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Tech: TZ Problem With All Switches On Column 4
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Gordon Bowar
Feb 9, 2013, 7:39:09 PM2/9/13
to
Hi RGP'ers,
I had a loose wire on the coil for the slot machine kick-out on my
Twilight Zone and soldered it back on the lug. Now the slot machine
kick-out is working again as expected.
However, I must have introduced another problem while soldering on the
broken wire as now all of the switches on column 4 (Dead End, Camera,
Piano, Mini PF Enter, Mini PF Left, Mini PF Right, Clock Millions and
Lower Left Millions) are not working in either game play or during test
mode.
I was very careful as to not disturb any of the surrounding wiring
during the repair process for the broken wire on the slot kick-out coil,
but perhaps a solder remnant from the repair is causing a short. I am
not sure.
All of the other game switches work fine during testing. At this point
I am carefully reviewing all the under play field wiring to ensure there
are no shorts in the area of my repair.
Any suggestions for how to further troubleshoot this issue are welcome.
Gord
I had a loose wire on the coil for the slot machine kick-out on my
Twilight Zone and soldered it back on the lug. Now the slot machine
kick-out is working again as expected.
However, I must have introduced another problem while soldering on the
broken wire as now all of the switches on column 4 (Dead End, Camera,
Piano, Mini PF Enter, Mini PF Left, Mini PF Right, Clock Millions and
Lower Left Millions) are not working in either game play or during test
mode.
I was very careful as to not disturb any of the surrounding wiring
during the repair process for the broken wire on the slot kick-out coil,
but perhaps a solder remnant from the repair is causing a short. I am
not sure.
All of the other game switches work fine during testing. At this point
I am carefully reviewing all the under play field wiring to ensure there
are no shorts in the area of my repair.
Any suggestions for how to further troubleshoot this issue are welcome.
Gord
phishrace
Feb 9, 2013, 7:51:53 PM2/9/13
to
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Switch_Matrix_Problems
-phish
TDJ
Feb 9, 2013, 8:09:43 PM2/9/13
to
Was the power on or off when you repaired the coil? If off I would
think a wire broke / fell off a switch. Check continuity with a DMM
alont that column.
On Sat, 09 Feb 2013 17:39:09 -0700, Gordon Bowar
<gordo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi RGP'ers,
>
>I had a loose wire on the coil for the slot machine kick-out on my
>Twilight Zone and soldered it back on the lug. Now the slot machine
>kick-out is working again as expected.
>
>However, I must have introduced another problem while soldering on the
>broken wire as now all of the switches on column 4 (Dead End, Camera,
>Piano, Mini PF Enter, Mini PF Left, Mini PF Right, Clock Millions and
>Lower Left Millions) are not working in either game play or during test
>mode.
>
>I was very careful as to not disturb any of the surrounding wir
think a wire broke / fell off a switch. Check continuity with a DMM
alont that column.
On Sat, 09 Feb 2013 17:39:09 -0700, Gordon Bowar
<gordo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi RGP'ers,
>
>I had a loose wire on the coil for the slot machine kick-out on my
>Twilight Zone and soldered it back on the lug. Now the slot machine
>kick-out is working again as expected.
>
>However, I must have introduced another problem while soldering on the
>broken wire as now all of the switches on column 4 (Dead End, Camera,
>Piano, Mini PF Enter, Mini PF Left, Mini PF Right, Clock Millions and
>Lower Left Millions) are not working in either game play or during test
>mode.
>
>I was very careful as to not disturb any of the surrounding wir
Gordon Bowar
Feb 9, 2013, 8:39:13 PM2/9/13
to
column 4. Thanks.
Gordon Bowar
Feb 9, 2013, 9:13:59 PM2/9/13
to
jumper and all switches made with the exception of the switches on
column 4 where none of the switches made. I am leaning towards an under
play field short or broken wire for the green/yellow wire on column 4.
I will keep searching.
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Switch_Matrix_Problems
Thanks.
Chris Hibler
Feb 9, 2013, 9:40:21 PM2/9/13
to
>
> Thanks.
Gordon,
You can rule out the PF.
Te test you did, and the results, indicate a problem on the MPU. The
switch matrix has failed.
Examine your MPU for alkaline damage, especially around U20, a
ULN2803.
Next, with a logic probe, see if U20, pin 15 is pulsing. Set the probe
to the CMOS setting. Compare to pin 16, which is column 3.
Post results for further guidance.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info
Gordon Bowar
Feb 10, 2013, 10:27:54 AM2/10/13
to
I will examine the MPU for alkaline damage shortly. I have a remote
battery holder and have had one for several years on my TZ so I wouldn't
expect to find alkaline damage, but I will check and report back.
I am also not sure how repairing a broken wire on a coil, with the power
off, could have caused this, although I did see an errant solder remnant
fall off the coil lug during the soldering process. When you say use a
logic probe I assume that you are referencing a DMM. Would that be
correct? Also which setting is the CMOS setting (symbol) on the DMM?
I apologize for the rudimentary questions, but this is my first foray
into checking chips on the CPU board so I am not very familiar with the
procedures involved.
Gord
Sean Casey
Feb 10, 2013, 10:32:14 AM2/10/13
to
The broken wire probably touched the switch wire before you knew it was
broken and sent 70 volts up the switch matrix.
Sean
--
Sean Casey
Easily Amused Pinball
www.eapinball.com
408/888-0805
broken and sent 70 volts up the switch matrix.
Sean
Sean Casey
Easily Amused Pinball
www.eapinball.com
408/888-0805
Gordon Bowar
Feb 10, 2013, 10:38:25 AM2/10/13
to
Gord
Chris Hibler
Feb 10, 2013, 10:39:11 AM2/10/13
to
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> I will examine the MPU for alkaline damage shortly. I have a remote
> battery holder and have had one for several years on my TZ so I wouldn't
> expect to find alkaline damage, but I will check and report back.
>
> I am also not sure how repairing a broken wire on a coil, with the power
> off, could have caused this, although I did see an errant solder remnant
> fall off the coil lug during the soldering process. When you say use a
> logic probe I assume that you are referencing a DMM. Would that be
> correct? Also which setting is the CMOS setting (symbol) on the DMM?
>
> I apologize for the rudimentary questions, but this is my first foray
> into checking chips on the CPU board so I am not very familiar with the
> procedures involved.
>
> Gord
http://www.amazon.com/Elenco-Electronics-LP-560-Logic-Probe/dp/B000Z9HAP4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360510370&sr=8-1&keywords=Logic+probe
> Hi Chris,
>
> I will examine the MPU for alkaline damage shortly. I have a remote
> battery holder and have had one for several years on my TZ so I wouldn't
> expect to find alkaline damage, but I will check and report back.
>
> I am also not sure how repairing a broken wire on a coil, with the power
> off, could have caused this, although I did see an errant solder remnant
> fall off the coil lug during the soldering process. When you say use a
> logic probe I assume that you are referencing a DMM. Would that be
> correct? Also which setting is the CMOS setting (symbol) on the DMM?
>
> I apologize for the rudimentary questions, but this is my first foray
> into checking chips on the CPU board so I am not very familiar with the
> procedures involved.
>
> Gord
That's a logic probe...
We can use a DMM though.
Black lead on game ground...the ground braid in the head is good.
Red lead on one of the pins I mentioned, then the other. Compare
voltages. Any difference?
It does seem very odd that this failure would crop up at the same
time. If the drop of solder bridged the switch matrix circuit to other
circuits, this might happen. It would be extremely bad luck for this
to have happened.
Gordon Bowar
Feb 10, 2013, 11:36:12 AM2/10/13
to
On chip U20 there are 18 pins, I assume that they are numbered 1-9 left
to right on top and 9-18 left to right on the bottom. Hopefully that is
correct.
I measured voltage on Pin 15 at 7.17 and then on pin 16 at 11.88. Also
I did inspect for alkaline damage and the MPU board is clean as a
whistle which I would expect with the remote battery holders.
So at this point is the U20 chip hosed? I noticed a strange looking
defect in a connector under where the solder remnant ended up. I will
attempt to get a photo of that connector and upload it and post the
link. Perhaps that caused the bridging that you had mentioned earlier?
Gord
Gordon Bowar
Feb 10, 2013, 12:07:52 PM2/10/13
to
See the photos below for the connector, J4 from the 10-Switch Opto PCB
Assembly (A-16807), that appears to be where the errant solder remnant
ended up. This area is directly below the slot kicker coil when the
play field is up which is where I repaired the broken coil wire.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/dscn3104n.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/dscn3100w.jpg/
Could this have caused the circuit bridging that you spoke about?
Gord
Borygard
Feb 10, 2013, 1:44:38 PM2/10/13
to
Holy crap, that poor opto board! That's a perfect example why you
shouldn't put a soldering iron to a PCB if you don't have enough
experience to not destroy a board. Not saying you Gord, just whoever
blue-wired that poor board.
A chip's pins are counted in a u-shape from pin-1 down the IC to the
bottom, the directly across the chip and back up it. So in the case
of a 2803, pin-1 will be directly across the chip from pin-18, each at
the top of the "U".
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587
> >>>>http://www.PinWiki.com-The new place for pinball repair info
shouldn't put a soldering iron to a PCB if you don't have enough
experience to not destroy a board. Not saying you Gord, just whoever
blue-wired that poor board.
A chip's pins are counted in a u-shape from pin-1 down the IC to the
bottom, the directly across the chip and back up it. So in the case
of a 2803, pin-1 will be directly across the chip from pin-18, each at
the top of the "U".
--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
314-766-4587
>
> >>> Hi Chris,
>
> >>> I will examine the MPU for alkaline damage shortly. I have a remote
> >>> battery holder and have had one for several years on my TZ so I wouldn't
> >>> expect to find alkaline damage, but I will check and report back.
>
> >>> I am also not sure how repairing a broken wire on a coil, with the power
> >>> off, could have caused this, although I did see an errant solder remnant
> >>> fall off the coil lug during the soldering process. When you say use a
> >>> logic probe I assume that you are referencing a DMM. Would that be
> >>> correct? Also which setting is the CMOS setting (symbol) on the DMM?
>
> >>> I apologize for the rudimentary questions, but this is my first foray
> >>> into checking chips on the CPU board so I am not very familiar with the
> >>> procedures involved.
>
> >>> Gord
>
> >>http://www.amazon.com/Elenco-Electronics-LP-560-Logic-Probe/dp/B000Z9...
> >>> Hi Chris,
>
> >>> I will examine the MPU for alkaline damage shortly. I have a remote
> >>> battery holder and have had one for several years on my TZ so I wouldn't
> >>> expect to find alkaline damage, but I will check and report back.
>
> >>> I am also not sure how repairing a broken wire on a coil, with the power
> >>> off, could have caused this, although I did see an errant solder remnant
> >>> fall off the coil lug during the soldering process. When you say use a
> >>> logic probe I assume that you are referencing a DMM. Would that be
> >>> correct? Also which setting is the CMOS setting (symbol) on the DMM?
>
> >>> I apologize for the rudimentary questions, but this is my first foray
> >>> into checking chips on the CPU board so I am not very familiar with the
> >>> procedures involved.
>
> >>> Gord
>
>
> >> That's a logic probe...
> >> We can use a DMM though.
>
> >> Black lead on game ground...the ground braid in the head is good.
> >> Red lead on one of the pins I mentioned, then the other. Compare
> >> voltages. Any difference?
>
> >> It does seem very odd that this failure would crop up at the same
> >> time. If the drop of solder bridged the switch matrix circuit to other
> >> circuits, this might happen. It would be extremely bad luck for this
> >> to have happened.
> >> --
> >> Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
> >>http://www.Team-EM.com
> >>http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
> >> That's a logic probe...
> >> We can use a DMM though.
>
> >> Black lead on game ground...the ground braid in the head is good.
> >> Red lead on one of the pins I mentioned, then the other. Compare
> >> voltages. Any difference?
>
> >> It does seem very odd that this failure would crop up at the same
> >> time. If the drop of solder bridged the switch matrix circuit to other
> >> circuits, this might happen. It would be extremely bad luck for this
> >> to have happened.
> >> --
> >> Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
> >>http://www.Team-EM.com
> >>http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
> > Chris,
>
> > On chip U20 there are 18 pins, I assume that they are numbered 1-9 left
> > to right on top and 9-18 left to right on the bottom. Hopefully that is
> > correct.
>
> > I measured voltage on Pin 15 at 7.17 and then on pin 16 at 11.88. Also
> > I did inspect for alkaline damage and the MPU board is clean as a
> > whistle which I would expect with the remote battery holders.
>
> > So at this point is the U20 chip hosed? I noticed a strange looking
> > defect in a connector under where the solder remnant ended up. I will
> > attempt to get a photo of that connector and upload it and post the
> > link. Perhaps that caused the bridging that you had mentioned earlier?
>
> > Gord
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> See the photos below for the connector, J4 from the 10-Switch Opto PCB
> Assembly (A-16807), that appears to be where the errant solder remnant
> ended up. This area is directly below the slot kicker coil when the
> play field is up which is where I repaired the broken coil wire.
>
> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/dscn3104n.jpg/http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/189/dscn3100w.jpg/
>
> > On chip U20 there are 18 pins, I assume that they are numbered 1-9 left
> > to right on top and 9-18 left to right on the bottom. Hopefully that is
> > correct.
>
> > I measured voltage on Pin 15 at 7.17 and then on pin 16 at 11.88. Also
> > I did inspect for alkaline damage and the MPU board is clean as a
> > whistle which I would expect with the remote battery holders.
>
> > So at this point is the U20 chip hosed? I noticed a strange looking
> > defect in a connector under where the solder remnant ended up. I will
> > attempt to get a photo of that connector and upload it and post the
> > link. Perhaps that caused the bridging that you had mentioned earlier?
>
> > Gord
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> See the photos below for the connector, J4 from the 10-Switch Opto PCB
> Assembly (A-16807), that appears to be where the errant solder remnant
> ended up. This area is directly below the slot kicker coil when the
> play field is up which is where I repaired the broken coil wire.
>
Gordon Bowar
Feb 10, 2013, 2:18:58 PM2/10/13
to
Gordon Bowar
Feb 10, 2013, 2:29:30 PM2/10/13
to
That does change things a bit with the pin numbering. I took another
voltage reading on the U-20 chip on the MPU board and both pin 15 and
pin 16 read 11.88 so perhaps the U-20 chip is fine after all.
Previously I had been thinking the pin numbering is left to right 1-9 on
the top row and left to right 10-18 on the bottom row. So previously I
was actually measuring pin 13 which was at 7.17.
Gord
Gordon Bowar
Feb 12, 2013, 9:40:04 PM2/12/13
to
On 2/9/2013 7:40 PM, Chris Hibler wrote:
You are correct that the culprit was the U-20 chip on the MPU board. I
had pinball repair ace Dan Gutchess come out today and he replaced the
U-20 chip (ULN2803) and added a socket for it for easy future
replacement should the need ever arise again.
My TZ is humming along nicely now and playing 100 percent thanks to
Dan's excellent board work on the MPU board and the excellent advice
offered up here by you and several others on this thread.
Gord
Chris Hibler
Feb 13, 2013, 1:24:56 PM2/13/13
to
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> You are correct that the culprit was the U-20 chip on the MPU board. I
> had pinball repair ace Dan Gutchess come out today and he replaced the
> U-20 chip (ULN2803) and added a socket for it for easy future
> replacement should the need ever arise again.
>
> My TZ is humming along nicely now and playing 100 percent thanks to
> Dan's excellent board work on the MPU board and the excellent advice
> offered up here by you and several others on this thread.
>
> Gord
Aha! Thanks for posting the follow up Gordon. Very nice.
> Hi Chris,
>
> You are correct that the culprit was the U-20 chip on the MPU board. I
> had pinball repair ace Dan Gutchess come out today and he replaced the
> U-20 chip (ULN2803) and added a socket for it for easy future
> replacement should the need ever arise again.
>
> My TZ is humming along nicely now and playing 100 percent thanks to
> Dan's excellent board work on the MPU board and the excellent advice
> offered up here by you and several others on this thread.
>
> Gord
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
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