LED"S making me dizzy
graham...@verizon.net
They look great, colors are so natural looking, my problem is that I
am getting Vertigo/Dizzy that stays with me for hours even after
playing one game. I only instaklled them last night.
I only installed the below playfield lights.
Has anyone experianced this , I am sensitive to vertigo I remember
looking for a large screen TV a few years ago and was dizzy for days
(no joke's please)
my wife plays it with no issues
Is this something I will adjust to or is it here to stay
iskidoo
Sounds like you have undiagnosed mild seizure activity. Do you have a
reaction to strobe lights too? Remove them and sell them to another
pin head. Not worth all that for some fancy lighting.
Adm56
I won't make fun of you...some first person shooters on the PC give me
motion sickness. Half Life 2 was the worst. Take em out if they bug
you. It's not worth it.
PT
it. LEDs flicker because they react to changes in voltage much
faster. The voltage feeding feature lamps is a dirty flickering
signal. Normal lamps don't flicker because the filament retains some
of the glow and provides persistence, thus filtering out the
flicker.
What brand of LEDs?
John
On Nov 20, 8:35 pm, "grahamhar...@verizon.net"
graham...@verizon.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
Im have always been sensitive to 3-d type video games , motion like
carnival rides etc. It sucks, seemed to take forever to swap them all
out. they were mostly 555 frosted bulbs. Its not the bulbs just me. I
will start swapping out the brightest , starting with the clear
hopefully i will get to a point where they are okay if not back to old
school bulbs. I guess you never know until you try
PT
Pinball Life and BC's don't seem to flicker as much as the cheaper
LEDs. Some guys down here in Florida bought some bulk rate LEDs from
China. They flickered unbearably!
John
graham...@verizon.net
>
> - Show quoted text -
got the from BCS, have always had great customer service and reliable
products. I added some LED"S under my Jurassic Park and no issues,
Ripley's has almost 80 playfield lights and a lot of strobing, many
larger white and yellow cubes
to much going on for my motion challenged brain. I love the way the
ambers look and how the white looks white not yellow . I have been
looking at them all night and am hopefull that if go back to the older
white bulbs I will be able to keep the color enhancing other bulbs. I
am going to swap out the ones closest to the player first. I hope I
can find the best of both worlds. I was at Jordans furniture this
weekend and they have a Pauls TV store and they sell a 3-D system that
you use with your home TV had goggles etc was pretty expensive when
you watched a movie you ducked to avoid the things flying at your head
well that lasted for 3 minutes for me and I was dizzy for the rest of
the day.
kirb
<grahamhar...@verizon.net>
> Its not the bulbs just me.
to be fair, it's both of you.
LEDs were not designed to be used in most pinballs and the flicker
problem is due to the games being designed for the slow glow of a
bulb.
You are sensitive to the problem. I am as well. Very bright flicker-y
games really annoy me, but not for the same reasons.
Kirb
Ed Job
> > > carnival rides etc.
Your symptoms sound like the Bucha effect described here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_effect
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flicker_vertigo
But you should discuss this with your doctor because you might have an
undiagnosed form of epilepsy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_epilepsy
http://www.epilepsyontario.org/client/EO/EOWeb.nsf/web/Photosensitive+Seizures
If you ever watch the Andromeda Strain, Dr. Leavitt suffers from this.
While I don't know exactly what Stern or your LEDs are doing here, I'm
going to assume that Stern is controlling the brightness of the lights
using PWM at a frequency that wouldn't be noticable with incandescent
bulbs, but shows up as flickering when using your LEDs. You may not
see the same effects with LEDs on different manufacturers/games due to
differences in how they drive the lighting.
If you want to continue to use LEDs, you may be able to find LEDs of a
different design that don't have this problem. There's also a chance
you could play with the illumination levels and see if that helps
since different levels may use a frequency less likely to trigger your
vertigo.
One other option would be to request Stern adjust the frequency they
drive their lighting with in a future firmware update to one less
likely to cause these types of effects.
Until you can get advice from a medical professional though, you
should try to avoid lighting that triggers your symptoms, and if you
can't, at least try to have someone nearby who is aware of this
problem monitoring you.
skbrothers
will call a "Ghosting" effect when looking at...then away from LEDs.
I especially notice it at night time on the tail lights of newer high
end cars like Cadillacs.
You look directly at the LED brake lights then look away and the image
of the red brake lights persists in your vision for a few split
seconds afterwards.
It's like a mild and temporary retinal burn.
It's extremely annoying and distracting and I will go out of my way to
let the car get way ahead of me, or I'll blow by him, just to not have
to deal with it.
LEDs in pins can have the same effect albeit it's not as bad as brake
lights at night for me.
Steve
PT
a constant voltage (like a battery in a flashlight) they do not
flicker. The cars with LED tail lights that flicker are probably
dimming the LEDs with pulse width modulation. In other words they
are pulsing them on and off very quickly to make them *seem* more
dim. This bothers me too. Seems like Cadillacs are really bad for
this.
The ghosting you see on pinballs from LED lights is the same effect.
The LEDs react much, much more quickly than a real bulb to the supply
voltage. In a pinball machine the effect is that they look like a
strobe light. It has been said here many times recently; pinball
machines were not designed to use LEDs. Not even the new Stern SAM
machines. The feature light voltage is pulsed, not a nice smooth
voltage like in an LED flashlight.
John
lightguy
> The LEDs react much, much more quickly than a real bulb to the supply
> voltage. In a pinball machine the effect is that they look like a
> strobe light. It has been said here many times recently; pinball
> machines were not designed to use LEDs. Not even the new Stern SAM
> machines. The feature light voltage is pulsed, not a nice smooth
> voltage like in an LED flashlight.
From what I understand LED's "fire" in only one direction of an AC
cycle.
Effectively they are only on less than half the time thus strobe.
There are supposed to be LED's that fire in both directions.
Also a filament in an incandescent glows between cycles as it cools
which causes it to be "on" all the time whereas an LED really does
shut off completely.
What you can do is replace all or most General illumination bulbs
which stay on constantly (eg slingshots) with incandescents and use
LEDs for inserts, bumpers etc. This will reduce the strobe your, and
everyone's brain, experiances.
tktlwyr
I installed them under all the inserts in my S-M. It was too much. I
took out the whites, which seemed to be the brightest. That made it
MUCH more tolerable!
World Class Pins
spotty trails when a fast moving ball passed by them. The "cooler"
colors look great under inserts but overall I'll pass on the whole LED
fad. Problem is, it's probably the way of the future and not just for
pins.
Karl.
PinChamp
I see a new advertising slogan "Pay $200+ and do a bunch of work to
make your game look silly and give you headaches! It's the newest
pinball craze!"
I am predicting a big backlash coming soon against games with full LED
changeouts.
The trend will run its course and then go away. Now if chrome
hardware would just go away too!
All this bling crap is ridiculous and makes pins look like total crap.
NEW RULE ALERT:
If a game is offered for sale you must automatically deduct $500 if it
had a full set of LEDs installed, and deduct $1000 if chrome hardware
is installed.
The buyer is entitled to a discount for having to uninstall all that
ugly useless horseshit!
Cliffy
heh heh :P Such vehement expressions about lighting!
We should abhor cellular phones and digital motion pictures! Goodness
sakes everyone knows there's nothing wrong with washing your clothes by
beating them on rocks along the river. Washing "machine"? Why!? J/K :)
To each their own, I say. If you don't like 'em, don't put 'em on your
game! There. That was easy :)
--
Cliffy - CARGPB2
Home of the world's finest pinball protectors
http://www.passionforpinball.com
PinChamp
> PinChamp wrote:
> > Wow another plus for unnecessary LED's!
>
> > I see a new advertising slogan "Pay $200+ and do a bunch of work to
> > make your game look silly and give you headaches! It's the newest
> > pinball craze!"
>
> > I am predicting a big backlash coming soon against games with full LED
> > changeouts.
>
> > The trend will run its course and then go away. Now if chrome
> > hardware would just go away too!
>
> > All this bling crap is ridiculous and makes pins look like total crap.
>
> > NEW RULE ALERT:
>
> > If a game is offered for sale you must automatically deduct $500 if it
> > had a full set of LEDs installed, and deduct $1000 if chrome hardware
> > is installed.
>
> > The buyer is entitled to a discount for having to uninstall all that
> > ugly useless horseshit!
>
> heh heh :P Such vehement expressions about lighting!
> We should abhor cellular phones and digital motion pictures! Goodness
> sakes everyone knows there's nothing wrong with washing your clothes by
> beating them on rocks along the river. Washing "machine"? Why!? J/K :)
I actually agree on the cell phone thing. That is definitely
something that had reduced humans quality of life, not enhanced it. I
remember a few years back I lost my cell phone and waited a month to
buy a new one. It was one of the most peaceful and stress free months
I had in years!
Cliffy
Just the opposite for me. I don't have to worry about my younger kids
quite as much now that we can be in contact anywhere almost instantly.
Whew :)
PinChamp
> Just the opposite for me. I don't have to worry about my younger kids
> quite as much now that we can be in contact anywhere almost instantly.
> Whew :)
-
Funny you say that. My little guy is the only reason I have a cell
phone now. So I can be reached anytime in case he has an
emergency : )
Cliffy
Really the only reason I have one too :)
jlash...@gmail.com
jlash...@gmail.com
jlash...@gmail.com
Frank Furhter
--
The Frankster, a playfield prankster
Once upon my crank her ballpark shrank.
http://PinWiki.com, Prep-H 4 pinballers.
CARGPB #42 (Free to join, sign up now!)
Dangling Team-EM Member (debauchery a-go-go)
Rule #1 of RGP, there are no rules or rulers.
pinballtom264
CubeSnake
seymour.shabow
machine in and replacing them with the newer eikos, etc. available -
there's like a 5-10% failure rate on those. I now save the
non-silvered/blackened ones test them sort them clean them up and use
those instead.