suspect corroded pins before the other
stuff. Strangely the switch matrix connectors are often the first to
corrode on that board.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587
> ...
> Er, a better way to say it is that it slices the insulation and makes contact with
> the wire inside.
>
> --
> Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the web or on
> DVD?
>
> http://www.webwidevideo.com/
You mean it Displaces the Insulation on the wire going into the
> the wire inside.
>
> --
> Have a home video that's trapped on your camera? Want to share it on the web or on
> DVD?
>
> http://www.webwidevideo.com/
Connector? :)
As for the angleing J8 to get it to work, with previous battery
leakage on the board, I'd suspect corroded pins before the other
stuff. Strangely the switch matrix connectors are often the first to
corrode on that board.
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587
TheKorn
Dec 19, 2011, 6:25:53 PM12/19/11
to
Borygard <bory...@gmail.com> wrote in
news:a046752e-e17d-477b...@y18g2000yqy.googlegroups.com:
> You mean it Displaces the Insulation on the wire going into the
> Connector? :)
Never liked that term, because displacement implies that the insulation goes
somewhere else. It just smushes the insulation aside.
news:a046752e-e17d-477b...@y18g2000yqy.googlegroups.com:
> You mean it Displaces the Insulation on the wire going into the
> Connector? :)
somewhere else. It just smushes the insulation aside.
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