Screwed 2X this weekend by CL sellers......WTF?!?!?!
VDOJAQ
out on Saturday because of a B.S. seller that lied to me off of CL, it
gets better.
This afternoon, an ad popped up on the Appleton(WI) CL for a Gottlieb
Tee'd Off.(I personally wanted both of these games for collection).
The guy lists it as $300, fully working, the kids are off to college,
and the pictures look great. I call him at 5:15 tonight. Talk to the
guy and he said he has only had one call so far and a guy wanted to
look at it tomorrow. I ask him if I can come and buy it tonight. He
says sure! No problem! Then I explain that I will buy it for the
asking price, I have cash in hand, and it will take me about 2.5 hours
to get there because he is 160 miles North of me. I proceed to tell
him that I will be in my car in 5 minutes and on my way, consider the
game sold.
Low and behold , my cell rings at 6pm and the guy explains to me that
the game is now sold. I ask "what do mean it is sold, I am 40 minutes
into my drive up to you" Well, he says , another guy called and said
he would be here in 15 minutes , I just wanted to tell you it will be
gone by the time you get here. I told him that's not fair, I am
driving up for it as I explained in the phone call and that I would
100% take it. He says "well, what was I supposed to do?" I proceed to
tell him that "you should be a man of your word, and keep to our deal!
You should have told him you had someone on the way for it already!" I
can't now , he says, the guy just pulled up. I hesitated for about 5
seconds and couldn't hold back. I told him " you know what, sell the
guy the game, I don't deal with people who can't keep thier fucking
word on a deal" " Oh, you can go fuck yourself as well!" and I hung
up.
WTF is wrong with people today? Maybe I was too harsh, but he caught
me at the wrong time to pull this crap! What is this a Gottlieb
curse?
Bottom line is I know he was way low on his price for the game, but
that's not the point. Whatever!
vidgameseller
However, the guy said he had someone coming tommorow and you said
yourself, what if i get there tonight. So what if the third person
said that he will get there even quicker, which is apparently what
happened.
I guess that the only thing that you can do is keep the seller on the
phone for the whole time your driving, this way he cant talk to anyone
else
PinballAddict
I feel sorry for you. People today have no decency what-so-ever. All
they care about is themselves.What you are going through really makes
me second guess any thoughts I have of driving a long distance to pick
up a machine. You end up putting all that time aside and travel so
far, only to find out that the machine was sold out from under you to
somebody else. I hope your luck get's better.
Jay
phishrace
I wouldn't have even tried. More than 100 miles away and way under
priced. Both are red flags. Both together are don't even bother.
Plus, it's craigslist. You should expect shit like this. Plenty here
have 'changed their mind'. Why should craigslist be any better?
-phish
JimB
it. Maybe that was what he was fishing for,
DS9
The first rule of Craigs List : There are no rules!
If you swim with Sharks expect to get bitten.
At least he called you and you didn't waste 5 hour drive. This happens
all the time on CL. Some buyers will offer more cash.
It's just the old Trading Times days only electronic. Good luck with
your hunt.
Ken
VDOJAQ
No, he said a guy wanted to LOOK at it tomorrow. I offered to BUY it
sight unseen tonight.....big difference in my book. And, I was already
on my way, as he knew!!!
John Dayhuff
On Jan 16, 9:11 pm, JimB <jl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I guess the only thing you could do is offered him more money to hold
> it. Maybe that was what he was fishing for,
I've had this happen to me, but only after I traveled 2.5 hours in
rush hour Detroit traffic to get there and then find out from his wife
that he sold the game during that time and didn't have the balls to
tell me face to face because he left so that his wife would have to
tell me that he sold it to someone 20 minutes away that offered $200
more then his asking price.
Craigslist used to be a great thing ( just like Ebay ) but its such a
dog eat dog world now that its a joke just looking on either one these
days, let alone trying to buy something off there. Where are all
these money hungy people when I'm trying to sell a game on there? Not
that I would sell it out from someone that said there in route to come
get it but how come nobody ever offer's me more money then I'm asking
for a game...??
John P. Dayhuff
Battle Creek, Mi.
269-979-3836
Ron Lyons
> i understand your pain, ive had this happen before to me as well.
> However, the guy said he had someone coming tommorow and you said
> yourself, what if i get there tonight. So what if the third person
> said that he will get there even quicker, which is apparently what
> happened.
>
Exactly. It sucks, and it's unfortunate, but first come first served
is just how it is. If the guy would have saved it for you; you never
would have showed up. You beat another guy there; another guy beat
you there. Dog Eat Dog!
Ron
Ron Lyons
> Craig's List is a leper colony. That guy was a huge douche to reneg but I agree with vidgame seller, what you did to the first guy is no different then what the next guy did to you. The seller should have done the right thing and given the first guy that called a chance to see it and buy it and if he passed, moved onto to inquirer #2.
I disagree; you'll be holding games forever if you do that. First
come first served is the only fair way to do it.
Ron
vivasantana
>
> - Show quoted text -
Maybe no rules but it is bullshit just the same. It is wrong period.
Trading times? Think maybe back then if you pulled shit like this, you
may have ended up with some lead in the head.
Rob
VDOJAQ
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree, bullshit!
And I am not too sure what to think about those of you here who think
what the seller did is OK, or supporting his side. All the seller had
to do was call me 30 minutes after I said I was leaving and asked if I
was on my way. If I had said no, or gave him an excuse, then by all
means he should sell it to someone else. Then I am the one to blame. I
didn't step in front of anybody, the seller had NO DEAL with the guy
who wanted to look at it first. I made a deal with the guy and was
holding up my end, as the terms we agreed on. Also, he could have
waited until 8pm as well, if I no show , then I am fucked. This is
not like I was asking anyone to hold something for days, it was 2 1/2
hours only because I had to drive to get there. Fuck anyone who sells
something out from another person who has already made shipping
arrangments, or is already traveling to make such a purchase.
As a seller, if I gave my word that I am holding it for you, then it
is yours until you prove otherwise. That's called having a solid
reputation and morales. You start hmmming and hawwiing, come up with
excuses, then the deal is off.
pinfan
>
> - Show quoted text -
he figured HE HAD TO MAKE THAT DREDDED CALL.... since there are no
rules.. if the buyer from 2.5hrs away gets close ... and then the
seller calls...Good LORD the buyer may have kept coming, went balistic
and we would have seen it "play out that night on Fox news". Like a
couple of the folks prior mentioned...ITS CL, its sharks, its deals,
there's money to be made, and people will step all over each other to
make $20bucks. Hey guys... this doesnt just happen for pinballs..
IT HAPPENS FOR EVERYTHING THAT IS PRICED CHEAP ON CRAIGS....
I feel for the guy that thought he had a deal.... and as each and
every day passes you realize the days of the deals on craigslist are
getting to be far and few between. EVERYONE IS EVERYWHERE ALL THE
TIME, AND EVERY SELLER IS PARTIALLY EDUCATED or educated enough to
make sure he knows he has urban gold!
Dan Q very much
What are you doing even looking on my local Podunk CL? The pinballs
here appear so infrequently that it is totally unfair for non-locals
to try to horn in! You live in the land of pinball plenty, give us
hicks a break!
;)
PT
> No, he said a guy wanted to LOOK at it tomorrow. I offered to BUY it
> sight unseen tonight.....big difference in my book. And, I was already
> on my way, as he knew!!!
Seems like he never agreed to hold it for you (or you left out that
important detail in your descriptions). Craigslist is full of tire
kickers and no-shows. First one with cash in hand gets the item.
Sucks for you, but I fail to see what the seller did wrong? At least
he called you before you drove all the way.
Next time get the seller to agree to hold it for you...or don't be a
bitch when it gets sold. When I deal on Craigslist as a buyer or
seller it is always under the stated assumption that the first person
to show up with cash gets the item. Period.
John
VDOJAQ
Um, I would assume that you could comprehend that he agreed that he
was selling it to me, which means he was holding it for me to complete
the transaction by 8pm. Sorry your skills don't reach that far. As far
as me being a bitch, I think you saying that proves what kind of
person you are.
Get bent.
Rob Santore
says sure! No problem! Then I explain that I will buy it for the
asking price, I have cash in hand, and it will take me about 2.5
hours
to get there because he is 160 miles North of me. I proceed to tell
him that I will be in my car in 5 minutes and on my way, consider the
game sold. "
This paragraph tells me all i need to know about this situation. Once
the buyer asks if he can come buy it tonight and the seller says
"sure!", thats a binding verbal contract in my opinion. Also the buyer
saying "consider the game sold" should be enough for the seller to
understand they had a deal.
With that being said, one of 2 things happened to cause this:
1) Someone called shortly after and offered between $500-700 for the
machine sight unseen and the seller pulled a bullshit move
or
2) This is somehow connected with the first CL ad for the Shaq and
other machine in an effort to mess with you, hoping you'd call and try
to snatch the "fake" machine only to piss you off further.
#2 is much more far fetched but on CL, I wouldnt rule it out.
Big Daddy
reflects the general condition of much of what is not quite right in
our country (U.S.) nowadays. People anymore just lack alot of couth,
common sense, or faith in their fellow man.
I was more than just pleasantly surprised when I spied a rather yummy
HSII on a local CL last weekend for $1,000.
Oddly enough, the 68-year old woman who owned it (go granny go, lol),
said yes, she would hold it for until the next afternoon if I really
wanted to come look it over (68 miles away), and then take it home.
(Huh? Really?)
I figure that based on all the CL BS anymore, her age reflects that
good old era when a seller's word was their bond - and so was the
buyer's.
I'm now a happy HSII owner, and what surprises me most from the whole
experience is that someone didn't just snag it out from under me
before I got there the next day.
Thank you, Granny, for helping restore some of my faith in the human
race!
:)
BD
VDOJAQ
No way it is #2. His phone # matches his location and is a much older
person that my first bogus deal from the weekend. It was obvious on
the first one that she(Julie, the seller) was holding out for more
money the whole time. I tried to go and get it 4 nights straight! It
was only 20 minutes from me. The seller kept putting me off.
MrBally
>
> - Show quoted text -
Trading Times; Advertise FREE! Pay only if and when you sell.
Remember, they would call you about the listed item.... When you told
'em it was sold they said; great, this is Trading Times, you owe us
six bucks for the ad. Could you imagine how that would work today
with caller ID?
Jim D. in TN
> I figure that based on all the CL BS anymore, her age reflects that
> good old era when a seller's word was their bond - and so was the
> buyer's.
There's good and bad. In the last year I've bought a Freddy for $600
on CL and the woman waited 3-4 days for me despite higher offers.
Also, a Cue Ball Wizard for $500 I think was listed for a day or two
before I picked it up. I committed to buy a Fire for $250 but the
seller called saying they had found out it was worth more and wanted
me to make an offer. I was mildly disappointed but I didn't feel it
was newsworthy enough for me to notify the entire pinball world,
though.
daveebs
I totally agree with DanQ. Why even look at Craigslist ads so far
away, it will just lead to heartache and frustration. Nothing like
getting teased all the time! Plus you tried to screw the first person
who was coming to look at it the same exact way. Karma.
I just wondering why if a person has enough brains to create an
account and post a Craigslist ad, why can't he spend a few minutes
surfing the web to find out what a fair price for a Teed' Off would
be? It just doesn't add up. Go to ebay, type in Tee'd Off pinball, two
pop up, one at $2195 and the other at $1795. Hmmm...$300
sounds too good to be true.
I think it must be a Packer fan screwing with you!
CJ
couldn't come look at it for a couple more days, I said I can meet
today, any time. Confirmed I would buy the machine, and at sellers
availability I was meeting him 3:00PM to pick it up. 2:50PM I get a
call (as I'm 2 minutes away from the guy's house) calling to tell me
the other guy came over and it's now sold, he's taking it away.
People.
cj
kmoore88
Rob Santore
> But for some of you out there it's ok to screw a seller when they low-ball the price because they dont know what they got - then it's the sellers problem they don't know the market value, but when they hold out for more or find a better deal then they are the jerks. Can't have it both ways.
It's impossible to "screw the seller"..... it's the seller's
responsibility to know what they have, not the buyers. If everyone
were out looking for the seller's well being, we'd all be buying cars
at 40K over invoice, fighting over who can spend $10K on a Williams
Big Guns and buying homes 100K over market value.
kmoore88
ldnayman
It's craigslist. You simply shouldnt be driving 3 hours for a CL
deal.
We all know craigslist by now. It's a flea market where people who
have never met, and will never meet again, buy and sell stuff.
You can't expect things like "honor" on CL. People are just trying to
unload their crap for as much $ as they can.
It's deal at your own risk for everyone involved.
Keep it local, and don't take it too seriously, and youll be ok.
David B.
I completed a pin purchase very recently and it went perfectly. Found
it on cl. All the communication was via email. The pick up time was
set about 5 days after the first contact. I told the seller that I be
leaving at such and such a time and would call to let him know at that
time that I was on the way. An hour and a half later I was at his
place and paid the agreed to price and was gone in 45 min.
The seller was a nice gentleman whose age I'd guess may have been
around 60. I asked him if he had any other calls about the pin and he
said he had one guy that was pushy. He didn't want to sell it to him
so he promised it to me. So here was a seller that was patient and
honest and I am thankful for it.
ldnayman
absolutely no sense.
In this magical world of honor that supposedly used to exist (when was
it? The 50s? The 70s?) THERE WAS NO INTERNET.
How can you point to craigslist as some sign of the decline of our
once great nation when its only existed for 10 years?
Please put this to bed asap. It's bullshit.
Like I said - keep it local, don't take it too seriously, and you'll
be happy. I use CL all the time and I love it, and have never had a
bad experience. I just unloaded a 10 year old receiver for 60 bucks.
Before CL, I would have just thrown it out.
Love CL. Lack of honor and sign of the apocalypse and all.
VDOJAQ
>
> - Show quoted text -
How DID I SCREW ANYONE? Obviosly some of you here have no clue about
the real business world works. The caller before me wanted to come
look at the game the next day. I made a deal to buy that night, a
verbal contract. I screwed NO ONE. If this is how you really think,
then you would not last too long as a business owner. Does a car
dealership not sell a car because someone says I will be in tomorrow
to LOOK at it? ARE YOU FOR REAL?
so
>
> I was more than just pleasantly surprised when I spied a rather yummy
> HSII on a local CL last weekend for $1,000.
> Oddly enough, the 68-year old woman who owned it (go granny go, lol),
> BD
You know, as you get older 68 won't seem so old anymore.
scott
Ben Yetter
GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED! that is all.
Ron Lyons
>
> - Show quoted text -
I think you're getting a little too bent out of shape.
The logic that you're using is flawed. You're saying you were more
special than the first caller, why is that? Because you used
different words on the phone?
1 person calls. They say they'll come look at the game saturday
morning.
2nd person calls. He says he's coming right now, he'll pay cash, it's
SOLD! When he gets there, he'll give you the money for it!
3rd person calls. He says he's coming right now, he'll pay cash, it's
SOLD! When he gets there, he'll give you the money for it!
One of the three kept his end of the bargain, showed up, paid cash,
and gave the man the money for it. It was NOT you.
Notice how until the man showed up, all the three people had said they
were going to do something; the guy that showed up was the only one
who actually did.
Now, you're going to say, "But Ron, I was in the car on the way!"
Sure you were.
How does the seller know that? He knows what you SAID. You said
people have no honor. Honor isn't involved in this. If you want
chivalry, go lay your jacket down over a puddle. The simple fact is,
as a seller, buyers call, and email, many times saying they're going
to do something, and then don't do it. If you see something that you
think is a good deal, you need to go get it before anybody else does.
You got there too late. The only people who believe everything they
hear over the phone are 16 year old girls in high school.
For your car dealer analogy, are you serious? If you call a car
dealer and say you'll be there in 3 hours, don't sell the blue one,
and a man shows up in 20 minutes... guess what? The blue one's sold!
There's no honor involved in this, and it wouldn't be honorable for
the car lot OR the pinball seller to hold the game for you.
Ron
Max Badazz
posted pins on CL quite a few times. I get tons of people coming from
a distance that want me to hold it. Guess what, they never come.
Then I email back the others interested that I told I was holding for
another, and they don't want it. Sorry, but first cash wins and thats
the way it should be. Taking a trip is taking a gamble that you need
to understand the results. I can give you some sympathy, but being
someone who has been screwed by people claiming to be coming over to
buy my game and losing out on a sale when they never show up, you need
to accept what happened and just move on
Chris (in NH)
http://usergallery.myhomegameroom.com/gallery/maxbadazz
MrBally
>
> - Show quoted text -
So true with the car dealers. I found a used car I wanted at a dealer
in Downers Grove on the internet. Looked at the pictures and decided I
wanted it. Had them send me a Carfax and said "I'll take it". Gave 'em
$1k via credit card over the phone and said I'll pick it up in three
weeks. The dude said "Unless it's fully paid for, someone else can pay
for it in full and it will be theirs". I asked would I get my deposit
back? He said yes, Illinois Law. I said fine, I'll roll the dice since
the car was listed for five months already. As It got closer to the
date, nobody else bought the car so I decided to finance the balance
through the dealer's bank. That way, if I arrived and it turned out to
be a POS, I could walk away without it and just lose $1k as opposed to
a whole lot more as this was an expensive toy. The wanted me to fly in
and they would pick me up. I'll bet if I walked from the car I'd have
to find my own way back to ORD or MWY so we drove in instead, a day
early in fact to look at the car before they expected me there.
I know, I would "damage my credit rating" by walking from the loan and
car-at least they would no have to repo it... BFD, I would not have
been ripped off by a car dealer though and that was more important.
Car turned out fine, so I paid it off a few months later.
PT
John
chip...@aol.com
hi
if you were keeping the wipeout why not buy the one on ebay thats in
really nice shape and complete
it was local to us.
freeman
600 for a wipeout seems like a very fair deal. If that was close to
me, I would be *all over it*.
wait, i think this is what happens...
VDOJAQ
>
> - Show quoted text -
Your right, I am getting too bent out of shape over this.
It is quite obvious that some of you do not value a person's word, or
the value of a verbal agreement. That's fine, live in that world and
suffer the consequences.
And some do not know the difference between tire kicking and making a
deal. As a seller myself, if someone states that they want to come
look at something, thats fine, I do not consider that a "binding"
deal. In my opinion it is still for sale. However, when I come to
terms with someone, agree on prices, and time frame, that is
considered a BINDING deal. I will turn down all others until the buyer
defaults on his end, such as a no show, no money, changing terms.
Here is how I look at it all, and if I am wrong so be it.
Caller #1 Says I want to look at the game, I will come tomorrow. My
view is Ok fine, if it is still here , you can look at it. Caller has
no priority at this point, no deal has been made.
Caller #2(me) Says I will buy the game, terms are set, we have an
agreement. My view is that is a binding deal/verbal sales agreement.
Deal has been made by both parties, both buyer and seller should stick
to it.
Caller #3 Says I will buy the game. This is my view as to what the
seller should have done/said- Ok fine, however, I have it a deal on it
for 8pm, if that buyer pulls a no-show or something else, I will call
you back and you can have it. Can I have your number? The seller then
in turn could have called me and said, Hey are you on your way?
Because I have another buyer if you are not. At that point, if I was
screwing around, then by all means sell it to the other guy.
If some of you cannot see this as a reasonable way to do business,
then I feel sorry for you. Those of you that laugh when some of us
point out that people of today have no value to their word or morale,
you should look in the mirror, you will see part of the problem. I
love how some justify it because of the "internet".
I am done, thank you for listening, carry on.
VDOJAQ
>
> - Show quoted text -
You know, you off all people shouldn't be asking that question. You
are a bold face liar.
seymour.shabow
> If some of you cannot see this as a reasonable way to do business,
> then I feel sorry for you. Those of you that laugh when some of us
> point out that people of today have no value to their word or morale,
> you should look in the mirror, you will see part of the problem. I
> love how some justify it because of the "internet".
>
> I am done, thank you for listening, carry on.
Yes, but you're now using this situation as a reason to bash other
people who are trying to help you (or at least, trying to have a
conversation with you....unless you just wanted to post without
responses, or at least without responses that just say "yeah, man you're
completely right). The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what YOUR
morals are, it matters what the other guy's are. Clearly yours and his
don't match, and what most of the people in the thread are trying to
tell you is that Craig's list is just rife with this. You're turning it
around and trying to extrapolate that out to the respondents' morals and
practices - which isn't the case in a lot of the responses.
Complaining about it on RGP will never fix the morals problem that
others have. It actually makes it seem like you might be a difficult
person to deal with since you're harping on how 1000% correct YOU are.
(also how you don't see anything wrong with waiting your turn to get to
the game - someone else had an appointment first, but because you wanted
to complete the deal right away, there was nothing wrong with cutting
that guy out, in your view. Now, to that guy, if that was the earliest
he could have gotten there, he probably thinks your approach stinks.)
I have a morals question back for you - what if you got there after
saying "Consider it sold I'll be there in an hour to get it" and you got
there and it was a shell of a game not even worth $300 (fire,
boards/display gone, worst shape you could imagine, mold, etc. - really
worth maybe $50.) - would you have still paid the $300 and taken away
garbage?
-scott CARGPB#29
Jay
Jay
> I didn't step in front of anybody, the seller had NO DEAL with the guy
> who wanted to look at it first. I made a deal with the guy and was
> holding up my end, as the terms we agreed on.
How do you know that the seller had no deal with the other guy? You're going to take him for his word? Doesn't sound like his word is worth two shits to me.
Jonny O
If the other guy was a tire kicker and nothing more you wouldn't have
rushed to make a deal and offer cash right away. You were obviously
worried that the tire kicker was going to become a tire buyer and you
scooped the deal from under him. It's also possible the seller
contacted the so-called tire kicker and gave him one last chance to
put cash on the barrel head.
I can understand you being upset that you missed the deal but to say
this is about business ethics gone amiss? Too funny.
VDOJAQ
wrote:
The guy fired up the game for me while I was on the phone, I could
hear it play. Otherwise I would have not made that deal. Yes, there
are sellers that think because lights come on, it's a working game. I
walk everyone I deal with through particular questions when I buy
sight unseen. Yes, It is a gamble when you buy like this. There is
nothing wrong with saying to a seller hold the phone up and power on
the game. Trust me ,it works!!!
Josh A.
> I use CL all the time and I love it, and have never had a
> bad experience.
This wasn't a CL deal?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.pinball/msg/fdd0368f8876c9d5?hl=en%C2%9Dedd64242a122
VDOJAQ
>
> - Show quoted text -
Like I said , I am done explaining my point of view. I just am shocked
at some of your responses, they are a joke. You all know damn well if
it had, or has happened to you, you would be just as pissed at this
seller. What a bunch of hyprocrites some of you are.LOL!
PT
> at some of your responses, they are a joke. You all know damn well if
> it had, or has happened to you, you would be just as pissed at this
> seller. What a bunch of hyprocrites some of you are.LOL!
No matter what you told the seller, you never had a verbal agreement
unless the seller actually said the words: "OK it is a deal, I will
hold the game until you get here."
You said you were going to come and buy it for sure with cash in hand,
but from your own description he never promised you anything. As I
said before, it sucks for you, but first come first served. At least
he called. Next time get the seller to specifically say that he will
hold the game for you even if someone shows up first with cash in
hand...
Funny how you can't even try to see the other side of this when so
many people have chimed in to explain how things work on CL.
John
seymour.shabow
>
> Like I said , I am done explaining my point of view. I just am shocked
> at some of your responses, they are a joke. You all know damn well if
> it had, or has happened to you, you would be just as pissed at this
> seller. What a bunch of hyprocrites some of you are.LOL!
Yes, I think everyone would be pissed. However, you're now using the
thread to get pissed at the responders. People that in the future,
might have games they want to sell cheaply, but might remember, hmmmm,
he was kind of going off the deep end in that thread, I might not want
to sell it to him, if he's this pissed at a craig's list deal gone sour,
is he going to be "my new best buddy" (not in a good way) if I sell him
something?
Or, since you want everyone to sympathize with your original message,
you need to sympathize with some other responses..... see others' points
of view. Getting angry never solves problems and just ruins your day.
Most of the responses are along the lines of "this is the way it works"
which I don't equate to what those responses=that poster would do the
same thing.
The bottom line is Joe Public Craig's List seller is assumed to not have
any morals at all. Maybe it's sad and a sad statement on society in
general, but it is currently the way it is. Let it go..... other things
will come along.
-scott CARGPB#29
Ron, (Boatcat)
>him if I can come and buy it tonight.
You're sounding like an idiot! You ran
out the door thinking you had to beat the first guy
there. If you guaranteed you'd purchase, what
was the rush? You were equally as deviate!
If you really had morals, you would've
said, "Consider it sold if the first guy decides to
pass."
VDOJAQ
Again, I only hold grudge to the seller who backdoored me. A good,
heated argument on RGP is not worth holding any grudges against anyone
here. . However, If I am an idiot for expecting somone to hold up
their end of a deal, then I am THE idiot. Then there is something
seriously wrong with society as a whole. Yes, we had a deal, both
parties agreed on. I am sorry that I do not have copy or verbatum of
the entire 15 minute phone call with the seller to share here .
Everyone here is entitled to spin it anyway they wish, I still call
BULLSHIT on the seller, and those here who side with what the seller
did. BOTTOM LINE!.
As soon as someone here had to say I was being a bitch, then you bet,
the gloves are off!
I knew it was a damn good deal. Yes I wanted to jump on it. I stepped
on no one, or in front of anyone. The seller agreed that it was mine
in our deal, and then backstabbed me. Won't be the first time I lose
out on a deal, and won't be the last. I came here to vent on a
situation that each here has dealt with. I still say those who defend
this seller are full of hot air, especially when it happens to them
7Warpig7
I also think the people defending the seller are not right. However,
as people have already pointed out it's the nature of the beast when
dealing on Craigslist. Right or wrong you should know what to expect
and be able to handle it, otherwise stay away from Craigslist. If you
volunteer to walk accross a minefield people do not want to hear you
complain when you get yourself blown up.
CEG
IMO the seller should have atleast given you a time to be there by.
sounds like he just wanted to unload it to the first person that
showed up. Sucked for you though.
VDOJAQ
>
> - Show quoted text -
Point well taken about expectations on C.L. and I do know as much. I
really just wanted to share the story for others who have had the same
thing happen. It's not only CL , there are POS sellers on Ebay too!
VDOJAQ
>
> - Show quoted text -
We did, we agreed on 8pm!
Pin_Nut
That's the nature of the beast..... I found a Taxi on CL 8 mos ago,
called the lady and asked when was a good time for her, she said
tonight's good.. 2 hrs and 45 minutes later I'm 10 minutes from her
house and I get a TXT " been offered 850.00 for it- What's your bid?" I
called her and told her my bid is the price she was originally asking
and I was 10 minutes from her!! I told her I've been looking for one for
3 years and that I was turning around and heading home, GL with your
sale..... Shit happens on CL.. However I for one refuse to fall victim
of the shenanigans and extortion... Win some lose some.......
When I sell something on CL and have several people interested in it
and have someone traveling, I tell the second/third/fourth person that
someones coming to look at it, I'll call you and let you know if it's
still for sale or not!!!!
--
Pin_Nut
This USENET post sent from http://rgparchive.com
CEG
>
> - Show quoted text -
On another note I was selling a maching to someone a couple of months
ago. A middle man who was a pinball guy contacted me inquiring about
the machine. He in turn gave me the e-mail & phone # to the gentleman
who was actually the buyer, and we agreed on a date for him to come
get it (next weekend). I spent 3 days moving games around in my
gameroom so the machine would be easier to move..
Fast forward to 4 days later I e-mail & call him (left message) asking
if we're still on about the machine. No answer.. I then e-mail the
middle man guy who then contacts the buyer, and I then get an email
stating they found a game somewhere else. Gee guy thanks for letting
me know.. My time was wasted.
Ceegary
>
> - Show quoted text -
Many here have posted about the nature of Craigslist but it doesn't
seem to be getting through. Craigslist is a different animal. There is
no community, no society, is no feedback, the only real rule is money
talks and bullshit walks. If you'd done any selling on it you'd know
that when someone replies to an ad you have no idea who they are,
whether they will or won't follow through or if they're just another
flake, which happens a lot. The first buyer could well have commited
to buy it too and the seller just reported that as someone coming over
the next day. Reminds me of a woman who has an affair with a married
man, he divorces and marries her, then she's shocked when he screws
around on her. Like Groucho's line of not wanting to be a member of
any club that would accept him as a member.
Sure there are some people on Craigslist who will hold true to their
word, that is until they get screwed by that too many times. A buyer
who's deal is reneged upon is just out the opportunity, time and
effort, the seller reneged upon is stuck with the goods not selling,
plus their time & effort so they have more to lose. That's why money
talks. It's not defending the seller it's understanding the nature of
the game. Some sellers wouldn't have even bothered to call, he did it
just in case you were for real. If you don't like the rules stay out
of the playground. The only time there is a definitive deal is when
money has changed hands, EVERYTHING else is just potential for a
seller and a buyer should view it the same way. Not because that's
right, or moral or fair, it's just because that's how it IS!!!
GRY
Gott Lieb?
Jim
PS The touchup on the lower left side of the head is pretty extensive.
I can only imagine where else the blue has been repainted.
Rompen
> I totally agree with DanQ. Why even look at Craigslist ads so far
> away, it will just lead to heartache and frustration. Nothing like
> getting teased all the time! Plus you tried to screw the first person
> who was coming to look at it the same exact way. Karma.
On at least three occasions, I've had people from a few hundred miles
away make me promise to hold machines for them, and then either not
show up, or call me much later and say they were delayed or wanted to
postpone to the next day. About half the time, even with local
people, I get, "I definitely want it - I'll come by after work.." and
never show up - so now I don't even give out my address until right
when they say they're coming. And as a matter of policy I won't hold
machines for people far away (unless I know them or a friend has
vouched for them) -- it's just too much of a hassle. I've also had
people agree on a price, then come out and not have the money they
agreed upon and cause a big scene when I wouldn't accommodate their
new terms. It's much more of a nightmare for sellers than it is
buyers on CL.
Ron Lyons
> Your right, I am getting too bent out of shape over this.
>
> It is quite obvious that some of you do not value a person's word, or
> the value of a verbal agreement. That's fine, live in that world and
> suffer the consequences.
You also live in that world, and suffer the consequences. It's just
that you don't want to admit you do. If everybody kept their word,
yes the man should have saved it. Everyone does not. That's the
problem, and that's the world you and I both live in.
>
> And some do not know the difference between tire kicking and making a
> deal. As a seller myself, if someone states that they want to come
> look at something, thats fine, I do not consider that a "binding"
> deal. In my opinion it is still for sale. However, when I come to
> terms with someone, agree on prices, and time frame, that is
> considered a BINDING deal. I will turn down all others until the buyer
> defaults on his end, such as a no show, no money, changing terms.
If someone calls, they are kicking the tires. A deal is done when
they're standing there buying it. I've had countless people tell me
they'll buy something, and didn't. Words do not make a deal.
>
> Here is how I look at it all, and if I am wrong so be it.
>
> Caller #1 Says I want to look at the game, I will come tomorrow. My
> view is Ok fine, if it is still here , you can look at it. Caller has
> no priority at this point, no deal has been made.
>
> Caller #2(me) Says I will buy the game, terms are set, we have an
> agreement. My view is that is a binding deal/verbal sales agreement.
> Deal has been made by both parties, both buyer and seller should stick
> to it.
>
> Caller #3 Says I will buy the game. This is my view as to what the
> seller should have done/said- Ok fine, however, I have it a deal on it
> for 8pm, if that buyer pulls a no-show or something else, I will call
> you back and you can have it. Can I have your number? The seller then
> in turn could have called me and said, Hey are you on your way?
> Because I have another buyer if you are not. At that point, if I was
> screwing around, then by all means sell it to the other guy.
>
> If some of you cannot see this as a reasonable way to do business,
> then I feel sorry for you. Those of you that laugh when some of us
> point out that people of today have no value to their word or morale,
> you should look in the mirror, you will see part of the problem. I
> love how some justify it because of the "internet".
>
> I am done, thank you for listening, carry on.-
It's shameful that you keep saying that it's a morality thing. It is
not. The seller would be foolish to save the game for everyone who
says they'll buy it. In many instances, they'll never show up. Just
to rub salt in the wound, let me point out that you never showed up to
buy the game you said you were going to. Why is that? If you're
really so bound by honor, surely you should have made the trip like
you said you were going to. Do words not have value to you? You said
you were going to come by the game from the gentleman, and then never
even made it to his house. You even admit that you turned around and
didn't go hold up your end of the deal. Shame, Shame, Shame. I can't
believe you're so immoral.
Ron
seeburg220
it, but at least he called you back. I think the sale would have gone
smoother, had the seller advertised "I will be selling this game at
5pm, and whoever gets here first with cash, gets it." I just bought
and sold several games on CL and had good experiences on all of the
transactions. Sure there are times like this, when it doesn't pan
out, but it's better than the old days when you had to buy the Want Ad
book from 7-11 and hope there were pins for sale. (That's how I bought
my first one in '85)...Lesson learned for buyers and sellers.
VDOJAQ
>
> - Show quoted text -
I know what your saying is tongue in cheek, but you are just laying
out some real horseshit here. I swear some of you just don't get it at
all. C'mon, get real.
VDOJAQ
>
> - Show quoted text -
Really, I am supposed to show up after the machine has already been
sold out from under me? How frickin stupid could you be? Shameful
because I expect some to keep their word for a whole 2 and a half
hours? Where do you people come from? It's is thought and theories
such as this that make C.L. and E-bay the shitholes they have become.
Have I entered the twilight zone?
trickpony
But of course no one does that. I certainly don't. And if someone beats me to the pin, or offers more to get it, I get upset, but at myself, not the seller.
Ron Lyons
> Really, I am supposed to show up after the machine has already been
> sold out from under me? How frickin stupid could you be? Shameful
> because I expect some to keep their word for a whole 2 and a half
> hours? Where do you people come from? It's is thought and theories
> such as this that make C.L. and E-bay the shitholes they have become.
>
The Honorable, moral thing to do, since you had given the guy your
WORD, would be to complete your end of the deal. You had a verbal
agreement, you gave that man your WORD that you would be there to buy
that machine. A binding, verbal agreement mind you. Over the
telephone. You admitted to all of us what a bottom feeding, immoral,
dishonerable person you are by not completing your end of it. Do two
wrongs make a right? Really????
:)
Ron
ldnayman
Sure wasn't Josh. That was rgp or mrpinball, don't remember.
I'm so glad you are keeping tabs on all of us though with that cute
lil' encyclopedic brain of yours. We can always count on you, the
poster of record.
VDOJAQ
Ron, stop you are making a complete fool of yourself. Once the seller
broke our deal, it's ALL off.
Dan Q very much
Yeah, uh huh, Ron is.
Trevor
immoral for him to accept a higher offer? $300 is a ridiculously low
price for a fully working Tee'd Off in good condition, and even an
offer of double that is still a very good price. Maybe your morals are
questionable because you didn't bother to tell him that game is worth
more.
Maybe the 3rd caller was nicer to him on the phone, or didn't make him
turn the game on and hold the phone up to it to make sure he wasn't
BSing him or wasting his time. That may or may not have been a turn-
off to the seller, who knows?
Maybe the seller thought he was doing you a favor by not making you
run a 5 hour round trip to buy some old pinball machine he didn't need
or want anymore. Most non-pinball people don't understand how serious
a lot of us are about these machines. Maybe he thought you'd try to
get the price cut lower because you were traveling so far.
All of what I've said is hypothetical, though. What happened
happened, and if it makes you feel better to curse him out on the
phone and proceed to go on a rant on the internet about morals to a
bunch of pinball enthusiasts--that is by all means your right to do
so. Not everyone is going to agree with you--and some may even
attempt to point out where you might be wrong or offer a different
perspective, and that is their right.
All this talk about verbal agreements you go on about, is it legally
binding? Maybe you can sue the guy for not selling the game to you?
The bottom line is: It's Craigslist, there are no rules! If you've
been a member of RGP for any length of time, you see people get burned
on CL deals all the time. It's luck of the draw. Why should this be
any different?
If you did wind up getting that game, I bet caller #1 would have been
pretty upset too...
My $0.02,
Trevor
VDOJAQ
Maybe for a 39 year old guy, I am too old fashioned in my ways. Sorry,
but I just cannot fathom the people who side with the seller on this.
I really can't believe that so many here are ok with people not being
honorable to their word or their actions. It is just considered the
way things are and nobody should be held accountable for anything. No
wonder this Country is where it is, why the economy is broke, and
99.9% of politicians are corrupt. It's because NOBODY is held
accountable. It's just the way it is....nice, real nice. You know
what...we need to grows some balls and change "just the way it is".
My Father has taught me that in business, you have to be a man of your
word if you want to succeed, prosper, and be proud of what you do. Or
do those standards not exist anymore and we are all happy with "just
the way it is"? I don't have to be happy or agree with "just the way
it is". I will argue with anyone, til I am blue in the face, that what
the seller did was wrong. I love how some want to pick apart little
pieces here and there and say "see, here, you did or didn't do this or
that , and that is why you didn't get the machine" No, I didn't get
the machine because the seller did not honor the deal he made, period.
It is that simple. Nothing more, nothing less. I find it hilarious
that some feel I should be passified by telling me "that's just the
way it is". Nope , sorry , don't buy into that theory. There are still
good , trustworthy people out there and those are who I prefer to deal
with. Yes , there is some of those people on C.L. and RGP too. And
anyone who has bought or sold to or from me will tell you the same.
But wait.....one more thing to ad. If the seller had said, I have a
guy that wants to look at it tomorrow, if he does not take it, you can
look at it next, then this never happens. But no, the seller said he
had someone who called earlier and wanted to look at it tomorrow, so
it's still availible. What on Earth do you people think I am going to
do when I have a $300 Tee'd Off looking me in the face? Oh , ok I'll
call back? HELL NO, I said how about I just buy it tonight? Again, a
bunch of hypocrites!!
Dan Q very much
Next time, ask point blank, "I'm driving 160 miles starting right now,
will you hold it for me?"
If he says yes, then you get a call that makes you turn around, then
you can be mad.
We still wouldn't all need to hear about it, though. All it is is
whining.
Also, you never responded to my only-half-kidding post, why are you
even searching CLs 160 miles away when you live in Pinball Central? We
see a pin on our CL maybe once or twice a month if that. How would you
like it if you had to attempt a 100+ mile drive-in-order-to-get-there-
first almost every time you found a potential good deal on CL? :P
VDOJAQ
>
> - Show quoted text -
I did say that ! I explained that I am driving 160 miles, I am
leaving in 5 minutes, I will be there by 8pm, consider it sold for
your asking price , I have cash in hand, then confirmed do we have a
deal? the seller says yes, come and get it. Shit, I don't know what
more I could have done! So having been on the road for 30 minutes
already, yeah I was DAMN pissed. I probably would not have posted
about it if it was the only CL deal that went bad over the weekend,
but I had one go bad just 36 hours earlier and then that same machine,
in the same town, popped up on RGP not minutes after that seller e-
mailed me and said they had sold it otherwise.
Because both machines were Gottliebs I jokingly asked if I was being
hexed by them!
Hey man, classifieds are classifieds! I have been driving all over
hell for machines the last 6 months. I certainly did not consider
Appleton WI as someones territory for buying pinballs! And have you
seen the Chicago C.L.? We have the price police, the flagging police,
Mr.Gorgar signing backglasses, and a guy from Niles advertising
overpriced , routed crap!
Dan Q very much
>
> I did say that ! I explained that I am driving 160 miles, I am
> leaving in 5 minutes, I will be there by 8pm, consider it sold for
> your asking price , I have cash in hand, then confirmed do we have a
> deal? the seller says yes, come and get it. Shit, I don't know what
> more I could have done! So having been on the road for 30 minutes
> already, yeah I was DAMN pissed. I probably would not have posted
> about it if it was the only CL deal that went bad over the weekend,
> but I had one go bad just 36 hours earlier and then that same machine,
> in the same town, popped up on RGP not minutes after that seller e-
> mailed me and said they had sold it otherwise.
> Because both machines were Gottliebs I jokingly asked if I was being
> hexed by them!
>
> Hey man, classifieds are classifieds! I have been driving all over
> hell for machines the last 6 months. I certainly did not consider
> Appleton WI as someones territory for buying pinballs! And have you
> seen the Chicago C.L.? We have the price police, the flagging police,
> Mr.Gorgar signing backglasses, and a guy from Niles advertising
> overpriced , routed crap!
Okay, I didn't reread the original post, so I am sympathetic. The guy
should have told the new guy it was probably taken. Bet the new guy
offered more. It helps to vent, but this thread got out of hand. None
of my local pinball buds got the Tee'd Off, we all wonder who did.
Extra aggravating when it was a title you wanted at such a good price,
huh?
I did say my post was half kidding. Be glad you live in a metropolis,
pins are scarce up here at any price.
I do watch the Chicago CL (it's a laff riot), but I have an excuse: I
have only bought 4 pins in over 2 years off our local CL, they just
don't show up here much.
But of course, being metro, you have more competition for those
relatively plentiful pins. I guess it evens out...
I did manage to somehow beat everyone else to a HUO Demo Man from
Chicago's CL by being "first in line", these folks were honorable and
even waited a couple days for me to get down, although the price went
up in the meantime due to the clamor. Still a sweet deal though. The
wife was a buyer for Williams back in the day.
Extrapolating the fact that you got hosed on a pinball deal to
condemning the whole country's lack of honor was a stretch.
VDOJAQ
>
> - Show quoted text -
"Extrapolating the fact that you got hosed on a pinball deal to
condemning the whole country's lack of honor was a stretch."
I agree it's a stretch, but in the end result is not too far off
base.
I have tried a WTB Gottlieb pinballs , System 80 & up , on Chicago
C.L. , it gets flagged within minutes.
pinbell
AND YOUR SIGNATURE", & "BE A MAN OF YOUR WORD"!!!
VDOJAQ
> The only advise my dad ever gave me was" BE CAREFULL WITH YOUR PETER
> AND YOUR SIGNATURE", & "BE A MAN OF YOUR WORD"!!!
That's good advice!!!
Ron Lyons
>
> - Show quoted text -
Just a little advice, some of us have been toying with you a bit on
this thread, because you're easily agitated. The whole country isn't
going to hell, you're not the last moral person left alive, and you
take things and yourself a bit too seriously. Lighten up a little.
Go play some pinball, take some deep breaths.... and maybe, mayyyybe
consider laughing at yourself a little bit.
Better luck next time!
Ron
David B.
was meant to happen, it would have. And if not, so be it.
Ron Lyons
> Here's how I handle these things. I hand it over to providence. If it
> was meant to happen, it would have. And if not, so be it.
That's a good way to view it.
The way I handle things like this is, ultimately, it's out of your
control. He did everything he could to get the game and couldn't...
and after that, if you miss out, oh well that's all you can do it's
out of your hands, no use worrying about it anymore. Time to find the
next one!
We've all got wayyyy too many things to worry about, to have to
additionally worry about things we can't control.
Ron
VDOJAQ
> On Jan 17, 11:43 pm,VDOJAQ<vdo...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 17, 10:34 pm, Dan Q very much <dque...@new.rr.com> wrote:
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Actually, because I was off yesterday, and doing computer work all
day, I was "purposely" agitated, I was seeing how far you guys would
keep coming back at me. C,mon, I kept slipping in pinball names where
I could.. twilight zone...and so on. LOL , back at ya!
Like I said, I was only mad at one person. Today, everything is good,
the wife "helped" ease all tension last night!
seymour.shabow
>
> Actually, because I was off yesterday, and doing computer work all
> day, I was "purposely" agitated, I was seeing how far you guys would
> keep coming back at me. C,mon, I kept slipping in pinball names where
> I could.. twilight zone...and so on. LOL , back at ya!
>
Interesting, so how much of the entire set of posts is bullshit? Were
you ever actually agitated?
Ron Lyons
wrote:
Comeon Seymour, he learned his lesson. Let him keep a little dignity,
we're all friends here :)
Ron
VDOJAQ
wrote:
No, no, I was completely pissed at the seller , and I stand by
everything I posted here. However, I was stretching EVERY example I
could to make simple points, and threw in pinball names whenever I
could. On a serious note, I just feel that people(both buyers &
sellers) need to be more accountable for there actions or words. That
was my original point all along. As soon as someone threw out the
being a bitch part, I figured I would drag this as long as I could.
VDOJAQ
Yes, all friends, but lets not start again, I have have no problem
with my dignity.
Jeff Rivera (jar155)
I see that everybody is cooling down, and that's great. I've had this
happen to me, but it's hard for me to get too riled up about it. I did
even post an angry post on RGP, but after hearing more sides of the
story (particularly from the buyer), I realized it just wasn't worth
getting too mad about. Lots of times people selling these machines
just want them gone and they're treating it like a yard sale. They
don't consider anything a deal until the money is in their hands,
despite what others have said to them. I've been left with "solid
deals" pending for weeks or even months before because the buyer just
wouldn't show up and I've turned away people during the waiting
period.
Now, the seller should have called anybody with pending offers to warn
them that someone closer was coming with money in hand. That would
have at least given the buyer that's being left out a chance to
reaffirm their intent to buy the machine. But in the end, we're going
to have this happen to us repeatedly. It's best to just chalk it up to
another deal that got away and keep scouring the listings. In pinball
you typically win some and then you lose many more. ;)