Any thoughts on B & T Spare Parts TZ Clock Board
BP
for the Twilight Zone Clock Boards offered?
I have several clock boards and am looking for feed back on what your
experience has been...
BP
bump
Taylor-VA
Not sure what you are talking about, could you enlighten me?
B&T?
BP
BAA sells a replacement Twilight Zone clock board made by B & T Spare
Parts out of Germany? It is a two part board like the original. The
one showed on the website, isn't exactly the same as the one I
received. The leds are different.
http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GS-TZ3111&Category_Code=
not this one
http://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GS-TZ8R&Category_Code=
Having a heck of a time keeping my clock going. I had an original
board, and bought a Rottendog board as the clock would just stop.
Reset the game and it would work...so I rebuilt the .100 connectors
below the clock...and it still would fail...it tends to fail around 7
or 8:50...never fails in test. Never registers two hits, or skip
one...but the clock doesn't move as fast in test as it does say when
you reset the game....
So I bought a new board...to see where the issue is...yeah...same
problem..actually more pronounced now then before. Thinking its not
the boards it might be the Aux board in the head...just not sure where
to go right yet...
BP
> On Mar 9, 8:22 pm, Taylor-VA <TaylorV...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Mar 9, 8:20 pm, BP <patrickfamily...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Mar 6, 9:56 am, BP <patrickfamily...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > Has anyone had any pos/neg experience with the B & T Spare Parts Board
> > > > for the Twilight Zone Clock Boards offered?
> > > > I have several clock boards and am looking for feed back on what your
> > > > experience has been...
>
> > > bump
>
> > Not sure what you are talking about, could you enlighten me?
> > B&T?
>
> BAA sells a replacement Twilight Zone clock board made by B & T Spare
> Parts out of Germany? It is a two part board like the original. The
> one showed on the website, isn't exactly the same as the one I
> received. The leds are different.
>
> not this onehttp://bayareaamusements.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Produ...
>
> Having a heck of a time keeping my clock going. I had an original
> board, and bought a Rottendog board as the clock would just stop.
> Reset the game and it would work...so I rebuilt the .100 connectors
> below the clock...and it still would fail...it tends to fail around 7
> or 8:50...never fails in test. Never registers two hits, or skip
> one...but the clock doesn't move as fast in test as it does say when
> you reset the game....
> So I bought a new board...to see where the issue is...yeah...same
> problem..actually more pronounced now then before. Thinking its not
> the boards it might be the Aux board in the head...just not sure where
> to go right yet...
I did some more tests last night...any help would be appreciated...
The clock never fails during a test, it can run and run in either
direction at any speed.
The clock never fails during Clock Millions
The clock consistenly fails during Clock Chaos and always just after
is passes 7 when its loading up. So it starts at 12, then does a
quick reverse to 6, but fails along the way just past 7 but before
6:45, somewhere inbetween there.
I reset the game, lauch, push the pops to get it to clock chaos, put
the ball in the piano, hands start winding, then Clock is Broken.
I rechecked all the .100 connectors below the clock and they all
appear to have really good connections with wire to tab...not to
mention it works during the other modes except clock chaos. Is this
bug?
BP
>
> - Show quoted text -
Nothing like responding to my own post...found a RGP thread where
Clock Chaos is the issue...upgraded the roms and its fixed....I bought
the newer roms a while back and I can install tonight to see if its
fixed. I don't always like the H roms as with South Park the game is
all messed up...the profanity is great, but the game totally changes,
as it was based on older code.
tktlwyr
report back.
BP
> FWIW, I have these clock boards and they work great. Try the roms and
> report back.
Added the new roms...still broke. Exact same place. Went from 9.2 to
9.4H, all it got me was lost scores. So next step is switch out my
MPU board with one from fish tales and go from there...it will have to
wait until Friday...not real happy with where its at right now.
Taylor-VA
You may have a warped minute hand. It will be prevent the optos from
registering and causing the clock problems. When rebuilding my clock I
replaced the minute hand with a new one that Marco was selling. The
opto interruptor on it is longer and may have to be trimmed to pass
the clock face but will certainly trigger the optos. I also added a
washer behind the minute hand to remove any slop which could also add
to the problem. Hope this works for you.
BP
Thanks for the tip...I also added washer, and E clips all over the
clock to tighten it up. I bought all new components and put them
in...and when things went wrong, after a year, I bought the new
board. I've since gone back to all the original stuff, except the
board trying to identify the problem.
The minute hand is bent, but its bent in a way to make it deeper into
the optos. The B @ T board minute optos are on risers so they can be
adjusted a bit to make super deep breaks and angles to the exact sweep
of the hand.
It would be nice if I had a map of all the optos to break points,
maybe there is something special about 7? The one thing I do know is
there are 3 clock speeds and only 2 can be tested. Clock Chaos uses
the 3rd speed, super fast when rewinding to 6 before the mode actually
begins...perhaps there is an edgey spot. Sure wish someone knew what
was going on...
Tonight I'm going to switch my boards with Fish Tales...hate to loose
my scores..but something to shoot for.
seymour-shabow
> The minute hand is bent, but its bent in a way to make it deeper into
> the optos. The B @ T board minute optos are on risers so they can be
> adjusted a bit to make super deep breaks and angles to the exact sweep
> of the hand.
>
> It would be nice if I had a map of all the optos to break points,
> maybe there is something special about 7? The one thing I do know is
> there are 3 clock speeds and only 2 can be tested. Clock Chaos uses
> the 3rd speed, super fast when rewinding to 6 before the mode actually
> begins...perhaps there is an edgey spot. Sure wish someone knew what
> was going on...
>
> Tonight I'm going to switch my boards with Fish Tales...hate to loose
> my scores..but something to shoot for.
Are you sure your 10 opto board under the PF is ok? It sounds like it's
not picking up the 6 opto on the hours part, not the minutes part. The
circle thing has to break 2 or 3 optos at the same time so the game
knows what hour it's near, then it counts the minute hand sweeps to get
the exact hour (so it can award the correct score in those 2 clock modes
that do it that way).
Also are you sure the gears are installed back properly? If it's off by
a tooth it could cause problems.
Finally maybe the opto on the replacement board is slightly out of spec
for Wms' boards to read it - they used super sensitive optos specially
made for them. Some other optos 'work' but that's just lucky - I wonder
if anyone can modify the design of the opto board to compensate for
this? I'm not sure what's involved.
-scott CARGPB#29
martin
The clock board is connected directly to the switch matrix. It is a
design that lives at the edge of spec, so Williams had special optos
produced. If the optos on the board are not the special type, then
they can be unreliable.
The problem is more lilely to be solved by switching out the power-
driver board than the CPU board, as it is aggravated by a low 12V
supply.
BAA has the correct optos. You could try switching the optos around on
your board in pairs, see if the problem moves.
Can you read the part number on the optos?
(The redesign involves adding detector and switch circuitry to the
clock).
seymour-shabow
>
> The clock board is connected directly to the switch matrix. It is a
> design that lives at the edge of spec, so Williams had special optos
> produced. If the optos on the board are not the special type, then
> they can be unreliable.
>
> The problem is more likely to be solved by switching out the power-
> driver board than the CPU board, as it is aggravated by a low 12V
> supply.
>
> BAA has the correct optos. You could try switching the optos around on
> your board in pairs, see if the problem moves.
>
>
> (The redesign involves adding detector and switch circuitry to the
> clock).
So would building a separate opto board like the other optos use buy you
anything? Heck use one from another game wired in there if it makes it
more reliable with the optos that are hard to get.
I so know I had a devil of a time with mine with the original boards,
even with replaced optos. A rottendog board fixed me up though.
-scott CARGPB#29
BP
Have the Rottendog board...same issue....all 3 boards fail during the
Clock Chaos...rest of the time they work...was thinking code, but now
looking one step further. I'm going to put a new cpu board in tonight
and will report back. For that matter anyone wanting to look at it is
more than willing to come over. Heck once they scratch their head
enough, we'll play something else...or put a record up on TZ now that
the scores are all gone.
martin
I think that Jim posted a while back that the clock boards were a
problem because his supply of optos was drying up, so he was using
the correct ones.
It is quite a hassle to rewire to use a regular opto board: the proper
fix is to do it in the clock.
BP
>
> - Show quoted text -
Well, I switched out the CPU board...and no score...same exact issue.
I'm loosing my mind over this one. If anyone has any thoughts I'd
welcome them.
BP
>
> - Show quoted text -
bump
Chris Hibler
haven't heard of this kind of problem with the RD board.
I'm not sure about the other board you mentioned, but I might have
repaired one of those the other day. On that board, the optos, as you
say, are on risers. These "risers" are really machine pin sockets. The
board I repaired didn't have the optos soldered into the machine pin
sockets. The connection was poor which caused intermittent problems.
Plus, one opto was bad on the board.
Next, let's verify the "never fails in test" observation.
While the hands on the clock may continue to move during test, we need
to make sure that the correct opto's are indicating the correct closed/
open state. The "encoding" of the optos for each clock time position
is contained in the manual. Put the clock into "slow" forward test.
Watch the opto test boxes. Make sure that the patterns indicated in
the manual are followed =every time=. If they aren't, then you either
have a bad opto, the clock hand isn't breaking the opto beam (as
previously mentioned), or the under PF opto board is flakey.
If it works perfectly in "slow" test, bump it up to "fast" test and
repeat.
Report back and we'll see where to go from there.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
BP
I'll do it tonight.
Couple of quick thoughts or comments. When I said it never fails, I
meant it keeps good time (time on clock matches reported time).
I took the rottendog board out after a year because it started
reporting clock broken. When I would run a test in fast, it would
spin spin spin, and then randomly jump to 7:00. Basically it became
so flakey I couldn't stand it. I have two clock housings, one I
modified a bit to so the hour optos sit deeper into the black gear
that breaks the opto beam.
At this point I have all original gears, housing, arms, and rottendog
board in the game, and I'll start there with the testing.
I bought the new board figuring one year of home use isn't nearly long
enough to start having failures so I bought a new different board.
Your observations on the sockets is correct on the new board.
BP
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sorry I haven't posted, out for a work celebration...I ordered a new
clock body to rule out it being warped. I have two all ready, but one
I modified so the board would sit deeper into the hour gear. Parts
should be here soon and will update folks.
BP
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sorry its taken so long. New clock gear housing installed as well as
body. Clock is still broken, but I want to believe I've found a
possible issue. I've included my clock opto readings with min/hr
below.
12:00 X000/X00X
12:15 0X00/X00X
12:30 00X0/X00X
12:45 000X/X00X
Once the minute hand sweeps the 12:45 the DMD where it says time and
hr changes to 12:45 hour 1 and the opto reading looks like
0000/000X
1:00 X000/000X
Sweeping the minute hand back and forth across the opto at the 12
position only registers the hr hit. Sweeping the minute hand across
the 9 position depending on which side you are on registers an hr hit.
There is some information in the book about gear alignment, the basic
relationship of the minute hand to black hr gear. It certainly isn't
clear. I've taken the clock apart a dozen times or so and reassembled
without a second thought to actually lining the gears up, its just
always worked or the hr has been 180 out, flip the hand and good to
go. I've always believed the clock could align itself based on the
optos, but it can't really the more I dive into it.
I'm not sure why it breaks the clock chaos though...it works fine in
millions and madness. Perhaps its the backward motion + speed, plus
some unlikeable time at 8 now. Always breaks at 8.
Gordon Bowar
When running your clock tests hold the clock upside down and see if it tests
successfully. This is where mine was not working as there is a slight bit of
play in the clock guts (2-4 millimeters) as the large white gear (the only gear
without a metal E-clip at back of clock gear housing) will move forward in the
housing just a wee bit. In my clock this was enough to actually cause the
minute hand opto interrupter to not trip the all of the optos consistently.
When I would turn my clock back face up the clock guts would shift slightly back
and the opto interrupter on the minute hand would again trip all of the optos
consistently. I was an idiot and when I recently replaced my decal plate with a
very nice slightly thicker decal plate from Pinbits when the clock gear was all
the way back in the clock housing the opto interrupter would slightly rub on the
decal plate and briefly catch at the cutouts for the optos so I trimmed off 2-3
millimeters of the opto interrupter which corrected the slight catching issue,
however, it caused the 'Clock Is Broken' issue when the clocks gears were
shifted all the way forward in the clock housing as the now slightly shortened
minute hand opto interrupter was not tripping all of the optos.
This slight shifting of the clock guts occurs while playing the game as the
clock tilts slightly forward in the game and when you are running modes which
require fast clock movement the clock gears seem to move to the forward-most
movement point in the housing and then they stay there which explains why it
works for a short while after reinstallation and seems to break after fast clock
modes (i.e. Clock Chaos). Also when you lift the playfield with the clock
installed it may shift the clock guts back in the housing every so slightly and
then when you lower the playfield again and play eventually (fairly soon
actually) the clock guts will shift slightly forward again causing the 'Clock Is
Broken' problem.
In my situation I cut a small piece of electrical tape and wrapped it around the
opto interrupter and flattened it together with my finger to in effect extend
the minute hand opto interrupter (2-3 millimeters or so, sounds about the same
as what I cut off before) back to around its original length and then neatly cut
off any excess electrical tape. I performed all clock tests again, this time I
made sure to hold the clock upside down to ensure that it will complete the
clock test successfully once the clock guts move slightly forward in the clock
housing.
This may or may not be the issue you are having, but I know I was getting very
frustrated and it seems to have corrected my problem as I have not received the
'Clock Is Broken' issue since then.
Regards.
Gordon Bowar
"BP" <patrickf...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:58caf30c-6919-48b7...@d45g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
BP
>
> - Show quoted text -
Gordon,
Thanks for the update. I used a small black washer from a model
airplane propellar to pull the minute hand all the way out, making the
roll pin stick tightly into the gear. This also pulls the minute hand
out, which I heated up and bent to make good sweeps. Reading up the
post, you'll see the clock never breaks except in clock chaos. When I
break the game, its not even in real play...I start a game, grab the
ball, hit the pops, drop the ball in the piano, and boom its broke...I
believe the gears are off, as the hour time should be updating at 30
position I believe...there is mystery surround the manual when it says
the hour should change at the thirty, but not be examined until it
gets to "00 minutes".
BP
>
> - Show quoted text -
bump...Chris you still reading these?
Chris Hibler
Been noodling over it.
You really must run the clock test to ensure that the pattern of hour
opto states is correct.
Running forward, you should see...
ooox - 1
oooo - 2
oxoo
xxoo
xxox
oxox
oxxx
oxxo
ooxo
ooxx
xoxx
xoox - 12
Anything else and you should be able to isolate it to the failed(ing)
hour opto.
It helps to have someone calling out the state while you check against
the "truth" table.
Reading back thru your post, there =is= a correct way to assemble the
gears. It's detailed on page 1-51 of the TZ manual.
Keep hammering on it. You'll find it.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
> bump...Chrisyou still reading these?
BP
>
> - Show quoted text -
The manual on the assembly reads like a set of directions in a child's
Christmas toy you are to tired to really read or make sense of...that
once you do it, its perfectly clear, but until then it presents a
mental blockage to pass. I've got it...and I've scratched my head a
few times...still hung up on the mode thing though. The mode might
just be a symptom of the problem. Right now my hour is flipping when
the minute had crosses the 45 minute opto. So the gears are off...
I'll report tomorrow, on my progress..invitation is still there for
anyone who thinks they can fix it.
BP
>
> - Show quoted text -
Bump on this Twilight Zone Clock issue. Please help...I love my clock
but something is wicked wrong here.
BP
>
> - Show quoted text -
Rebuilt the clock again last night. Hour now flips at the thirty and
got the assembly right. Same issue however.
Chris Hibler
Now...if you would...please bounce your actual results of the opto
test against the table I posted in a prior post. This should tell us
which opto to suspect.
BP
Ran the test and stopped after each hour was breeched by the hour hand
and the hour opto shows correct...Minute hand changes teh hour opto at
the 30 position as it should, and flips to the next hour correctly.
The optos for the minutes also appear to be working correctly as they
only breech the minute switch for just a split second.
Beginning to hate this problem.
Thanks,
BP
Chris Hibler
Refresh me on where we are with this problem.
Do you have the RottenDog board in there now?
Run the same test, but with the clock hands going backwards.
Let me know if this works.
I can't recall what the specific problem was.