WMS 3-7 MPU Andre Boot Test ROM
Chris Hibler
I was fiddling with a System 3 MPU and wanted to try Andre's test ROM
that Clay notes in the guides. I've burned the ROM but the
instructions call for a "key" to be placed on MPU connector 1J4, which
contains the "memory protect" signal. But, the documentation never
says what the "key" is or what pins should be connected in what way.
Does anyone know what "key" the instructions are referring to?
I assume it's a jumper to connect a pin or two to ground, but that's
just a guess.
Thanks folks!
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
seymour.shabow
> Good Evening RGP,
>
> I was fiddling with a System 3 MPU and wanted to try Andre's test ROM
> that Clay notes in the guides. I've burned the ROM but the
> instructions call for a "key" to be placed on MPU connector 1J4, which
> contains the "memory protect" signal. But, the documentation never
> says what the "key" is or what pins should be connected in what way.
>
> Does anyone know what "key" the instructions are referring to?
> I assume it's a jumper to connect a pin or two to ground, but that's
> just a guess.
Looks like shorting 1 and 2 would short memory protect to ground.
System 3 doesn't have a memory protect circuit though does it ? I
thought that only came in in system 6-up.
What's an Andre test rom? I know about the Leon one.
-scott CARGPB#29
Gott Lieb?
boot up - http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.pinball/browse_thread/thread/811d9fdc951ce103/6155c8850b4fd988.
Jim
On Sep 16, 12:34 am, "seymour.shabow" <seymour.sha...@gmail.com>
wrote:
David Gersic
> System 3 doesn't have a memory protect circuit though does it ? I
> thought that only came in in system 6-up.
My World Cup doesn't have a memory protect circuit. And the Hot Tip I
worked on a while back I'm pretty sure didn't have one either.
--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |
| I'm not your type. I'm not inflatable. |
| Email address is a spam trap. Visit the web site for contact info. |
Stewie Caines
within his Williams System 3- 7 repair guide. I've downloaded the zip
file from there containing the ROM and a set of sparse instructions.
There seems to be a lot of info out there to do with Leon's Test ROM,
almost nothing on Andre's ROM. Anyone care to comment on how good or
otherwise Andre's ROM is?
Stewie
David Gersic
> Is there anymore info on Andre's ROM?
Not much. Andre posted a few messages here on RGP about it.
--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |
| Pros are people who do jobs well even when they don't feel like it. |
firepower
and then never showed up.
Yes, you have to change jumper settings (on Sys 7 boards) to use the
Andre Boot rom and then also jumper header pins 1J4-2 (ground) to 1J4-1
(memory protect) to "close" the coin door on the bench.
To check the circuit on the MPU board is working, TP3 on the MPU board
will show the state of the interlock. Door closed TP3 is +5v. Door
open it's 0v.
Having said all of this, I have *never* got the Andre Boot ROM to work
as advertised in the directions, even on a working board. One or two
flashes at most.
From what I can see, there are 3 "free" test ROMS. The original WMS
tech ROM: http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/wmstst37 (thanks, Clay).
The Leon ROM v3 which is excellent when PIAs or blanking fails or a
board just will not boot, and then the Andre one.
Some what OT, but may be of interest on the LEON v3 ROM:
I wrote up some info on the Leon ROM and the mem protect circuit.
Basically in one sentence: it will "stop" on "2" after diag is pressed
(5101 error, or mem protect bad) with a jumper as above in place. If the
mem protect circuit works, it continues on to test "3" once you remove
the jumper. Really good test before putting a board in a game and
finding out you can't adjust and save your game settings.
More info is around somewhere, Google or...
See: System 7 MPU LED Information at http://www.blackknightpinball.com
Also the two sections where I was playing with alternate methods to run
System 6 games on a System 7 board may be worth reading. This has all
probably been worked out before, but I spent tiome going though it, and
in doing so learned lots about how the different diagnostics work.
The WMS test ROMs: Don't add much beyond the usual "game ROM" diags in
my experience, but does let you run with a single "game rom". It does
test the mem protect in steps 8 & 9.
My advice on the Andre ROM is don't waste your time. Because of all the
jumper changes on Sys 7- save yourself the trouble and use the WMS and
the LEON diag ROMs. That's my 2c.
Having said that, it would be cool to have a "Bally Stylee" diag for the
System 6 boards in game. So I would love to hear from Andre himself or
Chris (the OP) if you can explain exactly how to get it to work as
advertised.
Hope this is of use.
Regards
-Richard
firepower
http://www.firepower.2ya.com/Sys4-CPULogicDiagram.pdf
All the R/W on the RAMs are tied to Bus02.
Didn't the early games use dip switches for some settings? Ugh.
On a Sys 6 MPU baord, you can disable mem protect by removing jumper J5.
But why? I would be more inclined to use a "manual" mem protect by
jumpering pins 1+2 of 2J4 with a switch / removable jumper if I had a
Sys 3/4 game running on a Sys 6 board. That way you couldn't
change/corrupt the settings memory in the 5101 RAM without removing it.
-Richard
Chris Hibler
> Darn it. I wrote a reply and then think I lost it, went to my outbox
> and then never showed up.
>
> Yes, you have to change jumper settings (on Sys 7 boards) to use the
> Andre Boot rom and then also jumper header pins 1J4-2 (ground) to 1J4-1
> (memory protect) to "close" the coin door on the bench.
>
> To check the circuit on the MPU board is working, TP3 on the MPU board
> will show the state of the interlock. Door closed TP3 is +5v. Door
> open it's 0v.
>
> Having said all of this, I have *never* got the Andre Boot ROM to work
> as advertised in the directions, even on a working board. One or two
> flashes at most.
>
> From what I can see, there are 3 "free" test ROMS. The original WMS
> tech ROM:http://www.pinrepair.com/sys37/wmstst37 (thanks, Clay).
> The Leon ROM v3 which is excellent when PIAs or blanking fails or a
> board just will not boot, and then the Andre one.
>
> Some what OT, but may be of interest on the LEON v3 ROM:
> I wrote up some info on the Leon ROM and the mem protect circuit.
> Basically in one sentence: it will "stop" on "2" after diag is pressed
> (5101 error, or mem protect bad) with a jumper as above in place. If the
> mem protect circuit works, it continues on to test "3" once you remove
> the jumper. Really good test before putting a board in a game and
> finding out you can't adjust and save your game settings.
>
> More info is around somewhere, Google or...
Aha! Thanks for chiming in Richard. Your experience with the "Andre
ROM" matches mine. I've never had any success making it work even on a
known working board.
I have learned a bit more since my OP.
1. I have no idea what the need for a "key" applied to 1J4 would do.
1J4 creates a series circuit with the two coin door diagnostic
switches and the (not)IRQ signal. If 1J4 were to be removed for this
test, it would be equivalent to not closing either of the coin door
diagnostic switches.
2. My OP was incorrect about a "memory protect" signal on 1J4...I
don't know where I came up with that idea. I'd agree with David and
with Scott that System 3 doesn't have a memory protect circuit.
The idea of a "Bally-like" test ROM for WMS 3-7 is attractive to me as
I like simplicity. The 6800 assembly code for Andre's ROM is contained
in the zip file that Clay links to. Perhaps if I get real energetic
I'll have a look at that code to see what it does...perhaps...
I did end up getting the System 3 Lucky 7 working. The game would
appear to boot but never would come to life as the blanking signal was
still being held low. Resolution turned out to be what it often is
with this board set, scanbe sockets. Once the scanbe sockets were
replaced, and I'll replace the 40-pin interconnect too, it fired right
up. It's nice to be able to take the entire head and playfield out of
the game and you've essentially got a test bed right there. You need
only fake the cabinet switches and solenoids, if any.
Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. That Andre ROM was
frustrating me. Until someone updates the code, I'm going to return to
Leon's ROM.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
seymour.shabow
>
> The idea of a "Bally-like" test ROM for WMS 3-7 is attractive to me as
> I like simplicity. The 6800 assembly code for Andre's ROM is contained
> in the zip file that Clay links to. Perhaps if I get real energetic
> I'll have a look at that code to see what it does...perhaps...
>
Unless the rom is shadowed higher up he's got the 6800 vectors too low
($7ff8 instead of $fffe) - the rom will never run in that case or have
unpredictable results.
-scott CARGPB#29
seymour.shabow
> Right. No mem protect on Sys 3/4 from factory:
> http://www.firepower.2ya.com/Sys4-CPULogicDiagram.pdf
> All the R/W on the RAMs are tied to Bus02.
>
> Didn't the early games use dip switches for some settings? Ugh.
Yeah, for all settings actually. But there's a sort of easy way to
"fix" that - I was going to rewrite phoenix when I had one to have the
software setting instead like later games have, but within the rom is a
series of values that correspond to the factory values for all of the
parameters. Hex edit those and correct the checksum and bravo, you have
a rom with all the settings you want, without having to set dip switches
and press diag buttons with a manual right in front of you the whole time.
Hard to believe the original WMS solid state system was the shakiest of
the big 4 back then......
-scott CARGPB#29
Gott Lieb?
Jim
On Sep 17, 10:47 am, "seymour.shabow" <seymour.sha...@gmail.com>
wrote:
seymour.shabow
> Scott, did you get my e-mail yesterday?
>
> Jim
>
Yes, that's how I was able to look at it :)
-scott
Gott Lieb?
Andre's test rom floating around. I didn't compare the code, but
those two zip files had different revision numbers.
jim
On Sep 17, 11:16 am, "seymour.shabow" <seymour.sha...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Chris Hibler
I didn't do the proper analysis yet, but it's possible that the way
the memory/address bus is configured for the address space that IC17
sits in, that the vectors are in the right place for this assembly.
This bit of code is assembled to fit in the address space from 7800 to
7FFF, which is 2K, which would be correct for a 2716.
seymour.shabow
Doesn't matter Chris, the 6800/02/08 looks at $FFFE for its run address
on reset, so you have to have SOMETHING in that location pointing to a
valid program.
-scott CARGPB#29
seymour.shabow
That's why I said is that portion of rom shadow'd - to appear at both
the 7fxx range AND the FFxx range.....
OHMI_ARCADE
FFFF to 7800-7FFF.
I have written some test ROMs for the System 3-6. I am presently
(although not very actively) adding System 7 MPU specific tests. You
can see a demo of the first prototype of my test unit on my website
www.smokingcircuit.com
Anyway... I'm not familiar with the Bally testsbut I'm happy to code
something up if theer are specific tests people want. I also don't
mind shareing my code if someone else wants to take a crack.
Tim
Chris Hibler
Nice looking tester Tim.
Yes...that's what I was trying to say in my prior post but I couldn't
come up with the more conventional phrase that you did, "address
decoding circuitry". Thanks for bringing back my memory from a couple
of decades ago...
While the 6800 is putting out a request to read location FFFE/FFFF,
the hardware address decoding circuitry is really returning what would
normally be locations 7FFE/7FFF. It's just like "memory mapped I/O".
In fact, it really is memory mapped I/O except the device being
"controlled" in this case is actually memory... :-)
More study...
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
David Gersic
> Right. No mem protect on Sys 3/4 from factory:
> http://www.firepower.2ya.com/Sys4-CPULogicDiagram.pdf
> All the R/W on the RAMs are tied to Bus02.
>
> Didn't the early games use dip switches for some settings? Ugh.
Early games used DIP switches to set up the game, but not to store the
settings (like Bally). You select the setting you want to change (in
binary!) and the value you want it set to (again, in binary!), then
you press the "enter" button to store the value.
--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |
| Hane's Law: There is no limit to how bad things can get. |
seymour.shabow
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 14:09:59 +0100, firepower <harv...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>> Right. No mem protect on Sys 3/4 from factory:
>> http://www.firepower.2ya.com/Sys4-CPULogicDiagram.pdf
>> All the R/W on the RAMs are tied to Bus02.
>>
>> Didn't the early games use dip switches for some settings? Ugh.
>
> Early games used DIP switches to set up the game, but not to store the
> settings (like Bally). You select the setting you want to change (in
> binary!) and the value you want it set to (again, in binary!), then
> you press the "enter" button to store the value.
>
>
And they came with several sheets with all the possible binary combos on
it. But really, how else with 2 position dip switches would you be
setting anything BUT binary?? ;)
The only explanation I can think of for this foolishness is that they
didn't think of the other ways to do it!
-scott CARGPB#29
David Gersic
> And they came with several sheets with all the possible binary combos on
> it. But really, how else with 2 position dip switches would you be
> setting anything BUT binary?? ;)
Ok, yeah, good point.
> The only explanation I can think of for this foolishness is that they
> didn't think of the other ways to do it!
I think it just made sense to them.
--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |
| 42?! 7 and a half million years and... - Oh, you were running Windows. |
seymour.shabow
>
>> The only explanation I can think of for this foolishness is that they
>> didn't think of the other ways to do it!
>
> I think it just made sense to them.
>
That's scary.
Maybe they were paranoid about people getting into the head and flipping
one or 2 switches to get free play. Have you ever noticed that the most
robust functioning part of any pinball machine are the coin slots and
the associated circuitry/code?
scott CARGPB#29
firepower
entire accounting module on a PDP-11 by flipping toggle switches.
Needless to say, I wasn't too impressed with his claims... wouldn't you
just interface a keyboard? I used punched paper tape on my first time
share PDP-11. You programmed/punched off-line and then read the whole
tape in and executed.
I guess it took a while before WMS figured out auto/up manual/down and
how to use the credit button to increment/decrement integers. I make
that Flash, definately in System4, so very early in '79. Flash is the
oldest SS WMS I have owned.
Bally interfaced a keypad to 6803 games (and slots):
http://mad-amusements.com/product.php?id_product=991
which was a cool idea for the time it came out, c. '85.
If only service people had keypads, wouldn't it keep someone else from
changing the settings? "Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers!"
-Richard
David Gersic
> David Gersic wrote:
>
>>
>>> The only explanation I can think of for this foolishness is that they
>>> didn't think of the other ways to do it!
>>
>> I think it just made sense to them.
>
> That's scary.
Not really. But then again, I have a binary LED clock on my desk.
--
| David Gersic http://www.zaccaria-pinball.com |
| Windows 95: From the people who brought you EDLIN.EXE |
firepower
it was meant to. Kind of funny he's called Andre Boot. Or is it the
Andre "Boot ROM"?
I would love a patched version to add to the arsenal of WMS diagnostic
programs. To kind of paraphrase Clay, ...we are not in "Bally Land"
now, Toto..."
-Richard
Chris Hibler
I haven't had time to work through the code yet...had to get a S3
board running over the weekend. I'll have to brush up on my 6800
assembly coding... :-)
Unless of course, Scott Charles wants to look into it!
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
seymour.shabow
>
> I haven't had time to work through the code yet...had to get a S3
> board running over the weekend. I'll have to brush up on my 6800
> assembly coding... :-)
Looked at it already shouldn't take you too long to go through it - it's
pretty short. The system 7 version looks longer at a cursory glance -
it's kind of tough to figure out why it wouldn't work in a real machine
unless you had a real-time debugger on an actual machine (now that, I
would like to have..... I guess that's what a logic analyzer with a 6800
pod is for??)
-scott CARGPB#29
OHMI_ARCADE
to poke around.
I can't seem to find it anywhere... even the link on Marvins gives me
an empty zip file.
Thanks!
Tim
marsh at utlaw dot net
Chris Hibler
OHMI_ARCADE
Chris Hibler
> All.. check out:
>
> http://code.google.com/p/lcd-pinball-display/
Cool...looks like you were able to dig up a bit more information...
mc6800
Stubled across this post. beter late than never?
For who is interested.There is a new version of the testroms for
williams 3-6 available together with some other homebrew stuff.
http://code.google.com/p/lcd-pinball-display/updates/list
A year or 2 ago i checked the binary at marvin, it seemed to be
incorrect.
http://lcd-pinball-display.googlecode.com/files/testrom%20v%200.5.zip
Kind regards
mc6800
craigne...@gmail.com
> Good Evening RGP,
>
> I was fiddling with a System 3 MPU and wanted to try Andre's test ROM
> that Clay notes in the guides. I've burned the ROM but the
> instructions call for a "key" to be placed on MPU connector 1J4, which
> contains the "memory protect" signal. But, the documentation never
> says what the "key" is or what pins should be connected in what way.
>
> Does anyone know what "key" the instructions are referring to?
> I assume it's a jumper to connect a pin or two to ground, but that's
> just a guess.
> Thanks folks!
> Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
> www.Team-EM.com
> http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
I've written some ROMs for Williams System 3, 4, 6 pinball machines games that are very simple to use, and can be used in-game, so you don't need any test fixtures.
Install and power up each ROM in order to quickly help you identify problems with your entire machine.
They have been tested on a GORGAR (system 6) machine and work great!
System 6 games:
Tri Zone
Time Warp
Gorgar
Laser Ball
FirePower
Blackout
Scorpion
Algar
Alien Poker
System 4 games:
Pokerino
Phoenix
Flash
Stellar Wars
System 3 games:
Hot Tip
Lucky Seven
World Cup
Contact
Disco Fever
They are 2716 (2K) ROMs and can also be used in a 2816 EEPROM.
You can get them all in a single zip file here: http://pincoder.reversion.ca
Hope this helps!
Craig